Gecko123

♫ consider yourself deported consider yourself blacklisted ♫ [sung to tune of Broadway musical 'Oliver' theme song] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsyiMn6OPQA

I think you interpreted my post as implying your post was redundant. That wasn't my intention at all. Only referenced past topic for benefit of anyone who might be interested in additional responses to the same question.

same topic raised a while back:

Uncertainty about future fiscal viability of entitlement programs plays a role, as does uncertainty about financial impact of climate change on food inflation, extreme weather events, etc. Frugality in rural Thailand is a smart move. Ostentatious displays of wealth work against efforts to build community in a small farming community. Also travel, which has traditionally been an attractive leisure activity in retirement, has lost much of its appeal because of over-tourism, rising costs, and growing awareness about the impact it has on the environment. I think people are moving towards a more simple living lifestyle, less consumer oriented, and more community oriented as they get older.

The farmer isn't as stupid or naive as it might appear at first blush. The scam sounds pretty sophisticated, preying on the Thai deference to authority figures. The authentic looking police ID, the threat to freeze the account and implying that the scammer had access to activity and balance info on the account, it's not difficult to imagine how an elderly farmer could be duped. These news summaries of how a scam works never do justice to just how sophisticated they can be.

Thai law appears to state that in order for bodily harm to be deemed justifiable it has to be shown that the person committing the bodily injury was acting "in order to prevent an affray, defined as "an instance of fighting in a public place that disturbs the peace" or acting in lawful self-defense. See page 27 of 35 Title X Offense against Life and Body Chapter 2 Offense against body in attached extract: https://www3.ago.go.th/center/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Criminal-Code-1956.pdf Although being repeatedly pestered and grabbed at might be considered a mitigating factor when considering punishment, it's highly doubtful that under the circumstances shown in the video that sucker punching someone in the face would be deemed lawful self-defense under Thai law.

Figuring out whether your spouse's behavior is acceptable by local cultural standards is an excellent place to start the evaluation process of whether your spouse is behaving appropriately. Guys who constantly make disparaging generalizations about Thai men almost never know how to speak the language and have never formed a meaningful relationship with a Thai man. Their opinions about Thai men are based exclusively on crime news reports and bar girl sob stories about being mistreated by their former husbands and boyfriends. They eagerly lap this Kool-aid up because it bolsters their self-image as the white-knight rescuing the Thai damsel in distress and assuages their guilt about being a sex-tourist.

Very few, if any, Thai guys would.

The woman in the yellow dress does appear to physically initiate contact with the other foreigner who was walking ahead. He brushes her arm away and then she turns her attention to the second guy who ultimately sucker punches her. One thing that caught my attention is that her girlfriend dressed in black pants and a white blouse who immediately came to her aid and gave chase after the two foreigners, seemed to have been hanging back almost as if she was concealing the fact that she and her companion were together. It makes me wonder if the altercation wasn't some sort of a pickpocket or snatch theft ruse.

I think that's a cheap shot. Anyone who has spent an extended period of time away from red light districts and has the language skills to interact with Thai women in every day life situations will soon realize that what is available in bar settings is far from the cream of the crop of Thai womanhood.

My light-hearted attempt at self-deprecating humor seems to have gone right over your head.

