sleepyjohn

Transfer right sounds ok on the surface but the big question is:

Validity of the 2 30-yr renewables. These can't be registered at the Land Office. They recognize only one 30-yr term. The extensions are a private agreement between the two parties. What if the lessor dies or sells the property. I would think the personal agreement dies with him and the buyer or inheritor is under no obligation to honour a contract made with aomeone else.

I would not want to find out the hard way and personally I would not consider it anything more than a 30-yr lease which is not only a diminishing asset but is only the right to use the land, not own it.

Jonny I believe that is incorrect.

The heirs and assignees would surely be under the same obligations as the original lessor.

As far as the 30+30+30 etc, the great thing about the "transferable ownership" is that it removes all worry about this. You enjoy your land say five years....then you ask your (hopefully still) friend to renew the original agreement from that future date. Probably everything goes smoothly and you pay them handsomely in relation to their trouble. Any problems you request the transfer of ownership.

I think my question is on the deeper legal validity of this "transfer ownership" concept.

Don't forget if you end up taking the lessor to court to force that transfer they have to defend at considerable expense. IF they win they get the land in 25 years maybe! Would you spend your money like that? We all know the Thai tends to "live for today" ( I don't mean that disparagingly...I tend to envy that!)

I have in front of me the prospective lease a friend is about to use to "buy" his property.

It looks very professional, as if it were written by an Anglo-Siamese law firm, 12 pages long, and much better than two other local ones I inspected, which were only a page or two. Lots of detail and legalese.

It has the normal stuff about 30 yr with 2x 30 yr renewable.

Also right to freehold if law changes.

HERES THE CRUX

It also includes the right to require transfer of ownership at any time to anyone the lessee names.

If this holds up it would be very very attractive, and make the lease more attractive than the company route.

Any comments on it's validity? Would conditions like this amount in themselves to "ownership" which in itself is illegal?

(I might say that although I would of course listen I've decided not to trust individual lawyers' opinions on matters like this. Thai lawyers are undoubtedly "looser" in their comments. Get info from all possible sources is my motto on this).

Sorry try the other thread with the same name five minutes later!!

The Guardian Article was quite some years ago.

Since then, perhaps three years ago, an order member exposed Sangharakshita and a coterie around him as, previously at least, predatory homosexuals who abused their position. By this time Sangharakshita was quite sick, and had handed over the reins to others.

I have spoken to the most senior order members of the FWBO, who I believe are not of the same ilk, and they have accepted this as fact, and made considerable efforts to carefully deal with the problem.

They have led question and answer sessions among order members and mitras at the local centres.

The senior member I knew best said they intended to talk to S. about the facts as learned, but they were waiting for an improvement in his health.

I believe the guys running things there now really are very good.

I was involved with the FWBO for some years and on the ordination list. I eventually withdrew, and studied further alone and with monk friends, and taught meditation myself.

I believe the FWBO has a lot of good aspects....excellent meditation teaching, a structure allowing multi level study, an accessible open door.

The downside? I found Sangharakshita has a good grasp of the dharma but is unnecessarily long winded in his bookwriting. I disliked the way he was "over-revered", typical of a lot of religious groups(I might say I don't think he tried for that). Also like many religious groups things tended to become a bit dogmatic.

All in all quite a few good people, but not for me.

It's so sad how religions seem to drift away from the basic principles and tend towards dogma.

I might add I have even seen this in a Buddhist organisation I have been involved with.

As soon as you start seeing outrage or anything related to it in a religion with which you have become involved....it's time to head for the hills!

We just got back from an overnight in Pai.

Got in late yesterday and a bit tired so went straight into the Belle Villa despite 2700 baht.

We both thought it was very very good.

Rooms definitely a cut above, quite stylish. Looks a bit like a wooden hut but really OK.

TV DVD & Sounds (though slept well and quiet). Minibar & breakfast thrown in. Swimpool but not for real swimming.

The next day we checked one or two for next time and we think the Hut Ing Pai (?) about 1000 baht and the Muang Pai same price were quite good, latter has a reasonable sized swimpool...both out of town a bit and have TV. If you need the numbers I might be able to look them up.

