BradinAsia

remember 25% of thai GDP is tourism, if i were in that situation i would under report crime and danger, everything from road accidents, dangerous bus, gun violence , street crime is all under reported to keep those tourist dollar,euro,rublesand now yuan coming. chinese have been in for a surprise no crime in china lots of it here.that why they have been staying norfth lot less crime .

Many of the danger warnings cited in the posts above sound more like the U.S. than Thailand.

Couldn't resist just a little USA bashing huh?

To your comment, I'd suggest you refer to the link in my post #53 which indicates a Brit traveling or living in your beloved Thailand is 15x more likely to die than a Brit in the USA.

Other than the US bash, the rest of your post was pretty spot on...

Hehehe... it's not U.S. bashing. And I saw your post #53.

Just wondering why folks from the most powerful country in the world (my country, by the way) need to be so defensive?

I'm not a U.S.-basher. I'm a basher of all the blatant, rampant xenophobia and narrow-mindedness on TV.

That probably doesn't apply to you, so please ignore...

remember 25% of thai GDP is tourism, if i were in that situation i would under report crime and danger, everything from road accidents, dangerous bus, gun violence , street crime is all under reported to keep those tourist dollar,euro,rublesand now yuan coming. chinese have been in for a surprise no crime in china lots of it here.that why they have been staying norfth lot less crime .

Many of the danger warnings cited in the posts above sound more like the U.S. than Thailand.

When preparing to visit Thailand, it's best to consider that there are two different Thailands in the one country.

The one Thailand appeals mostly to sex tourists. It attracts riff-raff from around the world. This Thailand comprises many of the well-known (but unseemly) tourist areas of Pattaya, Phuket and some areas of Bangkok. The advantages of visiting this Thailand is you don't need to learn the language. The down side -- you will usually pay 2-5 times as much for accommodations and food. You will also incur a much higher risk of being scalped by the scammers who congregate in these areas to prey on tourists. You will also miss out on the beauty of the Real Thailand.

The other Thailand (the Real Thailand) is an awesome place.

To get maximum enjoyment from your visit to the real Thailand, get online and learn at least a few dozen simple everyday expression in Thai. It will help a lot. Also, make sure to leave your condescending prejudices at home. It also helps to smile a lot. This is Asia, it's centuries old traditions and custom are very different from the West. With these ideas in mind, travel all over the country (except the far south) and you'll usually be treated with genuine politeness, warm kindness and respect.

Personally, I'd recommend visiting the old city (downtown area) of Chiang Mai. A marvelous place, full of ancient history, rich culture, modern infrastructure and all sorts of other enchantments. After 26+ years in Asia, living in many places in many countries, I chose Chiang Mai for my retirement home. Now, living here, I like it much better than anyplace I've ever lived in my life.

What was your friends reaction to you telling him the reason you were leaving early?

He just accepted it.I didn't tell him I was leaving because of the way he treats his wife.Just told him that I had to work.

Maybe if you told him the real reason for you leaving he would have been able to give you the reasons for him treating his

wife the way he did.

Instead you lied to him so you could leave early and then post on an open internet forum about his behavior, my opinion for

what it's worth is you are no better than him, you are supposed to be a friend and you do this he is better off without you.

Got to agree with this post.

There maybe some reasons why he treats her like this, not that I'm saying I condone it but why didn't you jokingly ask why or mention you don't get this sort of service or something like that.

And then to leave and post your experience on an internet forum seems a bit cowardly. My wife is young and educated so I'm lucky I guess but there are times I have to ask for help cleaning up the house. If you visited us, would you then post a story here of 'the dumb farang that has to ask his Thai wife for help cleaning the house'?

What a ridiculous post.

Oh dear, another White Knight in defense of all the "suppressed women" in the world.

Ever thought about, that the guy may do much more for his woman than getting a beer from the fridge?

What an immature comment.

When I was in my early 20s, living in Japan married to a Japanese wife,

like an immature boy I would ask my wife to wait on me (like a maid).

She did what I asked because of the way she was raised, but problem

was I was asking her to do these things purely for my ego.

