Morty

Toptrainer

It's always rough when those rose tinted spectacles are about to wear out , but we've all been there and most of us get over the disappointment. Don't worry to much, you will find yourself in a much better state once you have realized that Thailand might be paradise, but there sure are snakes in there

my best wishes for a quick recovery

Typical TV thread on this issue, you have two camps - One that you're keeneow and shouldn't mind, just bend over and take your medicine! Then theres the other that, rightly so, you should argue the toss out of it and get a fair deal.

Whenever I go to a place like that I try to ascertain the price first! But of course its not always possible as, you may come across as a keeneow in front of all the thais and, in this case, the thai gf.

The two camps, I think, are people coming from countries where a tip is customary, and the ones coming from places where tips is not common (i.e. Thailand, and certain parts of Europe). when it comes to being kee ne ow I found the easy solution. I let my wife handle the waiters when we eat at Thai restaurants. I have never experienced any bill padding at all, and we live in Pattaya. When it comes to tip, my wife tells me that we don't tip for normal service, if we get something extra, a tip is in order. According to my wife, there is no need for more than 20 baht tip on a Thai restaurant. I can assure all of you that my wife and I have never experienced rude behavior because of a 20 baht tip, and rest assured my wife would have reacted very badly toward anyone in charge, if that was ever to happen. I would dare saying that it is the big tippers that are most likely to have their bills padded (Thai ppl look at them as stupid, and they have words for it ) When we go to International restaurants I take care of the bill, with service charges, tip and all. My wife still thinks I'm giving away money regarding the tip , and she has lived and worked for eight years in Europe with me .

As a side note, we normally bring our kids along as well, and they are also Thai citizens (luk krungs) so that might have something to do with it.

When I go out alone I have found that making my order in Thai, I'm less likely to be scammed. So my suggestion is learn the Thai language or let your GF/wife do the orders or at least settle the bill, if you are in a Thai establishment.

When it comes to tips, notice that no one expects a tip from a Thai person, and are pleasantly surprised and happy when it happens, and IMHO just the way it should be.

As the saying goes: when in Rome.......

Thanks Morty,

The application hasn't been made. I was intending doing it around the 1st June. Just checking today what they wanted to see, as stuff has to come from England (bank statements/ tenancy agreement etc).

Hope I get as lucky as you.

I think you'd be fine as long as you have bank statements from abroad, but I guess you, as me, don't like immigration snooping into your offshore economy. One can only speculate as to why they do this.

Best of luck to you and your wife.

Morty

Some details first.

I'm a British citizen, 49 yrs old in Aug who's been married to a Thai national for coming on two years. I currently have a multi-entry Non O, issued from Hull on 21st Sept 2006. Expiry date 21st Sept 2007. My current entry stamp permits me to say until July 1st.

I follow this board daily and thought I was pretty au fait with the paperwork that was going to be necessary to get a year's extension. As some documents will have to come from England and I need the letter from The Embassy confirming my income, I decided to pop into the local Imm centre this morning to make a final check of what I'd need to support my application.

All went well and there were no surprises until it was categorically stated that I needed to show the minimum 40K per month being transferred into a Thai bank account.

I asked three times whether the Officer had got that correct. She even went and dug out some old applications (I didn't see how old, ie maybe prior to Oct 1st) but all of them had the letter from a Thai bank confirming the income over three months and copies of the relevant bank book details.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a letter from my Embassy (which they'll give, I've called them already) was sufficient to demonstrate the minimum 40k income. I didn't think that the money had to be transferred into Thailand any more (for income).

Can someone advise me if the information I was given today is correct? Everything I've read on this forum suggests it isn't.

If that is the case, can I go up and apply in BKK at Soi Suan Plu? That might be an alternative if my local office continues to possibly misread the new regulations.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I have more than twice the minimum income, but it's just far easier for me to leave it in the UK as I have a business to run there (namely, my property). My wife and I live on what we need month to month through ATM withdrawals. Some months 45k, some months 35k. Leaving it back home just makes my life so much easier in terms of property management - although not, by the sounds of things, a Thai visa extension.

hi sua yai

what immigration office are you applying at? I had the same problems as you when I was renewing my extension this year, I had to produce bank transcripts of my foreign accounts, that was satisfying for Pattaya immigration. You might get away with that, and a new application fee, as I did.

good luck

Morty

You could choose to use another immigration office.

Can this be done with a marriage extension, where the immigration office reserves the right to drop by and see if the two really live together? I don’t know but if somebody has done it, it would be good of him to post it here.

--

Maestro

A great deal will depend on where you live.

