JB300

The only way you can claim your travel expenses from the UK to Thailand is if either you are travel to Thailand for work/business or you have an office set up here and you are travelling between offices. If you are looking at cutting costs and worried about expenses, why travel business class? There are a few options open, but as it seems UK tax related, you need to speak to an accountant who is familiar with the tax system and loop holes in the UK. The other option is to set up an office in a tax free haven and run your accounts through that office. You will need to make sure that you don't receive any payment in the UK, Thailand, USA etc. All invoicing and payments will need to go through the office in the tax free country where you set up office. It certainly seems like a lot of expense and running around to avoid tax, so the company will need to be making considerable profits in order for this to be worth while.

I know it might not make too much difference but I was looking at it the other way round (everything grounded in the UK, but me traveling from Thailand to there for work).

I'm not too worried about costs (I already pay to fly back to the UK 2-3 times a year from Singapore), but if I could claim it as expenses against my UK Company I would happily pay the difference (it would cost me, personally, more) to travel Business class so I could do the 3-5 day trips.

Thanks to everybody that's replied on this thread, you've given me lots of things to think about

Travel back to the UK (or Africa/US) for 1-3 month contracts (making sure I spend no more than 3 months in any Tax Year in the UK

Er if your working in the UK, even for 1-3 months, you are no longer non-resident, you will pay income tax for the time you work there

Further having working as an employee through a UK based Ltd company as a British citizen even working out side the UK has its problems.

Your not going to get a proper answer on TV, talk to someone in the UK who knows UK tax law, the days of playing the games your trying to play are coming quickly to an end in the UK

I can assure you that I'm not trying to evade paying any taxes, just trying to minimize the costs of me getting from my chosen place to live to the place I need to be to work, before I left the UK I had a one-man band limited company, when I needed to travel would pay for the travel myself, claim it back from my company who would invoice the company I was working for to claim some/most of it back so I was wondering if the same was possible from Thailand.

Thanks to all of the replies here (including/especially yours as it prompted me to check how many working days I could spend in the UK and it seems the answer is 10 (http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2039224/-residents-days-uk)) I've got much more information/considerations to think through before I talk to my accountant next month.

Cheers

JB

[Edit: following on from the link above, it seems being a director of a UK company would indicate a significant tie to the UK so in the eyes of HMRC could make you a resident for tax purposes... http://www.sgllp.co.uk/client-memoranda/non-resident.htm]

I am rubber, you're glue... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%27m%20rubber%20you%27re%20glue

If you are planning to file your tax return in the UK, wouldn't it be more relevant to speak to at tax expert there, rather than getting opinions of people on a forum? Therefore if there is a problem in the future you will have someone to contact to help you.

You're absolutely right, it's just people on here seem very knowledgable & I'm sure we have some (ex)accountants who know more than my accountant so I just wanted to see if anybody else has been down this road so I can be better prepared before I speak to my accountant when I go back to UK next month.

I'm one of those lucky souls who's had to do a UK Tax return for the past 29 years, I'm sure it has something to do with me dating a Tax Inspectors daughter when I was 18

If you are aiming for less than 3 months why the Corporation Tax? Just work tax-free.

Aiming to work 6-9 months of the year, but spend less that 3 months in the UK, though now I think about it that doesn't matter to much as I'd only pay myself a nominal wage anyway, rest will be left in the Company to pay dividends/continue to pay me a salary for a few years after I fully retire (idea is to gradually wind down, I don't think I could cope with dropping from full time to zero time in one step).

Not sure about the UK but you can't do this in Australia. You can claim the equivalent of traveling from your work address to the function address.

E.g. Business is in Sydney, you live in Bangkok and you need to attend a function in Melbourne. You fly BKK-MEL but you're only eligible to claim the costs of travel from SYD-MEL.

Why would you want to though? If you're not a taxable resident in the UK then keeping all the income in your own name (as opposed to a company) will save you from paying taxes in the UK anyway.

Thanks @Wprime, I think the only expenses I'd be able to claim from the Client would be from a nominal UK address (unless it was cheaper to get there from Thailand, e.g. A piece of work in Singapore) so was looking to minimize the cost of the travel that gets me to the UK.

You have to have a company to work from as a Freelancer in the UK & I'd rather do it via my own UK limited company than an "Umbrella" company as it gives me more freedom how to do things (Plus allows me to charge UK day rates when working in Africa etc) even if getting the UK-Thailand travel paid for is a pipe dream, I'd still probably go down this route.

@Samran: Reason I don't want to set-up a company outside of the UK is because the Clients I typically work for all have their HQs there so will be looking to contract with a UK registered company.

@Mario2008: apologies, still learning my way around the forum (and Tapatalk) thanks for moving this to the correct place

I know a lot of people on here are based in Thailand but work part of the year overseas so was hoping somebody could offer some advice on the following set-up and whether it would be possible to claim the travel expenses as laid out below...

