rwdrwdrwd

It sounds to me like his 'purpose of visit' is to spend time with his girlfriend.

I couldn't find much of a selection on Lazada. The majority there are flashy gamer types. JIB and Invadeit both have the Rosewill RK9000 which should suit your needs just fine.

http://www.invadeit.co.th/category/keyboards/rosewill/

Something to keep in mind though, if you're working in an office or area with other people the Cherry MX Blue switches can be quite noisy but they are generally preferred by 'typists' for their tactile and clicky feel. If you need something a bit quieter then the MX Browns are pretty good.

Thanks crabdog, that's useful - especially to find out about JIB

See a few mechanical keyboard fans here, been considering one for a while - which ones on Lazada would you recommend (ideally would like to know a good medium and high budget option)

Programming use mainly, so lots of typing - no gaming.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, one could equally interpret it as 'undecided' - the list doesn't include 'sending a business email' and I can't get on board with the idea that this activity would be considered work, so am loathe to get on board with the opinion that anything else business related not mentioned on this list must by default require a WP.

The named activities are also very highly focused around conferences, seminars, lectures, business negotiations and trade based activity, which is a big money spinner - I suspect that this list is more about removing confusion that was previously hindering the organisation of such events and Thai/Non Thai business than anything else.

Given the OP stated catagorically he intends working in Thailand can we state catagorically he needs a WP ?

But the thing is there is clarity, there is a list of occupations a foreigner cant do under any circumstances and there is a recently published list of circumstances where a WP is not needed..... couple that with the standing rules that one needs a work permit to work in Thailand which further states where one is paid or even if one gets paid has no bearing on the defintion of work

It seems to me the intent is pretty clear in my opinion of course

The other thing that needs to be addressed about not being able to get a WP for on line work ....yes one could if one set up a Thai limited company, and in fact know someone who has done exactly this and the core on line business has nothing to do with Thailand big difference between "cant" and "wont "

I honestly don't think we can categorically state that, no - we have no guarantee that what the OP personally considers to be 'work' would also be considered 'work' for the purpose of Thai legislation by a judge. It might be, but it might not.

I'm not really sure where you're going with the occupation list comment, it doesn't really cover anything pertaining to remote work that I can see - http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/labour-law/forbidden-occupations-for-foreigners-jobs.html - nor does the 'list of circumstances where a WP is not needed' cover every other possible activity. I don't think we can infer that any other activity is allowed or disallowed just because it does not appear on either list.

In regard the the WP for online income - yes by virtue of a Thai Ltd co and a lot of bureaucracy everyone 'can' get a WP, the question that remains is whether they 'need' to. I don't think anyone here can accurately determine the answer to that.

In regard to forums being 'about opinion', the reason I am arguing here because it seems that you are stating as FACT (and not as opinion) that the op would be illegal and I am questioning your ability to do so with the available information:

Simple. It's illegal.

• You cannot work in Thailand without a work permit and you cannot get a work permit for the work you describe

The OP did not describe the activity. They could be purely sending emails all day (hence the above questions), we do not know.

Given the extremely badly worded legal definition of 'work' in Thai legislation, only a judge can decide whether the OPs activity constitutes 'work' under that legislation or not, and the only true answer that the OP can be given is "It depends if a judge considers what you are doing to be 'work' under Thai law".

I understand that you are playing the wannabe/actual lawyer but this is a forum of people being asked for advice and information. Not for legal certainty. I assume that most people ask questions in the hope that the respondents have actual real life experience to pass on. Which many of us do.

You're absolutely right that my advice is opinion and that I failed to properly express that, but you fail to acknowledge the fact that I also said "If you truly want the answer then don't listen to anything posted here and go along to your local Labour Office.", which IMO indicates sufficiently that my advice was opinion.

No he didn't describe the activity but ​IMO someone employed to send emails all day is working regardless of whether some smart lawyer thinks he can contest the definition of work. You're are also right that a judge would have the final say, but that's of no help to the OP whatsoever. Work in fear of being caught and thrown in jail by a judge, or go and talk to the DOL who would be the ones putting you in front of the judge. I know which route I'd take. And have taken!

My interpretation of the OP was that they were seeking legal certainty, not opinion.

In terms of emails, I don't personally see how emailing all day is working yet emailing for 5 minutes is not, but we can only speculate as to how a judge would see it.

The big issue here is the lack of clarity and absolutes in Thai legislation, imo.

Lawyers can't answer the question either, indeed the question has been asked there many times and varying answers have been received. The only person who can answer is a judge.

Besides which, the 'Ask a Lawyer' section is hardly a buzzing hub of activity is it.

This has been asked before on two occassions and believe in both cases the lawyer was of the opinion a WP was required

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/789130-working-remotely-from-thailand-computer-security/

Can't help but laugh at how the coppers see it all as pantomime as well. The boss blatantly stood there with a smirk as he let her get in close enough for another smack during the pointing section.

