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I saw it on TV with my own eyes - 4.19 million signatures, I think he even gave an exact number. Now it's 5.6 million, or maybe 5.4.

Do they actually count them? Or is it - five trucks, one truck should have about a million, and there are some in the cabin as well.

I won't be surprised if it turns out a lot less than that, but no one would care. The goal of this exercise is to create publicity, and so whatever is boldly announced is good. Real numbers don't matter.

Just like after April 2006 elections Thaksin went on national TV and announced a decisive win with 16 million, several days ahead of the EC itself. That number was flying around, while official results were never announced, and it took months before the elections were annuled, and then everyone lost interest. Later Chang Noi wrote an article on Thaksin's dubious claim.

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There were 42 million votes cast in last elections, and they've been collecting those signatures for about a month nationwide. Even five million is well short of a majority.

And about majority - someone mentioned here that PPP won the elections, so the majority of Thai voters were on their side. That is absolutely wrong. PPP won the biggest number of seats out of seven parties, gathering only about 36% of MPs. That's NOT a majority by any stretch. And, similar to Gore-Bush elections, more people actually cast votes for Democrats than for PPP on national party lists (separate from voting for a local MP).

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What next is another attempt at government overthrow, the petition is just a warm up.

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Reconciliation is dead and buried. Thaksin fan club cannot co-exist with the Thai society. They've got to go. Crashed, ignored, outlawed, outlived - whatever. They've been given plenty of chances, those who still stay are incurable. I hope Abhisit finds some less painful way to deal with them, but it is clear that they will not hold any stake in the country's future.

Nattawut announced on the stage it was 4.19 million, as MC2 said.

Still short of 20 million needed to claim the "majority".

As for disruptions to the country during elections - it's the general agreement that elections WILL disrupt the govt work, for several months.

What's worse is that after these elections to satisfy sour grape red losers and const amendments there will have to be ANOTHER election, in less than a year from now.

Get over that childish rush for a replay, elections will be there.

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And I don't see how Abhisit is going to lose. Dems might not be the biggest party, but the PTP will be well short of a majority and unable to form a working coalition. Even if the manage that, they will be restricted by coalition partners in any moves to help Thaksin. They will have to GOVERN, for once, and that's not what they are there for, and they suck at it - no leader, no economic team, no plans, no policies, just talk talk talk.

There will be elections, Ferwert, don't worry about it.

It's not a kind of thing you do on a dare. Unlike you or me, or reds, for that matter, Abhisit has a country to take care of.

Besides, don't you want consitution to be amended first? Reds don't accept the current, "junta", version, right?

Abhisit mentioned another problem - reds do no allow free political campaigning and resort to violence and intimidation of political opponents. That's not an environment conducive to free and fair elections.

Learn to behave yourselves like citizens first.

Are you suggesting the millions of people that have signed this petition do not have the intelligence...

That's bloody obvious, as far as this petition is concerned.

As for deciding who should rule them - it's not elections time now, maybe we can talk about it some other time.

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If I was a guy in charge of receiving this petition, I'd point to the rule book and say there's nothing I can do. Sorry to disappoint you folks. Maybe if you get Thaksin in jail, and he signs it himself, and includes several paragraphs showing his remorse, we can consider it again.

So, after a months of vigorous campaigning it's just one million signatures, not two, and certainly not five.

There were about 40 million votes cast in last elections.

Gives an idea of red popularity.

The idea of them being a problem for police is ludicrous.

How about 200 policemen injured when reds attacked Prem's house?

..From the discussion, however, I can glean that a great deal of the Red Shirt material is poorly reported and reported in a more negative light than the other side. This I get from the discussion of the two sides and information they are presenting--a fair amount of which isn't reported in the English press. This, as far as I know is a clear bias...

Supporting Thaksin in the name of democracy and trying to get a pardon for him are plain wrong.

It's not bias.

There are lots of other issues that have put reds permanently in "delusional" camp.

They, of course, do not see themselves as such, and so if you listen to them, mingle with them, read their news, they seem like normal, nice people who wouldn't hurt a fly, and most of the time they are.

Perhaps it's this extra familiraty that distorts some people's views. Pretty much like family members will always stand up for their own, no matter what.

To be objective means keeping distance, among other things.

..you are absolutely correct about your characterization of Fox news. But that I see. Their agenized version is blatantly apparent to me, because I come from the opposite political pursuasion. So what that tells me, is that when the news agrees with one's basic ideas, it is seen as objective and when not, it is perceived as agenized.

Is he saying that everything he agrees with is objective, and everything he doesn't agree with is "agenized"?

First, I think Fervert meant "subjective". What one sees through his own eyes is subjective.

Second, if he uses "agenized" to mean filtered, edited, washed, distorted etc, then it's a one big assumption about everyone who disagrees with him. That is not a gentleman's approach to a discussion. I hope he didn't mean that.

I suspect that many sleep in the taxi. Its a minimum wage job

They clear 500-1000 a day.

if they are selling yaabaa on the side perhaps.

