sdshaman

well I dont know where this will end but you all have to agree, with this many pages so quick the op might be trying out for post of the year and to just get in early, if he comes back with his "daddy" talk results this could go ballistic............

Here is daddy talk... Nothing went right for them. I said I needed time with her to make relationship happen and it cannot be about money. She said OK pay for trip to sea and family can all go... I said that is exactally what I am not going to do. I got ring back and money offered back. I also have her texting me to keep relationship going now. Obvious pressure from family to save their retirement fund. I told her we could talk and come to agreemet but relationship cannot be about money. Her reply... ok buy me gold and I will take off work tomorrow... hmmm... I have 20k in my pocket, I wonder what we should do tomorrow??

Read the Forums. You will find many successes. But then ask yourself why there are even a greater number of failures. Expectations are high. It is probably not in the majority cases where your money will be returned to you. Figure it gone/investment for a younger, well to do wife. In your case, they seem to be a struggling family. You are looking for love. Just once, be alone with her. Look straight into her eyes and muster all the testosterone you have left in your body. Tell her you can see your own unborn children in her beautiful eyes. Do not look away. You will know the truth. Not the best of them can match a man flooded with testosterone that wants to impregnate her with just his eyes. She may back down, but at least you know. Do what the kids do. Sneak her out to the hotel and give her something she has hopefully never had done right before. I am talking about consensual...not forcing her...but seducing her.

I just broke engagement, got ring back and she offered money back. Question is not about sincerity anymore, only about can she be what I want in a woman? I will try your suggestion since she is now texting me to come back to her... Wnat to hear something funny. I tell her I do not want a relationship that is about money and she says OK lets have relationship... come buy me gold and I will hang out with you... WT does she not understand about what I say? Is this Thai mother programming loop?

You met her on an Internet dating site looking for an expat. Do you really need ask yourself what she was doing there? She already found what she was looking for; 5 million baht for her companionship to give to her family, and she may well grow to love you but she was hunting for a rich husband and here you are.

Although it may sound fun at first, what are you going to do hanging around a bunch of teenagers if you go and spend time with her and her friends? Get over this crush of yours, get as much money and gold back as you can cuz it sounds like you work hard for it, and stop looking for love in all the wrong places.

She does not have friends, only family. Works all the time. I actually have some of the gold back now after talking to father this morning and she offered to pay me back however much of the sin sod I want back. The question now is not sincerity, it is can she be what I need. She is trying right now to get me to come back...

Most Thai girls are driven by a desire to help and support their parents, this help includes marrying for money. But just because they do marry for money doesn't mean to say the relationship they enter into isn't a strong and loving one that will endure. The cynics will be along shortly to tell us that the issues of love and money shouldn't be mixed, regrettably it is so here in Thailand and it's part of the culture in many families so you may as well accept that.

So really all that leaves is the question of your feelings and how much, as you are finding out the amount is negotiable and you can't really fault them for starting with a high number, what you finish with is another story however. The option of course is to say it's all nonsense, in which case your relationship is likely over and you will have to walk away, the choice is yours. From experience the engagement party is not common and the exchange of rings sounds like a cross between old Thai and modern farang cultures, bless them! It sounds to me like you had an engagement party and not a wedding, you would almost certainly know if it was the latter.

Yes she is driven by the desire to support her parents. At our second talk about dowry it was just me and her mom. She said that she didn't think I was stable enough to take care of her and I walked away... maybe should have kept going. The next day her dad called and wanted to have breakfast like we did every day before. He said they liked me and the dowry was up to me. I see her mom always on facebk with over 3000 friends so I know she is concerned about gossip.

I think the engagement was what it was because I am a good guy and only here for a short time and they do not want to loose me (or my ATM) . I did feel pressured into it, but that is the past now. She wanted me to have a ring since I will soon leave for 7-8 month to travel and work. She always tells me I better not take it off. I think that they are sincere, but this practice is still shady! It was announced as an engagement, with no monk. The string tying thing at her grandparents is what threw me for a loop. I thought that was for marry??

Is all of this discussion (mother, father etc.) occuring in English?

She speaks ok english, father speaks better english, mother not ! lol

deleted post until we know this guy is not a troll.

You accuse me of being a troll... what would you like to know to prove other?

I don't think anyone told you that OP means Original Poster ... ie YOU

Additionally if your fiancee has the baby at age 13 (very common out there) her body would bounce back very fast and have no stretch marks or other signs.

The guy who recommended a lawyer and yourself for thinking that is a good idea don't really have much fore thought .... what good would that do? Allow you to write up a better dowry contract or something?

As I said before hire a professional investigator and mate if I am not right I will pay the bill for you! Also as some said do some investigative work yourself ... new online account ... ask to see her computer phone etc ... be honest say that because from all your recent research that everyone says that she will have other bfs on the go and you want to prove that wrong..... she wont give you access though. Why? because there will be evidence of this.

