antfish

Academically speaking, if the killer's account is true... It's no different than shooting someone who runs out of your gold shop or liquor store with the intent of robbing you. The amounts involved don't really matter apart from the shock value.

You are right .

furthermore i think that he probably just wanted to scare the American farang so that he pays the money he owned him for the taxi ride. But then the farang decided to attack the driver with a machete in his hand. so it looks in that short video to me.

He won't be getting a flight through ebookers.com. That's for sure.

the prosecution probably also ask credit card companies were he has an account to block the use of his credit cards.

Pentagon Papers leaker: Snowden was right to run

Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S.

By Daniel Ellsberg,

Daniel Ellsberg is the author of “Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers.” He was charged in 1971 under the Espionage Act as well as for theft and conspiracy for copying the Pentagon Papers. The trial was dismissed in 1973 after evidence of government misconduct, including illegal wiretapping, was introduced in court.

Many people compare Edward Snowden to me unfavorably for leaving the country and seeking asylum, rather than facing trial as I did. I don’t agree. The country I stayed in was a different America, a long time ago.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

One strongly suspects you would have to be European, of an older generation and well educated to fully appreciate the context of some of these statements and to understand that insults are not involved..

Correct. But then put yourself in Thai shoes, and if someone made a disrespectful poster of any (dead) member of a certain Thai family in any other country of the world to advertise a cr*p product, simply through ignorance of Thai history, what would the response be in Thailand??

Are you concerned that some Nazis might find it disrespectful if some Thai in Ubon uses a Hitler image to advertise grilled chicken that might taste cr*ppy?

or what is your analogy here?

Notice banners are not in Thai. I see clouds on the horizon.

That is the whole point of it, they are not Thai. Thai language is not their mother tongue, they have their own language. they feel colonized because in the past they weren't part of the Kingdom of Siam.

What kind of situation is this and where is this world heading on?

Just couple of days ago, there was bomb blast in India in the Buddha temple and one terror group accept responsibility.

Most of the countries on the planet - Thailand, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, the "west", Nigeria, etc. - are dealing with Muslim extremists trying to implement Islamic rule. They aren't given to reason and have no sense of humanity (after all, we "kafirs" don't surrender to the will of Allah and thus are expendable). They'll have to be defeated, appeasement won't work.

That conflict has nothing to do with religion.

Those people are simply not ethnic Thais and have another culture and had their own kingdom in the past. thats why they speak of the "Siamese colonialists"

They don't want conquer Thailand and implement Islamic rule here.

Most of the countries are being disingenuous in their claim. It will take a little bending of rules here and there and Mr. Snowden will arrive in any one of a number of countries. They simply do not want him.

I read a couple of editorials in different newspapers and the conclusion there was there is no legal workaround, no loophole that allows to bend those existing rules.

Look at an other topic in worldnews for example. How long it took for the legal system in the Kingdom of Great Britain to get rid of that Abu Qatada. The Prime Minister said that he was "delighted" at his removal and so were other officials.

In countries with a good judicial system bending the law this way is not possible.

Very distasteful, do the Thai people not know who this monster was? Have seen Nazi flags here for sale, politefully pointed out very bad!

I think the common Thai on the street thinks Hitler was a very strong "f-rang" leader in war. In Asian cultures, strong leaders are admired. I don't think most are aware of the extent of his evil actions. As is well known, the Thai educational system doesn't emphasize WW2 very much possibly because Thailand's role in it was not very flattering. I also doubt there is much education here about the specific issue of racial and industrialized GENOCIDE which is of course is needed to fully appreciate the extent of the badness of this Hitler man.

A country where the people were adequately educated about WW2 would not be subject to the Nazi and Hitler fashion incidents that predictably keep happening in our beloved Thailand.

Knowledge about "Hitler" or better the "nazi system" should not just be reduced on the industrialized mass murder. There was so much more that went wrong, was wrong and should be kept in mind and not forgotten in order not to repeat it.

