LanceGringo

I hate to say it but a friend told me of a sight showing photos of the victims. In my mind the hoe was certainly the murder weapon , are they not already

doing DNA tests on the bloodied handle and blade ? What police are investigating , local or experts from Bangkok , if Thailand has such a thing ?

The hoe was the murder weapon eh? - well, thanks for clearing that up for us Mr Stating-The-Obvious

Anymore insightful comments?

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The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

Keep making public statements like this guys. It just shows your total lack of experience, and that you are unqualified to investigate a crime of this nature.

I don't see how putting the hoe back where they found it, instead of throwing it away, proves they are cold blooded killers, although I don't doubt they are. Putting the hoe back may have been done to throw the police off into thinking that the person who owns this hoe, like the guy who cleans the beach, is the prime suspect. Like he needed it the next day to so his work so he put it back.

As I said all along I wouldn't count Christopher Ware totally out of the picture right yet. If you are reading this Chris then I am sorry but having bloody clothes in your bag, and leaving in a hurray looks very suspicious. Even if the blood is yours. Especially when Miller had bruised fists and the blood could be from a nose bleed he cause you during the fight. Hope you have a solid alibi.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I am not sure I would walk my very attractive girlfriend down an isolated beach, after drinking, at two in the morning, and past 3 strangers. I for sure know she would not want me to. But then if I knew at least one person, as in Miller knowing Ware, and he was my roommate, then I don't think it would bother me then. Maybe even give me more of a comfort feeling.

Hum???

Who said or where does it say that the victims walked past three strangers?

It appears difficult for many TV posters to comprehend a world where they are not the center of attention.

Cannot grasp that many Thai nationals livelihoods depend on tourism and they might be anxious to learn Britons' reaction to the gruesome murders.

I couldn't care less about the Thai peoples livelihoods being affected by this crime. Two innocent young people have been murdered whilst they were guests on this island, so the how this affects tourism for Thailand/the Thai people is absolutely of zero importance considering what has happened.

Thank you for making my point.

Blame the entire society for the crime of one. Make the entire country suffer because of the actions of one.

Thats justice, eh?

Nobody is blaming anybody, my point is that two innocent young people being murdered, and bringing the criminals to justice is far more important and of concern that anything related to tourism, or lack of tourism. Let's get our priorities straight.

How many threads do we need on this?

Is 1 not satisfactory or do wee need a fresh one every day with a different title?

YES

Jonathan Head may aswell just come out with it, and say what we're all thinking;

The entire investigation has been a complete and utter shambles. Inept, clueless, unprofessional and total disaster.

God only knows what the poor families think of all this. The Thai police should be prosecuted for gross negligence, as it now looks as if this crime will remain forever unsolved, whereas if it had of been handled better from the start the culprits could have at least been identified by now.

Or if you were to look at it another way, exactly how you would want to handle it if you didn't want the real truth to ever be known as per many previous 'investigations' but unfortunately for the authorities this time it looks like the Western media will really push the point home that you cannot expect real safety or justice in Thailand which like I said earlier will come back to haunt the whole of the LOS for a long time. The people who I really feel sorry for the most in all this are the poor innocent people murdered so brutally and their families who could never have expected such brutality or incompetence in the LOS :-( #RIP

Yeah perhaps the police have purposely overlooked certain things, so that they can protect 'someone'

Either that, or they are just genuinely the most hapless police force in modern times

Perhaps they've got the results but are still no closer to knowing who did this or at least the results didn't go to script. It's all looking very awkward for the BIB whichever way you slice it.

"Dr Pornchai said he expected results of DNA tests on the two victims would be known by Thursday afternoon."

One thing I never understand in these types of cases here, is that the crime scene is never sealed off for forensics, just a few hours after and there are all sorts of people all over the crime scene.

Been to some? Seen what happens? Or just a casual observation from pictures in the press?

No, just from all the other cases I have followed over the years.....and seems the same has happened again here......

"BBC south-east Asia correspondent Jonathan Head said police have admitted they "really don't know where to look now".

He said investigators had several problems, including that the crime scene was not sealed off and people were not stopped from leaving Koh Tao after the killings."

"Growing questions about the police's handling of the case are emerging, particularly over why they did not seal off the island following the murders and why they only appeared to conduct significant forensic work around the crime scene on Wednesday, more than 48 hours after the crime."