For example, if you live between Pattaya and Sri Racha, both towns have immigration offices

and you could use either.

If they need to visit they will come by car.

I live in Naklua just up the road from the Sanctuary of Truth, so I think I "sort" under immigration in Pattaya, by the way the immigration didn't visit us this year. I Like the immigration office in Jomtien, for everything else than extensions that is , besides I wouldn't like to go all the way to S.R. to do my 90 day reporting, witch I presume I would if I changed immi. office.

This is not a big problem for me, since I qualify either way, so hopefully I just drew a unlucky number this year, and next year (hopefully after elections, and a new government installed) I will get lucky and don't have any probs.

thanks again to all for giving input

Morty

Morty, I was always under the impression that in a situation like yours you would be “grandfathered” either way, showing income or 400K in the bank for an extension ofter October 1, 1006.

(6) In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

Source: Sunbelt’s translation of Police Order 606/2549

Unfortunately, however, it is possible for individual Immigration officers to interpret it differently.

Aside from that, with the income route for extension, with foreign-earned income I see the requirement as evidence of income, not evidence of remittance.

If the change from income to money in the bank is important for you and if Jomthien does not want to allow it, you may want to call Immigration head office for clarification.

--------------

Maestro

The way I read the police order I understand it to be either way, but the 1000$ question is how the immigration officer sees it. I qualify either way, I just didn't like being rejected on the bases of not transferring all my income, when I clearly had transferred more than 40 000/month. I have to admit though, my transfers where lump sums about 6 times last year and not monthly. maybe that was the reason, or maybe I just got unlucky this time. only time will tell. after all TiT. and the discretion of the immigration officer has to be respected . I will go and have a talk with them to find out how they will handle this, I let you all know what they tell me. It might be of interest to others on the forum as well. On the bright side I only have ten years left until I reach 50, and since I have two daughters here I guess I'm home free in about ten years

As a side note, I got my extension after I showed them transcripts of my offshore accounts, I just don't like to disclose that info. to Thai immigration.

By all rights they should be very happy if you show such transfers so with a little luck you will not have a repeat this year.

I hope not, I'm not up for renewal until feb. 08 so I have plenty of time to sort it out, but I guess it all comes down to the discretion of the immigration officer , and I know several people that have had problems with the "dragon lady" at pattaya immigration. I hate the added "excitement" in my life of being told I have to jump to these extra loops of showing my offshore accounts or else I have seven days to leave. That's why I thought it would be easier with the 400 000 if that is available to me. I guess I will have to go down to Jomtien and have "chat" with them and see if they think it's possible. Anyways thanks for your quick reply.

I'm pretty sure you can only get the 400,000 rule grandfathered if your previous extension used this route, looks like it's closed to you

Thanks for your reply Crossy, My extension is not up yet, so I can always ask immigration about it, but I guess they will try very hard to make me use my income, witch I don't have a problem with. but I don't intend to send all my income to Thailand. When the qualification is 40 000 that's what they should demand, not all of my income. But anyways TiT an all

Hi everyone

I got a question regarding my Non immigrant O visa. I have a visa Issued in 2005, being married to a Thai national. My visa has been extended two times, granted on the grounds of having foreign income of more than 40 000 bath a month.This visa was extended the first time before Oct. 2006, so I wonder, will I have the option of using 400 000 bath in the future or will I only have the income option since that's how I got it extended in the first place?

The reason I'm asking is that immigration in Pattaya was unhappy that I didn't transfer the same amount of money to my Thai bank that was documented by my embassy every month , and that will be the situation next year as well.

The 400,000 Baht isn't an option anymore. The 40,000 Baht can be a combination income from the Thai spouse and the husband. Is it possible you could show that

for a total of 40,000?

My problem isn't showing 40 000 a month, my problem is that I show much more than that, and consequently I'm not transferring all of my monthly income to Thailand, last year I transfered over 1.5 mill. baht, but since it was not done on a monthly basis, and my declared income is higher than that, immigration was unhappy about it.

The new rule is 40k so I suspect they will do there best to keep you using it - but you can ask.

Thanks for your answer lopburi, that's what I thought as well

Hi everyone

I got a question regarding my Non immigrant O visa. I have a visa Issued in 2005, being married to a Thai national. My visa has been extended two times, granted on the grounds of having foreign income of more than 40 000 bath a month.This visa was extended the first time before Oct. 2006, so I wonder, will I have the option of using 400 000 bath in the future or will I only have the income option since that's how I got it extended in the first place?

The reason I'm asking is that immigration in Pattaya was unhappy that I didn't transfer the same amount of money to my Thai bank that was documented by my embassy every month , and that will be the situation next year as well.

