cumgranosalum

7 hours ago, Strange said:

 

You disagree with ME dude. YOU provide justification for your disagreement. Otherwise its just your opinion and feelings witch I couldn't care less about. 

 

*Comes to thread with "wealth of knowledge"*

 

*Provides no knowledge*

I have done so - it is unfortunate you cannot understand....but it seems to be characteristic of your posts

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

poles? 

 

The POLLS you love, please, provide a link. This isn't my first rodeo, old-timer. 

Enough of the ad hominems - if you disagree go and do your own research, I come to this topic with a wealth of knowledge, if you want to take part get yourself up to speed and don't rely on others to do the work for  you that they have already done themselves.

7 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

I agree with your post but I would put that way higher than 65%. Those Thailand polls are misleading as they insinuate that people don't like corruption when they have to PAY, but I guarantee 95% are completely fine and believe it to be 100% OK if they are on the receiving end of it. Like, its their right or something. 

Sorry but the pole was internationally run - Google them if you like.

people are often happy to pay as they see it as either avoiding bureaucracy or saving time. it is also a key to making money.

when it comes to minor "on-the-spot" fines to the police they often don't even consider the whys and wherefores at all, but I have worked in industry in Thailand now for 15 years and I know that many more educated people are now becoming aware of what a huge monkey on the back of the thai economy this is.

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Nobody cares about 7-11 and KFC dude its a non-point. 

 

so if the price is 100 baht for 2-3 t-shirts, they add on 20 baht, then discount it? 

There are many problems in Thailand, one for the expat is that of perception - one feels that to bolster feelings of inadequacy they latch on to some rather innocuous matter and blow out of all proportion until it really assumes the characteristics of a major paranoid delusion - over pricing of foreigners is such a case - how can some people be so daft as to not realise how to buy something - apart from govt sanctioned dual pricing I seldom pay more than any other person in this country, regardless of race creed or color. These people are not seldom actually "overcharged' (like everything has a fixed price!?!?!), and if they are it is not because they are foreigners, it is because they "saw you coming".

firstly it would seem from the Op that the poster has little understanding of corruption in Thailand and how it works.

Criticism? Of course - many people on this site have spent years in Thailand and despite the cliché'd  argument "if you don't like it go home" they are still here. Some for retirement and others for work, but this does not exclude you from having views on where you live - it is ridiculous to suggest so.

When the OP compares corruption in Thailand to that in the US, he  is making a classic misunderstanding about Thai life .....and many people who have lived here for years, decades even, also  fail to grasp the true nature of graft corruption and nepotism in Thailand - a country where 65% of the population believe that corruption is OK and a necessary tool for oiling the wheels of both the economy and government.

So - al ot of people like or love Thailand but they don't peer at it through rose-tinted specs and see the countries issues for what they really are sometime s unique to Thailand and sometimes part of a global problem but to suggest they shouldn't be criticised and using the US as a yard stick is just simplification in the extreme.

.......remember at present Thailand lgs behind even Burma in the democracy stakes.

1 minute ago, Happy Grumpy said:

One is quite obviously far more educated about it than you. :)

 

 

Could be that your bitterness about Thai behavior towards you is clouding your mind, and it isn't simply a case of lack of education/intelligence.

 

Who's to know! 

 

:)

QED

48 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

It isn't more expensive for tourists..... it's cheaper for Thais...... 

 

 

So many Westerners here, always glass half empty, imaging things to get all a puff and a puff about. 

 

Sad. 

 

 

A comment like would indicate you haven't given even the slightest considered to the financing of the country's national heritage or the parks and therefore don't really have any basis for understanding how the pricing is arrived at.

Your posts on this topic would see to indicate you really haven't even the most basic information on how the country's heritage or National Parks are run or financed or even considered their function.

I really think if anyone is going to post on a topic it is a good idea to inform themselves of its basics before actually post anything, then it avoids making the type nonsense posts as you seem to have offered.

6 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

That's exactly what it is.