Idea is to...

1) Base myself in Thailand on an ED Visa (I'm 48 and want to do this so I can learn Thai anyway), otherwise it will be Philippines on an SRRV.

2) Set-Up a UK LTD company (I work in IT so this is pretty standard thing to do as a freelancer)

3) Travel back to the UK (or Africa/US) for 1-3 month contracts (making sure I spend no more than 3 months in any Tax Year in the UK)

4) Claim the Travel costs from my company (i.e me), saving corporation tax, income tax & VAT on anything spent in the UK.

It's likely the Client would cover some of the travel costs, but I'd be looking to travel Business class, especially for short trips (a 4 week piece of work might only require 3 days at the start & 3 days at the end in the UK) and looking to claim all (reasonable) costs from my Company (Plus the cost of Travel for the yearly AGM obviously )

Has anybody done this or am I dreaming if I think it's possible (I did spend my 1st 2 years as a non-resident a (the) Director of the UK limited company I set-up & had no problems sorting out returns etc... via my accountant)

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

I meant that if my UK Dividend income took me over the threshold, I was expecting to have to pay additional tax and wouldn't be able to claim/pay this in Singapore as they don't tax any income from investments (local or overseas) here...

But I'm very happy to be proven wrong on that one

Sorry, but I'm rather struggling to understand what you mean.

If you're non-resident in the UK there is no more tax to pay on dividend income. (The sad part is that tax paid can't be reclaimed.)

If you're not resident in Singapore, there's no tax on foreign (i.e. non-Singaporean) dividends.

So, if you're a British ex-pat and hold your equity investments in Singapore there's no extra tax to pay, either in the UK, or in Singapore, however much the dividend income is. (But then there wouldn't be, even if you held your equities in the UK.)

Does that cover it?

(I'm not sure what the situation is with respect to taxation by Singapore of dividends from Singaporean companies. Haven't looked into it.)

Sorry, "Happy to be proven wrong" was meant literally (as in I'm happy to be shown that I was wrong), but it's not the best phrase to use in an online forum as it can often come across as "Well I don't think I'm wrong, but..."

You covered it perfectly thanks and I'm happy to have had my misunderstanding about Tax on UK Dividends corrected

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

If you're non-resident in the UK you pay no tax on non-UK income, so there's no additional UK income tax to pay on dividend income from investments held in Singapore.

I meant that if my UK Dividend income took me over the threshold, I was expecting to have to pay additional tax and wouldn't be able to claim/pay this in Singapore as they don't tax any income from investments (local or overseas) here...

But I'm very happy to be proven wrong on that one

[edit: To be clear though, I was only wrong about the 40% part, you do pay tax at source on a Dividends and cannot claim this back].

Actually, you were also rather off with the dividend tax credit rate. It's 10% not 25%.

Yeah, spotted the 10% in the link provided & removed that line (more good news )

Have to say, I've not been on TV for very long but am learning an incredible amount of stuff (a lot of which I thought I knew!) which is really helping me plan for my retirement & giving me much more confidence in that planning.

Cheers

JB

Apologies, only time I've had income in the UK above the 40% threshold was when I lived there & I did have to pay additional tax on all of my dividends.

As Singapore doesn't tax income from investments, I'd assumed that it wouldn't be covered by the Double Taxation Agreement and (should I ever be lucky enough to get an income stream from UK Dividends that took me above the threshold) I'd need to pay it.

Very happy to be proven wrong on this one & would be even happier if my UK Dividend Income would get above the 40% threshold

All income arising in the UK is taxed after taking account of your personal allowance.

Is that regardless of where you reside ?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It is not the case that all UK arising income is subject to UK tax for non residents. Income from dividends , for example, no matter how great, is not subject to UK tax for a non resident. Income from property, however, is taxed.

As far as pensions are concerned, it depends on where you live, and if that country has a tax treaty with the UK that covers pension payments. If you live in Australia,for example, it is possible to have your UK pension paid gross because there is a tax treaty (between the two countries) that covers this. The current tax treaty between the UK and Thailand does not cover pensions, therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, then it is not possible to have UK pension payments paid to you without UK tax being deducted.

Sorry, Gordon Brown changed the rules a while back & income from Dividends is taxed (IIRC at 25%, check out your Composite Tax Certificate or Dividend voucher & you'll see an entry for "Tax Credit", this is the Tax that's been deducted from your dividend before it was paid & should be reported on your Tax Return if this plus any other income puts you over the 40% tax threshold then you'll need to pay more Tax on your dividends).

Irrespective of your status as a UK Resident/Tax payer Tax from Dividends cannot be reclaimed against Personal allowances etc...

To the OP, unfortunately there's nothing you can do to stop your pension being taxed at source, but you should get some (all if it's below the Personal Allowance threshold) back though probably need to fill in a Tax Return to do so (very easy to do online).

