chownah

Anyway a couple of minor points

Vietnam in the south fell in April 1975 - about a week after the KR took power in Cambodia.

Thanks for the correction.

Chownah

Of course I suppose that sometimes it is best to throw out a constitution and write a new one but I think a case can be made that it is preferable when possible to amend an existing consitution.....the reason being that when students (who will in the future become the leaders and the voters) study the constitution it becomes much easier for them to see what the old text was and what it was replaced with thus giving them some perspective on why the change was made and how the change was either an improvement or not. Also it helps to create a sense of continuity of gov't which might help people strive for continuity in gov't in the future and thus help create stability.

Chownah

It could be that history repeats itself - 2006 was 1973's triumph of democracy, now comes 1976. Samak and Chalerm are in place and country folks are ready to come to Bangkok to confront the middle classes in the name of their saviour.

While this might seem like an appropriate analogy when viewed superficially, I think that it is better to take a deeper look at what the political climate was like in 1976.

Laos in 1976 had a communist gov't created by the Pathet Lao who worked in opposition to the US and its influence to gain control of the gov't in 1975.

Cambodia in 1976 had a communist gov't called the Khmer Rouge which was running amok and slaughtering countless of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens and foreigners living there too (specifically Vietnamese but other too I think).

Vietnam in July of 1976 saw the collapse of the gov't of the South and its consolidation with the communist gov't of the north as a result of the defeat of US forces and their evacuation of the country.

So.....Thailand 1976.....the communist party was gaining popularity...fighting between communists and gov't forces was happening in isolated rural places.....within the last year it saw its two neighbors to the east defeat the US and install communist governments (and in the case of Cambodia a particularly nasty one) and in early 1976 (April I think) their major/only ally (the US) in thwarting the spread of what was seen as imperialistic communism (probably a good evaluation at the time) lost its long struggle to thwart the spread of communism in South Vietnam and completely withdraw from the arena...

I dare say that the idea that a communist insurgency might wash over the country and obliterate Thai society was not considered to be extreme at the time...infact it was a real threat.......in October the students who were seen (and probably rightly so) as left wing communist sympathizers or actually communists....were massacred...and thier leaders exiled.

Now....compare this to what is happening today.....a bunch of rich Thai politicos are fighting over gov't funds and power.......hardly seems like the situation in 1976 is analgous today... does it?

Chownah

P.S. I want to be very very very clear that I am in no way tring to make excuses for what was a travesty to humanity....what happened was a cold blooded massacre of human beings who were exercising their inate rights....there is no excuse for what happend....I'm only trying to help people understand how it came about and that really the situation then is not so similar to what is happening now.

Chownah

that has weaseled its way in to power with 35% of the vote.

"Weaseled its way in to power".........what the heck are you talking about.....there was an election....it was administered under the consitution that the military dictatorship instituted as the law of the land....the result which came about was the PPP forming a coalition gov't.....this is an example of the fundamental working of a parliamentary sytem..............what are you one about?.....you need to spend some time on the internet reading about the method of parliamentary gov't......

Chownah

Any future PAD meet will surely be a "flash-point" for violence, dissent and insurgency

Bulmercke,

Are you sure you want to include "insurgency" here....the definition I have found for insurgency indicate:

------------

an organized rebellion aimed at overthrowing a constituted government through the use of subversion and armed conflict

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

-------------

Are you saying that any future PAD meeting will result in an organized rebellion aimed at overthrowing a constituted government through the use of subversion and armed conflict? You use the term "flash-point" which usually means an immediate and drastic change so it seems like after the next PAD meeting you think this type of rebellion will occur....that's why I'm asking if you meant this because I think you really don't mean that....maybe I'm wrong.

Chownah

form working groups to scrutinise malfeasance, including intimidation and unfair transfers of civil officials

This is a good thing for PAD to do and if they actually work to this end I support that work....but I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to PAD's agenda...it seems to be filled with wonderful ideas but the implementation of these ideas seems to sometimes/often/usually fall short or wide of the rhetoric......PAD is not alone in Thai politics when it comes to incongruence between goals and actions...it is all too common pretty much across the board.