I agree AZNs can lie better than farang ... face is their nature!

I actually did this and watch her site I found her on whenever we are not together and she is never logged in. Yes you are right an investigator is a much better idea.

exactaly! that is why I post here because I want to make sure I am not doing wrong. Real peoples opinion that know more than me is greatly appriciated!

You posted this at 3 am Thailand time ...... are you really in Thailand?

If you don't listen to our well seasoned advice you aren't for real man ......

edit: an admin should check his ip address!

whatever bro 118.172.43.82

I am listening to advice. That is why I am on here

Hi Mate. You never said how old you are and how old your GF.

Dowry is for marriage not heard of it for engagement, possibly a deposit before the you marry, 100k is the norm and a piece of gold.

I am married and my wife has 16yr old daughter who I consider my daughter, she loves me very much. She has boy friend 19 we just had his family around to negotiate the dowry I stay out of it but my wife keep coming out to tell and ask me what I think. My daughter is young, virgin and a beauty B/F family love her and want her in family. I told my wife to go for 500k they start at 50k then up it to 100k plus 1bt neck chain, then my wife wants me to come in and sit with her and daughter so I do. My wife translates for me I tell them this is not a pathname market thing they are getting a good educated young lady so I say 350k they up it to 150k I come in with 300k they come back with 200k so I give a good talk and say last price is 250k they go for it so smiles all around my daughter puts arm around me. The B/F mother comes with the necklace for the deposit hand shakes all around and it is done so all good, they are going to Finnish school before the marriage.

You will need to talk with your lady mate and make some of the rules, best of luck

It was kind of like a deposit I guess, but they never said a final price. Said it was up to me. There was a baht of gold in the form of necklace and ring for her, and she inststed I wear a ring also (and never take it off) She is 19 and I am late 30's. I thought she was older when we were just on internet. Part of the problem is when I try and talk with her I do not get answers, she says she is bored and not want problem every day. I say so answer my question and I won't ask every day. Mostly about spending time together to grow relationship. It is like one of the other posts stated. Own agenda, my thoughts mean nothing. I told her we should just talk so we understand each other better. She says I am me what else is there to understand. Then she say what you want to talk about. like broken tape recorder.

then again maybe her parents are the ones setting this up and the daughter is only doing what they tell her too, she may simply not want to be with an old(er) man but her parents are forcing her to do it for their benefit, would be a lot more plausable. The fact that money is more important than feelings to her makes it very possible, mate, I would be telling dad tomorrow that you are not prepared to pay out all the money required when you do not spend time together alone, you are engaged and that should be enough to do so. Could well be she is scared you will find out she is not the virginal person she is making herself out to be, to late when your married and they have your money.

yes this is exactally how I feel. She is always scared to tell me things that are turn points. The other night when we got back from her grandparents was a big one. She was upset ans didn't want to make them sad because they had good feel for me. On the way home everyone was laughing and she was holding me and I fell asleep only to wake up to serious talk and her feeling distant. She did tell me not to email about her crying. Her mom obviously screens all the emails. that would all make sense with what you said

To sdshaman ... mate, I get a bit confused sometimes, I'm getting older.

You are still in Thailand correct?

I'm not at the moment ... what time is it in Thailand now?

I always get the time adjustment wrong.

Thanks in Advance ...

Yes and it is 3am

Great ... thanks for that.

I was going to ring my girl, but I didn't want to wake her up.

Hey ... BTW ... 3am ... WOW ... can't sleep?

I'd thought you'd be sleeping ready for your day later in the morning.

Doesn't your girlfriend get Sunday off so you can have fun together?

Oh, if it's not too personal ... do you sleep with your lady now (I don't mean the sex thing) ... just share a room together? In the Family house?

No I am staying at a hotel close to their shop.

No they work 7 days a week, 10-12 hours a day. She will not let her mom work alone because she says she worries about her if we go in the day. But before we got engaged we went places evry day. That is why it sounds weird. Now she is reluctant to go even after work, where before we would go some place evry night with family

To sdshaman ... mate, I get a bit confused sometimes, I'm getting older.

You are still in Thailand correct?

I'm not at the moment ... what time is it in Thailand now?

I always get the time adjustment wrong.

Thanks in Advance ...

Yes and it is 3am

and of course I cannot sleep because I do not want to do wrong to her if this is really sincere

If she had so much time for you online previously, why no time now due to work etc?

She has time, but only at her shop? not go anywhere and do anything. not even after work. Always excuse like take care of sister, duty etc. Today she said she would, and tonight I kind of blew my chance because maybe she wanted to go to dinner just me and her but her mom was there and I didn't want to take her to. But before that she kept telling me that we could talk at her shop after work because she is tired etc. She not make effort to go do anything. She told me that we could go to the sea together in 10 days, if I pay for trip for family. I say we can't do anything before then? I work, I have duty, I take care sister..... If relationship was about other than money I feel she would make more effort

Trip for family to the seaside,so that they can all cockblock you there as well at your expense?