I wanted to show that I could have her at my beck & call, like a servant.

How immature and childish I was at the time. Embarrassing to even think

about it now, 50 years later.

His name was Guenther...the guy was 70, for f sake. It was his time to go anyway. I wouldn't like Udon Thani filled with walking corpses of my fellow Austrian country men anyways, or would you?

It might sound a little harsh, I know. But 70? Come on?

He probably is reborn already as a Thai girl, who will become a notorious Bargirl, to take revenge on all western men, or that's at least what I pray for (secretly), when my wife drags me into the village temple.

So its ok to kill somebody when he is 70+?

We should talk about your Posting again in 36 years when you are 70 old!

The life expectancy, is about 77 years for men in the moment in Austria so you would like to see a lot of people better dead than lively!

TING TONG !

It's not ok to kill at all. But I have to admit that I prefer a 70 year old, single old fart, waiting to be dead in Thailand, to pass away more than, a young family father who is still having half of his life in front of him, or for that matter anyone who is under forty, boy or girl.

And your life expectansy? Most people are just alive anyway waiting to be dead, instaed of living their lifes to the fullest. By the time I get 70, which I and everyone who knows me doubts sincerely, my kids are grown, my wife has 2-3 gigs, and I hope she will have them. And I'm off being a naughty old guy, going for the BOOM Leaving Las Vegas Style. And if I won't die out there going down in a fury blaze of fire, I'd actually prefer that my wife would kill me. Better than sitting and lying around somewhere, being someones pain in the a-ss, waiting to be dead. It's not how long you live, BUT HOW YOU LIVE.

36 years from now? I don't even know where I'd be a couple of years from now. Maybe I'd be in Thailand, maybe I'd be in Austria, or maybe I'd be in Amsterdam dying from a fatal heart attack due to drugs, alcohol, and Viagra under a prostitute. I find the the latter thought actually quite appealing, but I'd rather wait my kids are grown up first.

I wonder why most of you guys still don't get it? Thai women marry elderly western men only for 2 reasons.

1.) The old guys got more money, because younger guys are still working, and haven't safed up much money yet, and are still out there enjoying their lifes, making mistakes. At least that's what the Thai women think, and they are not so wrong about that.

2.) The old guy dies faster, or quicker for that matter, and she would then inherit what he left and go look for a younger guy. Or for another asset (Falang) The older the better is what they say. "Old man big money, die quickly"

The Thai man understands that. Why do westerners have such difficulty?

And that brings me back to Guenther. He was 70. He decided to spent the remaining years he had in Thailand. He went to a less fortunate place on earth, so he could get served his coffee, had his laundry made, believed he was the "Tirak" and allowed and accepted to be walked down the road like a dog. It is out of the question if he got killed or not. He's dead . Died in Thailand at the age of 70. Fair enough. And on top of that he left money for less fortunate people like his Thai girlfriend.

In my POV Thailand is no country for old western men. Thais are tough. And if they wouldn't allow their women to pamper elderly rich westerners, walking them down the road, doing every little deed for them, because they can't even read the simplest road sign, then a lot of Falangs wouldn't stand a week in Thailand. But the Thais tolerate that. And the westerners do what? They always consider foul play at first.

Pfff....give me a brake. We are the outsiders in Thailand, and the Thais make that crystal clear. It can't get any clearer than that.

People live, and people die. Better a 70 year old, than a young guy. At the end the old have to make space for the young. It's just the way things are. One way, or another. And one day, it will be my turn, and yours, too. Your life expectansy diagnostic analyses won't help you there.

I understand you must think that I'm completely TING TONG. I probably am.

But at least I'm free, without any expectations for, or from me to someone else. And Guenther would have agreed with me. Because he must have known that his time was near.

Ask yourself. How long do you want to live? And then ask yourself why.

And a big applause for Guenther. I believe he lived a wonderful and long live, giving his last breath to the LOS.

Best Regards

Mr. TING TONG

I nominate this post for the Rubbish Rant Award.

Every society has it's own problems.