Chownah

The PAD said the country had returned to a "lawless era", which might trigger another military coup

Seems to me that the country still has laws and the present gov't seems to be following the laws so far....and....as far as I know they haven't even changed any of the laws yet. The constitution was changed (for the better or worse depending on point of view) by the military dictatorship which has evidentally receded to watch from the sidelines for now so the present gov't can't be blamed for the constitution...which is the foundation for the laws. No one is claiming that any of the laws are unconstitutional that I know of so whether the existing laws are constitutionally valid does not seem to be an issue.

So...there you have it....a gov't which so far seems to be following the laws which seem to be accepted as being constitutionally valid and a constitution which though not liked by all is not being questioned by PAD and which certainly can not be attributed to the present gov't.....so.....where does the charge that the country has "returned to lawlessness" come form.....seems to me to be misinformation.....seems like PAD doesn't like the transfer of personel and to bolster their arguement they have created the ficticious arguement that the gov't is a "lawless" one......

Question 1:....on this issue is the PAD using the same tactics that the right wing media used before the massacre of 1976?.....the tactics being to demonize the opposition using specious arguements?

Question 2: PAD supporters seemed to welcome the military coup that led to dictatorship before (maybe I am wrong but I think I rememer them cheering the massacre coup)....the quip I reproduced above seems to be a warning that some alleged "lawlessness" might trigger a coup......do the leaders of PAD want to avoid another military coup so they are warning in an attempt to avoid one...or are they threatening to disrupt the social order so that a condition of lawlessness (of their making) will bring on another military dictatorship....in effect are they cheering the massacre coup?

Chownah

snipped

snipped...nevermind...I might address this if it gets worse.

It's a bit interesting that I haven't heard Gen. Sonthi weighing in on how many his boys killed in 1976 and 1992? He's awfully quiet on that one!

Yeah...I've been looking around and found this (a short excerpt):

------------

http://www.2519.net/newweb/doc/englisharticle/we.doc

"Meanwhile military propaganda had dehumanized the radical students, labeling them ‘scum of the earth’ (nak phaendin), the enemy of the “Nation, Religion and the Monarchy”, or lackeys of communist aliens (Vietnam in particular). A right-wing monk asserted that killing of leftists was not a religious sin since it killed the Evil One (Mara) (Keyes 1978:153)."

--------------

No mention of Samak or Sonthi. No one calling for killing although the monk's assertions are certainly borderline calling for it....all of this sort of propoganda of course would tend to justify violent means.

Another link which I think is really good to describe how Thailand got to the point where a brutally violent massacre happened is:

http://www.2519.net/newweb/doc/englisharticle/clean.doc

Chownah

It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...

He was a host for one of the radio stations, "Armoured car", that were used to brainwash and indoctrinate thousands if not millions of Thais into anti-communist killing frenzy that culminated in, but not limited to, events of October 6. That's cheering for massacre in my book. I'm not arguing semantics, that's all.

Since you have been unable to bring any evidence to the table about Samak's supposed "cheering for massacre"...nor any evidence for your previous cliam that he "cheered the massacre" (I'm not arguing semantics either...but seems like you are changing the semantics a bit...but are you claiming both now, that he cheered for massacre before it happened and that when it happened he cheered it?)...so...I'll present some.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/...-appointed.html

From this link:

-----------------

Given the prominent linking of Samak’s name to October 6 one would seemingly think that he was some prominent leader, but he was at best a minor player in the events of October 6, 1976. The most prominent link to Samak and October 6 is this Chang Noi article from 2000:

Of these, Samak Sundaravej is one of the most prominent. Hence Acharn Ji Ungphakorn’s little exam for him. Q1: Did he back the radio station which was screaming "Kill them, kill them" on the eve of the massacre? Q2: Did he claim the Thammasat students were working for the Vietnamese communists? Q3: Did he, basically, approve? The answers to this exam are easy. Samak’s major role in these events is well-known.

COMMENT: I am not sure that Samak’s role in the “October 6 affair” is that well known. Yes, Samak was certainly on the “right” of the political perspective, but I think the claims that Giles/Ji makes seem a little of a stretch.[6]

On “backing the radio station”, was this Samak’s radio station or a Samak program? The prominent radio station at the time that was attacking the students was a military radio station, the Armoured Division Radio Station, and I assume this is the radio station that Giles/Chang Noi was referring to. This was under the military’s control, not Samak’s. Now, you can rightfully criticise Samak for supporting such radio stations putting out nationalist propaganda, but then you should criticise all other members of the military-bureaucracy for supporting such a radio station. I am little bemused why Samak was singled out here.