Cool Thanks

Got it, thanks.

'Say I have a 2-entry tourist visa and, say, about 30d on my first entry I need to make a short trip out of the country and then come right back. Can I get a re-entry permit on my first tourist visa entry (before leaving Thailand) so that when I return I'm still on my first (of two) entries? (Understanding that the original 60d expiry would still apply.)

No. As soon you leave the country and re-enter, you will use your second entry. Doesn't matter how many days you would have left....

Totally false and misleading information . A re entry permit is available to anyone on a tourist visa !

To correct yet another piece of misinformation the nearest place that a triple entry tourist visa could be obtained within the region is BALI !

Sorry, can I just clarify... Does that mean if I had a 60 day Single Entry Visa and needed to travel after (say) 10 days, I could get a re-entry permit to come back on the same Visa to use the remainder of the days?

Thanks Davidst01, I love Bali so any excuse to go there is good with me.

@Hawker, I confess I was looking for a visa that would let me come & go as I please, but it seems the best I can go for is a Triple-Entry visa.

Oh well, just need to explain to my Filipina Princess that it's going to be 3 months between visits

Thanks again guys

Thanks UbonJoe, I was considering a trip to Bali as well so might chance my arm there.

Failing that I'll get the single entry in Singapore & if I need to travel in the 1st 60-90 days (highly unlikely as I'm not allowed to do any work for 3 months or I forfeit my gardening leave) I'll look to get another (hopefully 3 entry) then.

Hi, I live in Singapore & there's a good chance that I'll be made redundant in 2-3 months so I'm looking to spend approx 6 months (1st 3 are gardening leave) in Thailand before moving back to the UK.

I need a multi-entry visa as I may need to fly back to the UK for interviews (or even 2-4 week consulting gigs) & to the Philippines to see the other half but I don't want to have to "Calendar Watch" & do 30 day visa runs (Plus I do want to set-up a Thai bank account, ideally with Citi as that's my bank here).

Can anybody recommend the best place in Asia to go to get a Multi-Entry tourist visa or do I need to go back to the UK to get one?

Thanks

JB

use it or similar so we can rip your calcs apart properly http://www.editgrid.com/

edit: here bcause ur are all to lazy: http://www.editgrid.com/user/cmcondo/CMCondo

read/write access fixed

http://www.editgrid.com/user/cmcondo/CMCondo

history so what you write can still be seen if it gets changed

http://www.editgrid.com/property/history/list/7035824

Not sure if this was aimed at my "Calcs" but I'm happy with my maths thanks (to be honest it represents less than 15% of what I'm concerned about)

But I will check out the links (knowledge gained is less mistakes made) so thanks again

Edit: sorry there's no way I'm uploading the spreadsheet I use as it has personal details about my bank balances, shareholdings, pensions & even predicted redundancy payments.

If you'd like me to cut out the property part (assumptions I've stated should cover it) then can look into doing that.

Looked at doing this, but because I've done my calculations backwards (have worked out how much money I would need to have xxxx amount each month, split that across expenses to see how much more I need to save) it's tricky to do.

FWIW, here's how much I calculated I'd need for the next 11 years 9 months assuming inflation goes up by 5.3%pa & is applied at the start of the year (e.g if I need £1,000 in year one, I would need £1,053 in y2, £1,108 in y3 etc...)

£500 = £96,536

£750 = £144,804

£1,000 = £193,072

£1,250 = £241,340

£1,500 = £289,609

£1,750 = £337,877

£2,000 = £386,145

£2,250 = £434,413

£2,500 = £482,681

£3,000 = £579,218

Subtracting £60,000 from these (I.e B3M Condo) and I would have approx £318/B17K less per month to spend.

Then subtract Condo Fees (say B3,000 per month) General maintenance costs (Say B5,000 per month) & lost opportunity costs of not having the £60,000 invested (say at 2% = approx B5,000 per month) and the difference becomes more like B4K per month.

Obviously at the end of the 11 years 9 months I would own the Condo, but renting I would still have the £60,000 (adjusted for any compound interest gains) so financially it does feel like a wager on whether you believe the property market is going to go up or down over that term.

use it or similar so we can rip your calcs apart properly http://www.editgrid.com/

edit: here bcause ur are all to lazy: http://www.editgrid.com/user/cmcondo/CMCondo

read/write access fixed

http://www.editgrid.com/user/cmcondo/CMCondo

history so what you write can still be seen if it gets changed

http://www.editgrid.com/property/history/list/7035824

Not sure if this was aimed at my "Calcs" but I'm happy with my maths thanks (to be honest it represents less than 15% of what I'm concerned about)

But I will check out the links (knowledge gained is less mistakes made) so thanks again

Edit: sorry there's no way I'm uploading the spreadsheet I use as it has personal details about my bank balances, shareholdings, pensions & even predicted redundancy payments.