Seriously guy,I think it's time you punched the Mother straight in the face and told this POS where to go!

exactaly! that is why I post here because I want to make sure I am not doing wrong. Real peoples opinion that know more than me is greatly appriciated!

If you spent some of your internet time researching Thailand Culture BEFORE you decided to go on a social network site to meet your Bride, you may have found yourself in a different position ..... Look before you leap !! .... ... CHOKDEE ... Now over to the synpathisers .....

Thanks for the wasted and arrogant answer that he staed he could do without. I had no experience like this guy did so you never know what to expect. You can't read about every experience you may run into.

Plus he isn't looking for sympathizeres. He is looking for information, something you failed to read. Ironic.

Thanks for your support. I did read and looked to Thailand because of peoples wonderful experience. I really thought that this girl and her family were sincere. I just hope I am not over reading the money thing and now hurting her sincere feelings with my doubt. She was crying before I contacted her tonight after she went to dinner. I saw her in her shop and called her. That makes me feel bad, but at the same time there seams to be no concern for my feelings that we are never alone together. That was a big reason we did it. "so we can go everywhere together and it not matter what people think"

If she had so much time for you online previously, why no time now due to work etc?

She has time, but only at her shop? not go anywhere and do anything. not even after work. Always excuse like take care of sister, duty etc. Today she said she would, and tonight I kind of blew my chance because maybe she wanted to go to dinner just me and her but her mom was there and I didn't want to take her to. But before that she kept telling me that we could talk at her shop after work because she is tired etc. She not make effort to go do anything. She told me that we could go to the sea together in 10 days, if I pay for trip for family. I say we can't do anything before then? I work, I have duty, I take care sister..... If relationship was about other than money I feel she would make more effort

I believe that anything you say or tell the Thai family about expectations, your situatation et al, just blows by them, they have their agenda and that's it, good or bad.

this is 100 % correct.

OP needs to check her ID. She says she is 19. This is 2557 which implies she was born in 2538 or maybe 2537. It's on the ID.

OP also needs to wise up big time. He is in Asia not USA. It's very different here.

When money becomes the primary objective and not love, it is time to learn an expensive or cheap lesson (depends on your point of view) and move along rapidly.

There are lots of inconsistencies in this story, too numerous to mention. It has all the hallmarks of a scam ---- a Thai woman who speaks English on the internet ???????

her id does say she is 19. she thought that i would be upset at this thinking she was older. i actualy did think she was older before we met. she thought this would be a problem. she can read english better than she can speak or understand it. her father speaks a little better. I just hope i am not hurting a sincere persons feeling now.

it`s string around the wrists, chains around the ankles,lol, walk now very quickly, or really try to do it without to much money involved and see if she still likes you,lol, make up an excuse saying you cannot access your money and see if she says don't worry, only suggestions, but you may be lucky, but could cost you dearly also.

I actually did this 2 days ago. told her I couldn't access my money. She didn't really say anything but got a little upset. Tonight she wanted to go to dinner and she may have just been talking about me and her but her mom was there and I didn't want to get into buying dinner for everyone one so I told her I had to save for dowry. She told me to go find rice then and left with her mother. I hope she wasn't planning on just us going to dinner??? but when I go with her mom she just orders and orders. I think that everyone is done eating and food keeps coming...lol oh well, she said she would contact me when she was done.

For you to turn up with your credit card and pay the bill?

Right! She was sad and crying that I wasn't being sincere with her like I had been in the past. I try and tell her that I expect her to spend quality time with me without parents around. She has lame excuses like she is tired, has work to do, has duty to do, has to take care of her sister. But we can talk at the shop with her mom that is always interjecting. I just hope I am not hurting a sincere persons feelings.

Not worth responding to, as there's no 'ring of truth' to it..or, if it really is true, the op is beyond assistance.

Sorry buddy but it is true. And my talk with her father tomorrow will reveal their truth or not. All I am asking for is advice on tradition and other peoples experience so I have fuel for the talk. Sorry if you don't believe. I have other life stories way beyond this one! Got a minute?? lol Actually if you do have anything worth posting I would appreciate because all these posts are helping the situation. I just hope I didn't just hurt a real persons feeling by maybe overthinking the situation!

First off, please excuse my English. It is not my first language.

My Background and why I feel I can give my 2 cents worth in this thread.

-I have been in two longer term relationships with two Thai girls. ( over 5 years with each)

- First one was a "good" girl from a middle class background, university student, etc. ( divorced after 6 yrs)

-second (current one) is a bar girl whom I met at one of Bkk s red light district. ( living together happily for 6 years)

I have seen and experienced relationship from two completely different perspective while both with Thai girls.

