Dogmatix

I am curious as to how the exclusion of 6 million people works. Less than 4 million pay income tax which starts at 25k per month net of basic deductions. So excluding everyone in the tax net is still short by over 2 million people. So they must be confident there are several million people with extremely low incomes who have over 500,000 in the bank. If this is really true, they should investigate all of them for income tax evasion.

I have seen two of his videos recently and he seems like a BS merchant. He also can't read a word of Thai which puts him at a disadvantage in having to rely on translations of complex Thai legal documents.

Anurak has a positive meaning something like conservation.

The article quotes from varying sources and is suggestive of a work still in progress but also that they have come around to the view that taxing income that arose prior to 1 Jan 2024 may be more trouble than it is worth. Two things spring to mind. 1. If they really intend to make 1 Jan 2024 a start date for something, they will need a Royal Decree. Order P. 161/2566 will need to be rescinded and the lawyers will have pointed out to them it wasn't legally binding on taxpayers anyway. A Royal Decree will need cabinet approval and there may be some differences of opinion in the coalition parties which could change things. Talking about 1 Jan 2024 with any luck will just turn out to be a face saver for the DG of the RD, who seems to have acted like a bit of a nincompoop anyway (albeit no doubt with a nod from finance minister Srettha who was about to hop on the plane to NY at the time) as it would probably be tough to get out a Royal Decree by then and Thailand very rarely makes any law retroactive. 2. Amending the Revenue Code in parliament to introduce global taxation would actually be a more logical step than trying to tax foreign source income on a remittance basis. My guess is that's where we are ultimately headed, either during the term of this government or an MFP government, if they manage to gain power. But it would be a major undertaking and would easily take two years to draft and go through all 3 readings in parliament. They might want to reform other aspects of the law as well. . There are many legit arguments against global taxation or a remittance, as raised by Prof Kittipong, former chairman of Baker McKenzie. In addition there are many corrupt politicians and bureaucrats with wealth offshore who might oppose global taxation or remittance tax. From the macro perspective Thailand has fallen into the middle income trap and has no way to crawl out to become a high income country like Singapore because there is far too much incompetence and corruption in government. Without those two handmaidens Thailand could strive to be a regional finance centre with a liberal tax regime like Singapore, as suggested by Prof Kittipong. But that would require enlightened governance and a commitment to improving public education and doing whatever it takes to make Thailand competitive in this post sweated labour phase and thus fulfill it long term sustainable growth potential which is far higher than the 2-3% GDP growth which is now the best it can do. With faster growth the tax take would increase without raising taxes. As it is, Thais have started to expect a developed country welfare state without first becoming a developed economy. That means raising taxes across the board, including VAT.

