iphad

So far I see two main sides here:

People who know him and judge his character and skills to be good,

People who don't know him and judge his character and skills to be bad.

As B Trink used to say: "Manure - Human nature".

There are many sides here probably.

I don't know him but to me the issue isn't about if his skills are bad or good or if his character is good.

He chose to open a business in a foreign country on a student visa..& got caught.

If he had done it on the sly from his home he might have never got caught.

One might disagree with the laws in Thailand..but that isn't the issue either.

Appears from his earlier post his is still in Thailand so immigration didn't deport him.

I'd say he is lucky..he's still able to be here.

He has balls...to open a business & flaunt the laws of a foreign country while he's on a student visa.

He had a good run for as long as it lasted.

Anyone that has sympathy for him & blames Thailand for his self caused predicament needs a shrink not a Chiropractor

Personally I would move on.

The only problem would be what would I do for the next 20 minutes to an hour finding the next g/f.

a good Thai massage is better than a excellent chiropractor any day of the week.

of course Thailand should shut him down working illegally while on a student visa with no certification in Thailand.

Happy the OP sorted his overstay problem ..I can imagine the stress at times must have been a weight.

Also happy that Thailand let him back in with no problems.

I was asked last week at Chaeng Wattana in Bkk to provide rental agreement for retirement 1 year extension.

removed my comments as simple as the question was.. I misread it

The thread started by the OP is about "Options for the young & wealthy" foreigners to live in Thailand.

One of the options is not demeaning Thailand or Thai people.

Working online in Thailand is not really an issue if the work is based outside the country..servers outside & bank deposits in a foreign bank.................although some people will argue otherwise.

The problem is if someone is designing websites, software,an estore etc that is based in Thailand.

The argument could be western designers etc  are better than Thai but if that was the case...how else can Thai become better than education & experience..so in my view companies in Thailand should hire Thai over farang for this type of work.

The issue in the OP is how to stay & live in Thailand.

If one is really wealthy..then the elite card is an option.

If one is not so wealthy then marriage ,ed visa,teaching English are options.

by the way I am retired so I am not a young wealthy internet savvy guy.

It's all about common sense & getting the correct visa to live in Thailand if that is one's choice.

This is the guy with a lot of money:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/750806-marriage-visa-without-the-400000-baht/

Some people marry for love...

Some wealthy young farang marry to get a marriage visa to live in a country full of potholes.

It's good he found an option since his OP was about No Options.
 

 

@ LivinLOS
"I doubt you could find a single Thai in the entire country to do what one of my friends does online.. He's one of a handful of people worldwide with a certification that enables him a very high income lifestyle..
So yes, these people do do something many Thais cannot do, provide a global derived income without Thai clients or employers.. How many Thais live that way ??"
 
Then your friend could easily afford an "elite" card or a work permit to live here...He's lucky.
 
 
 

He can.. He has many options available to him..

The point of what I quoted was the statement that they are not doing a job that cannot be done by a Thai.. In many cases that's factually incorrect, they are doing jobs that Thais cannot do, and in doing so do not present the threat to the Thai labor pool.

 

The point I would make is that is 1 guy who is how you say "exceptional" that no other Thai person can do.

If he or anyone can make a living online I personally have no problem with it & doubt if that person would be caught.

The problem is living in Thailand under what visa.

Obviously if he is under 50 he can't get a retirement extension...but he could get a tourist visa ..& work online in the gray area..as long as he is not soliciting Thai customers here in Thailand & he has money deposited in a foreign bank account.

Or he could get a work visa...(but if he is that talented why would he work in Thailand.)

The fact is a person working online needs some kind of visa to live here...

At the moment there is no Visa in Thailand that allows a wealthy under 50 person to live in Thailand except for the "elite" card, and the other options such as Ed Visa,marriage etc that have already been mentioned in previous posts..albeit with some strings attached.

Unfortunately some of us are talking facts & others are talking wishful thinking.

Working online is not the issue to me..it's the visa to live here.

@ LivinLOS

"I doubt you could find a single Thai in the entire country to do what one of my friends does online.. He's one of a handful of people worldwide with a certification that enables him a very high income lifestyle..
So yes, these people do do something many Thais cannot do, provide a global derived income without Thai clients or employers.. How many Thais live that way ??"