Look at any country -- America, Sweden, Germany, Italy, anywhere. They all have problems.

If you read the local news in America, you will most likely become nauseated by all muggings,

kidnapping, incest, sexual abuse, police corruption, police brutality, etc, etc.

Every country has problems simply because they are all comprised of human beings, and thus

imperfect, fallible, and often prone to savage behavior.

The things you see in Thailand -- it's not America, it's not Europe -- it's a very different culture

with very different history, traditions, customs. So many farangs see it as weird, as abnormal.

In Cleveland, Ohio, 3 brothers kidnapped 3 young ladies (including a 14-yr-old and a 16-yr-old)

and held them captive for 10 years.

Tell me if you see this as more "normal" behavior that what you see in Thailand.

If we keep one thing in mind -- Humans are human everywhere -- maybe we can then begin to

see the world as it really is. Without so much bias and prejudice and xenophobia.

How sad. RIP to the Austrian.

I know many people of different nationalities who have divorced their Thai wives. In every instance it was because large sums of money were spent, overtime, without the husband understanding where it went. Their wives could not explain it adequately and usually the discussion ended in a row with the wives screeching "you farang, no understand" etc etc. These wives were not all ex bar girls. Some were well educated and had businesses or professional careers before marriage.

Money seems to lead to huge issues here and these Thai wives all reacted very quickly and badly when challenged. It seems from the OP that this lady was prone to use violence.

Before one of the nit picking members will ask you to prove the statement "in every instance"; I fully understand what you mean as well as most other normal members. Money is the root of all evil, and for sure money matters more to most Thai (Oh flip I will be asked to prove this) people because their government does not support layabouts like the western word does. I agree with you that it is not only related to bar girls; the educated ones seem to be more prone to this (Oh I have done it again) Pimay1 will have a field day with this post - knock yourself.

you are misquoting that biblical phrase is is not "Money is the Root of All Evil" it is

"The Love of Money is the Root of All Evil" and Thai people love money

Don't want to offend any Bible folks, but the love if money is

obviously NOT the root of all evil. It is so obvious that should

need no discussion.

The evil of jealousy, ignorance and xenophobia, all of which

are so common on TV, usually have no connection to money.

Lots of good advice here.

A lot of folks waste a lot of money on aircon. I notice that some of my neighbors run

the aircon all night. One of my neighbors spent 7,900 baht on electric last month. My

Electric was 2,400 and same size condo.

I found that it's very cool out on the balcony from 10 p.m. to about 7 a.m. So I open the

bedroom window, put a big fan in front of the window to draw in all that nice cool air

from outside. Very nice and cool all night.

I try not to notice all the noise from my neighbors running their aircon all night... Hehe.

Spot on Brad! You only missed out "socialise mainly with bar girls" and you've a good profile.

I share the disdain for pitiful, narrow minded folks who move to a faraway country and then spend the rest of their lives trashing the country, the people and their customs and traditions. I find them odd and unpleasant, to say the least.

But I don't agree that if someone doesn't like Thai music - or shows any other personal taste that happens not to include something of Thai origin - that makes them "rubbish".

To think that way is to me extremely narrow-minded (and illogical).

Well, we could say that rubbish is as rubbish does...

To express the idea "doesn't like" is normal and understandable. But

calling someone's music or movies "rubbish" is quite another thing.

In particular, a farang going to another country and expressing such

extreme disdain for the local culture is a rather despicable way for a

mature, civilized adult to act.

I have zero interest in football (Man Utd, Barcelona and all that), but

for me to call it rubbish would be offensive to millions of football fans.

No one forces me to watch football (thank heaven) and I doubt anyone

forces farangs to to watch Thai soap operas.

Quote:

Edit : by the way, there are more and more Thais these days (particularly in Isan because of the Laotian language's complete lack of R) who may even be educated to degree level and still have enormous difficulty in using Rs and Ls correctly. This is not to say that they don't use Rs and only use Ls, but they just keep getting it wrong and swap them around all over the place. I believe it is basically down to a chain of ineffective education both at school and at home (including the teachers, and their teachers too).