An article in yesterday's Prachachart Thurakit suggests the RD is starting to walk this back a bit but not giving up on it https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1432180?fbclid=IwAR0FtCbDVifNc-atDT8uHGklrCLP5PNOva3VrsaHFX9W_kjEm-bKQBnqEKc . It sounds like they are planning to exempt all foreign source income earned before 1 January 2024. It also sounds like they are thinking of moving to a global taxation model involving taxation of foreign source income in the year it arises, regardless of whether it is remitted to Thailand or not. They seem to have realised that that they need to amend the Revenue Code, which could take a couple of years, and not just let the RD issue a directive to staff that is not binding on taxpayers. However, they could still go for a stop gap solution to try to raise some more tax from income earned in 2024. The whole thing smacks of stupidity and incompetence from politicians and civil servants alike. If you want to make major changes to the tax regime, it needs careful study beforehand and then proper legislation in parliament, not just let a bureaucrat blurt out a nonsensical unlawful order and threaten everyone. Huge damage has already been done by that. At least they are likely to give expats more time to make arrangements to sell up and get out of the country. Here is a rough google translate. Stocks-Finance The Revenue Department delays "taxing" foreign income before 2024, adhering to the same criteria. November 9, 2023 - 6:32 a.m. levy taxes The Revenue Department has called in the capital market department to understand the tax collection methods from people who earn money abroad. which when imported must be subject to tax inspection No matter what year it was imported. Previously, imports over a year would not be taxed. After the announcement was made Many parties are still concerned about the lack of clarity. Permanent Secretary of the Treasury insists that loopholes must be closed. Mr. Lawan Saengsanit, Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance, said that the Ministry of Finance has confirmed that there will definitely be taxation of income from foreign countries. The law will be amended to allow collection as soon as the money is received. Only, amending the law must pass through Parliament, so it probably won't be done quickly. But insist that you have to do it. Because it meets international criteria “People who have already paid taxes from abroad need not worry. Because you don't have to pay twice. But you must understand that In the past, there have been large companies that have used this channel to manage taxes. We have to close this gap.” Investors complain about riding elephants to catch grasshoppers. Mr. Anurak Bunsawaeng (Jo Luk Isaan), a major investor and former president of the Value Investors Association (Thailand), said that major investors Should be taxed at the personal income tax rate. The highest rate is 35%. Therefore, I believe that no one will definitely accept being taxed. Therefore, you may see large investors 1. Stop investing abroad. 2. Do not take money back to the country and 3. Use gray methods to find various loopholes, which will make the opportunity for the government to collect a lot of revenue from this tax probably not be possible. “It will definitely create a lot of problems. Because it will cause difficulties for investors. Including in practice through brokers Must collect documents for incoming and outgoing money. To separate profits to prove tax payments each year. which creates a lot of difficulties So it is like riding an elephant to catch grasshoppers. This means that taxes cannot be collected. Because the chance that there will be very few people willing to pay But it creates many negative effects. It's not just big investors. but also private funds or a group of magnates who invest money abroad.” Mr. Anurak said I want the government to change its perspective. Because it's not that investors don't want to pay taxes. But if taxes are collected at a reasonable rate or at the level of 10-15%, it is still acceptable. “Tax collection should require people to act honestly. But if you keep it that high I believe that there will definitely be a lot of corruption. Right now, I mostly invest in China, Vietnam, and the United States, and have prepared several defensive plans.” Begin to charge money from 2024. However, recently there was a report from the Revenue Department that It has been concluded that In the first phase, there will be relief in the case of income generated abroad before 2024, if it is not imported within the same tax year as the year in which the income was generated. It will not have to be checked. Because finding document evidence will be difficult. It is considered to be releasing the ghost. “Income generated before 2024 will use the old rules. That is, if it is not imported in the same tax year. The department will not collect it. As for imports across the year, they are no longer collected according to the original criteria. But income generated abroad from January 1, 2024 onwards, imported at any time will be subject to tax. In the future, Section 41 of the Revenue Code will be amended to immediately calculate tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.” Set "Pichai" to see private offers Special Professor Kitipong Urapeepattanaphong, director of the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) and former chairman of the board of Baker & McKenzie Company Limited, told "Prachachat Turakij" that the collection of such taxes is being developed. Let's discuss in order for the government to postpone enforcement for now Because I believe it's not worth it. It will affect the overall tax picture of Thailand as a whole. It is understood that now Mr. Settha Thavisin, Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, has assigned Mr. Pichai Chunhavajira, Advisor to the Prime Minister. is in charge of this matter “And according to the Revenue Department Order No. 161/2023 that was issued, it is a practice. It cannot be interpreted outside of the law. Therefore, if such taxes are to be collected The tax structure must be restructured. which is a big deal The law must be amended, repealed Section 41, paragraph two, and issued a new law in its place. In the future, taxes will be collected similar to the United States. That is, all income in this world must be taxed. But in general, taxes should not exceed 15%.” The Revenue Department announces income from abroad over the year must be taxed starting 1 Jan. 2024. Revenue Department discusses new order “Income earned from abroad over the year” is subject to tax. Is collecting foreign investment tax worth it? Question from "Kitipong Urapeepattanapong" tax law guru