Then your friend could easily afford an "elite" card or a work permit to live here...He's lucky.

@tookwan cottage

"I thought you may have worked it out yourself, but it seems like you need further clarification also: if AYJAYDEE has a life—which is quite likely—it would seem that he/she should continue to enjoy it, rather than purging frustrations on a forum that isn't substantially benefiting him or those who read his/her posts. Sanctimony is not useful in these matters and I am astounded that the post continues in such a fashion."

true I may not have worked it out I thought Thaivisa is a forums where people can express their opinions & sometimes even include fact.

I have no problem with what AYJAYDEE says or others even if I don't agree with them..I might even change my opinion if they put up a good argument.

But my experience with forums is that the topic stays with the OP on the thread & personal attacks without a point is just that..

 

 

JLCrab is annoying me right now with his sensible, measured comments. I'd really like to argue in favour of freelancers, but this guy is just being too darn reasonable in his opposition. Stop it at once 

 

Fortunately AYJAYDEE is available to play the antagonistic Mr Hyde to JLCrab's sensible Dr Jekyll.

 

AYJAYDEE, the immigration policies of your home country don't matter in the slightest, unless you happen to hail from a country with exactly the same economic circumstances as Thailand. It's probably safe to say that most of the posters here are from developed western nations, which naturally have more stringent rules for long term stays. You can compare apples and oranges if you want, but it's not a valid argument - if it was, you'd also be arguing against the availability of visas for retirement (does your home country offer a retirement visa to anyone over 50 with a modest pension?). This debate is about Thailand, and the only sensible way to frame the debate is with reference to past, present and potential Thai immigration policies.

 

The fact is that Thailand cheerfully tolerated freelancers for many years (I'm including everything from copywriters to web designers to semi-retired authors like me in this definition), most likely because these grey economy workers brought a net benefit to the economy at very little cost. Even the poorest beach bum who scrapes a living writing web copy at $5 a page earns - and spends - much more than the average Thai, and most individual westerners would struggle to support themselves on much less than the average income of an entire Thai household (~25,000 baht per month as of 2013). Personally, I earn the equivalent of maybe 7 or 8 average Thai households each month, and when I'm in Thailand I spend it all in country. That's a direct, no-strings-attached injection of capital from overseas.

 

The point I'm making - and I'm well aware that this sounds so painfully arrogant that there'll be an echo as the words escape from my own rear end - is why wouldn't Thailand want people like me? Why wouldn't any country clamour to welcome a law abiding long term visitor who brings with him the economic benefit of several families' earnings, but without the associated social costs of several families? In purely economic terms I'm all upside (though it's worth pointing out that I don't actually live or work in Thailand; I only visit 5 or 6 months a year). As arrogant as it sounds I'm a catch for the Thai economy, and if the world worked according to cold logic I'd be offered a lifetime unconditional visa at the border (though I won't hold my breath).

 

The answer is either: 

 

1) The authorities really didn't consider this particular group when they decided to make staying in Thailand more challenging, and ousting them is an unintended and undesirable consequence, or;

 

2) They did consider them, and either don't know or don't care how much free money they inject into the economy, or;

 

3) As JLCrab suggested, there's some unknown social factor that makes freelancers an undesirable group.

 

Of course the authorities can do what they please and no amount of whining will have the slightest effect on national policy, but I think it's important, if only to counter the annoyingly smug retiree crowd who love to lecture on the subject, to point out that freelancers are a positive force for the Thai economy, and are really no different from the retirees themselves but for the fact that there isn't a dedicated visa category for such people. If freelancers sound like 'crybabies', as AYJAYDEE put it, when they complain that the world doesn't bend over to suit their needs, it's only because they know that it did once bend. It's sad to see a good thing come to an end, especially when you know that nobody will benefit from what comes next. 

 

 

 

because they dont think youre worth the trouble involved in having you live permanently in their country. and with your arrogant me me me attitude I cant say as I blame them. and they didnt bend to your needs pal. dont give yourself any credit that thailand was lax with everyone right down to the low life druggie in the gutter. you were just one of the herd that happened to have an occupation. and you got swept out with the same broom that was used to get rid of all the undesirables. live with it.

