Jip99

6 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

Forest man, I don't know what you mean.  I need to get away from village life for a while

Now, THAT,   I can understand...

2 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

Normally there is a spoon to dispense the stuff to the person's bowl.  Double dipping?? they don't care. And nor do I because I will not  eat insects and chicken's feet and stuff a western dog would turn it nose up at.

My love affair  with this nation is coming to a close.

It must be more than jingreets and bplah rah that is causing your discontent ?

1 minute ago, Johnniey said:

Strict? A minimum state pension is hardly a lot.

That does not get you an extension to live here

16 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

A borderless world would be great, yet many who are allowed to live in Thailand(without jobs) seem to be against it. 

 

As a wise man said the other day - "reciprocation"

Those "many" are invariably here under fairly strict immigration financial rules.

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Good post and well argued.

 

No buts from me this time although I would ask one more question.  Given where we are today, do you think  Brexit, as it  looks now, is going to deliver what you voted for? 

 

I know that is a bit unfair given that nothing as yet has been agreed in writing but with all the concessions now in place I think it is valid.

I think that is a tough one.... a fair question because on 23rd June 2016 you could have reasonably asked me "do you think  Brexit will deliver what you are voting for?"

I have to say, yes............. and in all honesty I think that is because mt objective was to leave the EU.

If you say, "well that is a bit cavalier" I would have to respond by saying - "well that is what the options were that were presented to me., and getting out of the EU was what I wanted". It almost didn't matter what we were going into, there was a confidence that   'any Brexit is better than no Brexit'.

Did I expect someone to have a cohesive blueprint for an orderly withdrawal from the EU on terms that may have been penciled in by EU hierarchy - yes, in my naivety, I did.

I am not sure how I would have answered your question, gad you asked... "would you have voted for Brexit if you knew that Cameron would immediately resign, the government had no such blueprint and they were going to put some inept remainer in charge of the exit process".

I suspect the answer would have been.. (and I know you are looking for me to say this, so I will )......   "Of course not, how could I vote for something that has no structure, no leadership and no heart  -  take the referendum away and bring it back to me when you have a suitable manifesto/blueprint".

Now... please don't jump all over me and say that is exactly the reason we should have another referendum because I don't agree that we should. Just because they forked up the process doesn't mean that the remain/leave vote was wrong.

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I liked your post, not because I necessarily agree with your position, but because it is rare that I have seen the Brexiter's position expressed without a lot of the hysteria and hubris. That said, both sides were dominated by the more headline grabbing personalities and their lurid claims, which, I believe, led to many in the the soft middle (or was it only me?) feeling a bit bamboozled and unrepresented fully by either side.

Perhaps because I live in Thailand, and avoid mainstream news programmes, I missed all that cr4p!

Those headline grabbing/lurid claims were from both sides with the 'establishment' forecasting Doomsday and every corporate leaving London. That very quickly didn't happen. We can't prevent the bullshit, but perhaps we can sift it - like Corbyn's promises about student loans; few were taken in, except perhaps students.

My eldest daughter did not decide which way to vote until the day of the referendum - I think she certainly felt bamboozled. I had several friends who voted to remain because that was the easiest/safest "better the devil you know" option.

I am no tub-thumper and certainly not into hysteria. Rather, I made my decision based on weighing up where we were (and how we got there) versus what I believed Brexit might look like.  An impossible appraisal in hindsight and I can accept the argument that voting to leave was rather like playing Poker, blind. That may be the case, but when I felt I was holding 2,3,6,8,9 of different coloured cards then even blind Poker looked attractive!

Thank you for recognising that I expressed my position sensibly - I repeat that I am a moderate centre right conservative thinker who loves Europe but detested what the EU had become (and it's performance over the previous 10 years). Remember also that there are many who voted Remain who are capable of prejudice and hysteria....one example... a Facebook 'friend' (we never actually met but we had a common interest)had the audacity to de-friend me for having an opposing view to him on Brexit. No debate, and in de-friending me he accused me of being a bigoted racist (simply by voting to leave). Sad that the polarisation associated with this process has become so wide.

20 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Touché

You are right I don't live in Thailand anymore.  When we did we bought our eggs from the local market (usually duck eggs actually) and I don't remember any adverse side effects.

 

As I said none of my business about how Brexit affects you personally.  I do agree that we all voted for what we feel is best for our children.  It is a great pity that more young people didn't go out and vote because it is their future we are affecting.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the Brexit that the leavers voted for would be good for the future of Britain, but you aren't getting what you voted for.  The promises made were never viable and although you voted in good faith you were lied to and betrayed.  It is OK to say that May and Davis and the negotiators are failing to deliver but in fact they can't deliver.  That was evident from day one.

 

We are all losing here and you should be angry about that, I know I am.

I am also angry, but about the ineptitude of government.... prior to the referendum and since.

Nothing changes my mind about the decision to vote to leave the EU.... I was up for that long before the vote. I voted to leave the EU because I preferred that to staying in the EU. Not necessarily for me, but the major issue was no that one (Cameron, the EU, May, the Tories) could tell us what BREXIT looked like. Any lies on the Leave side were no more influencing than the lies on the Remain side.

Whilst Brexit opened the door to a right wing element to make it (mainly) an immigration issue - and an extreme one in their case - it was never going to be a situation where people were forcibly repatriated, Sharia law outlawed and mosques demolished (nor should it be).

Brexit for me was about the principle of taking control back over a number of issues... laws that affected the UK, the right to set limits/quotas on immigration - and refugees. Decisions that felt should be taken at national level, not EU level. It was also about a belief that the EU had grown out of control and was unrecognisable from the EEC that we joined in 1973. I find myself relating to speeches by Peter Shore and Tony Benn - politicians who I had voted against all my life. It is nothing about imperialism and bringing back the old empire days - far from it.

As much as I cannot relate to the politics of Nigel Farage I do applaud him for securing the referendum - something that may have been unnecessary if the highly capable Cameron had had the balls to do his job properly - oh, how I wish Cameron was a Brexiteer and leading the exit.

So, I don't care what number it had on the Brexit bus but I did like the idea that funds saved from EU contributions would give the option of better funding for the NHS. I liked the idea that the UK, rather than the EU could determine how many refugees it accepted and I liked the idea that the UK had control of it's own borders - Freedom of Movement was a good idea when there were 9 central European countries.

Should there have been a bet defined package of what Brexit entailed ? Yes, of course, but even the EU had no blueprint for a member leaving, as didn't Cameron's government! Article 50 was written with the intention of it never being used.... it was like having a heading 'The theory of physics'... with blank pages below.

Is it a complete balls up ? Yes it is, for a number of reasons and few people come out of this with any credit - however, that still does not make the fundamental decision to leave wrong.