So here's my two cents:

-first off, a Thai girl looking for a relationship online could be considered a warning sign. Most Thai girls have dreams of marrying their "Thai" prince in shining armor as a result of watching daily soaps. I am sure you have seen these shows on Thai TV. All the plots are similar, poor girl , meets rich, handsome Thai guy, gets abused by some rich girl who have evil parents who wants her to marry the rich guy. etc. My point is there is rarely any plot where a poor Thai girl marries some foreigner. So the question is what are the reasons for her looking online? The real reasons, more often than not are that "Thai men butterfly", " Thai men poor" , " Thai men no take care family".. In my opinion , what is means is she have had relationship at a younger age with a few Thai losers. But she says no relationship in the past, but has the courage to directly post an ad on some dating site to meet foreign men ( most innocent Thai girls I know are scare to death of foreigners), hmm.. seems a bit fishy. Don't be fooled by the innocent look.

"They also have a small daughter that is maybe 6-7" - verify that it is not your girlfriend's daughter. I have seen to many cases where the younger sister/brother is actually the girl's kid.

-on the topic of dowry:

When Herbert Simon ( real estate billionaire) married Miss Universe, Porntip, his dowry was 10million usd, but he is worth a billion plus and in his 70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Simon_(real_estate)

In comparison, when a poor Issan farmer friend got married. He promised 30k baht to bride's parent, was able to come up with 10K baht on the day of the wedding. He gave the bride's parent a IOU for 20k baht . It was been 10 yrs and he hasnt paid it off.

In the news, you will often hear of Thai actresses getting dowry 's of millions of baht.

"2 days later while we were sitting in my hotel room she coughs out 5 million Baht"- From a Thai guy's perspective about this amount. 1. he ( the guy) is well off and can easily afford it. 2. the girl is a virgin 3. the girl is a university graduate 4. the girl family have connections/status in Thai society . If these dont apply, well it's a case of the pop's saying to this daughter , " throw out a large number and see if he bites".

Conclusion on dowry: "Face" is everything in Thailand. The more the better, but loves conquer all. Many cases of girls running away with their BF cause he cant afford the dowry. Only to show up a few years later with a kid or two in tow. There have been Thai songs written about these cases.

My advice: Go home or if you are already home good. Do a test, call your girl up and say that you have lost your job. Make up a good reason, like your company was sold or something. Does she love you? or your money when she thinks you won't have any? How is her reaction when u're down?

"2 hours later we arrive back at moms shop. Mom is upset and leaves. A starts crying. I ask her whats wrong. She asks what do you think of me? She says that there is gossip and people think we already sleep together so we cannot go out together anymore. So we only hang out at shop and with her parents after they finish work." - how old is your girlfriend? I only have had this type of experiences when I was much younger and dated girls in their teens. If she have had Thai BFs in the past and over 22 , this seems like a plot to get you to expedite the engagement and get some money to them.

"2000 Baht zoo ticket payment to make"- Sorry friend, if you're complaining about 2000b wait till you get the call from the in-laws about a leaky roof ,etc. It is customary , for the more well off person in the group to pay for everyone, Thai or foreigner. It is about "face" again.

"The engagement we had, does that follow any tradition?" yes, especially if they are chinese-Thai. There is normally an engagement party to make it known that she is spoken for.

" What I read says not really. Me having an engagement ring... is that tradition? yes, but any cheap engagement brand will do. You're expect to get a nice diamond ring for her for the wedding.

The dowry I paid, is dowry for engagement or wedding? according to her father, he wants more.

Did we just have a wedding ceremony or was it just an engagement? ans: engagement only according to her father, right? In my personally experience, no money is exchanged at the engagement, when I got married to my ex. But I have seen wealthy Thai do the engagement money. f

My final advice: This family was getting along just fine before you show up. Yes, once their daughter is gone from the house and business, they will need to find someone to replace her roles. That person is worth 15k-20K baht max in CM. If she ( your sweetly) loves you, in all fairness for her and her family I would send the in-laws 20k per month, so they can afford to hire someone. Most likely they will find some Burmese girl at 9k per month to help out.

Keep in mind, that keeping her around costs the family money, if she doesn't work outside the home. She has to eat, buy clothing, pay for internet, cell phone money, etc. So in a sense, you marrying their daughter is a financial relief for the family.

Lust and love beware of these feelings- before you make a serious commitment double check. I have seen/ heard of all types of scams related to foreign men and Thai women that I can fill a 500 page novel so beware. I can tell you're having doubts and second thoughts. you should go hire a PI to track her background.

-What is she doing while you're back home slaving away at your 9-5? She is going out with her " Thai brother"?