---------------

The Acharn's questions were posed in a rhetorical manner only and they were never answered which was to be expected....notice that even in the list of rhetorical questions the Acharn did not ask if Samak himself had broadcast "kill them"....he only asked if Samak backed the station....and the author of the article claims that Samak in some unexplained way supported the station but did not control it...and that Samak's role is being exagerated by his detractors.

So...here's a bit of information about the radio station in question....evidentally it was a military radio station which Samak did not control. No one mentioned in the article is accusing Samak of broadcasting "kill them" although there is an insinuation that someone did....

Chownah

I just got back for working in the field.....an accusation that someone was complicit in the murder of demonstrating students...and then claiming to have evidence that points to this...and then continuing to make that accusation when it is clearly shown that what is claimed as evidence is in fact not in agreement with the premise...and still the accusation is maintained and no evidence is forth coming.......that kind of accusation needs to be addressed........Plus is basically accusing Samak of being complicite with acts of murder and claims to have facts which support that accusation.....this is not a matter of being pedantic...or contrarian...it is not derailing the thread...it is hard work being directed at making posters show responsibility for what they post

.......I'll repeat that.....IT IS HARD WORK BEING DIRECTED AT MAKINGPOSTERS SHOW RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT THEY POST.....something which has been sorely lacking in this the news forum......don't forget this is not the joke forum...it is not the slander or inuendo forum.....or maybe it is and I'm mistaken about this.

Chownah

Oh, what a shame. I guess he'll just have to invite Lydia for a "game of golf" at his safehouse and encourage Pokemon to go get her hair done, while he unsheaths his mashie niblick for a quick round. And just hope Sonny Jim doesn't get jealous of Paw getting his club and balls wiped down by the "pretty singer" he used to date.

Not sure that Oak ever dated Lydia, AFAIK never did, besides which even if he did, I think some of the members of the subforum about alternative lifestyles are well aware of the concept of a 'beard'

Dad has tapped more actresses and models than I think just about any other statesman in Thailand; another round with this small yet sweet singer doesn't seem too unreasonable.

So explain the concept of 'beard'.

chownah

It seems the answer is not in whitewashing meat eating as innocent (it happens quite often), it's in doing the best you can in your situation.

The answer is to understand what the Buddha taught. He did not teach anyone to stop eating meat or fish. The only Buddhists in the Tipitaka who were vegetarian were Devadata and his followers.

And now only nutty Buddhist cults like Bodhilak and his followers are vegetarian. Perhaps we coudl say unless one has some strong medical reason - like a rare disease- being vege is almost a sign of mental disorder.

Actually there are alot of Buddhists who are vegetarian. I was vegetarian for many years and found it to be a perfectly good way to be....If my wife was vegetarian I probalby would be too since she insists on doing the cooking.

chownah

".. stir up hatred against Thammasat University students .." who subsequently were massacred in cold blood, in broad daylight by Samak's listeners.

If that is not cheering, than what is? Dancing with pom poms.

What you've got is a short quip from WIKIPEDIA.....we have not idea specifically what "stir up hatred" means or what Samak allegedly said in this regard and we have really no idea what agenda the author of the quip might have.

I'll repeat myself here as it seems that you didn't read this the first time around as it directly addresses what you have posted here:

Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.

You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.

I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.

Chownah

Why do you insist on going way off topic with your fixation on samak and his cheering ? It has really nothing to do with this topic and certainly not worth the stubborn diversion you have engaged in.

I'll try and make it simple... and I would ask that you open your mind just a little before responding. Cheering means "to encourage with shouts". It doesn't necessarily need to have a positive, joyous or pom pom clad meaning.

Now, i'll let you do the next bit. Try and fit this definition with the reports of what samak was doing at the time. If you have an open mind (which you have assured everyone you do have ), you will find that this definition fits!

If you can't or won't get it to fit.... well.... please just forget about it then, and put it down as a misunderstanding or a mental block or something.... AND MOVE ON.

Finally, at least consider from the angle of how your post has relevance to the topic, keeping in mind you initiated this diversion and have kept it going with your closed, defensive fixation.