speak for yourself

Twenty years ago when that article was written, it was very popular for bar girls from rural Thailand (not just Isaan) to encourage naive foreign men to marry for the express purposes of getting them to buy land (registered in the Thai spouse's name and build houses) or as a vehicle to emigrate overseas for a better life. It was almost entirely motivated by economics (especially when there was a big age gap between the girl and the foreign husband), and as long as there was a windfall in terms of real estate and other personal property, there was little concern about whether the marriage lasted. In some cases, it was preferable for it to not last, in that it provided an opportunity to do it all over again. While I'm not saying how well a foreign man performed as a husband and a father was of no consequence, the mythology that foreign men are perceived more favorably than Thai men as a spouse is just that: mythology. It is a vestige of the bar girl's eternal lament: "him no good, him no have money, him beat me, him cheat on me, him drug addict...) designed to induce sympathy in the gullible mark. The "farang man make better husband and father" cliche also serves the psychological purpose of papering over the fact that in the vast majority of cases, the main motive is pecuniary. The internet has done a lot to kill off these myths, and the number of foreign men going down the "move to rural Thailand" route has dropped off. Foreigners have become more sophisticated about land law and protecting their financial interests in real estate. They have also become a lot more cynical and cautious about getting involved, and unlike 20 years ago, when things go belly up, they can go on on-line forums like this and pick other men's brains. It is dumbfounding that the OP has been able to maintain his level of ignorance about Thai culture in the age of the internet. It's good that he has been asking questions, but he has shown a consistent pattern of displaying an abysmal level of ignorance about the subtleties of Thai culture, and the authoritative tone he often adopts when sharing his "knowledge" about Thai culture is totally inappropriate. The phrase "knows enough to be a danger to himself" comes to mind. What the OP needs to learn is only going to come with time, and I suspect he is the type of person who will have to learn things the hard way, but for the record I will again counsel: "Slow down!" The image that pops into my mind every time the OP opens his mouth:

You know, for someone who supposedly has recently just arrived in SE Asia, and is supposedly getting married in the near future, plans to deliver a speech in Thai at the wedding reception, plans to build a house, purchase rental properties and farm land, plans to learn Thai in the next three months, and plans to start the application process for Thai citizenship in the near future, anyone would be forgiven for asking you the same question.

There is a shockingly high number of foreign men living in Thailand with their Thai spouse who harbor bigoted opinions about other racial groups (including other Thais, especially Thai men), ethnic groups (especially Muslims). The psychological dissonance required to hold these opposing views is truly remarkable, but understandable when you consider the need to get laid. The final statement in your OP, which appears to pander to your fellow ex-pats racial biases, was offensive, and suggests you think you are entitled to pass judgment on a woman's past sexual history. By the way, do you not think that in a 20+ year history of working in a massage parlor, your girlfriend/fiancee has never had a black client she has sexually serviced?