John & Dtae

Oh here's the Hut Ing www.hutingpairesort.com

Muang Pai www.muangpai-resort.infothai.com

Sorry to point out the obvious but one solution to save money is to have a single width road -say to 2.5 metres with wider passing points say evey 100m or less.

The usual option seems to be concrete with a layer of mesh reinforcement. You can get reusable steel formwork quite easily.

The cost for this a couple of years ago from what I remember was in the region of 2000 Baht per metre, but dont quote me on this. This was on a slope and exluded any decent drainage. It was also on an island -so more expensive.

Look as the current lie of the land and how it drains and think logically about where to put the road. This is often the route of a current track but may not be. Try not to have it too steep or cambered.

Another importnat thing is maintenace-clear away all the coconuts after rainy season as they break it up as they grow. Also consider localised drainage if it is required.

Hope this helps-let me know what you get quoted.

Thankyou James

it sounds like you are down south and EVERYTHING is cheaper up up here in Chiangmai I think including construction works like this. However every bit of info helps and 2000 is another piece of the jigsaw....have you read "The Wisdom of Crowds?"

The public lane outside would be as wide as the space allows, near 4m, whilst, my private track would be single lane I think 2.5m. Traffic congestion estimate for my bit: 3 vehicles per day!!

Hi there

I might be moving to a place without a phone line.

I've been told about the Sat one 200 service at 1500baht, with an upfront extra of about 3500baht.

It's 256/128.

I couldn't get any details in a search.

Is it unlimited?

Does one get what one pays for, a download speed of 256, with Ipstar? If I knew that was what I was getting it would be enough.

thanx!

Hello all...more questions about the land I'm interested in.....

It is in two attached parcels, one of which is Nor Sor Sam Gor and the other Nor Sor Sam chuey chuey, which I understand to be just regular Nor Sor Sam.

I remember someone telling me that Nor Sor Sam was not divideable into smaller titled lots.

As it's not inconceivable I might want to lop off a corner to sell this actually would put a big spanner in the works.

Does anyone please know the truth or fallicy of this?

Are there any other disadvantages to Nor Sor Sam? (I am aware it is not so accurately surveyed).

What's it like trying to convert to Chanod?

Thankyou in advance!

Thanx again for the excellent info Chownah.

I am surprised that asphalt or "tarmac" road is cheaper actually.

I think it looks very well, better than concrete certainly, if it's edged properly, and as there shouldn't be any heavy traffic on the land itself it might be an option there.

The road outside will certainly be good solid concrete, no skimping.

Thankyou again...

The Lease term

Section 540 Civil and Commercial Code: 'The duration of a hire of immovable property cannot exceed thirty years. If it is made for a longer period, such period shall be reduced to thirty years'. The aforesaid period may be renewed, but it must not exceed thirty years from the time of renewal'. Any lease of immovable property for a longer duration than 30 years may be made by renewal of the lease contract upon its expiration.

Regardless of what others tell you, the max lease term in Thailand is 30 years (non commercial). The renewal options will merely be a contractual obligation of the lessor and thus (if enforceable and the lessor still alive) difficult to enforce in Thailand.

Thankyou for your great expertise Nadia.

I am right at the buying decision point now on a beautiful hillside outside Chiangmai, and am tending towards the lease, as at least it gives absolute security for 30 years (or a absolute as security can be in this existence).

Could one use a back to back deal where the money's paid, or even better loaned, by me, the property bought in the friend's name, with instant 30 year lease to me? The loan could be contractually repayable at any time at my request and there could even be a clause in the lease specifying payment by the lessor to the lessee for any building or improvement work done on the land....house, roads, water tanks etc.

Could one build in a "right to buy" by oneself, a company, or a friend.

To tighten things even further presumably the lease with these terms could be reissued every say five years, so that if one was going to have a problem with the lessor one would know 25 years in advance of any action they could take. The lessor would in fact be much less likely to make a problem knowing any benefit was 25 years in the future. Any failure to renew could be met with a demand for repayment of the loan.