To clarify with "in the states with a functional judicial system and separation of powers" i didn't mean specific the United States Of America with its president as head of states.

Maybe i should have said with "in the COUNTRIES with a functional judicial system and separation of powers ..."

like for example in those European states countries that said they could not give Snowden Aslyum because for that he must apply while being in the country. In germany the head of state for example has not such a power as the president of the USA however may have.

There is a big pro-snowden feeling in Europe, and citizens are now somewhat angry at their government because they didn't make an exemption and grant Snowden that asylum he requested. but even if their governments shared the same pro-snoden sentiments they just can't grant Snowden that Asylum and shortcut the existing laws.

Yes, good post. The point is that in more transparent countries such as in Europe, the head of state does not have such an easy power to circumvent existing domestic laws on the matter. In some banana republics in S.America, it may be more doable, but even in those cases, there may be political obstacles. And, in all cases, they will incur the wrath of the U.S. on this matter and for what? Is Snowden worth it for them? What exactly are the benefits for any country?

These issues are larger than any international law issues on asylum.

Why calling them banana republics?

The video link is not working, at least not at this time.

Let's please keep the discussion civil.

Try again, it works here for me

Link again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I#at=108

works also for me. I am in Thailand using normal internet connection without any proxies or vpn.

To clarify with "in the states with a functional judicial system and separation of powers" i didn't mean specific the United States Of America with its president as head of states.

Maybe i should have said with "in the COUNTRIES with a functional judicial system and separation of powers ..."

like for example in those European states countries that said they could not give Snowden Aslyum because for that he must apply while being in the country. In germany the head of state for example has not such a power as the president of the USA however may have.
There is a big pro-snowden feeling in Europe, and citizens are now somewhat angry at their government because they didn't make an exemption and grant Snowden that asylum he requested. but even if their governments shared the same pro-snoden sentiments they just can't grant Snowden that Asylum and shortcut the existing laws.

Jesus.. this story is ancient. The restaurant was in Ubon, and has since changed names. Even the original story in teh English tabloid was stale when it appeared.

Excuse me for not reading the past 7 pages of inevitable drivel.

On the larger topic though, there is this: (Not mine) :

-------------------

"The principal reasons why this seems bizarre can be located in western cultural prejudices and ideologies, rather than in any Thai failing or disability. A highly educated Thai once expressed surprise to me when he heard that there were no statues of Hitler in Germany. After all, China is full of Mao images, he reasoned, and Mao murdered millions of his own people, yet is still officially venerated. A more pertinent example that almost fully justifies his surprise is the statue of King Leopold in Belgium which still stands today, a man responsible for an estimated ten million deaths in the Congo, and whose massive crimes are largely unknown in the west.

Hitler (as well as the notion of 'genocide') has been the subject of systematic demonisation in the west for a variety of political reasons that exceed simply the crimes committed by his regime. His empire-building, based as it was on national supremacy and a fundamentally racist worldview, was consistent with British, European and American colonial projects, all of which involved piracy, mass-slavery and acts that would qualify today as genocide. The fact that this is not formerly acknowledged in the contemporary political culture of these latter, and yet Hitler's one-dimensional, cartoon image as a demonic and exceptional example of 'evil' is presented as popular history, and in some European countries, even prohibited from debate by law, is testimony to the meaning and application of Hitler in the west.

However appalling, the crimes of the Third Reich were not exceptional or anomalous when examined in the context of European colonial endeavour. These crimes did however mark the end of that style of colonialism in Europe, and of the ideas about race that were its foundation (except in at least some parts of the US), and as such have conveniently eclipsed comparable atrocities in the national memories of other European countries who were not on the losing side in the Second World War. So it is not surprising that a Thai, or any other non-colonising Asian, may not be as susceptible to the demonisation of Hitler, or even current ideas about racism, as we in the west are. Nazi kitsch, and the use of Hitler's image in a playful context, is as unremarkable as the use of Chinese revolutionary propaganda and pictures of Mao in theme-bars and chic souvenir shops in the west, which rarely raises an eyebrow.