An article in yesterday's Prachachart Thurakit suggests the RD is starting to walk this back a bit but not giving up on it https://www.prachachat.net/finance/news-1432180?fbclid=IwAR0FtCbDVifNc-atDT8uHGklrCLP5PNOva3VrsaHFX9W_kjEm-bKQBnqEKc . It sounds like they are planning to exempt all foreign source income earned before 1 January 2024. It also sounds like they are thinking of moving to a global taxation model involving taxation of foreign source income in the year it arises, regardless of whether it is remitted to Thailand or not. They seem to have realised that that they need to amend the Revenue Code, which could take a couple of years, and not just let the RD issue a directive to staff that is not binding on taxpayers. However, they could still go for a stop gap solution to try to raise some more tax from income earned in 2024. The whole thing smacks of stupidity and incompetence from politicians and civil servants alike. If you want to make major changes to the tax regime, it needs careful study beforehand and then proper legislation in parliament, not just let a bureaucrat blurt out a nonsensical unlawful order and threaten everyone. Huge damage has already been done by that. At least they are likely to give expats more time to make arrangements to sell up and get out of the country. Here is a rough google translate. Stocks-Finance The Revenue Department delays "taxing" foreign income before 2024, adhering to the same criteria. November 9, 2023 - 6:32 a.m. levy taxes The Revenue Department has called in the capital market department to understand the tax collection methods from people who earn money abroad. which when imported must be subject to tax inspection No matter what year it was imported. Previously, imports over a year would not be taxed. After the announcement was made Many parties are still concerned about the lack of clarity. Permanent Secretary of the Treasury insists that loopholes must be closed. Mr. Lawan Saengsanit, Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance, said that the Ministry of Finance has confirmed that there will definitely be taxation of income from foreign countries. The law will be amended to allow collection as soon as the money is received. Only, amending the law must pass through Parliament, so it probably won't be done quickly. But insist that you have to do it. Because it meets international criteria “People who have already paid taxes from abroad need not worry. Because you don't have to pay twice. But you must understand that In the past, there have been large companies that have used this channel to manage taxes. We have to close this gap.” Investors complain about riding elephants to catch grasshoppers. Mr. Anurak Bunsawaeng (Jo Luk Isaan), a major investor and former president of the Value Investors Association (Thailand), said that major investors Should be taxed at the personal income tax rate. The highest rate is 35%. Therefore, I believe that no one will definitely accept being taxed. Therefore, you may see large investors 1. Stop investing abroad. 2. Do not take money back to the country and 3. Use gray methods to find various loopholes, which will make the opportunity for the government to collect a lot of revenue from this tax probably not be possible. “It will definitely create a lot of problems. Because it will cause difficulties for investors. Including in practice through brokers Must collect documents for incoming and outgoing money. To separate profits to prove tax payments each year. which creates a lot of difficulties So it is like riding an elephant to catch grasshoppers. This means that taxes cannot be collected. Because the chance that there will be very few people willing to pay But it creates many negative effects. It's not just big investors. but also private funds or a group of magnates who invest money abroad.” Mr. Anurak said I want the government to change its perspective. Because it's not that investors don't want to pay taxes. But if taxes are collected at a reasonable rate or at the level of 10-15%, it is still acceptable. “Tax collection should require people to act honestly. But if you keep it that high I believe that there will definitely be a lot of corruption. Right now, I mostly invest in China, Vietnam, and the United States, and have prepared several defensive plans.” Begin to charge money from 2024. However, recently there was a report from the Revenue Department that It has been concluded that In the first phase, there will be relief in the case of income generated abroad before 2024, if it is not imported within the same tax year as the year in which the income was generated. It will not have to be checked. Because finding document evidence will be difficult. It is considered to be releasing the ghost. “Income generated before 2024 will use the old rules. That is, if it is not imported in the same tax year. The department will not collect it. As for imports across the year, they are no longer collected according to the original criteria. But income generated abroad from January 1, 2024 onwards, imported at any time will be subject to tax. In the future, Section 41 of the Revenue Code will be amended to immediately calculate tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.” Set "Pichai" to see private offers Special Professor Kitipong Urapeepattanaphong, director of the Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) and former chairman of the board of Baker & McKenzie Company Limited, told "Prachachat Turakij" that the collection of such taxes is being developed. Let's discuss in order for the government to postpone enforcement for now Because I believe it's not worth it. It will affect the overall tax picture of Thailand as a whole. It is understood that now Mr. Settha Thavisin, Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, has assigned Mr. Pichai Chunhavajira, Advisor to the Prime Minister. is in charge of this matter “And according to the Revenue Department Order No. 161/2023 that was issued, it is a practice. It cannot be interpreted outside of the law. Therefore, if such taxes are to be collected The tax structure must be restructured. which is a big deal The law must be amended, repealed Section 41, paragraph two, and issued a new law in its place. In the future, taxes will be collected similar to the United States. That is, all income in this world must be taxed. But in general, taxes should not exceed 15%.” The Revenue Department announces income from abroad over the year must be taxed starting 1 Jan. 2024. Revenue Department discusses new order “Income earned from abroad over the year” is subject to tax. Is collecting foreign investment tax worth it? Question from "Kitipong Urapeepattanapong" tax law guru