I actually think 30 years is not long enough...if I live as long as my relatives I'll still be going strong in my eighties in 30 years. Also if one wanted to resell, then a limited time on the lease would reduce the value very considerably. Are two SEPERATE leases, one for now, the other pre-signed and also registered and starting in 30 years, possible?

I understand these might be difficult and thought consuming questions!!

I certainly don't like having to think in these suspicious ways but one is forced to here I'm afraid.

Where do you practise Nadia?

Thank you very much indeed!

If you get an actual quote for the cost per square metre for your road for concrete pavement I would appreciate letting me know since I would like to see how close (or far) I am.

Thankyou for your replies especially Chownah...very useful indeed and full of detail.

I had thought exactly the same thing about drainage.

I think the road outside the land will be concrete as per you said, and a track on the land I might use blocks as they look less, well, concretey.

I shall certainly let you know if and when this happens (I am negotiating for purchase right now), and the cost of the blocks I suspect is similar. Anyone know that?

A friend said tarmacadam would be cheap, and I was very surprised. This i would consider for on the land for the single lane track. It could probably be fairly thin as it would get little use.

Know anything about that alternative?

Thanx again for all your inputs

John

Thankyou for your suggestion about the government grant, which I'll bear in mind. We're near the end of the lane, so it probably won't pertain.

I need to do about 200m of public track, red dirt at the moment which will have to be a (narrow) two lane (4m?), probably concrete, which I think a neighbour will share with me. The red dirt is NOT satisfactory as it's on a hill and ruts easily.

That is one item.

Then there is my private road ON my land. Not sure how long it will be but very interested in the Baht/metre price for each. Single lane will do. Any experience anyone with those blocks the grass grows through? Tarmacadam?

Thankyou...

Hi there all.

I may have to lay some hundreds of metres of track/road, and would like to know if anyone's done it and the metre cost involved. I would prefer something that will last longer than the norm here.

It would be the sort of narrow track that two vehicles can just pass.

I guess the options are concrete, or those interlocking blocks....any comments on their various merits?

A 256 IP Star system will typically give a bandwidth of around 243.0 kbs and a download speed of 30.0 kbs

The 512 IP Star typically gives bandwidth of 450 to 480 kbs and a D/L speed of 64 kbs

Sorry to be thick Rimmer, but isn't a DL speed of 30kbs very slow, about the same as dialup?

Could you mean 30 kBs, the same as 240 kbs?

This is very important to me as I am considering buying land and high speed is essential.

If you are farang...........well decide which of the posts you want to bet your money on.

Some of us are farangs married to a Thai and have to make a choice between trusting the wife &Thai legislation now and in the future.

I pick the wife.

I DON'T pick the wife!

If the average reader here did they've got about a 50% chance of retaining ownership of your house, not necessarily through their wife's fault I might add. Of course you know your wife better than any of us, and good luck.

I however do tend to agree with Skip about the negativity in this thread.

I am in the situation of deciding and putting my money on the line right now...and I can't afford to throw it away.

Looking at the evidence I have decided.....

Has there been a problem yet?

I have a friend who went through developing four houses over many years, and he had great homes and made a bit of money and had no fatal hassle with any of them. I have in fact never heard of a problem with the company method.

Is there going to be a problem?

Common sense says absolutely not. All policymakers in this country, as well as people of influence on a local level, own property and land. Thaksin has had land agents scouring the country and buying a land bank I hear. So are they going to create a pullout and cut their own throats? Yeah right. The only possibility would be to scare the foreigners to get the price down whilst buying more. But legislation that would depress the market for a decade at least? Never. House prices are like traffic....you only need a few less to make a lot less traffic jams or a lot lower prices.

I might add that there's a right way to do these things.

When you have your land...be a good citizen. Pay the pooyaybahn to supply you with one or two of your requirements....he won't expect fortunes. Contribute to the new roof on the wat....a few thousand baht will be remembered and hey you're helping out as you should do. Try to buy where you have contacts and friends. Treat any staff well. Be respectful and you'll be respected.

I hope it works out for me.

QUESTION: I believe if the worst ever comes to the worst the house gets auctioned or something or a forced sale happens so actually you get your money back anyway....or is that true? Anyone can provide any info? Thanx.