Jonathan Head may aswell just come out with it, and say what we're all thinking;

The entire investigation has been a complete and utter shambles. Inept, clueless, unprofessional and total disaster.

God only knows what the poor families think of all this. The Thai police should be prosecuted for gross negligence, as it now looks as if this crime will remain forever unsolved, whereas if it had of been handled better from the start the culprits could have at least been identified by now.

Mixed seemen in she vagina, it can still be one guy that done it, probaly the dead english had sex with she, and the killer ,killed him and raped the women,, did not see anybody of your smart guys here think off this..

According to reports, a condom was also found at the scene.

Ok, I have bitten. After years of promising myself not to engage and post on this site the ‘hogwash’ I have seen spouted on this topic has made me do so. I would also like to state, as most people don’t seem to understand this, that these are my opinions. We all have different ones.

- The Thai police are known for corruption, incompetence, being lent on and accepting cash. Please notice I did not say all policemen. If you have lived here long enough you will know that collecting money is more important than upholding laws. With this as a basis for policing I have no faith in them. Releasing the wrong CCTV and potentially contaminating a crime scene is not good work. Nor is stating that no Thai person could do this when weekly reports come through on train rapes, shootings in restaurants etc

-The PM’s comments on bikinis are crass, clumsy and unbecoming of a leader. To me it reflects more poorly on his estimation of his fellow countrymen that they cannot control themselves and smacks of the ‘she was asking for it’ argument. Abhorrent. I agree that tourists need to take sensible measures to ensure their safety, flashing cash etc same as every other country in the world

-Foreigners behavior. Totally agree that any visitor should adhere to all local laws and customs. Sex on a beach at 6am (if it did happen) is at most rude but I understand it could offend people. Is a suitable reaction smashing two peoples skulls in? I have never been to a full moon party, for a man in his 40’s they look like a nightmare. If Thais don’t like what happens there then stop them. Oh, but then the money stops too right?

-People who know a lot more than me have talked for years about the monopoly down on islands like K Tao. They are run by influential families and the police work for them. They get paid mind.

-Many have offered up theories with no proof on here. I am now going to join in but please note this is just what I think might have happened drawing on my experiences here and by talking to Thai friends. I have no proof, no evidence and am not categorically stating this is true. The woman was approached by a local on the island (Thai/ Burmese/ whatever, not important) was knocked back or the guy stepped in, loss of face, maybe words exchanged, locals follow when they leave/ are waiting for them. No one person, race of people should be ruled in or out. Everything should be done to catch whoever did this.

- It is clear, in my opinion, that the primary concern of the PM is the image of the country not justice.

- Double standards. Back to foreigners behavior. In a country where a couple of thousand baht can buy you anything you want, and please don’t think its just Cowboy and Nana, Petcaburi Rd massages etc is not for farang, a woman cannot safely wear a bikini. Visitors should not get too drunk at parties and get wild but activities such as motorcycle racing, drink driving are let go? Laws that are written in statute are not upheld.

-This seems to have been overlooked, that person is still out there. That should be a huge worry not just for catching them but for potential to repeat.

-Questioning and checking the stories of the couples friends is a great idea and of course should be done. Releasing mixed statements on arrests, ‘fleeing’ the country and showing their pictures should not be done. Simple statement along the lines of ‘ We are currently questioning two people of interest who are not under arrest as much to rule them out as to rule them in’. Done. No one should be ruled out or in based on their nationality.

- Lastly, and most importantly, 2 young people who had their whole lives in front of them have been brutally murdered. Not passed away, killed. Think of their parents, brothers, sisters, friends and family. We have all read what might have happened to them in their last few minutes. Think of the parents receiving this news, travelling to the airport, the flight and body identification. Now tell me they were asking for it, that in ANY way this kind or reaction should be expected. Not in a world I want to live in.

I have probably missed loads of points, mis-spelt words, I don’t write so coherently but every time I read of more details coming out it fills me with such sadness. Please feel free to disagree with any of my points, I hope I have explained that these are my own personal opinions, not fact, and that you are all free to your own.

Sorry this was so long.

Good post mate

They are keeping the Brits so that they don't lose face today with the General.

Quite awful people, really.