 

Now it's free for all.

 

Well done Thais! 

You've completely misread the situation

2 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Sea Life Bangkok (Siam Ocean World) is 100% Western Owned (by Merlin Entertainment) with Western manager. 

Firstly, I don't see you are actually making any point...secondly I doubt  your informationis correct

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

In a nation where the average salary is $5,000 per month, it may make sense to ask taxpayers to subsidize "national treasures".  In a nation where the average salary is closer to $500 per month, not so much.

This is not a simple tax/income thing. The government funds roads, civil engineering, Army and Navy as well as various other major financial burdens, so one has to ask how much is actually needed for basic planning and maintenance of national heritage sites.

as said many sites can also generate more income through secondary sales rather than charge for entry, which is both unpopular with foreigners and discourages visitors as a whole.

5 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Will Western owned and managed businesses in Thailand that insist on dual-pricing, such as Siam Ocean World, follow suit? 

most companies in Thailand are 51% Thai owned - Ocean world IMO is not a cultural asset, it is a circus or zoo.....their mangement will be Thai?foreign combination.

The fact is that dual pricing is not a good business decision...i suspect that "western" companies that do this are doing so out of pressure from thai sources and doing it against common sense.

10 hours ago, White Christmas13 said:

Go back where you come from

Not really - in UK many places are free to enter as the policy is to allow people to see regardless of their income.

Discounts are offered to many categories at paying places.

Thailand's problem is exemplified by dual pricing as an example of their failure to satisfactorily mange their heritage is an efficient way. 

this leads to damage and degradation of sites both natural and man-made, lack of upkeep of both sites and contents means that these "gems" are being lost or allowed to fade away.

if Thailand is to maintain its national heritage (in all its forms) there needs to be a serious and radical reform of how they approach the issues.

Thailand has several World Heritage sites which operate a dual pricing system yet they are at least partly funded by international money - I find this particularly insulting. There is also a matter of maintenance and the ever-present threat of losing World Heritage Status. There are also sites waitng to be added to the W.H. list - they hae to show they are capable of looking after these sites first.

21 minutes ago, impulse said:

Without dual pricing, a lot of the venues I enjoy would either go out of business or have to curtail the level of amenities they offer to the point I wouldn't want to visit them anyway.

 

So I'm in favor of dual pricing.  If the venue isn't worth the higher price to me, I just don't go.  No use complaining.

 

If everyone paid the Thai price, the places would be packed and they still wouldn't bring in enough $$$ to pay the bills.  If everyone paid the higher price, the places would be like foreign (and rich Thai) ghost towns and they wouldn't bring in enough money to pay the bills.

 

I'd be careful what you wish for.   I'd rather be able to choose whether to visit than to see a shuttered attraction or the shell of what used to be a fun place.

"Without dual pricing, a lot of the venues I enjoy would either go out of business or have to curtail the level of amenities they offer to the point I wouldn't want to visit them anyway." - this is a totally unsubstantiated assertion and wildly inaccurate.

All countries have policies for preserving natural beauty and national heritage - in theUK for instance in many cases this is free.

the issues are not simply down to charging they are about how a country looks after its heritage and funds it. it is also about how many people in the country (tourists included) make use of or enjoy those assets.

If you reduce fees more people actually visit and in fact income from visitors often increases.

furthermore entrance fees - whatever the level seldom pay for upkeep of any attraction - the best they do is contribute a small amount - the way visitors help and attraction is by secondary payments - e.g. what they buy when they are there....this ca be books, tours etc etc - but before you can do this t, you need visitors and high entrance fees have been demonstrated time and again to drive customers and visitors away.

National museums, parks and works of art are a nation's heritage, an attraction for both citizens and tourists alike if the people and those visiting a country can't see them, what is the point of them being there? Thailand's policy to their heritage at times gives the impression of a dog in the manger attitude.

