BritTim

12 hours ago, jayboy said:

I wonder who is going to police this.Consider the example of a resident 180 day+ foreign pensioner has never submitted a Thai tax return but in future intends to use a foreign credit card to cover as many Thai expenses as he can, eg hotels, big ticket purchases, ATM cash etc. His objective is to reduce remittances from overseas through the banking system to a minimum just in case he is required to pay Thai income tax.

 

But how exactly will he be compelled to submit a Thai tax return and join the Thai income tax net? Is it voluntary - if so not many takers. I don't see how this will work.

Worst case, and I actually do not think it will happen, we could go back to the system that existed decades ago where you needed a tax clearance to leave the country after spending more than a certain number of days here during the calendar year. That involved an interrogation at the tax office and was worse than any of the bureaucracy we must endure here now. The tax clearance was abolished during the short technocrat government of Anand Panyarachun about 30 years ago.

4 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

That is very true, I got them back together before, but over 30,000Bt????

Once you enter visa exempt, the previous permission to stay that was protected by the re-entry permit is history, and there is nothing Immigration can do about it. Applying for a new Non O visa at Immigration followed by the initial one-year permission to stay is costly if you ask an agent to do it rather than doing it yourself.

Yes, if you are on a Non O visa (Thai spouse) or an extension of stay based on marriage, you are allowed to work and can get a work permit once you find a job.

7 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

This is the kind of information I'm talking about. In my humble opinion what  you've just written could be organized and all put in a post and pinned along with all the common demoninators . As much info as possible including differences in requirements between offices and "rogue" offices etc.

In practice, 5,000 word posts are never read properly.

I could point you at the partially correct page provided by the Immigration Bureau (https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf) with just warnings (i) that it is not 100% correct as to the standard requirements; and (ii) not all offices follow the standard requirements.

Knowing that you were applying at CW, and had applied for a visa at Immigration before, we were able to tell you that the documents you used in the past should be used together with proof that the TM30 notification had been done, and the credit advice document associated with the funds transfer. Unlike at most offices, CW does not require a long term rental agreement.

I appreciate that some of the replies were unhelpful, but the paragraph above (repeating what I posted earlier) should succinctly provide you with what you need. A 5,000 word post dealing with the requirements for all 75 immigration offices that would soon be out of date would not be more helpful.

41 minutes ago, Foek said:

Visa and extension of stay will be transferred by Immigration to your friends new passport.

Best he goes to Immigration and be 100% sure.

Any visa (assuming it was issued at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand) will not be transferred. To use it, it is necessary to travel with both passports until the expiry of the visa.

5 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

It's not "more than 180 days" it's "180 days or more". Not same same.

It is worth noting that exactly what "days" means is unclear. Is a 59-night stay 60 days (as declared by Immigration) or is it 60 days?

3 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

It's my understanding funds DO NOT have to be in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to application for initial Non O .. experienced members please confirm as well as kindly supply a requirements/documents check list.

Your understanding on funds seasoning is correct (according to the official rules). That applies to Chaengwattana. Ask the bank for a credit advice from your transfer as the officials will want to see incontrovertible evidence that the funds came from abroad.

There are no changes to the document requirements compared to the past, except that they are much more likely to want to see evidence of the TM30 notification. You explain that you are staying temporarily in the hotel while seeking a permanent place to stay.

[A very few immigration offices can have non standard requirements, such as funds seasoning, or may even refuse to accept an application at all, especially if you live a long way from the immigration office.]

6 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

They created the problem by allowing the corruption... they continue to feed the problem by not ending the corruption... and the ones who suffer the most are the ones who follow the rules and get inundated with the bureaucracy... both the applicant and the IO officers... the fact that it has become harder and harder for the good people who follow the rules is testament to what I said.

