bunglebag

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

Utter tripe. The re-enactment facade clearly indicated that the prosecution based the defendants confession on using the hoe as the murder weapon. And if they are basing their case on anything else it has not been shown in court reports.

Their case: DNA, confession, re-enactment. All of which has been successfully challenged. As to the MURDER WEAPON, the bloody hoe, it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that had either of the B2 handled the hoe, in all probability their DNA would also have been found along with two unidentified males.

Yes this is bad news for RTP / prosecution really. The lack of B2 dna on a weapon definitely used on Hannah at least is quite telling From that farcical re-enctment it always seemed obvious that they didn't have a clue what they were supposed to have done and how, and now it would appear that that could well be the case. Don't think they're off the hook yet but never thought they carried out the killings. I don't see how they can be charged with her murder presently, regardless of any dna results linked to Hannah's body.

As long as the code of secrecy is in effect rendering witnesses too scared to come forward, Yes pretty much.

There are living humans today who know what happened... They just can't/won't talk. Which I find funny because what kind of threat would they be under from two Burmese lads?

Like, why is everyone so crap scared they can't speak? Burmese mafia on KT? Lmao.

We all know who runs the cops and crooks on KT.

Yes this fear is a key indicator that something is seriously wrong.

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

One of the biggest indicators that something is amiss to me is what Mon and his cop mate said to Sean - they were not interested at all in what he might have known or done (even though they said he had their blood on his hands). They seemed to just want a scapegoat quickly to make closing the case a lot easier.

The apparent murder scene is just yards from the beach-front of Mon's resort (InTouch). The B2 were on a log on the beach-front of his resort. The alleged murder weapon is from his resort. His employee found the bodies. He was second on the scene. This couldn't be any more on his patch, yet all he appears to want is a quick convenient closure. If he thought Sean was involved why not try to find out who else was involved etc. I think he knows who, and I don't think he would be covering for (just) the B2.

Can anyone advise the location of that cctv camera?

I presume it's further away from the crime scene than InTouch resort? Is it somewhere between AC Resort and InTouch resort?

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

The counter argument is that this thread keeps it in the public eye. I have learnt a few more things that casual readers could benefit from. I ignore the dross but others may not. Up to them.

I hear what you are saying and you are correct - I'm not advising to stop discussing etc. Just feels like engaging and indulging the hardcore defenders repeatedly every time they ask for something may not be the best use of time.

This thread should be kept in the public eye as much as possible, and indeed some misunderstandings have been cleared up from time to time (though usually as a result of 2 or more people from the same side discussing a point, not because of something a defender has said). This is good because none of us want to be basing things on erroneous information.

But when someone keeps posting numerous repetitive enormous (quoted) posts etc. and others keep responding pages quickly become filled with large swathes of repetitive clag which makes it more effort to follow and to find the useful information.

Reading page after page in one go it just comes across that the defenders want to bloat, distract and argue - doesn't even matter what is being discussed.

I do stand by my original comment that I think regardless of what is presented to the defenders they will never change their official opinions so why waste too much time on them. Point out errors/problems with their arguments and move on rather than be drawn in. That's just my opinion though and I shall head back to my observation point on the sidelines for now.

Edited to add that I'm not actually against the presence of the defenders, nor even some of their contributions because it is important to have some people presenting alternative views. I just find it a pain and distracting how much time & screen real estate then gets wasted after going round and round - you can lead a horse to water etc, but these horses ain't gonna drink.

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/koh-tao-thailand-murder-death-foreigners-28701/28701

Interesting comments on this article.

Combined with Sean's comments about there being a lot of rapes on Koh Tao it could point to a group of local people carrying out these sort of attacks over a sustained period of time.

I do not know if Sean was present that night but I think he most likely knows who the local dangermen were/are on Sairee beach with regards to female safety & fighting etc, as probably do a lot of other long termers, whether via gossip or other means.

People on that island appear to be either not bothered and maybe protecting their interests, or else scared to speak up.

Fear like that does not come from a couple of young Burmese guys so for me that is another big pointer that something is seriously amiss here and the people on trial are not the full story.

Stingray Man

We know this guy shark tooth man has previous allegations against him.

As a side note rape in an Island like KT would not be considered a serious issue due to a lack of effective reporting and investigative procedures on the Island and so I'm sure it happened quite often.

Earlier this year Phi Phi was highlighted as a major concern for unreported rapes by a Norwegian Consulate

PHUKET: A major leap forward has been taken to bring Koh Phi Phi rapists to justice, following concerns raised by the Norwegian Honorary Consul regarding jurisdiction issues which led to island rape cases failing to be fully investigated.

“We want to see police treat rape as a serious crime. We want police to bring rapists to justice. We want to ensure that police are determining whether or not an alleged victim was sexually assaulted. We want police to pursue every rape case to an end,” said Royal Norwegian Honorary Consul Pornphan Sittichaivijit http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-police-slash-red-tape-Phi-Phi/57978

Did you spot that conversation someone posted a couple of days ago between Sean and someone else - In it Sean said there were loads of rapes on Koh Tao - Most probably get either unreported or told to not make trouble by the local 'police'.