 

 

You know, I have always maintained that an avatar title says a lot about someone: unimaginative, lacking insight, unsophisticated and sanctimonious— "AYJAYDEE" screams all of these traits. The saddest thing is that AYJAYDEE still hasn't come to terms with the salient issue that underpins his/her bile: a resentment towards others due to a problem in one's own life and/or, a need to feel superior to others in order to feel good about oneself, as there is not enough to enjoy in one's own life.

 

what has this to do with OP other than a personal attack?

at least make a point.

JLCrab is annoying me right now with his sensible, measured comments. I'd really like to argue in favour of freelancers, but this guy is just being too darn reasonable in his opposition. Stop it at once 

 

Fortunately AYJAYDEE is available to play the antagonistic Mr Hyde to JLCrab's sensible Dr Jekyll.

 

AYJAYDEE, the immigration policies of your home country don't matter in the slightest, unless you happen to hail from a country with exactly the same economic circumstances as Thailand. It's probably safe to say that most of the posters here are from developed western nations, which naturally have more stringent rules for long term stays. You can compare apples and oranges if you want, but it's not a valid argument - if it was, you'd also be arguing against the availability of visas for retirement (does your home country offer a retirement visa to anyone over 50 with a modest pension?). This debate is about Thailand, and the only sensible way to frame the debate is with reference to past, present and potential Thai immigration policies.

 

The fact is that Thailand cheerfully tolerated freelancers for many years (I'm including everything from copywriters to web designers to semi-retired authors like me in this definition), most likely because these grey economy workers brought a net benefit to the economy at very little cost. Even the poorest beach bum who scrapes a living writing web copy at $5 a page earns - and spends - much more than the average Thai, and most individual westerners would struggle to support themselves on much less than the average income of an entire Thai household (~25,000 baht per month as of 2013). Personally, I earn the equivalent of maybe 7 or 8 average Thai households each month, and when I'm in Thailand I spend it all in country. That's a direct, no-strings-attached injection of capital from overseas.

 

The point I'm making - and I'm well aware that this sounds so painfully arrogant that there'll be an echo as the words escape from my own rear end - is why wouldn't Thailand want people like me? Why wouldn't any country clamour to welcome a law abiding long term visitor who brings with him the economic benefit of several families' earnings, but without the associated social costs of several families? In purely economic terms I'm all upside (though it's worth pointing out that I don't actually live or work in Thailand; I only visit 5 or 6 months a year). As arrogant as it sounds I'm a catch for the Thai economy, and if the world worked according to cold logic I'd be offered a lifetime unconditional visa at the border (though I won't hold my breath).

 

The answer is either: 

 

1) The authorities really didn't consider this particular group when they decided to make staying in Thailand more challenging, and ousting them is an unintended and undesirable consequence, or;

 

2) They did consider them, and either don't know or don't care how much free money they inject into the economy, or;

 

3) As JLCrab suggested, there's some unknown social factor that makes freelancers an undesirable group.

 

Of course the authorities can do what they please and no amount of whining will have the slightest effect on national policy, but I think it's important, if only to counter the annoyingly smug retiree crowd who love to lecture on the subject, to point out that freelancers are a positive force for the Thai economy, and are really no different from the retirees themselves but for the fact that there isn't a dedicated visa category for such people. If freelancers sound like 'crybabies', as AYJAYDEE put it, when they complain that the world doesn't bend over to suit their needs, it's only because they know that it did once bend. It's sad to see a good thing come to an end, especially when you know that nobody will benefit from what comes next. 

 

 

 

Everyone that spends money in Thailand is a bonus to the Thai economy...might be small or large..depending on each case.

As you say it's apples to oranges to what happens in our home countries.& Thailand.

& it's also apples to oranges to comparing a retirement extension to a under 50 that has money group....but there is no such visa for this group if you don't want or can't afford the elite card.

Is one group better than the other?..offers more to Thailand ?

Doesn't really matter but people can debate this all day & night.

If I would venture a guess..the retiree group is larger..

The under 50 group...that have money from back home or working online...do have options.

One is the elite card...meaning you have to have put money upfront to stay here...