The thing is, the idiot Colonel shot his mouth off yesterday morning that the farang " probably " did the crime because in his deranged, infantile imagination the cretin has concluded it was a crime of passion perpetrated by farang because of jealousy, irrespective of the fact there is not a single shred of evidence to support this daft theory other than a political desire to convict a farang so as to preserve their revenue from tourism.

When will the British press finally wake up to this fact and galvanise someone in authority to make representations to what passes for a Thai government.

The British ambassador is absolutely useless.

The British press have already done that, today. Common afairs group plus a whole bunch of MPs are on the case now it seems. The police are akin to the keystone cops. They've ruled everybody under suspicion out by DNA, they let the migrant workers go but are still holding Chris Ware (who was David Miller's best friend) and his twin. Why? The police are next to useless and so is Prayuth. Unless he's bullying motor-bike taxi drivers into wearing the same colour vests, he is clueless.

I hear no mention of the hoe. Surely the hoe was not just lying at the murder scene and was picked up to do the killing. The hoe must have be carried from some place. What place and by whom? Is someone missing a hoe?

A valid point indeed. The police also seem to have no interest in the local (one of the 3 families) thug who was showing a lot of unwanted interest in the girl and the fact that he and Miller had a bit of an altercation when Miller stepped in and asked him to leave - all of this has been tweeted by the girl and her friends/

How have you seen her tweets/friends tweets about any of this??

Here's a fact, somebody who was in Koh Tao posted on her Facebook that Hannah and Dave had a problem with a Thai man in the bar.

This means the Thai man could have been Thai, or Burmese or Asian.
Thai, and Burmese hang out at the bars because they work there or their friends work there or they are a FIRE dancer.

A hoe tool is used by the fire dancers on the beach to set the beach up with fire activities.

I don't know what happened I'm just pointing out what I read in her Facebook and also what friends of mine have told me, friends who work in bars and dive shops in Koh Tao.

SirBser:

And has any of this been shared with Police officials yet? - if not, I'd have to ask why? - as this is a MAJOR lead in this case.

The longer people sit on this, and just keep whispering it amongst themselves and friends etc, they helping prevent these killers being brought to justice. The longer this investigation goes on for, the less likely these people will ever be caught, and that would be a tragedy.

I heard through rumour control that a young Thai was getting hot with the deceased girl whilst in the bar and that Mr Miller intervened with the Thai leaving the bar, a Thai losing face will do anything to gain his reputation back even murder someone could this have been the case ? It seems that the only suspects appear to be migrant workers or the deceased's best friend which I find most disturbing . Sadly island police on Koh Tao, Phangan or Samui are only capable of taking monies from tourists for not wearing motor cycle helmets they are not experienced or trained to handle such serious cases I often see them standing around Tesco Lotus smoking or drinking coffee they are poorly paid and appear non motivated to do there job I was disturbed and angry to hear that some of the police at the scene of the crime were posting pictures on there private face book pages

This seems to be what everyone is saying about the circumstances leading up to the murders. Surely if this version of events is so widely in circulation, and numerous people and sources are aware of it, the Police will have gotten word of it and be looking into it to determine how much truth there is to it?

A post on here earlier (SirBser - a few pages back) claimed that a story was doing the rounds on the island, that Hannah had been getting unwanted attention from a Thai man, and David had to intervene and then got into an argument/heated conversation with him. This then led to the Thai man leaving and getting one of his friends, they then decided to wait for Hannah and David to leave so they could make there attack.

May I ask you , how do you know it was a Thai man and not a migrant worker from Burma or somewhere else? For a tourist its difficult to seprate Thais from other Asian nationalities.

This is just a story , who told it first ? Be careful to blaim any nationality in this tragic case.

What we need is evidence.

What we do know is that on the island a majority of the people working there are immigrants from neighboring countries .

I completely agree with you. I was merely commenting on an earlier post by another forum member, and so I do not have any facts to prove that ANY Thai men were involved.

I don't think anyone can say for sure what the race/ethnicity of the criminals are at this stage, not even the Police, but it does appear that the story of them being waited for and attacked is very plausible, and so whatever locals/tourists know more info on that, hopefully they will come forward sooner rather than later, because those are details that could help catch the killers.

The Thai Police have &lt;deleted&gt; this case. As things stand, I seriously doubt that the criminals will be caught and punished.