5 hours ago, balo said:

I wonder if it really will be free in all the national parks ? Maybe a good time to visit them all now

As far as I'm aware there is no mention of National parks in this dictum

8 hours ago, zorro1 said:

Make it free and still the moaners come out.. Pathetic

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

The nature of dual pricing in Thailand is particularly galling and reflects very badly on the nation's image as whole.

I think the saddest part of this is the attractions that are being opened free are probably the ones most likely to be damaged by this dictum. I get the feeling they just haven't thought it through. We are talking about the nations heritage and to suddenly through it open to a large number of extra visitors - something which one ca be fairly certain they are totally unprepared for is just foolhardy in the extreme.

dual pricing or not this has all the hallmarks of an ill thought out and possibly damaging move.

if they really wanted to show off Thailand's resources and heritage they could open up the national parks or just reduce the pricing - they would probably actually increase their income  with a reduction in prices there.

2 hours ago, georgemandm said:

Up to you how you feel but it not to you is it say if you have nothing  constructive to say keep out of it 

It is a perfectly accurate assessment of your post - which has nothing to say on the topic.

2 hours ago, eastendanto said:

 

totally disagree regarding bureaucracy in UK.... its steadily got worse and worse over the years.... all you have to do is read the Ops elaborate posting on the pile of paperwork and bureaucracy he had to go through just to live in his own country!! Whatever body of statistics says it's one of the most streamlined in the world obviously doesn't live here....and obviously doesn't say much for the rest of the world's bureaucrats, and the EEC is the fundamental architect of all the bureaucracy we have over here. As for Education not sure why you are pointing that out as that was not my question to the Op. As you raised the subject,  stats can be manipulated to say anything the publisher wants them to say. Go to the east end of London and take a look at some of the stats for academia in that part of the UK.  

Judging by your comments, It would appear I have lived in more places both in the world and the UK than yourself - and I can vouch that the UK bureaucracy is just about the most streamlined in the world, and has been since the late 70s. A lot of this is down to the plain English Campaign, which is a uniquely British institution.

I have in many countries watched as dim-witted people do themselves out of their rights by not thinking when they are confronted with bureaucracy - like stupid drivers, they exist on a world-wide scale - but at least UK bureaucracy tries to make it as easy as possible for them. Tie this to Fair Trading legislation and you have a recipe that kills jobsworths, unnecessary gobbledygook and misleading contracts.

As for education - not all comments on this thread are just for you - but are you suggesting that education in Thailand is comp[arable to the UK? go on, make my day!

For me one of the biggest questions is whether or not I can justify to myself living in a country with such an appalling political situation - by living and working here I'm tacitly supporting it.

1 minute ago, eastendanto said:

Hi Alzack,

 

firstly top man (and brave) for uprooting and coming back to UK with your Thai family, wish you and your family all the best. Sticking with the red tape bureaucracy that hits you...(people complain about the Thai bureaucracy but there are quarters of the UK government that give them a good run for their money)!!!

I live in the UK and trust me the bureaucracy will only get worse....

 

I am interested in your comment about paying 200k baht a year for a private British school in Thailand for your son and bringing him back to UK where he would get free schooling. Was the reason for bringing him back to study in UK purely a financial one or was it also an academic one i.e. even though you were paying 200K per year was the schooling not up to a standard that you would get for free in the UK?

Bureaucracy in UK is one of the most streamlined in the world....and despite criticism the education and healthcare systems are still up there with the best. just look at the University league tables.

After Brexit hits the UK may take a dive but it will be a brave government that completely dismantles NHS

36 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Wait till the council tax bill comes in, the cost of running a car, unless you have a company car, the regular wet,

cold, and windy weather, mixing with all the immigrants, the amount of income tax you have to pay, the very strong

possibility of Sharia law in the future, not safe to walk the streets in the cities, do you want me to go on?

"mixing with all the immigrants," - clearly no sense of irony!

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Is it 15 million people (the number who voted leave in the "Big Opinion Poll") deciding the future for a nation of 64 million people?