For Thailand to have a visa extension for the under 50 with money..might be a possibility..in the future but not now as it stands.( except for the elite card)

If you are making money online..it might not be a guarantee..you make so much this month & next month maybe little..

With a pension it's usually a set amount per month & again someone can be retired & over 50 but they don't have a pension..so they are not eligible if they don't have income from other sources.

I still think if you have money to support yourself while in Thailand you will be able to continue getting tourist visas...but again that might be on a case per case situation so one has to prove to Thai immigration they have the money.

This "good thing" as you called it coming to an end is probably due to people "overstaying" &/or working illegally/selling drugs etc..causing problems by a few that affects others.

Blaming Thailand or the retiree group is not the cause of this new change.

No issues with the extension, TM7 form and 1900 baht.

You won't have a problem doing a visa run to activate your second entry at the expiration of the extension. They are currently lookingg at back to back visa exempt entries. Although some of the crossings in the south seem to have their own agenda!

I'm going to need a form for the extension? I will download the form this week. Thanks.

That's good to hear about the extension. Hopefully, I can find work so I won't need to do it. Thanks.

if this is the 1st part of your 2 month double entry & your 1st extension of 30 days...make sure you check the date on your full page tourist visa...you have to leave Thailand & come back in before or on that date..doesn't always coincide with your new extension stamp & date.

When entering Laos, she has been told by the officer, no problem you can enter Laos with your ID card.

When she came back, the rule had changed, so yes, I do complain, and big time.

She doesn't meet the requirements, don't let her in then.

Did she have a border pass? Thais cannot enter with only an ID card.

Unless it's changed recently ..Thais could enter laos with their ID card but only for 3 days I believe..counting the day going in...so possible in this case they were over the 3 days.

 

@NamkangMan

I have been living here for near a couple of years on 60 day tourist visas.  I have never once been asked for any "financials" at the various neighbouring Thai Embassies/Consulates.

I could easily provide them, if required to do so, or, more preferably, if that's all you had to do, in order to be granted another 60 day "tourist" visa.

With all the 30 day visa exemption runners simply going to the 60 day tourist visa, I really think that's going to come under the same notice, in the near future, if not already, and there will be no "back to back" 6 day tourist visas issued, after all, what would the visa crack down achieve, if everyone, automatically, was granted a 60 day tourist visa?

I consider myself fortunate, it's no real big deal that I am tipped out of Thailand, but, as my post mentioned, isn't it time Thailand reviewed their visa classes to incorporate more legitmate foreigners who wish to reside here?

 

I believe the crackdown is on the 30 day entries...so if people are living here for a period of time they would be on the 2 month double entry..or 1 month I guess but the 2 month double entry is better as one could get basically 6 months with 30 day extensions on either end of the 2 month & although still have to leave the country after 3 months..it's one less visa process to get.

Then it's the issue of funds...I myself have never been asked before about funds either but as I said in previous post..I wasn't refused a 2 month visa..they just wanted proof of funds next time.

So if you did stay in Thailand..& you went to do another border run & applied for a tourist visa..I would suggest you provide them with proof of funds.

I believe they are mostly cracking down on people..young or old..who are living in Thailand & maybe working illegally.

If you have proof you do not need to work..I'm thinking you will have no issues.

 

 

Surely, iphad, the back to back 60 day tourist visas will be stopped.  I am fully expecting them to do so.
 

 

I don't agree...doesn't mean I know...but I believe Thai Immigration is focused on making it more difficult for people that are working illegally in Thailand.

By making people go on the tourist visa they have more control..to ask for documentation...like what your funds are..where you living etc.

I don't believe Thailand is trying to turn away people that have money that they have accumulated legally...might be different if they suspect money laundering or drug money.

It's a wait & see game.at least for the next couple months..

I'm sure it is unsettling for people not knowing...difficult to plan ahead if one doesn't know if they get a tourist visa continued or not.

People might have to have a Plan B...or C

It's the people with little or no funds that have been living in Thailand who will experience the biggest pain....young and old.

@NamkangMan

I have been living here for near a couple of years on 60 day tourist visas.  I have never once been asked for any "financials" at the various neighbouring Thai Embassies/Consulates.

I could easily provide them, if required to do so, or, more preferably, if that's all you had to do, in order to be granted another 60 day "tourist" visa.