I am not going off topic here....I am replying to a Plus's visious accusation that Samak cheered the massacre.....when pressed for his evidence of this he quoted a Wikipedia article...I examined the article and some associated Wikipedia links and discovered that there was nothing at Wikipedia at his reference or to closely related links that indicated that Samak had cheered the massacre...I pointed out that "Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre...." and that "Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination."

It's just that simple....Plus introduced this topic by making his accusation that Samak cheered the massacre....and even now he maintains this position and does so without bringing any evidence to support it....he talks as if it was fact and if it is fact then I want to see the evidence. Personally I think it is opinion and Plus is not able to tell the difference between fact and opinion in this matter. I have yet to see any evidence to indicate that Samak cheered the massacre...none...zip...nada....I'm perfectly willing to accept such evidence but so far none has been brought forward by anyone. It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...no one seems to have any evidence...and any evidence that I have seen does not come with an explanation of the bias of the author which is a CRUCIAL matter when discussing political happenings in Thailand.

Maybe you take it lightly that someone is accused of cheering wholesale slaughter of demonstrating students...I don't know...I don't take such accusations lightly.....if anyone claims such a thing openly as being fact I will challenge them to show some evidence.....which is what I did....and no evidence has been forthcoming....so far the evidence only supports that Samak supported the right wing political movement...no evidence has been brought forward that indicates that he cheered murder.

Just wondering about relevance to the topic...if this topic is irrelevant then please ask Plus why he brought it up in the first place.

Chownah

I don't think comments on Man City performance on the field belong to this thread.

then use the report button

chownah

".. stir up hatred against Thammasat University students .." who subsequently were massacred in cold blood, in broad daylight by Samak's listeners.

If that is not cheering, than what is? Dancing with pom poms.

What you've got is a short quip from WIKIPEDIA.....we have not idea specifically what "stir up hatred" means or what Samak allegedly said in this regard and we have really no idea what agenda the author of the quip might have.

I'll repeat myself here as it seems that you didn't read this the first time around as it directly addresses what you have posted here:

Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.

You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.

I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.

Chownah

Salinity, well, that's a curve ball. Prove where it is really a problem in Thailand now. I say that because I come from an area that is so called devistated by salinity in southern Australia. The only thing is, agriculture continues. It may be an issue. But farmers are not really affected. It can be seen in small areas, but the reality is the arguement of salinity is a greater one of academics rather than the man on the land. I just don't believe they have proven ANY form of an arguement strong enough to force a project with great human benefit to stop because of their mention of salinity. PS. the best Jasmine rice in the world comes from Surin Province where "saline soils" are a major component of aiding the creation of the magnificent arromatics of Jasmine.

I'm not taking sides in this issue since I don't have enough knowledge to make a determination.....but just so people understand the articles assertions, here's a part of their remarks on salinity:

"Salinity constraints in Isaan were identified early on. The reconnaissance survey on the Chi-Mun basin carried out by the US Bureau of Reclamation in 1965 acknowledged that salinity problems would doom the project "to eventual failure without adequate drainage facilities, which in the area may not be financially feasible" (USBR 1965). The KCM project would prove this prediction true and serves here as a reminder of how the development and spread of salinity impacts on and interferes with rural production and livelihoods. With the construction of the Rasi Salai the balance of seasonal distribution of saline waters in the Mun river was affected, with closed gates storing (saline) dry season flows, which were subsequently planned for irrigation water use through pump irrigation. With saline waters accumulating in the storage facility and used for irrigation, salinization was introduced to highland paddy fields, which in turn forced farmers to increasingly give up dry season cultivation, the very reason why the storage was built in the first place. In addition, water tables raised by the impounding of water by the weirs have come close to the surface and fuelled capillary rises and subsequent salinization of soil surface. A farmer was reported to say that “We [the farmers] can see the muddy salt dust on the ground, and in the dry years, our rice seedlings die completely. We have rapidly become poor during these years, and have to buy rice to eat every year. We are no longer real farmers” (Sretthachau et al. 2000)."