 

And then a PM acting against the Constitution, as a Dictator, not placing the matter before the elected representatives of "the people"? (Parliament that is. The notion that this will go to an Order in Council, before HM, is ludicrous)

 

To make a "unilateral" decision to leave would itself not be acceptable to the EU, as it would not be "in accordance with the Constitutional requirements of the country initiating Article 50".

 

Dictators are not welcome in the UK (as they seem to be elsewhere).  Cromwell was enough, such that the return of the King was met with much celebration.

 

The cry of "Dictator" will be heard more and more.  For some it is reason enough for war.  It has been in the past.

 

Which is what provoked Heseltines angry outburst.

 

Happily there is a good chance that it will not come to that as the matter, undoubtedly, will go before the courts.  All of them, up to the highest in the land.  They are unlikely to "rule away" Parliamentary Sovereignty.

 

As an aside it should be understood that pre-departure the European Court would continue to have authority over British courts as that is now part of British law and could overule any decision.  The European Court will continue to have authority until it is removed (Repealed) by Act of Parliament.  This has been pointed out by Ms May who has stated that European laws now integrated into British Law can/will be removed by Parliamentary Repeal (the only way they can be) after Britain leaves. 

 

Thus the European Court can overule any ruling by British Courts that such Dictatorial behaviour is "in accordance with the Constitutional requirements".

 

You need to brush up on how Britain does "Democracy".

 

 

your knowledge of democracy and British history appears to be minuscule - with such a paucity it is no wonder you don't understand the subtleties of British democracy - but that is what the politicians rely on

38 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Perhaps you just do not know the meaning of Democracy.

a comment like that would indicate that it is not I who lacks the knowledge in that field........

Originally I planned to return to Europe - now it looks as if I shall be returning to UK.......that I have to restrict my options because of an undemocratic move by an incompetent PM is very galling indeed.

At least once home I will be able to voice my opinions without having to think what I'm allowed by the governent and their lackies (TV included)

1 hour ago, BruceMangosteen said:

 

I don't see the scam? The company retains an agent to provide instructors of English for their employees. It's the agents and instructor's duty to secure the proper VISA and WP. This stuff about working off site only applies to an actual "school" and in reality, isn't at issue. If you are working for an agency you are often working off site as said "site" is the agents home or some office, not a school. The fact the agent/agency/"school" tells the corporate personnel person a set of lies is expected and just the way of life here. The only scam is if the agent doesn't pay the instructor and doesn't face violence as a result. 

do you have the details of these agencies - Ive been approaching the private language schools who supply teachers to the corporate sector, but it seems none have legal cover..

I'm not naming names but there are "well-known" companies involved

here is a quote from an article about agancies on Ajarn.com

"I felt it was time to revisit the whole TPA debate having read this horror story about a Thai agent who actually forged visas for two of his foreign teaching staff and thought they could get away with it.

And the reason / excuse the agent gave upon his arrest? "The Thai visa process is an overcomplicated process and sometimes agencies like mine bend the rules to try to simplify matters and speed things up" 

The two unfortunate teachers, blissfully unaware of their crime, were stopped by airport immigration and ended up doing jail time in Bangkok. The mind boggles. Let's all hope and pray that this is an isolated case because no teacher deserves that sort of punishment, regardless of how naive they were."

Now I'm sure they are not all like that but how do I tell?

8 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

I'm just speaking from my 12 years experience of working as a teacher in Bangkok, including corporate training. There are plenty of language institutes that follow the rules.

 

I'm not convince at all - I think that even some of the teachers think they are "legal" as they move from company to company. I know there are extensions for long-term work involving more than one company, but this whole thing is a mess.
I think it needs a change in the law.

I'm sure immigration and labour dept are not interested so i will have to think of some other way of getting to the bottom of this - in the mean time the vast majority of companies appear to be paying for English - and other language courses - that are carried out illegally.

If you know of a visa or permit that covers this work I'd be interested to know, because all the companies I've approached - and that includes "big names" seem to flimflam on this subject.