With all the 30 day visa exemption runners simply going to the 60 day tourist visa, I really think that's going to come under the same notice, in the near future, if not already, and there will be no "back to back" 6 day tourist visas issued, after all, what would the visa crack down achieve, if everyone, automatically, was granted a 60 day tourist visa?

I consider myself fortunate, it's no real big deal that I am tipped out of Thailand, but, as my post mentioned, isn't it time Thailand reviewed their visa classes to incorporate more legitmate foreigners who wish to reside here?

I believe the crackdown is on the 30 day entries...so if people are living here for a period of time they would be on the 2 month double entry..or 1 month I guess but the 2 month double entry is better as one could get basically 6 months with 30 day extensions on either end of the 2 month & although still have to leave the country after 3 months..it's one less visa process to get.

Then it's the issue of funds...I myself have never been asked before about funds either but as I said in previous post..I wasn't refused a 2 month visa..they just wanted proof of funds next time.

So if you did stay in Thailand..& you went to do another border run & applied for a tourist visa..I would suggest you provide them with proof of funds.

I believe they are mostly cracking down on people..young or old..who are living in Thailand & maybe working illegally.

If you have proof you do not need to work..I'm thinking you will have no issues.

I am under 50 years of age, single, and self funded, therefore, I am a "visa runner."

 

I have followed this thread, and the various arguments and personal attacks.

 

I will simply say, shouldn't Thailand at least review their visa laws?  They have been the same for so long, yet, the world is changing.  The distribution of wealth is changing.

 

Why is it such a problem for Thailand to add more visa classes for legitimate people living here?  It appears that the longer Thailand does not review their current visa laws, more and more legitimate foreigners are not represented in those laws.  

 

Nothing stays the same forever.  They need to review the current system. 

 

I don't say this as I feel I have a right to live here.  I say it for the benefit of Thailand, and the Thai economy in general.

 

This visa crack down very well may see thousands of people, and billions of baht, rejected from Thailand, simply because they can not meet a visa criteria that does not exist to represent them.  

I am not an expert so this is my opinion & I could be be very much wrong.

From my experience I was on tourist visa 2 month double entry for 2 1/2 years..last time I was in Vientiane in April ...Thai immigration wrote on my Tourist visa that it was the last one I would get unless I showed proof of income.

I am over 50 & could do ..& I have since done the retirement extension.

The impression I get on the crackdown...is Thai immigration is clamping down on the border runs & want people to get the proper visa..so instead of going to border & come back on a 30 day entry..they have to apply for a tourist visa.

So basically one is good for at least 2..& maybe 3.... 2 month double entries.

Then Thai immigration would require proof of income...so if you have the funds..there is a good chance Thailand would extend the 2 month double entry to you..I am guessing there is no age limit..so if under 50 & you have the funds & can show proof..I'm thinking no problem.

Obviously you can't get the retirement extension because you have to be over 50 with sufficient proof of funds.

There is nothing written in stone yet..that I know of..and I could be totally wrong.

But I am thinking if you have the funds to show you can support yourself while in Thailand...

you shouldn't have a problem but time will be tell.

 

 

Thailand has a GDP of 360+ Billion baht a year. The economy will fall to its knees when the OP takes his million baht away with him    

Please don't forget he is not alone, but have 2/3 friends who will take their one million Baht out of Thailand too  Pffff

 

Well, if all young retirees and freelance workers do indeed leave for other countries, it will have a negative impact on certain sectors of the economy. On the other hand, if the old farts who spend their days (and nights) glued to barstools did, no one would notice the difference.

 

Talking about the grey hair brigade, I wonder whether those who constantly applaud the recent immigration "crackdown" would still feel the same way the day the Thai government decides it wants more "quality retirees" instead of sexpats and decides to increase the minimum income/money in the bank requirement for a retirement visa.

 

It's not about the young wealthy vs the old retirees in the OP....

it's about options for the young & wealthy at the moment.

The OP has options but unfortunately they might be to his liking.

re. your opinion...there are some retirees that don't have the minimum funds required..and the day Thai Immigration changes the money requirement then there will be those affected & they have to deal with their options.

