Dogmatix

In his special interview with BBC, Chaturon said the Pheu Thai would have to find a way to balance Thaksin's influence over the Cabinet.

"The party will need to find some balance in this," Chaturon, who was acting leader of the Thai Rak Thai part when it was dissolved, told BBC.

"They will need to make it clear that whoever is going to be prime minister can show that they have independence and can make a decision on their own."

Do not accept any more skype calls, policemen who vow allegiance to Thaksin fired, PM to step down. Pretty good start i would think.

Chaturon seems to be make quite a ploy to leap frog to the premiership but suggesting it is time to move on past the Shinawatras but it was a different story when he was on the red shirt stage on Friday night helping Jatuporn get them fired up for bloodshed the next day. Have seen him talk and he seems to be a strange mixture of reasonableness and sheer pig headedness.

she claims to be in control of her government, but "refuses to order" the police or army to use force against the occupiers of government offices...so exactly what government does she claim to be in control of, just the parts that don't use offices?

She has appointed cousin Suraphong to take over that responsibility from Pol Gen Pracha. The only problem is that Suraphong already looks as if he has been beaten up. He has a pair of black eyes that look more severe than Nick Nostitz's injuries at the rally last week.

'Mark' was appointed by the court. The democrats can't win an election. They can't even win a protest. (yes, yes, I know ... it's all Thaksin's fault)

He was not appointed by a court. He was elected via a simple majority vote in Parliament.

Cartoon by Steph in today's The Nation.

It must be quite an accolade for him to know that he has been nominated by Red New Mandala for the worst cartoonist of the year award.

but as prime minister, what I can do must be under the constitution," she added.

Isn't this whole situation because as a prime minister she thought she could do whatever she wanted, regardless what was written in the constitution ?

Exactly. She declined to recognise the authority of the Constitutional Court and is still insisting the King sign the Senate reform bill that has been ruled unconstitutional by the court.

Perhaps her intellectual acuity is insufficient to see the inherit contradiction. Anyway she is constitutional toast.

Soon the Thaksin family will stand accused of the traffic accidents in Thailand and of the extreme weather this year. Seems to me all other charges already on file. It's amazing what and how much knowledge members of this forum have on this man and his family

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Traffic is no longer a problem in Bangkok after Thaksin pledged to solve all traffic woes within 6 months in 1996. Job done.

When was it that Thaksin initiated his traffic light solution to traffic jams? The one where he promised to solve everything by making the green lights last longer.

From memory it was in 1996 or 1997. He was a minister in Chavalit's government that managed to bring the country to it's knees (Tom Yam crisis) in 1997.

It's true that no government here has been close to squeaky clean but there's also no doubt that Thaksin brought corruption & nepotism to a new level. Both police and military have had clan members given rocket-propelled promotions to lead - far beyond their level of competence.

He also amended laws to benefit himself, his clan & his company (AIS) - something that no previous government was blatant enough to do. And some ignorant souls here think that the current crisis is not about the Shin clan.

In any real democracy, a government (or at least it's leader) would have resigned after their disastrous (temporary, unfortunately) amnesty bill failure followed by refusing to accept a court decision because it went against them. Here, in a sort of Thaksinocracy, the PM's brother refused to allow her or the government to resign. In real democracies a PM's resignation would trigger a vote within the governing (majority) party to elect a replacement. Here PTP have no such internal democracy - all are appointed by one person. Some democracy.

It is impossible for a party that has no concept of democracy internally to govern democratically. The country needs a pause to rid politics of the worst offenders (including dinosaurs such as Suthep) and a real sharp-fanged body to tackle corruption, including vote buying, before embarking on a real democratic course towards elections.

BTW I don't subscribe to the non-universal suffrage posted by some, neither do I subscribe to an all-elected senate unless the electors are somewhat different to those in a general election.

The main method used by Thaksin in solving Bangkok's traffic problem was to get his wife to give cash prizes to the cop in each station that wrote the most tickets each month instead of just taking bribes as usual. I remember the crowd at the Foreign Correspondent's Club gasping and then giggling when he announced this nonsense.

The Tom Yam Kung crisis was a windfall for him according some who claim he had advance warning and made a killing from shorting the baht.

Thai social media has also reported that the protestors are deploying one those trucks that sucks the sh*t out of cess pools to put into reserve fire against police lines.