The best way to set up a non-profit organisation in Thailand is to buy a business, any business will do.

:D :D

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism)

Export and tourism account for about 60% of Thailand's GDP.

Well Goon, that means that Thailand needs 10.8 % increase in GDP just to correct the bath appreciation (witch was 18%) for those 60% last year, since it's measured in $. with a 4.5% total increase in GDP it seams to me that we have an actual depreciation of over 7%(since domestic sales also are quoted in $) and this year even looking worse, how does that bode well for the Thai people who will suffer from the lesser GDP, add to that the high rate of loan financed local economy (with chanotes as security) combined with little or no foreign capital coming into the Thai economy?

Less money in the marked will mean a higher interest rate, and less risk taking from foreign lenders.

Some people might say that is good for the Thai economy, I'm not.

I'm not very concerned about this, since my money live their life outside of Thailand, but I can see an increase in Thais losing their land and other collaterals witch in turn will make an increase in unemployment, leading desperate people to commit crimes like robbing, theft, kidnapping, human trafficking and so on. So everyone living in Thailand should be concerned about this.

PS!

where I live in Thailand we already see an increase in this, and I can assure you most of it never gets to the news rags.

Good luck!!

In regards to currency fluctuations, GDP is measured purely in $ terms, the Thai baht has increased 15% or so against the dollar, do you really fail to see the relevance? If so I'm intrigued at the reasoning behind that, especially when you are trying to measure it agianst an economy whos currency hasn't gained a similar amount.

Since the Thai economy is based on 70% exports (including tourism) the GDP for those sectors should be up by 15% only to be on level with last years volume so 4.5% is actually 10.5% down for 70% of Thai businesses. This would have a direct impact on Thai "buying power" add to that the amount of the inland Thai economy that is financed by loans, witch is dependent on foreign capital. With all the uncertainty of the investment climate in Thailand it would take a long time to regain investor confidence in this country.

Explain to me how this would not be a problem to the Thai society?

PS!

I don't have any business or investments in Thailand and I will not have any in the foreseeable future either, but I'm worried about my family who have to face these realities in their daily struggle.

So what is the appropriate way to train a dog to no longer chew at an ABS brake cable under a car? You'd think some duct tape could take care of this but is there anyway of correcting the dogs behaviour? A couple of days ago the dog chewed thru 7400 thb's worth of ABS cable and that night my wifes mother chained the dog to a pole thinking it would stop the dog from being under the car. Turned out to be a bad idea as the dog didn't like being chained to a pole and subseqently damaged a 10,000 thb plant pot trying to get free. Usually the dogs are treated well. Now the dog is wearing the cone shaped hat you see when dogs come out of the hospital to stop them biting at their stitches but this surely isn't a good long term solution?

I don't know if you can get them in Thailand, but there is this collar with a battery pack and a remote, with this you basically give your dog a electric shock every time it's getting near the car, a couple of weeks of this will make the dog avoid the car forever. This is harmless to the dog, it's used in my home country to train hunting dogs not to attack sheep. This is high voltage, low amp. a little like the electric fences used for cattle.

good luck!

Sorry about the trouble firstly,

I understand that i can apply it in the airport. as to where i am not very sure. But because i wont be in Bangkok from april 30 - may 19th ( the day i fly out of kingdom) and when i do leave the kingdom, i only have 1hour 30 mins to transit from samui (bangkok air) - tiger air. (bangkok).

So would i be able to apply for re entry permit first or really have to do the last minute application when i depart on 19th( very tight timing)

You can apply for a reentry permit at any immigration office at any time it cost you 1000 bath for a single and it will be valid until permitted to stay date in your pp. the procedure is strait forward and won't take you more than 5-10 min. There is an immi. office in Nathon

My brother is about to marry his Thai girlfriend. They met whilst he was on holiday last month and he has decided to fly back, marry her and live there.

I am of the opinion that as an adult he can weigh the pros and cons himself and make his own decisions and if this is the path he chooses good luck to him.

I want to send a wedding present for my new sister in law. Can anyone tell me what i should be sending and to whom? I do not want to offend the bride or her family.

My parents will not be sending any gifts or similar so the only acknowledgement from the family in the UK will come from me.

Many thanks in anticipation....

Oh I am a younger sister if it makes a difference?

An envelope with bath would not offend anyone, and will make her gain face with her family and friends.