Thankyou Sweetballs,

I should have looked.....

Actually I did just look and found something a bit different that looks pretty authoritative.....

http://www.thai-language.com/id/209266

I've just switched from Ji-Net DSL to CSLoxinfo DSL.

I know of two friends getting out of CSLoxinfo because of lousy speed or drops

Don't shoot the messenger, and they're not paying as much as you, but I thought I should let you know.

You all probably know the expression "som num naa" which i understand to mean something like "serves you right". Sorry i don't know the Thai spelling.

Well i'd like to know the actual meaning of the words in the expression, and also whether one can correctly use it in reference to a third party...in other words, like "serves him right"....and would it be said the same exactly.

Thanxalot John

I was reading an article in the BKK Post and I'm sure it said that there was no CGT on sharemarket (stockmarket) trades in Thailand. Is that correct?

Is this how Toxin is avoiding the tax from his sale?

I also don't agree with CGT on share sale profits.

If one should pay tax on this the fair thing would be for the tax department to pay up back when shares sell at a loss. Fat chance.

Cheap total dealing costs also keep a market efficiently priced.

I for one don't buy Canadian stock because of their 15% tax on dividends, why should I contribute personal tax to a country I don't live in? I'm already paying indirectly in the form of company tax which portion I consider a reasonable tax. The 15% is a liberty and keeps some possible investment capital out of Canada. Som nam naa. The same would apply to Thailand.

And sleepyjohn, thanks for the tip. But as for Apple's quality: I've used both mac & windows machines for years. Apple's not perfect but I definitely find macs to be much more stable & reliable than the windows computers I've worked with. Have you had a different experience?

I'm glad you have retrieved your laptop.

My iBook G3 is nearly two and a half. I have been very careful with it.

I have had two logic board failures requiring replacement, a total of 7 weeks with no iBook.

Recently the little used combo drive has failed, and a few days ago the charger packed up, the latter alone is about a 5000 baht item (generic copy $34.95). It had rarely left the house. The 24V lead is poor quality. Apple has known this for years and still supplies the same lead.

I love them when they're working but they are greedily overpriced, especially the parts.

Good luck with yours!

I wonder if this thread is not reifying truth.

In other words is it trying to concretise something inappropriately.

In other words is this thread trying to thingify the unthingifiable?

Even if you disagree you'll have to admit I've used some great words.

Had a friend take them to the UK to sell them and even there he had problems finding a place to buy them and not at what I would consider fair market value.

Baird and Co in the UK will accept any well known gold coins and return fair payment by mail promptly....I have sold Kruggerands to them before.

If you are thinking of buying a small amount of gold as a speculation don't bother, it would have to be assayed in the UK.

If it's a large amount there are traded vehicles with which you don't have to touch anything except a telephone.

If you're a doom and gloomer and want the gold under the bed for your old age perhaps the bars bought here at a spread of 1% are not a bad idea.

But of course gold might go down. Twenty something years ago it was worth the equivalent of several times what it is now.

Ask to speak to Pichak, one of the guvnors.

He's seems quite civilized.

They send big jobs to Bangkok so it takes a while.

Good Luck.

ps:Don't believe everything you read about Apple's quality.

After 3 years of dollar decline,all of a sudden Newsweek makes the declining dollar its cover story early last year,then WHAMO! the dollar reverses direction and goes the opposite way.

Coincidence?

Yes Thaistick....I had been looking at the charts last year, and fancied the $ for a rise technically, but that Newsweek cover was the last contrarian straw, and I converted my whole trading account to $ at an average of 1.895 to the £.

It's one of the best timed moves I ever made, and the £ started dropping immediately.

NEVER believe what you read in the papers....and that includes what you hear about the $ right now and also by the way gold.

Why would you take advice from Mr Buffet, decent chap though he seems, when he is short the $?

The price of the $ discounts in all known facts, and probably a few that are not public knowledge. It could go either way.

Unless you are capable of making your own analysis, a good strategy would be to spread your assets around a small group of currencies, including some emphasis on the one you spend money in.

Good Luck.