It is true that some crops can tolerate a certain degree of salinity but there is a limit beyond which they will not fluorish...or even survive. Again....I'm not agreeing or disagreeing....My view is that if the US Bureau or Reclamation says that drainage is necessary then I take this recommendation seriously because almost assuredly they are not pressured unduly by Thai politics and as far as I know they do have a good track record and are capable of performing a valid analysis and recommendation...but again I have not seen their report on this issue so I can not really agree or disagree with it....also I would point out that the US Bureau of Reclamation's comments were addressed to the Chi-Mun basin project and not this larger one but my view is that from the little I know the presence of salt as a problem in agriculture is not limited to that basin so building drainage facilites in a wider project should be a high priority item for study since if they are needed and not provided the result might be increased salinity year on year leading to loss of crop viability....as a possibility.

Chownah

What would be effects on the Mekong itself and the communities further downstream in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam that depend on the river?

I know it's the dry season but the last time I was in Vientiane the river level was very low, with sandbanks in the middle.

I haven't read the entire study but they did mention that water would only be withdrawn when there was adequate flow...and that water would not be withdrawn during the dry season which is when it would be needed the most...and...that there is not enough storage to withdraw in the rainy season and then hold over for the dry season....I don't know if they meant that there is not enough existing storage or if the plan did not call out for enough stoage to be built or if it would be almost impossible to build enough storage or if it would be too expensive to build enough storage....I didn't read it all and I missed exactly what the problem was but I do remember they said that during the dry season water would not be withdrawn and that storing from the rainy season was a problem.

Chownah

The point is ALL available evidence and accounts point to Samak's cheerleading role for 1976 massacre. Wikipedia just puts it on one page, inlcuding reference sources.

"Armored car" radio is a recently added name, btw.

"You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article" - not at all. I'm simply conveying a well known fact. There's simply no other opinion on this matter, except Chownah's fantasies.

"Winning elections means nothing at all --in your philosophy-- if the "elites" are not dominating." - the elites are ALWAYS dominating. It's just the matter of which elites exactly, especially in Asia where participative democracy does not exist in any meaningful sense.

I'm not indulging in fantasies....I'm not claiming he did or did not cheer the massacre....you are the one who is making the claim and I'm asking for something that supports your accusation. You indicated the Wiki article supported your claim.......and anyone who reads it with an open mind and takes the actual meaning of the words will tell you that it does not support the accusation that Samak cheered the massacre....if you continue to insist that it does then please show me the EXACT words that indicate this....you won't...you can't...it doesn't..........so I am becoming more and more of the opinion that you have no evidence and probably have never had evidence that Samak ever cheered the massacre...it seems that in your mind you have conjured up a vision of Samak as a monster who delights in other people's deaths.....this is a very viscious accusation....you really need to come up with something to support this...so far you have nothing.

Chownah

I would like to see a comparison between the Mekhong water diversion costs (including estimated overruns) and a theoretic project where they just hire anyone in Isaan who wants to work for 200 baht per day planting trees....how many people could they hire for how many days and how many trees could they plant and how much industry could they generate processing the wood into usable articles?...I don't really know but it would be interesting to know.....

chownah

Sriracha john expressed his concern that Mingkwan might pass out in the back of a van and suffocate....so I was just trying to commiserate with him over Mingkwan's dangerous situation....sometimes if you read what I'm replying to I make more sense....sometimes not.

Chownah

so should we treat the deaths of the Southerners with equal importance, or can we laugh and joke about them, or should we just ignore as per our gracious leaders do as of now?

I'm a bit confused about the "we" part of your question...you are asking what "we" should do. Personally I seldom joke about anyones illness or death....I say seldom because perhaps I had done this in the past and so I might do it again. If I joke about someone's illness or death in public I will accept a rebuke to that point without resisting....other people have their views on this and I leave it up to them to post as they wish....but they should remember that I have the right here in this public forum to reply to their posts in any way I see fit that does not break forum rules.....its that simple really...everyone just posts how they want so long as it doesn't break forum rules and there you have it.

More specifically....if I had some information or some viewpoint that I thought would stimulate discussion in a good way concerning the South...or someone's illness...then I would post it and try to do so with respect and a helpful attitude....if I see someone posting opinion and presenting it as fact I will point out my assessment and pursue it to whatever degree seems appropriate to me so long as it doesn't break forum rules.

Chownah

Commerce Minister back to work next week

BANGKOK - Thai deputy prime minister and commerce minister Mingkwan Saengsuwan said he was ready to work next week after he collapsed while speaking at a seminar and was admitted to hospital on Monday.