-Check other dating sites, did she post their too? If she did, as a friend to contact her and see if she says to him " sorry, I am enaged to someone" or does she flirts with him. If the later, run for the hills and call it a lost but lesson learned. If she is a good girl, you'll be able to find out.

-If you have a male friend coming to Thailand, have him stop by their business to inquiry about whatever they are selling. He can be you spy.

Hope this all help I spent a hr typing this, as am super slow on the keyboard.

Remember it only gets worse. My ex was a total sweet-heart when we first meet , her parents didnt want anything. it was all " up to me". But after we got married, slowly it was this and that. In the end, they soaked me for a bundle. <sligh> lesson learned. What I am trying to get at is expect this to continued.. it only get worse..Soon, you will be living together, where you will pay for everything and the money she makes goes to the family, etc. Small annoyances, but nonetheless. After years of this and that, it will have it's toll on you. What you do now, establishes the ground rules and lays the foundation of your future with your little Thai sweetie.

<editted to give happier side of Thai girl relationship>

Sometimes you can luck out like I did in my second relationship with a Thai girl. I met her shortly after my divorce at a red light district establishment. She is a poor Issan farmer's daughter, who only wanted a better life and to go to school. But after trying the 300B per day at a "regular" shop, it wasnt enough. So long story short, she is getting her PHD soon. haha no dowry , no expectations from anyone. She knows my deal with the ex and doesnt expect anything. I paid for her education. I was a poor farmer and never got the opportunity for an education, so seeing her excelled was like a check on my life's checklist.

She takes care of everything around the house , has been a great companion and friend. Oh, her family are happy with whatever and never asks for anything. I do send gifts for New Years and help out, whenever I have a compassionate heart. So I lucked out, and you can too!

GL.

PS. if you read to here, thanks for the effort. I know my writing is terrible. And you deserve a .

Reference: Private dancer is a sick ( in a good way) about the real goings of a Thai bar girl. It doesnt apply to your situation though, but a good read .

Thanks for the post!

Not her kid. I have seen pictures of the family. I really think they are sincere... but want money because they think that they deserve it??

1. They think that since I am a film producer that I have unlimited funds I am sure

2. She has never had a bf before. I know some find that hard to believe but being around this girl (and knowing actors) she could not fake her innosence.

3. Not graduate of college but only high school and well recognized for may merits.

4. I wouldn't say huge status but they have a small business that stays pretty busy.

I cut off the funds a few days ago and tonight she is ready to void the engagement because I didn't pay all the money yet. Now I can see her point because I didn't make it perfect. I was sapposed to the other day and tod her I would but became suspicious because since we got engaged we have not spent any time together, which was the point of getting engaged. So we could go everywhere together and not make her look like a slut. Still I held to that she would have to show me that this relationship is not just about money. Tat we would have to spend some quality time together. Her excuse not to is: she works all day and cannot leave her mom to do all the work because she has beriberi (but is very overweight??). So I ask why she cannot after work. She says OK, some times with family sometimes alone. The mom says something in Thai that I do not understand and her tone changes and she will go with me to get the money I owe to sin sod. So tonight I kind of blew it because she was planning on us going to dinner together and I didn't want hungry mom eating my wallet. I said something a little rude and she got very offended and left on moms scooter. to go eat without me, told me to go find some rice. When she got back I called her and she was very upset, which I feel bad for bacause maybe I am wrong about this whole thing. She asked why I wasn't sincere with her. I told her that all I wanted was her to make an effort to spend time with me alone. She said she has to work ,she has duty, she has to take care of her sister. I tell her that the only reason I have not paid the last 20k is because she won't spend time with me. She says tat she will but only at the shop. I tell her that is not how you build a relationship.She says she thinks that I cannot take care of her. Anyway to make a long story continue... I told her to tell her father what she keeps saying I do not understand and I will talk to him in the morning.

She is 19 and yes it did feel like a plot, but I could see her moms point because all the customers were eyeing me over and when we were not there you know how women can gossip.

The other thing is she is not willing to leave her family or moms shop. I ask her then why am I expected to pay sin sod if you are not being replaced. She says to take care of family.

Actually it would cost them more if she wasn't around because she does a majority of the work around their shop.

She works 12 hours a day with her mom. then takes care of her sister. She has no other life. That is part of the problem is she thinks that us being together at the shop is quality time because that is all she knows.

I really do think that I am overthinking this and that I may have already hurt her feelings beyond repair and I feel bad about that. But she has no concern for me coming this far and her not making an effort to hang out with just me, She doesn't see the need for it.

Tomorrow I will know when I talk to her father. She did mention tonight that she wanted to void the engagement and give me back the ring I bought her. Is that a jesture of her sincerity?? actually giving the ring back to me?? I wasn't expecting that. Now I wonder if I just blew something that could have been good over a few bucks??

ok if you are a troll you have a lot of time on your hands (as do I)

These (above) are all games my friends, they sound word perfect to when I was screwed over. Thai's are great gamblers and being around actors doesn't mean shit, were they Thai actors? you wont be able to see this act as you are young to the people and country.