I still fail to understand what you believe to be the "corruption" at the Savannakhet consulate. The requirements, there, for a multiple entry Non O visa are less onerous than at other consulates, and they were previously lenient in the requirements for a single entry tourist visa. I have never heard of any extra charges over and above the visa application fees (that do not go to the officials). Please explain the benefit you believe the consular officials at Savannakhet receive from their "corruption", and how this "corruption" works.

Note that lacking of hatred of foreigners is not corruption.

EDIT: Actually, there is one corrupt practice that has been observed (not by the consular officials, and nothing to do with the application itself). It has been reported that you can pay to jump the huge queues that occur at the consulate some days. If that was the motivation for the friendlier requirements, they would not have made the decision to deter applications for tourist visas.

Friday October 13 is one of the official holidays that will be observed by the Vientiane embassy and Savannakhet consulate (https://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/page/office-hours-and-holiday?menu=63bb90d69da54379d32269a3.

Neither will be open Friday and, for applications made October 12 at Savannakhet, passports will be returned with the visas on Monday October 16.

An exchange of insulting comments between two members has been removed. Please avoid content free insults.

He should allow extra time. Some information from the old passport needs to be transferred to the new passport (though the visa is not transferred). There is a designated official that does this who may not always be immediately available. I once needed to wait nearly two hours. If travelling independently, I recommend getting to the border in the morning. If on an organised border run, verify that the van will wait if there is a significant delay in getting the stamp transfers done.

4 hours ago, driveout said:

Thanks for you answering. This apply to all the city’s in Thailand? I mean when a immigration rules change will it come to action to all city’s or some part?

When a Ministerial Police Order is issued, it is the law everywhere. It would not be unknown for individual immigration offices to ignore some of the conditions in an order, but it should be assumed that offices will follow the law until proven otherwise.

Also, under unusual circumstances, the Ministry might instruct offices to waive certain requirements for a time. During Covid, some conditions for student extensions were relaxed (not officially announced) but have been back in full force since the start of this year.

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

But have there been any reports of immigration asking anyone at the airport to show "proof that you were always legally in Thailand"? In practice what they do is stamp you out which brings the visa to an end immediately and that is the end of that.

 

The OP is leaving by air so what happens at land borders is irrelevant.

It has never (so far as I know) been a problem at the airport. However, it can be a continuing sword of Damocles over your head whenever you have contact with Immigration in the future.

2 hours ago, vinci said:

maybe they don't like his look, they don't ask for financial statement and this was two month ago

If you received a multiple entry Non O visa in HCMC two months ago, without showing financial proof, please confirm this (preferably, with a scan of the visa you received). There have been many reports over the last six months or so of financials now being one of the requirements.

On 10/2/2023 at 6:22 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Two things... first, yes I am happily married to a Thai woman and fully support the Thai way as opposed to the farang who want the system to change for them.  Secondly, supporting the corruption in Savannakhet IO is against what the Thai government is trying to accomplish... so yes this IO has become, as you say, a shady backstreet illegal agents office that is in it for the baht... not as you would like to believe to help the less fortunate retiree who cannot put 400k in the bank to qualify for a marriage visa. 

Accusing Savannakhet of only issuing Non O visas for the visa fees is absolutely ridiculous. That consulate (like Vientiane before the appointment system) is inundated with applications, and so desperate to reduce the number of applicants that, as a deterrent, it had to become one of the hardest consulates to get single entry tourist visas. It is a fact that the officials at Savannakhet (and those in Vientiane) are basically friendly people who do not favour the breaking up of families leaving divorced wives and fatherless children. That is distinct from the anti foreigner attitudes of some other embassies/consulates.

4 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

What overstay fines when there's been no overstay? I agree that not cancelling the work permit could lead to issues with the Department of Employment if the OP wants to apply for another work permit but these are unrelated to overstaying.

It is potentially a major problem. The concern Immigration can have is that your employment might have ended weeks before you left the country. Having your employment formally terminated by the employer, showing the exact date of the end of your employment eliminates that possibility. If you leave when on an extension of stay based on working, and Immigration wants proof that you were always legally in Thailand, a formal termination letter from your previous employer showing the end date of your employment being on or after the date you left Thailand should be enough to satisfy them. Otherwise, especially if you left your employer under bad terms, it can become a real mess.