“I’m sorry for causing worries. On Monday I’d fever and didn’t have breakfast and slept late. Today, I’m fine and will start working tomorrow. I will give policies to other ministers. I have had a check-up and everything is normal,” Mingkwan told reporters on Sunday after casting his ballot in a senatorial election.

Mr. Mingkwan was discharged from hospital on February 26. He had collapsed while speaking at a seminar on the government's economic policies at a hotel in Bangkok the day before. He lost consciousness and fell from the podium, pulling it down on top of his body.

His doctors said flu, lack of sleep and stress had caused Mr. Mingkwan's collapse.

Meanwhile, public health minister Chaiya Sasomsap said he had assigned

medical teams from Rajavithi hospital to offer cabinet members check-ups before the Cabinet weekly meeting on Tuesday.

Some MPs might work too hard and forget to take care of their health. When they were in good health, they could work to solve the problems of the nation, Mr. Chaiya said.

- TNA

=================================================================

Missing breakfast??? According to Samak, that sort of behavior, had Mingkwan been a Southerner in Tak Bai, could have resulted in his death in the back of a truck.

Indeed, his condition was potentially much more serious than what many people had suspected....if they had known this then perhaps they would have not treated his condition in jest.

Chownah

As previously stated, the "flu" was given as much seriousness as it deserved.

Yes, I agree completely...but on the other hand I think that suffocating in the back of a truck is much more serious than the flu and I'm glad that you pointed that out. There are many hidden dangers in life.

Chownah

Indeed, his condition was potentially much more serious than what many people had suspected....if they had known this then perhaps they would have not treated his condition in jest.

Chownah

Sorry, I don't understand; what is serious about a bit of a fainting spell probably brought on by a bit of stress and overwork preparing some bulls&*t presentation the night before?

He had a number of meetings with individual members of the press that he didn't come through for, if he isn't tough enough for the job, why not let someone who is do it?

I've got no sympathy for the guy; he is the wrong guy for the job, and he isn't even healthy enough to do the most basic job of showing up and staying on his feet. Stress is a part of everyday life as a politician.

Sriracha john expressed his concern that Mingkwan might pass out in the back of a van and suffocate....so I was just trying to commiserate with him over Mingkwan's dangerous situation....sometimes if you read what I'm replying to I make more sense....sometimes not.

Chownah

"...an ultra-right wing broadcast that constantly expounded anticommunist and pro-right propaganda. Samak used this program to stir up hatred against Thammasat University students.."

What else did you expect? A photograph of Samak dancing with pom poms?

Despite alleged heavy spin I doubt you'll find any evidence to the contrary. He was always described as a cheerleder for the right wing militias, everywhere.

Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.

You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.

I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.

Chownah

Commerce Minister back to work next week

BANGKOK - Thai deputy prime minister and commerce minister Mingkwan Saengsuwan said he was ready to work next week after he collapsed while speaking at a seminar and was admitted to hospital on Monday.

“I’m sorry for causing worries. On Monday I’d fever and didn’t have breakfast and slept late. Today, I’m fine and will start working tomorrow. I will give policies to other ministers. I have had a check-up and everything is normal,” Mingkwan told reporters on Sunday after casting his ballot in a senatorial election.

Mr. Mingkwan was discharged from hospital on February 26. He had collapsed while speaking at a seminar on the government's economic policies at a hotel in Bangkok the day before. He lost consciousness and fell from the podium, pulling it down on top of his body.

His doctors said flu, lack of sleep and stress had caused Mr. Mingkwan's collapse.

Meanwhile, public health minister Chaiya Sasomsap said he had assigned

medical teams from Rajavithi hospital to offer cabinet members check-ups before the Cabinet weekly meeting on Tuesday.

Some MPs might work too hard and forget to take care of their health. When they were in good health, they could work to solve the problems of the nation, Mr. Chaiya said.

- TNA

=================================================================

Missing breakfast??? According to Samak, that sort of behavior, had Mingkwan been a Southerner in Tak Bai, could have resulted in his death in the back of a truck.

Indeed, his condition was potentially much more serious than what many people had suspected....if they had known this then perhaps they would have not treated his condition in jest.

Chownah