If she resigns now, this would lead to an endless story of come and go come and go, dancing after whoever fancy to start a personal vendetta against the sitting power to be. When it comes down to Thaksin and his family just about the only thing they havent been accused of is the high fatalities in traffic accidents. Who will be the next target of the street mob. Surly a country can not be run like this, that whoever feels a fancy, start street protests and demand incredible stupid things like a peoples council. Tell me someone, where the hell in a modern society would this pass for good value. I cant think of anywhere except maybe one of the piss poor African countries. It is one word, and one word only for the things set in motion by Suthep these days, and that is anarchy, and he seems well on the way reaching his goal. I just hope for the Thai people that this will end peacefull, but i have my doubts.

I think they view getting the Yingluck and other relations (Suraphong, Yaowalulck, Somchai) out of politics and not letting Thaksin's children in would be a step in the right direction. Thaksin cannot trust anyone outside his own clan to push his agenda. If they are gone, he is left with outsiders who will take his money but not stay the course when the going gets rough.

I believe most of today's protestors could live with an elected PT government that excludes this tainted family. Pheua Thai would become more factional which would make it harder to pursue obnoxious policy agendas and it would become more reliant on coalition parties. If they dissolve Parliament but Yingluck stays as the PT candidate, her popularity has sunk so low that she would prejudice their chances. Suraphong, Yaowaluck, Somchai, Potjaman and T's children are odious fugures who would lose the party even more support, if they stepped up to replace Y.

The selfish billionaire must be playing an interesting game of solitaire chess right now. Not much time to think about the next critical moves.

By the way... Wife just said that they won't stop protesting for the 5th, they will just stay there and celebrate where they are and many more people may come to join and support them.

Interesting. I think Suthep's tactic will be to clear the area near Sanam Luang for the official celebrations but take advantage of the public holiday to call on supporters to come and "celebrate" Father's Day in the open with him leading to another million man estimate.

Cousin Suraphong at the CAPO is now drawing blood with penetrative hard plastic bullets fired at some velocity. It is only a matter of time before people are killed by them. Protestors already lobbing imrovised explosive devices at police which will provoke more retaliation. The military are cleverly standing by and only acting to rescue people like they did in the 2011 floods, hanging the police out to dry.

Only a matter of time now before the two cousins fold.

What is the significance of replacing Pracha, a fas head of the CAPO (di Tutti CAPI)?

Was Pracha's experience as a former national police chief found wanting? Surapong's superior experience as Thaksin's cousin deemed more important?

read the anti-western speech that Suthep gave in January of this year. He blames western infiltration for many of Thailand's problems and wants westerners out of the country. Did you buy a condo in Pattaya?

Really?

I would have thought that would have been a very popular topic here in TVF.

I think you have an overactive imagination.

Unless of course you can go and fetch some evidence of the anti-western speech to support your claims, if not... then go back to sleep.

Don't know about the January speech claimed above, but Suthep's certainly expressed strong opinions on farang before.

'THAILAND on Thursday dismissed suggestions that foreign observers were needed to monitor its upcoming election, with the deputy prime minister saying he does ‘not respect’ Westerners.

It would be ‘inappropriate’ to allow outside involvement in the poll, which is due in June or July and comes after deadly street protests last year, said Suthep Thaugsuban.

‘I don’t respect ‘farangs’. We do not have to surrender to them,‘ he said, using the Thai word for ‘Westerners’.

…

‘I am surprised that Red Shirts do not respect our country’s sovereignty… I don’t understand why they constantly call for foreign involvement, it is inappropriate,’ Mr Suthep told reporters.'

http://asiancorrespondent.com/51084/thailand-rejects-foreign-election-observers/

A bit like the Boss's famous quote, "The UN is not my father", in response to UN concern over his program of extrajudicial killings by the police.

Thai social media report that one of the dead red shirts was wearing a black shirt in response to instructions from Jatuporn for small groups to don black shirts and cause mayhem with the students. They say it was a case of mistaken identity and red shirt guards shot him thinking he was an Anti-Thaksinista. The truth may never be known.

Oh? So it's 'DAAD' now, and no longer UDD (United Front for Dictatorship Against Democracy)? Well I guess DAAD works too... Dictatorial Alliance against Democracy (DAAD). And then we have PDRC (People's Democratic Reform Committee)... so is it correct that all demonstrating factions are united under one 'party' now? At the rate things are going, Thai politics is going to read like a car brochure, what with all the acronyms... ABS, EBD, TCS, SRS, EPS, DOHC, EFI...

UDD and DAAD both still go under the same name in Thai. How it is referred to in English media is misleading but irrelevant to the situation.