There are so many notable achievements it will be difficult to narrow down the list. Let's give it a try anyway. 1. Stealing the election. 2. Bringing back the PT party owner, a convicted criminal. 3. Miscalculating the cost of the digital wallet. 4. Seizing large quantities of BB guns that were lawfully imported in order to keep chinese tourists safe from BB guns. 5. Giving visa free travel to Kazakh tourists. 6. Reviving the land bridge project for the Nth time. I could go on but....

I wonder if there are any Thais fighting for Hamas. There were definitely Thais with Isis.

Israeli citizens residing overseas are legally liable to military service in Israel, even if they have lived all their lives outside Israel with another citizenship. But in practice they can get deferment, if they don't go to live in Israel before they are 28 or so. Obviously they can't force a Thai-Israeli male living in Thailand who has to attend the draft board in Thailand to travel to Israel to be drafted there as well. But there are some who choose to go to Israel and join up. Also, of course, Thai-Israelis living in Israel have to do military service. So no doubt there are Thai-Israelis of both categories in the Israeli army. Can't imagine them recruiting Thai mercenaries or wanting anyone trained by the Thai military though.

I agree totally but I think it is inevitable that someone will bite the bullet in the not too distant future and let VAT revert to 10%. Other ways of funding the digital wallet will also impact the poor indirectly. Borrowing to fund it is not free and has an impact, particularly with govt debt already over 60% of GDP. Cutting other welfare schemes impacts those poor citizens who get cut, eg those turning 60 who are not going to get the old age allowance. Disingenuously allowing it to partially fund itself through incremental VAT receipts, assuming a 3x multiplier effect when a multiplier of less than 1 is more likely will also result in more govt debt to plug the shortfall. Basically it is bad project because there is no good way to fund it and it will generate a much lower multiplier effect than claimed by the government.

Not that important to the topic but I was trying to refute the traditional dual pricing justification that Thais deserve lower prices because the pay taxes that go towards maintenance of these venues. A Thai earning 15k a month, if he spends all of that, pays 12,600 a year in VAT. Most Thais don't pay income but do pay VAT. Foreign tourists don't pay Thai income tax but also pay VAT while in Thailand and some may pay more than the average Thai.

That is absolutely right but it is very easy to do, hard to avoid and is a very efficient way of increasing the tax take. The current 2 year waiver of the official VAT rate of 10% expires in September 2024. No legislation is required. Just do nothing and VAT is back to 10%, raising about 250 billion which would be enough to pay for a cut back digital wallet.

I thought that was exactly what the topic was about. The tax is aimed mainly at Thais and the PM said it is to improve equality.,

The work force is reported by the NESDB at 40 million but that includes legal foreign workers. An article from May 2023 in a source that I cannot link here about targets for tax reform quoted an RD source as saying around 11 million people filed tax returns, of whom around 4 million paid tax. That includes filings and tax paid via PND 90 and PND 91 tax return forms. PND 90 is for anyone who has income other than or in addition to income from employment subject to withholding tax, including sole proprietorships like your wife doing business in their personal name with no corporate or registered partnership structure. That means that most of the tax returns filed were from people who didn't have to pay tax because their income was too low (which may include a lot of sole proprietors whose deductions took them out of the tax net) and salaried employees seeing refunds of withholding tax.