(unless you can talk your brother out of it, that is )

Hi all, I have had a motorcycle lisence for over a year (it's expired) my car drivers licence will expire on the 3. of april. Will I be able to renew both of them for five years if I went today (tomorrow actually) ? all other paperwork are in order. The reason I ask, is that I will leave for europe on the 28. of March, and I will have an expired driver lisence by the time I get back. After all I've had a thai driver lisence for more that a year (including the lisence for the motocy) or is the rule one year for the lisence you're applying for?

will I have any chances? anyone tried this?

PS!

sorry if this has been asked and answered before

Morty

I was extending my non O visa based on marriage the other day.

I went to the immi. in Pattaya with all my paperwork (the same as I used last year). My thai bank does not have regular transfers, but I have transfered allmost 500.000 bath just to be sure to be over the 40.000 bath a month requirement (if it is a requirement when you have a government certified pension)

I am a Norwegian citizen and have a government pension from Norway. My original papers are issued from the ministry of finance in Norway, and noterized by the court in my home town. I also went to the Norwegian consulate here in Pattaya to get all the paperwork certified by the Norwegian embassy. Guess what! I got rejected, and the reason was that I wasn't trasfering 40.000 every month.

so I had to produce bank statements from my Norwegian bank (witch showed I had spent another 1.500.000 bath withdrawn from ATM machines), and make a new application so I had to pay application fees twice to get my visa.

The immi. officer assured me that everything was OK conserning my paperwork, but 500.000 bath a year was not enough to support my family.

So I guess rejecting applicants on no relevant grounds, and demanding extra application fees is the new way for the government to tax us.

I was at immi. the first time one month before my previous ext. expired and nobody mentiend any foreign bank statments at that point witch gave me 3 days (4 of my 7 days where allready past) to produce 13 months of bank statements

but I guess TiT

Morty

On a one year ext. At double price.

PS!

the moment my bank statements where present I got the stamp in 10 min.

In Bangkok, with the copy of the pension and the statement of income notarized by the Embassy/Consulate. Is all the proof needed to get approved for income. You do not need to show any bank statement.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

tnx for your quick reply!

My first application was sendt to Bangkok, or at least that's what Pattaya immi. claims, and they where telling me that it was BKK who wanted the extra bank statements, and that they where also the ones sitting on the paperwork for a month. that what makes me confused.

Sending them extra documentation should not, IMO, require a new application fee.

But, then again, TiT. It might be a new way of collecting tea money.

Does the law require you to send more then 40.000 on a monthly basis?

I was extending my non O visa based on marriage the other day.

I went to the immi. in Pattaya with all my paperwork (the same as I used last year). My thai bank does not have regular transfers, but I have transfered allmost 500.000 bath just to be sure to be over the 40.000 bath a month requirement (if it is a requirement when you have a government certified pension)

I am a Norwegian citizen and have a government pension from Norway. My original papers are issued from the ministry of finance in Norway, and noterized by the court in my home town. I also went to the Norwegian consulate here in Pattaya to get all the paperwork certified by the Norwegian embassy. Guess what! I got rejected, and the reason was that I wasn't trasfering 40.000 every month.

so I had to produce bank statements from my Norwegian bank (witch showed I had spent another 1.500.000 bath withdrawn from ATM machines), and make a new application so I had to pay application fees twice to get my visa.

The immi. officer assured me that everything was OK conserning my paperwork, but 500.000 bath a year was not enough to support my family.

So I guess rejecting applicants on no relevant grounds, and demanding extra application fees is the new way for the government to tax us.

I was at immi. the first time one month before my previous ext. expired and nobody mentiend any foreign bank statments at that point witch gave me 3 days (4 of my 7 days where allready past) to produce 13 months of bank statements

but I guess TiT

Morty

On a one year ext. At double price.

PS!

the moment my bank statements where present I got the stamp in 10 min.

i have to agree with the junta on this one, if it costs a thai person $330 a month to buy these drugs which is more than a lot of Thais even earn, plus depending on their illness they might not even be capable of working, and if taking these drugs or not is a matter of life and death or even prolonging someones life and giving them a better life then go ahead. the drug companies are some of the greediest b@stards in the world, while i understand they need a lot of money for R&D they still make staggering profits, there is no need for them to charge the prices they do to countries in Asia/Africa where only the rich and not the average person can afford these life saving drugs. especially if a generic version of the drug can be produced for 10% of the cost, a big difference paying $330 a month as to $33 a month. I think the first thing they've done i agree with.

BB

Boo Hoo. It is because of the stealing of patents that there is so little innovation in the world. Do you really think they are going to spend money on researching cures for AIDS when every Tom Dick and Harry can just simply declare an emergency and copy which ever drugs they want for free? What would encourage ANY company to spend billions on R&D when someone will just come along and copy it for free. Why bother in the first place?