Take the ring back and say okay we will just be friends and take it from there. Sounds like a headache situation anyway.

Set up a fake account on-line to catch here out. Travel the country for a few months and try and forget about her. Go sleep with ten women and give it 1 year, if you keep going back to A then maybe there's something there...but really this sounds like a total car crash, so much so it sounds like a joke

Not a troll, This is real I have a lot of tie on my hands because she won't spend it with me. Although I was a bit of an ass tonight when she had plans for us to have dinner. Regardless ,it is that "word perfect" you talk about that I kept seeing when I was looking at dowry scams that made me start this thread. Even the ammounts. 5 mil (pocket change for an american) 15k monthly ( 2 or 3 of these and they are set) these number I saw on other posts. Thanks for you suggestions

To the OP.

The fact that this is the first time you have met her in person and there is talk about marriage and money should ring alarm bells. If I were you, I would finish the rest of your vacation as a tourist in other parts of Thailand, with or without her.

Yes I know... but we just wanted to secure our relationship because I cannot return from work for 8 months. Good people are not that easy to find, at least I think they are good and mean well. BUt with holding money has brought this to a boiling point. Now she thinks I am not sincere and cannot take care of her. From a normal perspective this would look like what everyone thinks it is. But she talked about sincerity and me not paying more is kind of unsincere on my part because I didn't give what I promised... I may have hurt a real persons feelings and I feel bad if that is the case. Tomorrow I talk with her father and hopefully work out this situation one way or anohter. The reason for this post is to give me thoughts and ideas as ammo for this meeting. Real or not I am going to tell him how much of a scam it looks like from an outsiders perspective. Maybe have him read some of these posts so he understands where I am coming from. Her by herself is caring and sweet. When she gets around mom the relationship turns to money. Her father does not want me to go because basically Me coming into the family will let him quit his job and I do not have a problem with that. I will update this thread when we have our talk. Thanks for helping me with your thoughts.

Would you marry a 19 year old in your home country? What a headache, what would you talk about? how would you relate?

...hold on...

I have decided this is a troll

This guy can't be for real?! no one is this daft...11 pages

bye

Nope, not a troll! this is a for real situation! We talk about a lot of things actually. That is until I came here. Now if I say I want to talk it has to be about something specific. Like if I want to talk she thinks there is a problem. I tell her we just need to talk, have dialog, what is a dream in your life.... wait maybe you are right about what would we talk about... On skype it was easy even when we opened cam and talked. We related well to many things but she doesn't understand why I want time alone with her... Sorry if you don't believe. Maybe I have 12 pages because people are actually giving me the advice I am seeking! including yours!

Why would you marry her without having sex or spent more time together ? I really don't understand that. Marriage means that you are supposed to spend the rest of your life with her and it seems that after 6 weeks in Thailand you are already questioning about her...I would just have a deep conversation with her about my worries and if it doesn't solve anything, then I will leave.

We are just engaged and I did so that she would not be hanging out with me and customers thinking she was a slut. The problem is after the engage she only wants to hang out at her moms shop. Which is no way to build a relationship even if everything else is legit

First off, please excuse my English. It is not my first language.

My Background and why I feel I can give my 2 cents worth in this thread.

-I have been in two longer term relationships with two Thai girls. ( over 5 years with each)

- First one was a "good" girl from a middle class background, university student, etc. ( divorced after 6 yrs)

-second (current one) is a bar girl whom I met at one of Bkk s red light district. ( living together happily for 6 years)

I have seen and experienced relationship from two completely different perspective while both with Thai girls.

So here's my two cents:

-first off, a Thai girl looking for a relationship online could be considered a warning sign. Most Thai girls have dreams of marrying their "Thai" prince in shining armor as a result of watching daily soaps. I am sure you have seen these shows on Thai TV. All the plots are similar, poor girl , meets rich, handsome Thai guy, gets abused by some rich girl who have evil parents who wants her to marry the rich guy. etc. My point is there is rarely any plot where a poor Thai girl marries some foreigner. So the question is what are the reasons for her looking online? The real reasons, more often than not are that "Thai men butterfly", " Thai men poor" , " Thai men no take care family".. In my opinion , what is means is she have had relationship at a younger age with a few Thai losers. But she says no relationship in the past, but has the courage to directly post an ad on some dating site to meet foreign men ( most innocent Thai girls I know are scare to death of foreigners), hmm.. seems a bit fishy. Don't be fooled by the innocent look.

"They also have a small daughter that is maybe 6-7" - verify that it is not your girlfriend's daughter. I have seen to many cases where the younger sister/brother is actually the girl's kid.