To qualify this, as others have mentioned here, Thai education encourages the veneration of founding fathers and traditional institutions of power, in line with nationalist political interests. It is maybe fair to say that many Thais assume that other countries have a comparable or similar political landscape, within which a nation would naturally be reticent to demonise its own statesmen, regardless of the 'facts' of history. With the US as Thailand's principal basis for comparison, such an assumption can hardly be blamed.

Interesting thoughs, why don't give the original thinker credit?

but the last paragraph is somewhat odd. "the US as Thailand's principal basis for comparison,"???

They can change the name to Taksin,than they don't have to change the mascot.

They have Taksin noodle soup in Singapore.

Again, thanks. I was getting a little confused with refugee status versus asylum applications. It makes sense that most countries would expect you to be personally present before granting asylum.

I don't think we need to debate the issue too much. My guess is that the head of state of most countries could waive that condition, if he/she wanted to.

I think that in the states with a functional judicial system and separation of powers makes it impossible for a head of state to make decision that are contrary to the existing laws in that country.

Hopefully he was served a bacon sandwich and a beer on his flight back to Jordan courtesy of the British government.

In case you don't know: Not everyone eats pork and drinks alcohol.

wish you a blessed Ramadan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I#at=108

They should have ask him what he thinks about that the military now shots at people and kill them just because they protest against the coup and the overthrow of an elected government.

or what he thinks about of using underage kids in propaganda.

it's the education system. I don't think these people actually admire Hitler but it's possible the school history syllabus didn't cover what he did and the millions he murdered.

At least the chicken is pretty good...

I have never spoken to a Thai who was aware of the atrocities, much less much of WWII history in general. I have been told by Thai people that in high school they spent very little time studying world history, geography, and such. So, the awareness level is very low amongst the masses. Does anyone honestly think they equate the gas chambers with Hitler? Or 6 million deaths? Doubt it. It do not think this is hateful. I just think it is a sign of ignorance, and that ignorance somehow gets converted into a bizarre form of hip.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have spoken to more than a few Thais who know that part of European History.

Do you know that there were more people killed by the Nazis than the 6 million?

Just counting the 6 million is another sign of ignorance.

If one member makes the blanket statement that the citizens of one country have no rights, other members' questions as to what this opinion is based on is a valid question.

That is good to hear. i read such and similar statements so often here by certain BM. good that i am allowed to ask questions.

"So what does that have to do with what the NSA is doing?

If it is just normal, every country does it, no problem. Then why are the US after Snowden if it is no big deal?"

Because the US is too soft. China assassinates people like Snowden.

Nobody in China is walking out of high security buildings with memory sticks.

China laughs at western democracy ha ha ha.

source?

did the us nail the rat Gadaffi in the sewer pipe?

did the us nail Bin Laden?

did people jump out of windows from the twin towers?

Let's get some f****** perspective before I bang on about an emerging nation in the east.

what?

It completely disgusts me how the Thai "journalists" are explaining what happened according to what the murderer said.

It's depressing how many morons accept what they read as true.

It is according to eyewitnesses. not just the taxi driver.

Disgusting that the Thai basher doesn't take the news reports into account because it doesn't fit their fantasy.

From one American to another , if the genocide, rapes, tortures, heinous medical experiments, gassing and other horrors had happened to you and your kin , would you still NOT care? people who forget the past, are bound to repeat history.

American soldiers under the orders of Obama are still doing that sort of stuff everyday.

Explain to me why you think is it OK for Obama to do that to Muslims, but not OK for Hitler to have done that to Jews?

(I don't think it's OK for anyone to do that sort of stuff, no matter whose army the aggressors are in, or what race or religion the victims are)

In my opinion, better for us to worry about the people doing that stuff right now, rather than worry about the guys that did it 70 years ago.