The daily rent is 500-800 baht, daily gas expenses about 300 baht, and their daily income safely covers that all. There wouldn't be thousands of them if they couldn't all make a living.

Some are seasonal Isanese farmers, it's tougher for them, but many own their taxis - pay monthly bills, maintanance, repairs, insurance etc.

There was a campaign in Thaksin's days to issue motorsais with new jackets, taking them out of the control of the usual motorsai's mafia with their "entrance fees" and extortion.

No one mentioned anything about paying off the police. Services like that pay the police not to be harassed at traffic checkpoints for minor offences.

We now know that millions of Thais signed under this stupid petition. If they later realised it was not a good idea - is it a bad news?

Nation Group is a publicly traded company, they are not "agenised" propagand outlet. They have to sell the news that people would pay for.

And The Nation itself is only one of their publications, the rest are in Thai, and the majority of The Nation readership are Thais as well, and, frankly, their editors do not particularly care what we, farangs, have so say anyway.

Reds themselves complain that ALL Thai media is biased against them, that's why they feel the need for their own media outlets, like some ufologists.

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I also don't understand that "Thaksin yardstick" - everyone is measured on a Thaksin hate-love scale. I think it's a bizarre view of the world, can't think of an example, but remember that father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding? The guy who tried to explain how every word in English has Greek roots, including kimono? Everything was Greek deriviation for him. It was cute, in a senile kind of way.

Most posters on this board judge things by what they think is right and wrong, pro-democratic or anti. They simply apply these criteria to Thaksin, that's all.

I suspect that many sleep in the taxi. Its a minimum wage job

They clear 500-1000 a day.

I would genuinely be interested in knowing what version of democracy the red shirts support.

I would rather ask how red shirts reconcile their personality cult with ANY kind of democracy?

I also want to remind that Thaksin was banned from politics for a very serious offence against the same electoral democracy the red shirts are campaigning for. He has created fake parties with fake credentials and fake candidates and even went as far as to break into official election commission database and falsify official records.

Everybody must be equal before the law for ANY kind of democracy. Why do red shirts think that Thaksin deserves special treatment - i.e. not being punished for those actions?

I can't be arsed to properly organise mine random thoughts, sorry..

I hardly ever drive to Sukhumwit or, god forbid, Sathorn.

As someone mentioned, there are other 1,500 sq km that are not covered by BTS/MRT, worth visiting, too.

Someone said we should encourage people to use BTS. I disagree. I think they should start campaign to discourage its use - there are too many people there, it's always crouded and it's impossible to get a seat. Sounds illogical, but so is the argument that if we have traffic jams, we should limit use of cars.

How about - my shop gets too many customers. Maybe I should let only those with odd numbers in on M-W-F and even number on Tue-Thu-Sat?

Also - what is it with people enjoying their lives while others have to stand on a bus? Everybody should be equally poor and suffer equally.

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Bangkok has five times less road surface than comparable cities world-wide - usually it's 20%, in Bangkok it's only 4%.

There's nothing that could be done in downtown areas, but, as the city spreads out, more and more roads are built and widened to four-six lanes. It's not too bad out there, in the suburbs. There are shopping malls, too, with free parking and MacDonalds and everything.

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Ever wondered why there are so many taxis around? Are they all in the business of losing money? Do they get their taxis as gifts from Thaksin and they run them for free, living off their wives income? Paying taxi fair covers not only the car and daily gas, but also the driver and his family.

Ford diesel and 2l Civics are fastest cars in Thailand (along with new 2l Altis)

There's nothing special about Mazda 3 except looks. When I read first reviews when it came out in the US, they all said 2l engine was underpowered, and Thai journos said the same thing - engine is the worst part of that car. It would have been different if we were offered 2.3l here.

There's also 2l Mitsu, with CVT they are quite fast, but the model is really really old.

I don't know if they sell Golfs here at all. VW practically stopped functioning as a business years ago.

In everyday traffic diesel would blow away any gasoline motor, not that anyone would complain about Civic either.

I think Ford's interior is a bit utilitarian, love Civic's two-tiered instrument panel with blue lights.

There are so many Civics on the road that I don't know what is sexy about them, and 2l looks exactly the same as 1.8. Fords are not something to turn your head at, too, but still tasteful and "unusual".

Finally, with a pickup truck you'll have great many questions - 2wd, 4wd, two door, four door, 2.5l, 3l, equipment level, makes - it's a nightmare for beginners.

Here's the "news":

"..he said his pro-posed TV network would "probably" have up to 100 channels.

Samut Prakan MP Pracha Prasopdee said Thaksin might start with one channel first. It would provide programmes on Otop promotion, edu-cation and poverty eradication. Then Thaksin would expand to more chan-nels.

Foreign investors and lots of his supporters inside and outside the country were ready to join in this proj-ect, he claimed.

Pracha said he had seen Thaksin's studio in Dubai. The device included a small box worth Bt3 million to send out a TV signal.