If you'd like me to cut out the property part (assumptions I've stated should cover it) then can look into doing that.

I did some very back of a cigarette packet calculations & worked out that I would be £60-65 per month better off buying a 3MillionTHB condo than paying 22,000THB per month to rent.

Main assumptions were

1. Numbers above (e.g if the rent was only 20K, the difference was only £25 per month, if it was only 15k, I'd be better of by £70 per month renting

2. Assumed rent goes up at a constant yearly inflation rate of 5.3% (my attempt to cater for inflation & currency fluctuations)

3. Condo/maintenance fees of 5k per month

4. Time period of 11 years & 9 months (until I'm 60 & my pension kicks in)

5. I'd pay for the Condo in cash upfront so would be ahead/behind by anything it was worth minus lost opportunity costs of not having the money invested.

Completely flawed assumptions, but better than nothing to me

I'm paying 12000 baht a month in rent for a condo that I suspect would sell for about 3 million baht. I had to shop around a bit to find this place, but now that I've established myself as a responsible tenant that pays on time and takes care of the property, the owner seems keen on keeping me here and has not brought up the subject of a rent increase in over two years. And, as I indicated earlier, if I decide to move it will be a lot easier than if I owned this place. I'm missing out on the investment possibilities, but real estate investing in Thailand is more of a gamble than I'm willing to take.

12k per month for a 3M apartment is "only" 1-250 so (for me) borderline between Rent Vs Buy (e.g my house in the UK is rented out at approx 1-350 & I rent an apartment in Singapore at approx 1-450)

but at 12k per month for what I'm assuming is a very nice Apartment, I'd rent as well

"1-250", 1-350", "1-450"? Do you mean the monthly rent divided by value of property? If so, most of the posters on this subject optimistically assume they can rent out property at 1-100, or in a worst case scenario 1-200.

Yes, I think my condo is nice and in a good location. But if Nimmanhamin goes south due to rampant over-developement I can easily relocate. That's one of the advantages of renting.

Exactly, it's what I look at when buying a property to live in (never mind as an investment)

1-100 is pretty common in PI, 1-200 Thailand, 1-300 UK (not London), 1-500 Singapore

Doesn't necessarily make it a good/bad investment, many more factors to consider

I did some very back of a cigarette packet calculations & worked out that I would be £60-65 per month better off buying a 3MillionTHB condo than paying 22,000THB per month to rent.

Main assumptions were

1. Numbers above (e.g if the rent was only 20K, the difference was only £25 per month, if it was only 15k, I'd be better of by £70 per month renting

2. Assumed rent goes up at a constant yearly inflation rate of 5.3% (my attempt to cater for inflation & currency fluctuations)

3. Condo/maintenance fees of 5k per month

4. Time period of 11 years & 9 months (until I'm 60 & my pension kicks in)

5. I'd pay for the Condo in cash upfront so would be ahead/behind by anything it was worth minus lost opportunity costs of not having the money invested.

Completely flawed assumptions, but better than nothing to me

I'm paying 12000 baht a month in rent for a condo that I suspect would sell for about 3 million baht. I had to shop around a bit to find this place, but now that I've established myself as a responsible tenant that pays on time and takes care of the property, the owner seems keen on keeping me here and has not brought up the subject of a rent increase in over two years. And, as I indicated earlier, if I decide to move it will be a lot easier than if I owned this place. I'm missing out on the investment possibilities, but real estate investing in Thailand is more of a gamble than I'm willing to take.

12k per month for a 3M apartment is "only" 1-250 so (for me) borderline between Rent Vs Buy (e.g my house in the UK is rented out at approx 1-350 & I rent an apartment in Singapore at approx 1-450)

but at 12k per month for what I'm assuming is a very nice Apartment, I'd rent as well

I should have mentioned those calculations were based on living in Bangkok hence the numbers/assumptions for the 1st point

I did some very back of a cigarette packet calculations & worked out that I would be £60-65 per month better off buying a 3MillionTHB condo than paying 22,000THB per month to rent.

Main assumptions were

1. Numbers above (e.g if the rent was only 20K, the difference was only £25 per month, if it was only 15k, I'd be better of by £70 per month renting

2. Assumed rent goes up at a constant yearly inflation rate of 5.3% (my attempt to cater for inflation & currency fluctuations)

3. Condo/maintenance fees of 5k per month

4. Time period of 11 years & 9 months (until I'm 60 & my pension kicks in)

5. I'd pay for the Condo in cash upfront so would be ahead/behind by anything it was worth minus lost opportunity costs of not having the money invested.

Completely flawed assumptions, but better than nothing to me

As Charlie Sheen (and many a BM have) said, I don't pay girls to sleep with me, I pay them to leave in the morning.