We have to look at what happened 70 years ago too, keep that in mind and not repeat it. Unfortunately the is a problem with the 'not repeat it' part. people have to open their eyes here too and understand what is wrong.

I believe that version without much doubt.

machete man surely just wanted to scare this non fare paying farang. but after he continued to attacked him he finally used the weapon he had in in his hand. in the short video you can also see how machete man is still walking backwards and probably surprised by the farangs reaction to attack him.

i have seen some complete and utter <deleted> posted on this site, but this is up there with the best/worst ever !!

u believe the taxi drivers version without much doubt ??

who else (apart from the taxi driver) has said they saw this poor guy throw coffee at the driver ??

who else has said he attacked the taxi driver first ?

unless u have seen a diiferent video from me ... the American guy doesn't react until he is struck by the taxi driver !!

and even IF (and that's a big IF) he did throw coffee or water or whatever at the driver ... he still didn't deserve to die !!

Tell me why should i not believe a Thai taxi driver or Thai eyewitnesses?

well because the Thai taxi driver has just xxxxxxx killed an unarmed man with a sword would lead me to treat anything he says with a tad of suspicion !!

and u can show anywhere, where ANY eyewitnesses have said they saw the American either throwing coffee at the taxi driver or attacking him first !!

It is in the newspaper article i was quoting. eyewitnesses said that, according to the police.

And with a lot of luck he will be hung. because in jail he can still radicalize the other prisoners with his devilish talk.

HMG does not deport or agree to extradite to countries that have the death penalty for the accused. Guarantee HMG has an ageement in place with Jordon. Jordanian government had previously commuted his death sentence to life in prison. When he goes though the Jordanian retrail process and found guilty, maximum will be life imprisonment. Otherwise future suspects held in UK detention will not be deported or extradited

As i have understand it the deportation was also possible because Abu Qatada agreed to it and said he will no longer appeal against his extradition, seems he is not afraid of that what awaits him in Jordan.

""My client denied all the allegations, and he asserts that his return to Jordan was out of his own free will, in order to be with his family. The procedure was carried out well, and he received good treatment."

Speaking outside the court, Abu Qatada's father Mahmoud said: "His spirits are high and the officials are good people - they might allow him to obtain bail after a few days."

BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said Home Office officials were "incredibly relieved" after "one of the most tense weeks in the department's recent history".

"They were so concerned about the possibility that the cleric could change his mind at the last minute that they were leaving nothing to chance."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23213740

Sounds like propaganda to me, don't believe he personally had any options left open to him. If media reports are accurate, why have his wife and children declined to relocate to Jordon?

family in this context might mean father, brothers and cousins who live in Jordan.

UPDATE:

American hacked to death over Bt51

Quoting eyewitnesses, police said both men had scuffled after Pilkington threw the coffee in his paper cup at Cherdchai through the passenger side door window. Cherdchai had been yelling at the man to pay up. The suspect told police later that he took the long knife from the boot and confronted the American, but the victim attacked first.

...

The passenger accused him of rigging the meter and got out. Cherdchai said he was enraged and grabbed the machete, only with the intent to threaten him.

I believe that version without much doubt.

machete man surely just wanted to scare this non fare paying farang. but after he continued to attacked him he finally used the weapon he had in in his hand. in the short video you can also see how machete man is still walking backwards and probably surprised by the farangs reaction to attack him.

i have seen some complete and utter <deleted> posted on this site, but this is up there with the best/worst ever !!

u believe the taxi drivers version without much doubt ??

who else (apart from the taxi driver) has said they saw this poor guy throw coffee at the driver ??

who else has said he attacked the taxi driver first ?

unless u have seen a diiferent video from me ... the American guy doesn't react until he is struck by the taxi driver !!

and even IF (and that's a big IF) he did throw coffee or water or whatever at the driver ... he still didn't deserve to die !!

Tell me why should i not believe a Thai taxi driver or Thai eyewitnesses?