-on the topic of dowry:

When Herbert Simon ( real estate billionaire) married Miss Universe, Porntip, his dowry was 10million usd, but he is worth a billion plus and in his 70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Simon_(real_estate)

In comparison, when a poor Issan farmer friend got married. He promised 30k baht to bride's parent, was able to come up with 10K baht on the day of the wedding. He gave the bride's parent a IOU for 20k baht . It was been 10 yrs and he hasnt paid it off.

In the news, you will often hear of Thai actresses getting dowry 's of millions of baht.

"2 days later while we were sitting in my hotel room she coughs out 5 million Baht"- From a Thai guy's perspective about this amount. 1. he ( the guy) is well off and can easily afford it. 2. the girl is a virgin 3. the girl is a university graduate 4. the girl family have connections/status in Thai society . If these dont apply, well it's a case of the pop's saying to this daughter , " throw out a large number and see if he bites".

Conclusion on dowry: "Face" is everything in Thailand. The more the better, but loves conquer all. Many cases of girls running away with their BF cause he cant afford the dowry. Only to show up a few years later with a kid or two in tow. There have been Thai songs written about these cases.

My advice: Go home or if you are already home good. Do a test, call your girl up and say that you have lost your job. Make up a good reason, like your company was sold or something. Does she love you? or your money when she thinks you won't have any? How is her reaction when u're down?

"2 hours later we arrive back at moms shop. Mom is upset and leaves. A starts crying. I ask her whats wrong. She asks what do you think of me? She says that there is gossip and people think we already sleep together so we cannot go out together anymore. So we only hang out at shop and with her parents after they finish work." - how old is your girlfriend? I only have had this type of experiences when I was much younger and dated girls in their teens. If she have had Thai BFs in the past and over 22 , this seems like a plot to get you to expedite the engagement and get some money to them.

"2000 Baht zoo ticket payment to make"- Sorry friend, if you're complaining about 2000b wait till you get the call from the in-laws about a leaky roof ,etc. It is customary , for the more well off person in the group to pay for everyone, Thai or foreigner. It is about "face" again.

"The engagement we had, does that follow any tradition?" yes, especially if they are chinese-Thai. There is normally an engagement party to make it known that she is spoken for.

" What I read says not really. Me having an engagement ring... is that tradition? yes, but any cheap engagement brand will do. You're expect to get a nice diamond ring for her for the wedding.

The dowry I paid, is dowry for engagement or wedding? according to her father, he wants more.

Did we just have a wedding ceremony or was it just an engagement? ans: engagement only according to her father, right? In my personally experience, no money is exchanged at the engagement, when I got married to my ex. But I have seen wealthy Thai do the engagement money. f

My final advice: This family was getting along just fine before you show up. Yes, once their daughter is gone from the house and business, they will need to find someone to replace her roles. That person is worth 15k-20K baht max in CM. If she ( your sweetly) loves you, in all fairness for her and her family I would send the in-laws 20k per month, so they can afford to hire someone. Most likely they will find some Burmese girl at 9k per month to help out.

Keep in mind, that keeping her around costs the family money, if she doesn't work outside the home. She has to eat, buy clothing, pay for internet, cell phone money, etc. So in a sense, you marrying their daughter is a financial relief for the family.

Lust and love beware of these feelings- before you make a serious commitment double check. I have seen/ heard of all types of scams related to foreign men and Thai women that I can fill a 500 page novel so beware. I can tell you're having doubts and second thoughts. you should go hire a PI to track her background.

-What is she doing while you're back home slaving away at your 9-5? She is going out with her " Thai brother"?

-Check other dating sites, did she post their too? If she did, as a friend to contact her and see if she says to him " sorry, I am enaged to someone" or does she flirts with him. If the later, run for the hills and call it a lost but lesson learned. If she is a good girl, you'll be able to find out.

-If you have a male friend coming to Thailand, have him stop by their business to inquiry about whatever they are selling. He can be you spy.

Hope this all help I spent a hr typing this, as am super slow on the keyboard.

Remember it only gets worse. My ex was a total sweet-heart when we first meet , her parents didnt want anything. it was all " up to me". But after we got married, slowly it was this and that. In the end, they soaked me for a bundle. <sligh> lesson learned. What I am trying to get at is expect this to continued.. it only get worse..Soon, you will be living together, where you will pay for everything and the money she makes goes to the family, etc. Small annoyances, but nonetheless. After years of this and that, it will have it's toll on you. What you do now, establishes the ground rules and lays the foundation of your future with your little Thai sweetie.