They point out that 3 out 4 workers fall outside the personal income tax system, as only 10.8 million filed tax return forms out of a workforce of 40 million. AFAIK it is considerably worse than that, as the last number of reported income tax payers was only 3.3 million. I believe the explanation for the variance is the salary withholding tax system. Employers have to deduct tax based on the basic personal allowances and on the assumption the employee will remain in employment for the whole year earning the same wage. That appears to mean that most of the people filing tax returns are applying for tax refunds. If you were just over the minimum salary to have withholding tax deducted but had a number of additional allowances like for parents and kids, you need to file a tax return to get a refund of the tax withheld. Similarly if you worked for for the first six months of the tax year, then became unemployed for the rest of the year, your withholding tax will be way too much. The main problem is that Thai wages are extremely low and probably only about 1 million earn more than 50k a month. That means that one of the suggested solutions of toughening up the progressive rates (which were up to 60% in the late 80s) will be ineffective in raising significantly more revenue, since the number of people declaring over 5 million a year must be tiny. However, increasing the top rate to more than 35% would make the reinterpretation more odious than it is already. Longer term they have to improve competitiveness and productivity, which have long been eroded by incompetent and corrupt governments ignoring key contributors like education, and get GDP per capita up significantly. Short term the are going to have to raise VAT.

I was flying into Bangkok from overseas somewhere some years ago and there was a well dressed African guy sitting next to me who asked me to help fill in his landing card. He could only speak French and his passport only had the year in it like the OP's wife. He asked me how to fill in his DOB. So I said, if you only have the year, fill that in and he did. He explained his situation was similar to the OP's wife. He was born in a village and his birth was registered retrospectively and no one remembered his birth date. I guess no problem landing in Thailand, as there are many similar cases, including hill tribe villages where government officials assigned everyone a birth date of 1 January. Lucky he wasn't going to an anally retentive country like Australia.

You must be a handsome old dog!

I wonder if a Thai court would convict for this. The defence will be saying what a slut she was taking a complete stranger she met on Tinder back to her condo which may only have one room at 2.00 am after having drinks with him. What she claims she told him she wouldn't have sex with him as she had to work in the morning which implied she wanted to have sex with him on a future occasion and probably wouldn't mind, if they did it then anyway. It was already 2.00 am. So she should have just told him she couldn't take him back because she had to work in the working. Call me for the return match when I don't have to work in the morning. Goodnight. If the guy says it was consentful or that he didn't do anything, the court may believe him. It is also possible that she asked him for money to help pay the rent or something and he did a wham bam and thank you mam. If she has a job in Thailand, I sure hope it isn't teaching young children.

One would think that in the interests of investment in the Thai economy, they might want to give an exempt for remittance of capital that is invested in property, stocks or bonds and held for at least 5 years or something. But they are probably too bone headed to think of that.

I doubt it. The exemption given to LTR visa holders was from the last government and was probably only approved because they didn't think they were giving much away, given that wealthy LTR holders could be assumed to be not living from hand to mouth and could remit only previous year income. So it was probably though of as just a convenience to LTR visa holders, not having to wait to remit their income.

Interesting that they decided to exempt some types of investment income but not others. Anyway a Royal Decree is not an Act of Parliament. All that is needed to amend or cancel a Royal Decree is another Royal Decree.

This comment from "The Legal" fails to properly attribute the source it extracted this information from. I suspect it is the original Q&A from the RD which said this announcement is not lawful but you should follow it anyway and gave very little clarification beyond that paradoxical statement. You can get a much better idea from a google translation of the complete original than from the selective commentary of "The Legal" whoever that may be. RD Order 161 2566 Q&A TH.pdf

But only 3.3 million out of 70 million Thais pay income tax. Granted all pay VAT but many foreign tourists pay more VAT during their trips than the average Thai does in a year. The taxation argument doesn't hold water.

This was a rather pointless video. Just saying that paying Thai tax on only $100,000 out of your income of $1 million is a good deal because it is only an effective tax rate of 2% is not helpful to most people here, who actually live in Thailand and don't have $1 million a year. I wasted over 10 minutes watching this garbage to see, if he had anything useful to say to but he didn't.

I have a Danish friend on Danish government pension who also received a similar summons from the RD but they asked him to bring all documentation relating to his pension and tax paid on it. Perhaps they made a reciprocal agreement with the Danes on this or the Danes just volunteered stuff on their citizens in Thailand out of sheer bloody mindedness. I wonder, if this signifies the future. Anyone who received foreign remittances will get called in and they will have print outs of CRS reports on all their foreign bank accounts to cross reference with what the tax resident shows them.