Pracha was first quoted by the media as saying Thaksin had invested a billion baht in the project. But Pheu Thai MP and Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan, who said he would reveal the project when it was ready, denied that. He said his boss' investment was just tens of millions of baht.

Pracha said later he did not say "billion".

A local Thai-language paper said Thaksin TV project was started in December. It said those involved included former Thai Rak Thai execu-tives Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Vechayachai, Adisorn Piengket and Sutham Saengprathum. The group also included Kriangkamol Laohapairoj, Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Jakrapob Penkair and Chaturon Chaisang.

But Chaturon denied the report. He said no one had contacted him to dis-cuss the move. And even though he was due to join in the future, he is not sure if he could because was very busy nowadays.

While Jatuporn refused to talk about the project, he confirmed people in the Shinawatra Group were helping."

http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/07/30/pol...cs_30108681.php

The police chief is also the borther of the Defence Minister, who, in turn, is Anupong's protege, so removing him would have damage Abhisit's relationships with the military.

Abhisit would be a lot happier if Patcharawat is removed by NCCC instead.

Now that it looks like a sure thing, Dems can publicly clear his name to massage his bruised ego - the man's a goner anyway.

Sounds like a plausible scenario to me, but there is a lot more involved, a lot more people who don't want their names outed in connection with Sondhi shooting. Abhisit and Suthep are probably busy trying to appease everyone - Sondhi, PAD, general public, all the culprits involved, and even the opposition as they can eat them alive if they disclose some of those deals.

I, personally, have no idea if, perhaps, Abhisit should say "fuc_k them, the country deserves to know" and go public with whatever information Thanee discovered.

I undestand the plan was to provide tutorial lessons ala Siam Square schools. You don't need a teacher present for those courses, many of them are already taught via videos, you can broadcast them nationwide, no problem. Kids will study for free as opposed to paying money to watch the same video lessons at expensive schools.

There are several drawbacks, though. First, those are cramming schools, they don't have anything to do with education, they just prep students to pass very specific exams. Second, for most people self-study is not an option. Without any external pressure of tuition fees and schedules and attendance records they can't be arsed to study anything, especially kids. Another reason to go to tutorial schools is to meet friends and be part of the "in" crowd. You don't get that at home.

Those resistence groups are locally based, they have absolutely no intentions of taking on junta outside their support areas and conquering the whole country.

The real problem is that the junta is supported by a great number of people, and even more people will take the govt side if there's any foreign intervention.

I don't know what could possibly help, short of a fast and decisive regime overthrow when one morning people simply wake up to the new reality and go with the flow, as they usually do.

What about all his investments in Nicaragua and Montenegro, not to mention Africa, or even his "For Better, Shinawatra Future" foundation?

Why is his next brain fart is suddenly called a masterstroke, especially by people who know his history?

Have no idea. Make it what you want.

Also I don't think they had the actual "neither" option on the ballot, just folks who didn't choose either.

When it comes to real elections they have more choices, and also a bit of pressure to choose someone. I don't think it would increase Thaksin's share, though. I don't think any of his supporters opted out of ticking his name in this poll.

Oh, and Abhisit got nearly 20% in the Norh East, Thaksin's got 44%, and some 36% ticked "neither" there.

He's not in the majority even in his own stronghold.

However, the man has brains, money, vision and ambition ( and of course all the other adjectives.......) and if I understand correctly, this idea could possibly undermine, and perhaps become more popular than, the current mainstream TV in a relatively short time.

He is renting channels from unnamed satellite and people need a special dish to watch them, and he won't get a broadcasting license in this country.

Do you have any suggestion how he can actually make any money out of it? There are dozens of satellites and hundreds of free channels no one wants to watch already. All the good stuff, like HBO, is off limits to Thaksin.

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Oh, and Da Torpedo was aquitted only of leading an assault on ASTV. She was still found guilty of defaming Sondhi, and she still faces the pending LM trial.

So Abhisit went down from 50% in March to 30% in July. So did Obama. More importantly - did Thaksin's numbers grew in any way? Don't forget another 30% who chose "neither".

Having about 30% popularity rating when choosing between two people doesn't mean it will translate in an election result where people weigh in a lot more factors, like the quality of Thaksin's proxy party, or having to choose some party anyway.

And even if it does - 34% for PTP is way short of a "majority" they love to claim.

Hypothetically speaking, if PTP gets the same 36% as last time, it will have to drop all its pro-Thaksin's agenda to form a working coalition, just as it did last time, and when they try to push it there will be significant resistance even within the parliament, and their coalition will fall apart, assuming the smaller parties want to go through this routine again in the first place.

As a political force PTP has completely isolated itself and lost all purpose. They are just Thaksin's puppets with no credible leaders or agenda. Last time they even proposed a coalition with Dems, so desperate they have become.

Despite the latest Thaksin PR campaign, the reds are well short of a majority required to even start talking about imposing their will on the rest of the country.