I don't quite understand all this debate about Thai people's pronunciation of Rs and Ls.

What about that large percentage of Brits who can't pronounce a final R in their own

language. Nobody seems to get upset about that.

Last year, in preparing to come back to Chiang Mai to retire, I read up on all the Immigration

info on TV about requirements and procedures. It was so complicated I nearly had apoplexy.

Maybe the retirement visa process is more difficult for a Brit, but once I arrived here I was

stunned by how quick and easy it was for me (an American) to get my retirement visa.

I'm much obliged to the expert assistance of Assist Thai Visa Service. 'Twas easy as 1-2-3.

1. ATVS made an appointment for me at the U.S. Consulate.

2. At the consulate I obtained a notarized form showing my retirement income amount.

3. ATVS took this form & my passport to Immigration. A few days later I had my passport

back with the retirement visa stamp.

For all of this I paid ATVS a fee of 5,500 baht. Plus 3,000 baht in fees for Immigration office.

Probably the best money I ever spent.

I made no visa run, nor have I ever been to the Immigration Office.

Would highly recommend Assist Thai Visa -- very knowledgeable and very professional.

Hope this is not breaking any rules. Just trying to pass on good info.

a friend of my wife (back in home country) also thai, was not a BG, but they talked and it came out that the girl had a lot of boyfriends and she deceided to move to his home country (mine) when she found the right one, meaning, the one with a good job and house ... probably, the richest she ever met lol

so no BG but opportunist anyway

Pure, blatant racism award #2.

ALL Thai girls married to 'foreigners' are 'working girls'. Sorry to break the illusion but its not that difficult to understand.

Finally, the ultimate TV xenophobe.

This is pure, blatant racism at it's finest.

If you think most foreigners meet their future wives in bars, no wonder your have

screwy assumptions.

Thais don't automatically assume that the farang's lady is a former BG. The don't

have to assume. They'll usually know at first glance if she is a former bargirl or not.

I'm not Thai but even I can easily distinguish the ex-bargirls in most cases.

and I think your delusional and it appears you know very little, if I had to put a number to it, I would say 60 to 70% of farangs have married "ex-bar girls" "cashier's in bars", "waitress'in a bar" or just use whatever symantic you want to use.

Oh and BTW how does one easily distingish an ex-bar girl...is it the secret wai they do or do they have the bar name tattooed on their bottom or the soles of their feet and does one get a receipt of proof of purchase from said bar ?

This is becoming rather comical.

I suspect that farangs who've never lived outside a tourist area may not be able to

distinguish between a bargirl and a regular Thai lady. If, however, you've lived in

non-tourist areas as long as I have, you would not have this problem.

I have never lived in tourist area in the 12 years I have been here....have in fact been very surprised when i have found out that certain young ladies, who have a good education, wai farangs and do all the things "good" Thai girls are suppose to do, are on the game or have been on the game...

so please take your all knowing generalisations and...you know the rest.

My all knowing generalizations... or yours?

Nothing worse than seeing ignorant and disrespectful people at the immigration office.

"disrespectful"... give us a break! "ignorant" ... yes, because he doesn't know.

It's just a matter of keeping the mouth shut, following instructions and wearing the appropriate clothes. Nothing at all to do with respect. I follow protocol to achieve results.

Think of that famous "The Soup Nazi" Seinfeld episode for a good approximation of the way I see it.

The way some (many) of them treat applicants is downright rude. A more arrogant bunch of people is hard to find. They have zero respect for us. To them we are basically non-human. Nothing more than a job to do, an annoyance, and irritation... in order to receive their juicy paychecks.

​I dislike visiting the Immigration office more than anything I do in Thailand. It's a necessary but humiliating task. The faster I can get it over and done with, the better.

I had to jump hoops for Philippines Immigration for many years - now I do it over here. I can't say which is worse. Over there if you're not a wearing shirt, long pants and shoes they won't let you enter - but at least they have the dress code clearly indicated at the front door.

I do have sympathy for the OP. At least the officer could have had the decency to offer a quick fix instead of wasting his time and stealing his money. She could have asked him to get a new photo next door which would have taken all of 5 minutes. Her behaviour was sadistic in nature - surely she enjoyed it.