Lawyers can't answer the question either, indeed the question has been asked there many times and varying answers have been received. The only person who can answer is a judge.

Besides which, the 'Ask a Lawyer' section is hardly a buzzing hub of activity is it.

I told the OP to talk to the Labour Department because they are the only authority that counts. And I'm not guessing but passing on information I've been told by the Labour Department.

A judge isn't required to throw someone out for illegal working. And as I've said to you before, if a court was involved there is no way they would come down in favour of the foreigner as the precedent would be to far reaching.

Many other people claim to have spoken to the Labour department and received conflicting advice to you - both versions of advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Pretty sure anybody arrested can deny charges and opt to go up in front of a judge, so in the case that the suspect wishes to contest the charges, a judge is required.

Your assumption regarding the decision a court would make is entirely opinion based. Still no precedents, I believe (not that they would necessarily impact future decisions anyway)

As the Labour Department would be the ones prosecuting I don't think taking their advice with a "pinch of salt" is good advice.

Agreed, if contested. If you were the OP and living in Thailand and working online for this foreign company would you honestly want to contest and face prison time?

Isn't a forum about opinion. Or does only your opinion count?

I am suggesting taking the conflicting second hand reports (including yours) from disparate DOL offices with a pinch of salt, not direct first hand interactions on a case by case basis with the DOL.

In regard to forums being 'about opinion', the reason I am arguing here because it seems that you are stating as FACT (and not as opinion) that the op would be illegal and I am questioning your ability to do so with the available information:

Simple. It's illegal.

• You cannot work in Thailand without a work permit and you cannot get a work permit for the work you describe

The OP did not describe the activity. They could be purely sending emails all day (hence the above questions), we do not know.

Given the extremely badly worded legal definition of 'work' in Thai legislation, only a judge can decide whether the OPs activity constitutes 'work' under that legislation or not, and the only true answer that the OP can be given is "It depends if a judge considers what you are doing to be 'work' under Thai law".

Guess you couldn't answer 3 then...

You're making the mistake of assuming that what the OP refers to as 'work' is definitely captured under the Thai legal definition - you cannot possibly know whether this is the case or not.

In regard to any comments from an IO pertaining to work - Immigration is not the DOL, and it is not their remit to give permission. Neither is there a legal definition of 'holiday'.

I don't understand why people try to convince other people that their random, irrelevant and arbitrary layman interpretation of the law is actually the law.

What on earth does being on 'hoilday/vacation' have to do with anything - where is the law that even treats someone differently if they are on 'holiday/vacation'?

seancbk introduced claiming to be on perpetual holiday was a way to circumvent the law.

Right, so think we're in agreement that there is no legal distinction between whether or not an activity is 'work' regardless of the length of stay and visa status of the individual in question.

Thai law simply says 'working is working' so therefore what is 'work' for someone who stays in Thailand for 5 years must logically also be 'work' for someone who stays for 5 days,

1 - If someone stays in Thailand for 5 days and spends 10 minutes a day dealing with business related emails, are they working?

2 - If someone stays in Thailand for 5 years and spends 8 hours a day dealing with business related emails, are they working?

3 - If the answers to 1 and 2 differ, why is that and upon what legal basis?

That is the whole point - unless you are employed by a Thai company and paid by them in Thailand you don't need a WP.

If you are 100% employed outside of Thailand and paid 100% outside of Thailand, you are not working here, even if living here.

Because again how can they stop you answering work emails and replying whilst on holiday? They can't.

Being paid is irrelevant. You could work for free while in Thailand but you still need the right visa and a work permit.

The OP is not someone on "holiday". He is talking about being resident here and working. Big difference.

Can you point to the legislation that treats somebody on "holiday" and somebody "resident here" differently? And the bit where the distinction is made between "replying to emails" and "updating a blog"?

Too many amateur judges on here - given the extreme lack of clarity in the Thai legal definition of 'work', nobody except a judge (a real one) can make a judgement call regarding the interpretation of it and determine what is 'working' and what is 'not working'.

Anybody else who claims with zero authority to interpret the law that is is 'illegal' or indeed 'legal' is just guessing.

I told the OP to talk to the Labour Department because they are the only authority that counts. And I'm not guessing but passing on information I've been told by the Labour Department.

A judge isn't required to throw someone out for illegal working. And as I've said to you before, if a court was involved there is no way they would come down in favour of the foreigner as the precedent would be to far reaching.

Many other people claim to have spoken to the Labour department and received conflicting advice to you - both versions of advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Pretty sure anybody arrested can deny charges and opt to go up in front of a judge, so in the case that the suspect wishes to contest the charges, a judge is required.

Your assumption regarding the decision a court would make is entirely opinion based. Still no precedents, I believe (not that they would necessarily impact future decisions anyway)

Happy for them to delve through mine, my income is not subject to tax in my home country since I'm not resident there, it's not sourced there, and it's not remitted there.