<editted to give happier side of Thai girl relationship>

Sometimes you can luck out like I did in my second relationship with a Thai girl. I met her shortly after my divorce at a red light district establishment. She is a poor Issan farmer's daughter, who only wanted a better life and to go to school. But after trying the 300B per day at a "regular" shop, it wasnt enough. So long story short, she is getting her PHD soon. haha no dowry , no expectations from anyone. She knows my deal with the ex and doesnt expect anything. I paid for her education. I was a poor farmer and never got the opportunity for an education, so seeing her excelled was like a check on my life's checklist.

She takes care of everything around the house , has been a great companion and friend. Oh, her family are happy with whatever and never asks for anything. I do send gifts for New Years and help out, whenever I have a compassionate heart. So I lucked out, and you can too!

GL.

PS. if you read to here, thanks for the effort. I know my writing is terrible. And you deserve a .

Reference: Private dancer is a sick ( in a good way) about the real goings of a Thai bar girl. It doesnt apply to your situation though, but a good read .

Thanks for the post!

Not her kid. I have seen pictures of the family. I really think they are sincere... but want money because they think that they deserve it??

1. They think that since I am a film producer that I have unlimited funds I am sure

2. She has never had a bf before. I know some find that hard to believe but being around this girl (and knowing actors) she could not fake her innosence.

3. Not graduate of college but only high school and well recognized for may merits.

4. I wouldn't say huge status but they have a small business that stays pretty busy.

I cut off the funds a few days ago and tonight she is ready to void the engagement because I didn't pay all the money yet. Now I can see her point because I didn't make it perfect. I was sapposed to the other day and tod her I would but became suspicious because since we got engaged we have not spent any time together, which was the point of getting engaged. So we could go everywhere together and not make her look like a slut. Still I held to that she would have to show me that this relationship is not just about money. Tat we would have to spend some quality time together. Her excuse not to is: she works all day and cannot leave her mom to do all the work because she has beriberi (but is very overweight??). So I ask why she cannot after work. She says OK, some times with family sometimes alone. The mom says something in Thai that I do not understand and her tone changes and she will go with me to get the money I owe to sin sod. So tonight I kind of blew it because she was planning on us going to dinner together and I didn't want hungry mom eating my wallet. I said something a little rude and she got very offended and left on moms scooter. to go eat without me, told me to go find some rice. When she got back I called her and she was very upset, which I feel bad for bacause maybe I am wrong about this whole thing. She asked why I wasn't sincere with her. I told her that all I wanted was her to make an effort to spend time with me alone. She said she has to work ,she has duty, she has to take care of her sister. I tell her that the only reason I have not paid the last 20k is because she won't spend time with me. She says tat she will but only at the shop. I tell her that is not how you build a relationship.She says she thinks that I cannot take care of her. Anyway to make a long story continue... I told her to tell her father what she keeps saying I do not understand and I will talk to him in the morning.

She is 19 and yes it did feel like a plot, but I could see her moms point because all the customers were eyeing me over and when we were not there you know how women can gossip.

The other thing is she is not willing to leave her family or moms shop. I ask her then why am I expected to pay sin sod if you are not being replaced. She says to take care of family.

Actually it would cost them more if she wasn't around because she does a majority of the work around their shop.

She works 12 hours a day with her mom. then takes care of her sister. She has no other life. That is part of the problem is she thinks that us being together at the shop is quality time because that is all she knows.

I really do think that I am overthinking this and that I may have already hurt her feelings beyond repair and I feel bad about that. But she has no concern for me coming this far and her not making an effort to hang out with just me, She doesn't see the need for it.

Tomorrow I will know when I talk to her father. She did mention tonight that she wanted to void the engagement and give me back the ring I bought her. Is that a jesture of her sincerity?? actually giving the ring back to me?? I wasn't expecting that. Now I wonder if I just blew something that could have been good over a few bucks??

I gotta go agree with the 'get out brigade'.

The family asked you for 5 million Baht sin sod, you said no way, they then (IMO) panicked, thinking you would leg it, invented the 'engagement party' and 'gifts' story just to get something from you.

To me it seems suspect. I know of engagement parties but not with the tying of string. This is the real deal, ball and chain stylee!

Also of interest is the way the OP hasn't replied to any posts. He asked for advice but as of yet remains silent. I wonder...

actually I have replied to almost all the posts. And yes the tying of the strings was a little odd!

Haha, yes I see you have replied to many. My apologies.

Can I ask, did you both kneel, side by side with an almost 'wai' pose when the string was tied and have water poured on your hands?

No, and I understand it was just an engagement. But I never find any info on engagement like we did. I thought if it was tradition that it was tradition. Or is that up to the individual family??

Nobody else will put up with my work. It sounds like you are a hired Killer. But really you are a Fool or a Troll

12-16 hrs a day, 5-6 days a week with little notice of the actual hours I will be working. I have a start time but never a finish time. I can start work at 6am monday morning and by friday be starting at 5pm working until saturday morning. Or saturday working until sunday morning. 2-3 hotel moves in any given week... How you think?