If he was dressed inappropriately, then he should have been told at the front entrance that he was not suitably dressed... not letting him sit there for an hour knowing that he was going to be refused. Of course our "friend" at the front door is not interested in being helpful - he gets his kicks out of barking at people and being deliberately rude. (To his credit, he did send my gf home once for wearing shorts. He doesn't like girls.... of course now dozens of Russian girls are wearing short shorts in there).

She was just plain nasty and everyone on here is defending her and making fun of the OP.

Please... let's be reasonable.

The Thai immigration officer is not a baby sitter. These farangs are not elementary age children

-- they are adults who should know how to tie their shoes -- and what clothing is proper.

Have a little pity for the immigration officer.

He/she waits on these poor, dumb unwashed clods every day. Tell me how much patience you

would have in this job after encountering a thousand of these clueless hill-billies.

I think she showed a lot of restraint by giving the OP a few days extension -- gives him some time

to go attend civility classes...

If you think most foreigners meet their future wives in bars, no wonder your have

screwy assumptions.

Thais don't automatically assume that the farang's lady is a former BG. The don't

have to assume. They'll usually know at first glance if she is a former bargirl or not.

I'm not Thai but even I can easily distinguish the ex-bargirls in most cases.

and I think your delusional and it appears you know very little, if I had to put a number to it, I would say 60 to 70% of farangs have married "ex-bar girls" "cashier's in bars", "waitress'in a bar" or just use whatever symantic you want to use.

Oh and BTW how does one easily distingish an ex-bar girl...is it the secret wai they do or do they have the bar name tattooed on their bottom or the soles of their feet and does one get a receipt of proof of purchase from said bar ?

This is becoming rather comical.

I suspect that farangs who've never lived outside a tourist area may not be able to

distinguish between a bargirl and a regular Thai lady. If, however, you've lived in

non-tourist areas as long as I have, you would not have this problem.

Also, if your experience is mostly tourist/bar areas, maybe that would explain why

your sample is skewed, i.e., most farangs you know hang out in those same areas.

Very rude drinking company you had! Hope you said thank you and walked away!

Not all do, i think. But a lot of tourists are prejudiced, sadly.

It is natural that "the world" has a very dim view of Thailand and many of it's people.

It is no secret that there are around 2 million engaged in the flesh trade, no surprises there. Forget the fact that it is illegal but what the he!! when has the law stopped anyone here from doing exactly whatever they want to do.

It is illegal to gamble in the realm (with one exception) and yet gambling is an industry in Thailand.

Corruption (and lying) are a way of life and 75% of Thais (as shown in a recent poll) believe that it is OK to do so "as long as they are getting a piece of the action"

So are tourists prejudiced? perhaps! but they have good reason to be so. The facts all speak for themselves.

Finally, I would think an 'ex hooker' might make an excellent wife if she is honest' which is defined as an oxymoron in itself.

This may not be the most biased, xenophobic post ever on TV, but it surely ranks in the top 5.

Problem is -- it looks like maybe a majority on here support this kind of poppycock. Actually, I'd

be very curious to know how many do. If that's not breaking any rules.

Given the areas that tourists visit and that most foreigners meet their ladies because the ladies are also looking to meet them ,be it through the entertainment industry or on-line dating , I would say that the assumption is accurate.

It is also an assumption made by most Thais .

Are you talking about when a farang is walking down the street with a pole-dancer?

Surely, you don't believe most farangs' wives are ex-bargirls.

If you think most foreigners meet their future wives in bars, no wonder your have

screwy assumptions.

Thais don't automatically assume that the farang's lady is a former BG. The don't

have to assume. They'll usually know at first glance if she is a former bargirl or not.

I'm not Thai but even I can easily distinguish the ex-bargirls in most cases.

"And "travelling round" used in place of "travelling around" is just bad grammar."

Motorbikes need to stay in the far left and never deviate out of that little lane for them.