Have fun HMRC.

That is the whole point - unless you are employed by a Thai company and paid by them in Thailand you don't need a WP.

If you are 100% employed outside of Thailand and paid 100% outside of Thailand, you are not working here, even if living here.

Because again how can they stop you answering work emails and replying whilst on holiday? They can't.

Being paid is irrelevant. You could work for free while in Thailand but you still need the right visa and a work permit.

The OP is not someone on "holiday". He is talking about being resident here and working. Big difference.

Can you point to the legislation that treats somebody on "holiday" and somebody "resident here" differently? And the bit where the distinction is made between "replying to emails" and "updating a blog"?

Too many amateur judges on here - given the extreme lack of clarity in the Thai legal definition of 'work', nobody except a judge (a real one) can make a judgement call regarding the interpretation of it and determine what is 'working' and what is 'not working'.

Anybody else who claims with zero authority to interpret the law that is is 'illegal' or indeed 'legal' is just guessing.

Edit.. can't be bothered.

That is a multipurpose application form which clearly asks for the "Purpose of Current Visit"

Try applying for a tourist visa by stating the Purpose of Current Visa is work. !

People who earn income online don't generally visit Thailand for the purpose of work, since the location they are in at any given time is irrelevant to it.

^ Common sense dictates that declaration applies to physical work in the country, laborers, manual work etc as it says on the criteria for persona non grata.

'Persons not wanted in Thailand - Those who, having entered the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training'

http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

I believe accountant and lawyers are prohibited 'professions' as mentioned on the link above as are other non-manual types of work.

Doesnt it follow and common sense dictate

if a profession or job is not on the "excluded professions" list then a foreigner can undertake this work in Thailand and a work permit be had ?

Therefore every other job, profession or work activity a foreigner undertakes requires a WP to be legal ?

The language in the Visa Application form as I quoted above says that " ... in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation while in the country."

If you want to have a discussion as to what "in no case" means that 's fine but the only thing that matters is when some "competent person" has some reason to interpret that clause differently from the way you would choose to interpret it.

Please can you point me to that text on this form?

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/pdffile/visa_standard.pdf

Also what about people who use a VOA?

Silly indeed. Prior to the ban a leading Thai doctor wrote a report that referenced the ingredients of the battery in it's findings, as if users consumed the battery. I suspect the ban may be somewhat related to the Thai Tobacco Monopoly...

I used to get stuff shipped in every few months, but the last lot got confiscated

There are quite a few places that still sell supplies within Thailand, and there are numerous Thai based mail order vendors at http://www.thailandvapers.com/ - I've personally used Micky's shop with no issues at all.

In terms of legality / WP requirement, nobody can say for sure. Thai legislation prohibits 'work' but the definition of 'work' is entirely open to interpretation. There are no prior examples of people being prosecuted when operating in the manner you describe, but that does not mean it is legal.

In terms of tax, if you get paid direct to a Thai bank account and spent > 180 days in Thailand in that tax year, you will be liable to income tax in Thailand on all income. If you get paid into an account in your home country you will likely be subject to income tax there, regardless of whether you spend a day in the country.

With this in mind, Fab5BKK's advice is good - best to open an offshore personal account in Singapore and either get paid there directly, or start a BVI company with HK banking and then pay yourself dividends to the personal Singapore account. This would be 100% tax free, and so long as you can keep income there until Jan 1st, you can then bring any amount to Thailand without it being subject to Thai income tax.

@fireplay - Citibank IPB is good imo - not sure on the 100k US, have heard the same but others will know intricacies better than me.

You tell me what Thai people cant do and what you can do better than they can?

Then maybe I will choose the same career as you.

Lots of people on here saying do computer programming as other things related but from what I have seen in the 2 years of living there, Thai people can also do this.

There are very, very few strong Thai computer programmers. In my opinion this is because the Thai education system is not conducive to the qualities required for the profession. Thai companies do regularly seek western programmers, however - my recommendation of that as an option was not in order to find work as a programmer in Thailand and compete with the local 'talent', since whilst it is possible, it is also relatively badly paid.

The point of my suggestion was to get to a good enough level where you can work remotely for western companies - there are plenty of western organisations seeking senior developers on a remote basis. Easy to get 100k US a year with 10 years experience.

Problem is that you do not have 10 years experience, and to be frank, you're not displaying the necessary ability to think laterally in your responses - something that you would need to make a real go of it.

The question you need to answer is not 'what can i do to live permanently in Thailand', it is 'what do I enjoy doing that I could get so good at that I would be in demand internationally' - the next and hardest step is to get that good.

It is indeed coffee based, with some other stuff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliang

Not on the fly but close to it, good, and uses humans - http://gengo.com/

Doubt it.