Despite what any of the posters on here think, you have to admit that this investigation has been a comedy of errors from the start, and even if UK Police officials were to be called in at this stage, we're several days down the line now since the murders, the attackers could be anywhere by now, further evidence could been hidden or destroyed, any witnesses could have moved on, or disappeared etc.

I hope that the family/friends of the girl have contacted the UK authorities and informed them of whoever it was that posted the details of what allegedly happened on the island to her Facebook page, as this is probably the lead that needs to be pursued now - by UK officials, not Thai.

I hope I am wrong and that this crime is solved though, fingers crossed.

This is tragic..this is a case of Thai loses face badly in bar over blonde girl. He leaves, calls his mates and it's all over..sorry but this is it, bluntly.

They hunt in packs this lot. It was brutal she was repaid for knocking back a Thai guy advances.

I posted a comment some hours back about a Thai guy looking out of place in the original video of the crime scene and thought what the heck is he there for, meandering with the police. PM made a statement saying the suspect is in the video (odd remark).

This is going to cause huge issues if it is Thai's responsible (which we know the answer).

Which video??

Here we go again DNA doesn't match.

Okay I'll go back to what I've been saying, somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook page telling why she was killed, he keeps saying that night they had a problem in the bar, a local Thai man was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai man.

Supposedly the Thai man left the bar and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for when they left.

Ive heard from many people on Koh Tao that this is what the word is but everybody is keeping quiet, everyone's scared of the locals family who own the land.

Most of all the workers at the bar left Koh Tao because all the bar tenders are foreigners with no work permits.

Also Koh Tao might be a small island but the Thai and Burmese boys smoke yah bah and yah ice on that island, usually sold by someone protected by the police. The level of corruption on Koh Tao is insane, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 cops that look after Koh Tao know who the killer is but is protecting him and throwing the Surat Thani police bad information.

I have joined this forum purely to comment on this thread, as I think the story is devastating.

I have replied to this post specifically because if what you're saying is genuine and has substance to it, I think the info should be forwarded on to the proper authorities, as this could prove decisive in making sure that the killers are brought to justice.

Whoever has committed these crimes cannot get away with this.

Sincerely, I am sure that the Police have been monitoring the victims' Facebook pages, looked into their phones' texts and calls or any sources in order to retrieve informations.

If not the Thai Police ( which I am certain they have ) but at least the UK police as none of these administrations are completely retarded when it comes to investigate.

Whatever the outcome, one should give some credit to the police officers in charge with the investigation.

The only problems are the "unthought" statements made by some doubled by the reported "rumours" by the press, notwithstanding the opinion ( conviction ) of some of the posters ready to hang the "culprit/s"

By "culprit" please understand that their names were displayed in some newspapers eager to keep the audience, sorry, the public, entertained, sorry again, informed.

Of course one can think anything when one hears or sees some piece of news but these are not evidences.

From what I recall, even, when indisputable proof of involvement has been brought on a suspect, hours, even days are needed to bring a sentence by a jury and by a judge.

Quit thinking that the Police are morons in need to be taught as we know better.

Point taken. However, let's not forget that this is the same Police department that released CCTV image(s) of two random people that they claimed were the victims.

Whereas I'm sure the Thai Police force are doing everything they can, they don't fill me with confidence when they make such 'Police Academy-esque' errors such as the above one.

Here we go again DNA doesn't match.

Okay I'll go back to what I've been saying, somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook page telling why she was killed, he keeps saying that night they had a problem in the bar, a local Thai man was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai man.

Supposedly the Thai man left the bar and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for when they left.

Ive heard from many people on Koh Tao that this is what the word is but everybody is keeping quiet, everyone's scared of the locals family who own the land.

Most of all the workers at the bar left Koh Tao because all the bar tenders are foreigners with no work permits.

Also Koh Tao might be a small island but the Thai and Burmese boys smoke yah bah and yah ice on that island, usually sold by someone protected by the police. The level of corruption on Koh Tao is insane, I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 cops that look after Koh Tao know who the killer is but is protecting him and throwing the Surat Thani police bad information.

I have joined this forum purely to comment on this thread, as I think the story is devastating.

I have replied to this post specifically because if what you're saying is genuine and has substance to it, I think the info should be forwarded on to the proper authorities, as this could prove decisive in making sure that the killers are brought to justice.

Whoever has committed these crimes cannot get away with this.