All fine and well he says that drugs companies are greedy, yet it is those same companies that our pensions and retirement plans invest in. They turn a profit, we get better retirement benefits. Who is greedy, the companies or us?

THESE illnesses that we are talking about is not the Bird Flu, Ebola or the West Nile virus, they are PREVENTABLE. The WHO clause is being read like most people read the bible. They interpret it the way it suits their needs or desires. The clause was originally for national emergencies for diseases that were not only contagious but also beyond control in terms of spread. The clause was to prevent mass contamination. Heart disease in Asia, maybe they should encourage people to eat healthy and not stick hamburgers in their faces at every opportunity. Was it not Thailand that spoke last year about the state of children's diets that are making them obese? Has the use of condoms not been advocated in Africa?

We infringe on others rights, those same rights we expect others will uphold in respect of our businesses. Yet because we suffer from tunnel vision, we demand that others surrender their rights to their intellectual property. Why? Simple because it is a short term solution to our greed and ineptness.

Dear sir,

If you are going to explain the lesser innovation, by stealing of patents you don't know cr@p about them. Patents the way they're implimentet in the US, are hindering innovation. you can basicly patent anything you want, and the USPTO would more than probably grant it (unless it obvious like a number or something like that) If some other R/D dep. in another company gets an idea, and develop something useful using this idea. It could still bee patented by some "patentholding" company, that would sue your a** of you the moment you start to make money, and it will be you who will be trying to show prior art or whatever to get the patent innvalidated. So to blame lack of innovation because there are to few of them could only be comming from a patent holder with a dream

<rant over>

back on topic, as long as the WHO doesn't see a problem with it either do I

Morty

The government is feeling pressure from small retailers over the TL and Carrefour presence and expansion.

Samesame in the USA where some states and municipalities have brought pressure over Wal-Mart's ability and desire to crush local retailers.

And many European municipalities have very strict rules about large chains as well.

Yes, they offer low prices which delights academic economists and sundry number crunchers but on balance they take more than they give by robbing communities of family businesses, turning mom and pop entrepreneurs into minimum-wage slaves and erecting sterile ugly monoliths blighting the landscape.

Exactly. I'm all for all these big international retailers to sod off from Thailand asap really, but that's not possible. The way they have been expanding in Thailand with little or no control at all is casuing a lot of small businesses to go out of business. And a lot of people at grassroot level have been greatly impacted. The Thai government must insure that majority of their people can still be busniess owners and don't all end up working in factories or as little paid employees. They have the find a balance between accepting globalisation and protecting their own citizens at grassroot levels.

It's interesting that the anti international retailer posts of which the above is typical never touch on "the elephant in the room" which is that the advent of Tesco,Carrefour, Tops etc have made life easier and cheaper for many millions of Thais, providing better service and more choice.Tesco Lotus which is the chain I know best has also had a very positive effect on the local economy.That's not to say there isn't a legitimate debate about the pros and cons as there has been of course all over the world including the USA.Sadly mom and pop stores will have difficulties although this has as much to do with 7-11 etc.But to ignore or underestimate the huge benefits to the Thai people of the big retailers is strange.Remember much of the opposition is driven/funded by old fashioned Thai retailers who just couldn't compete in terms of modern business efficiencies and are looking to recover their position through political lobbying rather than pulling their socks up and giving the customer a better deal.

You hit the nail right on the head , couldn't have been said better

But then again I only have a 19th year perspective of it

I heard they were going to cancel the card soon.

First they privatize it, with no govt. involvment/responsibillity. Then they run it in the red for a while (a year or two), and get bankrupted by their debtors no money left all members lost their money.

TiT

Perhaps the reason the death penalty is not a deterrent for these types of crimes, is because it is not given often enough, because of the bleeding heart liberals; unless of course its their daughters, their children, that have been raped and beaten to death, murded, molested etc. They do seem to sing a different tune at those times.

I know for sure, that would soemthing like rape/murder happen to someone in my my (thai) fasmily. There would bee a possie out to find the perps. And I don't think there would've been any police involvment at all

karma will sort them out!

TiT

I knew that, Gary, but I wasn't sure if there's a word overtorqued. I get torqued off. Old Harley's had lousy power, great torque.

My question is: how uncontrollable are these rear wheel drive pickups with monstrous torque, in real life? Who really needs to start off in second gear?

My isuzu with a 2.5 turbodiesel starts in second gear all the time

And btw.

It does a 130 km/h on a good day, so it's not a "high powered/high speed" car

and it's very controllable at those speeds