Speaking of crazy drivers though, I had to hit the brakes 3 times with one idiot this afternoon to get him off my tail, the first time I heard the screech of his tyres, that always makes me smile. Third time he pulled out and around as he got an eye full of my middle finger.

Earlier today another regular idiot that does the same xxxx every day behind me, he was in front this time and I saw him do it to 3 other cars, then over take 2 on a sharp bend with oncoming traffic, then a couple hundred metres later on a straight stretch pass another 2 cars with oncoming traffic. This is not a wide road.

You deliberately hit the brakes (I assume aggressively) to cause grief to the person behind you? I would consider this sort of action a classic case of road rage and at least as bad as the idiot in the OP that swerved to prevent him passing. In fact, your example of hitting the brakes to scare a motorist behind you would be classed as manslaughter or murder if you were unfortunate enough to cause a death as a result of your imbecilic actions.

Ironically you seem to think you had every right to take this action and then give the "offender" your middle finger. The mind boggles!

Reminds me of American drivers 20+ years ago. One reason I've been gone 20+ years...

An Order from the Ministry of Interior

Guidelines for determining to prohibit foreigners

who look like hippies, who enter into the Kingdom

1. Wearing sleeveless clothes without undergarments.

2. Wearing inappropriate very shorts is impolite.

3. Wearing the any kind of sandal, except, sandal is part of their culture.

4. Wearning transparent trousers is impolite.

5. Long hair is unkept and untidy.

6. Dressing improperly (look like impolite and dirty)

Immigration Officer is responsible in

examining and determining and to prohibit

these kind of foreigners or alien to enter Thailand.

Above is from photo of posted notice at entry points. But in reality it is a case of common sense.

First of all, thanks for posting this, really. This is the first time I've actually seen anything 'official' looking. You mind posting your source?

You can't have long hair or wear sandals to get a visa extension? I don't see this as being common sense at all. I'm not sure what the way you are dressed has to do with your plans in this country. I guess in Thailand it IS all about appearance. LOOKING like a good person or LOOKING like you have money is much more important that BEING a good person or actually HAVING money.

Excuse me.

It is about common sense and not imposing your scurvy, unkempt, despicable appearance on civilized folk.

How sensible is it too berate Thais for being taken aback by such uncivilized demeanor?

As I see it nobody follows any kind of sensible driving habit here.

Motorcycles

Undertaking in fast traffic

Waiting at red lights past the stop line and in the pedestrian crossing making it almost impossible for a walker to cross.

Turning left without looking right first.

Excuse me. What the he_ll is undertaking?

Is it related to what embalmers do to dead bodies?

Haven't you seen the mobile undertaking (as in dead bodies) sidecar around Pattaya?

On the road, undertaking means passing a vehicle on the inside (left in Thailand), but I suspect you knew that anyway.

Sorry, it must be a Brit term, like "traveling round" instead of "traveling around." Poor blokes...

As I see it nobody follows any kind of sensible driving habit here.

Motorcycles

Undertaking in fast traffic

Waiting at red lights past the stop line and in the pedestrian crossing making it almost impossible for a walker to cross.

Turning left without looking right first.

Excuse me. What the he_ll is undertaking?

Is it related to what embalmers do to dead bodies?

I'm honestly surprised by the responses here. I'm in no way defending the OP, but truthfully, I guess I am also very ignorant on this issue. I had no idea that someone could dicatate government policy based on 'their' subjective judgment on your clothes, or as some have said, even your attitude. If there's an official policy, that was posted in writing, I'm sure everyone would comply. If there's nothing in writing, insulting this guy because what he is wearing is not up to YOUR standards is ridiculous. Has anyone thought, that maybe what YOU think is rude or classless is not the same as what other people think? Who are you to judge someone by the clothes they choose to wear anyway? If he's clearly breaking rules, fine, no visa for him, I understand. Please show us the writing in rules. However, if there are no real rules, and you are all just judging him to your expectation of what he should be wearing (Thai or foreign, no matter), then you should be seriously ashamed of yourselves.

Have you ever seen rules of common sense and etiquette posted in any public place? Sheesh...