Of course what Suthep is saying is outrageous. It doesn't matter. It's not intended to be implemented. He's playing a very useful role for the opposition .. bringing the Govt down.

You've nailed it. Protest leaders can't fire up the crowd by just asking for something tame like the PM's resignation or a dissolution of Parliament. They need to fire up the imaginations of their supporters and Suthep, almost as an afterthought, has come up with some pretty good reform suggestions that unfortunately cannot be implemented within the constitutional framework.

I am not sure exactly what he is really hoping for but it must be something like a dissolution of Parliament and an exit from politics of Yingluck which will make it very hard for Thaksin to find another family replacement and he can't trust anyone outside the clan. The military has shown its displeasure with the government by bringing in the King's Guard to rescue the Ramkhamhaeng students and telling the police to stop tear gassing people. Suthep probably feels that by pushing a little harder the government might keel over.

The military is key. Although they are not interested in staging a coup, they are needed to back up the police, if things get seriously out of control. The police have started stepping up riot control methods and will probably kill some one pretty soon. Without the military back-up and unable to use their firearms without dire consequences police could get overrun in key locations like the National Police HQ which is hard to defend in a busy commercial area with several entrances and the Metropolitan Police Bureau. The police on duty at these locations, dragged down from upcountry, are demoralised by facing angry protestors accusing them of not loving the King and being turkeys for Thaksin.

I think the end game is a negotiation for a dissolution of Parliament ... and (what we probably won't hear about) agreement that in return for something Thaksin wants ..... none from the Thaksin clan/mob will run for re-election. PTP would be running without Thaksin's money or any of his relatives.

Could he resist it?

Isn't this the 4th or 5th ultimatimum Suthep has given himself and/or others?

He's a bit over optimistic each time.

I would like to know if his sentiment and motives is really shared by a majority of the Thai people.

But since he does not want any democratic election, we will therefore not know how the

majority votes, i.e. how the majority thinks.

Vote-buying during elections is one of Suthep's main points for his revolt.

But, if democratic elections in general mean that voters vote as they want, then one can argue

that even having a democratic election where votes are bought, it is still a democratic election,

because the voters vote as they want. They made their own decision.

Admittedly, their (bought) votes are based on money received, but that money is

basically an incentive, and don't most political parties run on incentives, if not cash hand-outs

then their policies and promises that appeal to a certain group (and it usually appeals because

the voter think his life will improve, financially and otherwise, i.e. his own benefit).

By the way, most stories from Thais I've heard about vote buying also include that many will

happily receive the hand-out and then proceed on their way still voting as they themselves prefer.

Of course, in Thailand, one could ask, if there were no vote buying, how many voters could make

their own decision how to vote after considering all election programs. My guess is they would still

be persuaded by populist policies. How many farmers would understand the macro-economics of

the rice scheme and vote against it despite knowing they would get a higher price for their rice?

I think they only look at the latter. There would be no vote-buying, but there would be fancy promises.

Having said this, I know the other gripe most Thais have is the corruption, graft, self-enrichment etc

after the elections are over. But corruption is something not limited to government, it is in fact part of Thai culture.

Many will recall recent polls where Thais have admitted that corruption is ok if it benefits them personally.

With that attitude, just replacing the people in the government, whether in another government or a council,

does not guarantee a clean government. How many people can resist easily skimming off

say Baht 10 million from some government infra-structure project, knowing it would go unnoticed?

The attitude needs to change. How is Suthep going to do that?

Actually Suthep's main thrust seems to be not vote buying but that the government has lost legitimacy due to its declaration of refusal to acknowledge the authority of the Constitutional Court and its refusal to withdraw the Senate reform bill which the PM had already sent to the Palace for HMK's signature without waiting for the Constitutional Court ruling that ruled teh bill unconstitutional. According to the constitution the court has the authority to uphold the constitution and the HMK has 90 days to approve legislation submitted by Parliament. So this is indeed a constitutional crisis waiting to unfold whether Suthep was there or not.

Harking back to 1954 something similar happened when the Land Code was submitted to the King for signature containing a clause limiting Thais to ony 50 rai of land which many regarded as unconstitutional. There was no Constitutional Court to rule on such matters in those days and HMK signed the bill on the last day of the 90 days permitted by the constitution at the time. Not long afterwards the government was booted out in a military coup and the offending clause in the Land Code was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court and repealed. If it had remained in force, Thailand might look very different today.