These threads always seem to lean in one direction or the other. Either it's "my ex-bar girl wife is the greatest thing since sliced bread and we've been together forever and a day", or there's the "there are so many wholesome girls in Thailand, why would you ever hook up with a hooker?" crowd. I'm not passing judgement on anyone who falls in love with someone working in a bar and ends up getting into a relationship with them. But I do question the advisability and odds of success, especially nowadays, for the following reasons. This is from the perspective of someone who has lived in rural Thailand and has had a front row seat to observe the background of many young women who end up in the skin trade. It has been my observation that the vast majority come from single parent households and economically depressed backgrounds with low levels of academic achievement, and very limited parental guidance. The vast majority of the women have already had at least one child and have separated from the father of the children before they get into the skin trade. In years gone by, these young women were likely to have at least been raised by one of their parents and that that parent had been raised in turn by his or her parent, most likely in a farming household. So the values and guidance that was being transferred from one generation to the next was still fairly strong. But over the years, in more and more cases, the caregiver who is looking after the child has themselves been raised by a non-parental relative and is often only superficially engaged with the child's rearing and doing it largely to supplement their income. Particularly in regards to academic focus, moral instruction, and providing an emotionally secure and nurturing environment the level of care is substandard. So these young women grow up with a hardscrabble "a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do" mentality. What I'm saying is that because of this erosion of parental guidance (driven mainly by urbanization which forces parents to move to metropolises for work and leave their children in rural settings which has been going on for more than a half-dozen generations already), the character and breeding (if you will) of these women who end up working in red light districts seems to have degraded over the years. Another observation is that as Thailand has moved away from an agrarian based economy and more towards industrial output, more academic and employment opportunities have opened up in the past 30 - 40 years for women and these opportunities have siphoned off a considerable amount of bar girl "talent" so to speak. It has been my observation (if only from watching U-tube videos) that this explains why both the physical and personal attributes of these women seems to have dropped precipitously in recent years. Certainly, you do hear old timers on this forum waxing nostalgically about the "good old days" which would seem to confirm this. You also hear on threads about how the skin trade has become more mercenary, higher priced, and that many of the women have scant interest in overnight much less being a "holiday wife" or exploring ongoing relationships. My point is that this change in dynamics is probably causing a shift in the type of woman attracted to this line of work: harder, more mercenary, less engaging, more focused on quantity over quality... Another factor which impacted perceptions about whether the sex trade was an attractive career choice was Prayut's famous speech, very early on his administration, in which he posed the rhetorical question to the Thai people: "Aren't you ashamed?" in reference to Thailand's reputation as a sex-tourism capital. I think that had a very dampening affect on the social acceptability of the sex industry and discouraged many women from pursuing this line of work. Even before this speech, the superficial observation voiced earlier on this thread that Thais take a strictly laissez-faire attitude towards people engaged in sex work is simply not true. While Thais are by nature reluctant to voice judgment, there is definitely a degree of stigma attached to the activity. Aside from job opportunities, Thailand's women probably also have better marital prospects than they had in years gone by. They are more geographically mobile, more connected on social media, and enjoy more social mobility (romances at workplaces and school settings), which means that rural women looking for socio-economic advancement opportunities via marriage have less need to go to a bar setting to achieve their goals. You often hear on threads like these from guys who claim to be happily married to bar girls for decades on end, and I'm genuinely happy for them when this occurs. But aside from the longevity of the relationship, there is the issue of the quality of the companionship the relationship provides. There is such a thing as a dead relationship, devoid of any emotional, spiritual, intellectual or physical stimulation. I have seen a handful of marriages which fit this description, often handicapped by cultural and language barriers which could not be transcended. The couple having limited conversational or social interaction with each other, passing like ships in the night. So you gotta think about what's gonna sustain the relationship after the honeymoon phase wears off. These comments are directed at anyone reading this thread weighing the advisability of getting seriously involved with a bargirl. Anything is possible, but my advice would be that the odds of successfully finding a long term life partner are probably higher if you look elsewhere.

Maybe there aren't always physical "mileage" issues and I agree that "morality" issues are very subjective and relative, but character issues do give me pause. Especially if the process of extracting money from clients goes beyond a quid pro quo exchange of sexual favors for money and gets into the realm of manipulating guys (sometimes multiple guys at a time) to fork over monthly stipends, feigning compatibility (up to you), making empty happily-ever-after promises in order to get them to build homes and buy land registered in her name, or fabricating hard-luck stories, etc., etc. Then you're talking about whether they can be trusted, and in many cases, an almost sociopathic lack of empathy is required to successfully pull off the charade.

Very interesting documentary on this subject. Would seem to have numerous implications for the retiree ex-pat whether one is looking for a younger girlfriend/wife, outlook for nursing home demand, or insight into why the government may be looking for ways to increase tax revenues. My main take away was about the importance of paying attention to your physical and mental health as much as possible.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/01/poll-trump-conviction-election-independent-voters

If that Axios poll saying a high percentage of independents think Trump should drop out of the race is confirmed by followup polls, that has to be very ominous sign for the Trump campaign. Saying that you think someone should drop out of a race is expressing far stronger disapproval than simply saying you are less likely to vote for them. There's an "ickiness" factor to being a convicted felon, even if it's "only" for a so-called white collar crime, which is going to repel large sectors of the electorate, especially suburban voters. There is also an issue amongst voters who see themselves as proud and patriotic Americans with voting for a convicted felon to be America's most prominent representative on the world stage. My sense is that the fever spell may finally be breaking, and that the collapse in support for Trump may be far more precipitous than it appears to be in the immediate aftermath of the verdict. https://www.axios.com/2024/06/01/poll-trump-conviction-election-independent-voters