59 minutes ago, driveout said:

Do you know how long these rule have been in action? 

I vaguely remember the announcement, but it was over a decade ago. It was already in force at the time of the last major overhaul of the requirements for extensions of temporary permission to stay (Police Order 327/2557) in 2014.

4 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Does anyone have a link to an official English translation of this new rule?  I suspect there has to be one out there.  

In my experience, Thai laws rarely have "official" English translations. The laws that are important to foreigners usually end up being translated by third parties. You use those translations at your own risk.

2 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

If the DTA does not override the local tax laws, then there is no need for a DTA. Therefore, where there is a DTA, it overrides the local tax law.

I agree that this is the normal situation. Some reading reveals the following argument used by some countries (notably Germany). At the time a treaty is signed, it will override any extant local law. However, democratic principles dictate that a future government should not be prevented by treaty obligations from implementing local laws that conflict. This argument was used to invalidate certain aspects of the DTA between Germany and Turkey in 2015. I am very uncomfortable with this theory which basically holds that future governments can ignore treaties negotiated by their predecessors. Presumably, this means that Germany could, for instance, pass a new local law that immediately cancelled its obligations within NATO.

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

That's completely wrong, I'm amazed anyone actually wrote that. American banks do use SWIFT, here's a list of their SWIFT codes, from SWIFT.

 

https://www.theswiftcodes.com/united-states/

The way I understood his post (and this conforms with my experience of years ago) a transfer from a US bank to Bangkok Bank New York does not use SWIFT (though it possibly could). Similarly, it is possible to request them to credit your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand without doing a SWIFT transfer. Actually, in the past, I used to transfer to Bangkok Bank's account in Chase Manhattan with instructions for further credit to my account in Thailand.. This took less than 24 hours.

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks but what’s your authority for answer #1?  The translation you linked says flatly that foreign income brought into Thailand must be included in assessable income.  No exceptions for DTAs.  If they’d intended such an exception they should have said “subject to any DTA …” or words to that effect.  Also, I’ve never seen a DTA that says foreign income is or is not assessable in Thailand depending on when it is brought into Thailand.  That is an internal Thai question that wouldn’t make sense to be in a treaty because the foreign government couldn’t know if or when the income was moved and therefore the foreign tax treatment couldn’t turn on such an event. 

It looks to me like the big change here is foreign income is included even if brought into Thailand more than a year after receipt (whereas up to now such “delayed” income has not been required to be included). 

I am not qualified to comment generally on this subject. However, I can make one comment with confidence. Any foreign treaty obligations will override the text of local laws whether the authorities want it or not. If wording in the DTA indicates that certain categories of income do not need to be declared, that will be the controlling law.

Assuming you have not already spent very long periods in Thailand as a tourist, this will be absolutely no problem.

7 hours ago, Chesterpot said:

I have to leave by November 21st. I should have the funds in my bank account within 2 weeks.

At most immigration offices (it can be earlier at a few) the absolute latest you can apply for the Non O visa at Immigration is Monday November 6th (earlier would be better). The money must be in a Thai bank account in your name only on the day you apply.

1 hour ago, hydraides said:

You can probably keep doing it but you will need to go back to your home country for a new passport every few years

 

From my understanding , Immigration at the airport won't see you had an educational visa on the computer........Maybe just the length of time you've been in thailand

Immigration at the airport will be aware of your previous entries with a Non Ed visa, and also see a record of your extensions. The embassy/consulate where you apply for a visa will generally not have access to your Immigration history, only what is visible in your current passport (and your old passport if, as occasionally happens, they demand to look at that).

3 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Never heard of a TE visa. So, I guess I can't comment, course, I didn't have an answer one way or another. ????

TE, in this context, is Thailand Elite.