Of course what Suthep is saying is outrageous. It doesn't matter. It's not intended to be implemented. He's playing a very useful role for the opposition .. bringing the Govt down.

You've nailed it. Protest leaders can't fire up the crowd by just asking for something tame like the PM's resignation or a dissolution of Parliament. They need to fire up the imaginations of their supporters and Suthep, almost as an afterthought, has come up with some pretty good reform suggestions that unfortunately cannot be implemented within the constitutional framework.

I am not sure exactly what he is really hoping for but it must be something like a dissolution of Parliament and an exit from politics of Yingluck which will make it very hard for Thaksin to find another family replacement and he can't trust anyone outside the clan. The military has shown its displeasure with the government by bringing in the King's Guard to rescue the Ramkhamhaeng students and telling the police to stop tear gassing people. Suthep probably feels that by pushing a little harder the government might keel over.

The military is key. Although they are not interested in staging a coup, they are needed to back up the police, if things get seriously out of control. The police have started stepping up riot control methods and will probably kill some one pretty soon. Without the military back-up and unable to use their firearms without dire consequences police could get overrun in key locations like the National Police HQ which is hard to defend in a busy commercial area with several entrances and the Metropolitan Police Bureau. The police on duty at these locations, dragged down from upcountry, are demoralised by facing angry protestors accusing them of not loving the King and being turkeys for Thaksin.

RU may offer a hope to poor families for its low fees and open door policy, but the author seems to forget it also offers hope to rich families with dull kids, who despite the virtual "no fail" policy, still feel it necessary to cheat in their exams. One Nong Oak, for example.

Completely of track and untrue.

You attended Uni here ? No I bet not

Of course. Plachon's scurrilous allegation is totally unfounded. Khun Phantongtae transferred to Ram from Thammasat, despite acing the entrance exam and breezing through all exams and coursework, after finding the the TU students a snooty bunch and found Ram students much more akin to his strong egalitarian priniciples. Also the less aggressive speed bumps there were more friendly to his Porsche. In one of his final exams at Ram he had the misfortune to be found by a proctor in possession of a paper indicating answers to exam questions. This matter was cleared up with the rector on a total amicable basis after Phantongtae explained that it was a totally understandable honest mistake, since the crib sheet in fact referenced a different exam paper.

Thai social media was commenting that the company of soldiers from the 11th Infantry Regiment, The King's Guard, is currently based in Hua Hin. If true, it would be strange to bring troops from so far afield to deal with an emergency situation.

A lot of southerners attend RU. Add the stereotype of them being hot blooded and its not really surprising that clashes happened.

The student body must be at least 30% Southerners due to the dire shortage of state universities in the South.

I am continuously amazed that, upon retiring from the U.S., my conservative opponents are well and ensconced in Thailand. When will it be learned...share the wealth more equitably or face continuous societal problems. Yes, different in different countries but it will strain. The Shinawatras and Obama were elected as a result of rebelling against the inequity. The wealth gap has grown too wide.

"The wealth gap has grown too wide."

Probably because Thaksin and his cronies have removed most of the wealth?

The notion of Thaksin rebelling against inequality is hilarious. When he spent a night in a temple in 2008 he even had to bring his own Fendi towel with him.

The fundamental problem with the debates within these forums and within Thai society is the failure to understand that that 'Democracy as recognized in most western countries is just alien to Thailand. It has no history of any meaningful democratic politics.Democracy as perceived by Thais and westerners will not resolve Thailands problems. Taking out the taksin dynasty will help local politics to revert to some sort of stable governance whilst the long term future of Thailand as it is currently constituted evolves as there are a number of elephants in the room that no-one refers to.

Before the 1997 constitution Thai politics was fragmented. Coalition parties crossed the floor at the drop of a hat and no one could expect to stay in power very long which acted as a sort of constraint in itself. The constitution writers saw that as a weakness and deliberately made it difficult for smaller parties to survive. Enter Thaksin who bought up all the provincial parties owned by Chinese godfathers, who also ran the illegal logging and underground lotteries, since they understood that under the new constitution is was better for them to be alligned with one monster party that combined the attributes of the old style provincial Chinese triads with the those of large modern corporations.

Take Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan out of the equation and PT is likely to fragment and go back to being the separate parties or factions under local provincial Chinese triad bosses. Perhaps Thaksin cronies who own large corporations will try to form their own parties. Whatever, removing the concentration of power, money and influence from the hands one amoral individual in Dubai could only be a healthy development.