Everything purchased during the marriage is not automatically marital property. If you use money that you acquired before marriage to buy any property - including land -then that property legally belongs to you, but you have to be able to prove that you owned the money that was used to purchase the property you are claiming is your individual property. In order to understand this properly you have to carefully review the Thai Civil Code section pertaining to what is defined as marital property and what is defined as individually owned (sin sun tua) property. The reason so many foreigners think that anything purchased during the marriage is "marital" property is because the Thai code uses the very ambiguous and legally imprecise wording "dai" or "ได้" which gets translated to "gets" or "acquires". But what exactly does "acquired" or "gets" mean? The intent of the law is that everything that the couple "earns" or acquires through their mutual effort as a couple through work and if they have assets which appreciated or generated income during the marriage all that appreciation and income is indeed split 50/50. The intent of the law only becomes clear when you read BOTH the definitions of marital and individual property. With that said, you are over a barrel and to a large extent at the mercy of your wife in terms of forcing a sale of any land and permanent fixtures and improvements on the land, i.e., a house. If she decides to refuse to cooperate or does a disappearing act the mechanisms for forcing her to comply are very cumbersome involving protracted court dates, potential appeals, and even if/when you get a judgement in your favor, enforcing that judgment can be an extremely frustrating process. Another major obstacle is the location of the land and the house. If you built a house in say the extended family compound, few people outside the extended family are going to be interested in buying a house in someone else's family compound. Farm land is an entirely different matter, and chances are can be unloaded very quickly if the price is right. I'm sorry to say this, but in almost every case I've seen, following a divorce, the foreign guy basically walks away without extracting any funds in the process. Another problem - at least out in the countryside - is that if a foreigner builds a McMansion house quite often the market value is very limited because: (1) the price is much higher than the locals can afford, and (2) often has been built to specifications which don't really lend themselves to a farm lifestyle, plus Thais have this thing about "used" homes sometimes. Here is the civil code referencing the definitions of marital and individual property: https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/civil-and-commercial-code-marriage-section-1465-1493/ Sections 1471 and 1472 are the two most important sections. You will quickly see that Sections 1471 and 1472 contradicts Section 1474 if you interpret "acquired" (gets) to mean everything purchased. As a first step in the reasoning/negotiating process with your wife, you might want to enlist the support of the Puu Yai and the Amphoe District manager, possibly with the help of an attorney, but I would endeavor to avoid getting into an all out battle because, as I said, with the property registered in her name, she is going to be in the driver's seat throughout the process. Edit: Your wife also has the potential power to manipulate the market demand for this property. She can collude with potential buyers to low-ball the offering price and work behind the scenes to undermine interest in potential buyers [Hummin's post above about property sitting on the market forever and a day reminded me of this] @Hummin

Part of the pre-sentencing review process is to evaluate whether an offender is likely to offend again. Trump's narcissism and sense of entitlement border on being legendary, and there is reason to consider whether a psychological pathology underlies his behavior. Trump has a long history of civil infractions (sexual assault, slander, fraud, tax evasion, etc.) and multiple criminal cases which are pending, so there are many who would disagree with your blithe assessment that he presents no danger to society.

These same people who were screaming 'Lock Her Up' about someone who was never indicted or convicted of anything, are now saying America has turned into a banana republic because someone who benefited from a highly respected legal team was convicted by a jury of ordinary citizens in the same city in which the crimes occurred. It's starting to look to me like the only thing 'law-and-order' means to these people is that choke hold and stand-your-ground deaths involving African American victims can almost always safely be presumed to have been justified.

I wonder if Trump will be required to undergo any type of psychological evaluation as part of the pre-sentencing evaluation or if Trump will be required to attend psychological counseling as part of his sentence.

There have been scores of elected officials given prison sentences for criminal activity. The President of the US should not enjoy special consideration; fear of political polarization or violence should not factor into the sentencing decision.