There are options but if someone doesn't want to find the way for them to stay legally in Thailand...then they have to move on.

It's not that every young person is undesirable...if that is even an issue with Thai immigration..... just as there are not every old retiree that is a sexpat glued to a barstool.

There are rules or requirements for staying long time in Thailand...

the young or the old might not like them.

The issue is with Thai immigration & the rules they set...not a battle between young & old foreigners.

You're lucky you only pay ฿1500 last time I crossed the border 6 years ago I had to pay, I think it was ฿1800, when I asked why so much, they said because I was Canadian.

Different rates for different countries...always best to have exact US dollars than exchange to baht..I believe it's $42 US for Canadians & $35 US for Americans.

 

I don't agree with everything the OP said but many parts ring true, especially the Thai language/Ed visa part, I mean really, why would a westerner truly want to do that, because it looks good on the CV, come on now! Best of good fortune to you regardless.

 

I can tell you why I want to learn Thai.   Because I live in Bangkok and would like to make myself understood easily.

 

Of course the fact that Thailand is making it harder for those of us under 50 who have money to stay here also means I'm using the ED visa to solve that problem.

 

Young & wise is rare these days lol

If one plans to stay in Thailand learning to speak Thai is the smart way to go...

You have figured it out what to do to stay here.

Chok dee krup.
 

So much negativity in this this freaking place, if I didn't know any better I'd say there are two types of people here - sobber negative and alcoholics

 

The OP has a valid point, lets be honest, people running Thaialnd have no clue in what they are doing... TH has been spoiled and please gon't give me BS about the tourism money being only a small % of the countries revenue because it is this % that makes things move forward.

 

I too would spend more time in TH but given the BS Visa regulations I spend more time in VN or Cambodia.  In VN you have no problem getting multiple entry 3 month visa and it can be extended over and over with no major issue.  Cost of living is much lower and while the place is not as 'sophysticated' as Thailand there are many other things that make it cool to live in.  The way I see it, screw em, if they don't want my money there are many other places that will be happy to accept it

 

The way I see it Thailand is heading for a major recession, anyone who doesn't think this is the case needs to stop drinking for couple of days and look around, won't be long before the shit hits the fan and the Thais will be scratching their heads trying to figure out what happened and why... 

I also can't wait for the overpriced tiny condo market to crash - probably the biggest joke in Thailand! Make tiny shitty units, overprice em and let people buy them and think that they are making a good investement   LOL  Just like the OP mentioned the cost of most of the units has been blown out of proportion to the point where it even exceeds cost of units in the US which has a much higher average income and better rental opportunity with a much higher return.  In addition with the unstable government and 'legal' system of TH any realestate investement should be looked at as a high risk.

 

Thailand might have been one of the greatest places a while back, now unless your main activity consists of picking up bar girls it has less and less to offer...  With that said I still love the place - only hope that people on the top would finally started to care about the country and not their personal pockets.  With a bit of work, the place has huge potential that would benefit the expats and the locals.

 

 

 

I'd say there are 2 types of people here...

those with proper visas..& those that are bitter that they might not get one...

seems most with a potential visa problem blame Thailand & blame other posters who are not sympathetic to their situation & claim they will leave & are hoping Thailand will self destruct.

I understand the stress & anxiety of those with possible visa problems...

but if Thailand isn't for you..there are other places to live.

Just move on & be happy where you are.
 

The OP thread is " No Visa Options for the ones who are young and have money?"...well there are options.

They might not be great options but it's not like Thailand has decided to persecute the young wealthy people just as Thailand is not picking on the old with no money.

It's been suggested that if one is not sympathetic with the OP that one is jealous of his lifestyle.

Personally I wish he could have an easy option...I have never taken the ED Visa option..but sounds like a relatively easy process & many go this route & to pass is ..as expected easy also.

But unfortunately. Thailand gets to decide what the rules are...and if you want to live in Thailand on your criteria not Thai Immigration then yeah you might not have any options.

I am more sympathetic to those foreigners that have a Thai family..married with children...& they don't have money.

But in the end it doesn't matter what I think...or what they do in my country...

Thailand decides & one has to figure how best to navigate the process in order to live here.

Luckily the OP is wealthy & young so he has many options...but they might not include Thailand.