Hasn't 13th until 26th been removed from that account?

Yes looks like it, I wonder why?

Don't think they've been deleted. Can see pictures if you go to photos > albums and select Friday 12th September 2014 (a fair way down the list)

Was going to have a look at the previous week but no albums for Friday 5th and Monday 8th! Not sure if there used to be albums for those dates.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

Please pot the Thai, it is a Thailand wesite and many of us read Thai

I would but I believe posting Thai content is against the rules and will get deleted

I read recently that Muang Muang (the 3rd Burmese lad) claimed he had a tussle with Nomsod in AC bar that night (14th and 15th) and that David showed up to do or say something (pull them apart?). It may be rumor, but it's very likely MM will be a witness - probably for the defense. Even if it appears as rumor, it's the sort of thing RTP should investigate, yet it's the precise sort of the thing the RTP doesn't want to look in to. The reason is obvious: Anything which could implicate people connected to the Headman, is off-limits for investigators.

Yes I read that to in the latest Daily Mail article, but I think there are 2 separate Muang Muang's.

Person A is Muang Muang - He is a key witness who fled to Burma. He is Rhakine.

Person B is Pyo - He is a Burmese DJ at AC BAR

Person C is Myo Aung - He is also Burmese. He is a right-hand man of Nomsod's dad.

Muang Muang fled to Burma 3-4 days after the incident. He fled to Kawthoung, a border town next to Ranong Province.

The guy next to C is a Thai, Sun Thampachana, he was pictured right next to Hannah on the Koh Tao Party Bar Crawl the previous evening

Was the Sun & Hannah pub crawl picture not Friday night?

and 'right next too' means faces practically touching and her hand resting on his shoulder

The bar crawl with Hannah pictured faces together with Sun was on the 13th Sept, not sure what day of the week that fell on

Hmm 13th is a Saturday but the bar crawl is every Monday, Weds and Friday. Friday would be the 12th. maybe the pics got put up on the 13th?

OK genuine replies only

Does anybody recall or know when and how the allegations of an altercation in a bar between one of the victims and a thai first materialised

Interesting question, I hope they did not come from gossip.

If I remember correctly a witness told it to a local reporter on the island.

I read recently that Muang Muang (the 3rd Burmese lad) claimed he had a tussle with Nomsod in AC bar that night (14th and 15th) and that David showed up to do or say something (pull them apart?). It may be rumor, but it's very likely MM will be a witness - probably for the defense. Even if it appears as rumor, it's the sort of thing RTP should investigate, yet it's the precise sort of the thing the RTP doesn't want to look in to. The reason is obvious: Anything which could implicate people connected to the Headman, is off-limits for investigators.

Yes I read that to in the latest Daily Mail article, but I think there are 2 separate Muang Muang's.

Person A is Muang Muang - He is a key witness who fled to Burma. He is Rhakine.

Person B is Pyo - He is a Burmese DJ at AC BAR

Person C is Myo Aung - He is also Burmese. He is a right-hand man of Nomsod's dad.

Muang Muang fled to Burma 3-4 days after the incident. He fled to Kawthoung, a border town next to Ranong Province.

The guy next to C is a Thai, Sun Thampachana, he was pictured right next to Hannah on the Koh Tao Party Bar Crawl the previous evening

Was the Sun & Hannah pub crawl picture not Friday night?

and 'right next too' means faces practically touching and her hand resting on his shoulder

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

The prosecution alleged that Win and Saw shared a ciggie whilst taking it in turns to carry out the attack on Hannah correct?

But was the cigarette in question not found by the log, right in front of In Touch resort and 60m from the alleged crime scene?

So is the prosecution saying the crime happened by the log?

Whether you believe me or not the answer to your questions is yes and yes. That is because the Cigarette Butts where collect from 2 different locations, and as you had mentioned.

The significance of this is that in theory the DNA match from both places ties the accused to the Crime Scene, where perhaps there is no witnesses, to the spot they were sitting and playing the guitar, which has plenty of witnesses.

OK. I'm not being funny here but are you able to provide any links to that effect. I ask because I only remember seeing specific pictures of the 3 cigarettes by the log I think, but I don't remember any of cigarettes at the alleged crime scene. I could be wrong but would ideally like documented clarification as the RTP conjected that the 2 defendents shared a cigarette whilst taking it in turns to attack. thanks

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

Yes and he also states that they have the motorbike impounded too. Which leads me to say if his scenario is correct and the B2 left on the motorbike where is the DNA from the motor bike. There has to be from the state of the crime scene and the blood splattered over the sand blood etc transferred to clothing and of course then onto the bike. If this was what happened of course ! Mind you where is the B2 clothes from that night ? And the bike could,have been cleaned but I wonder if it's ever been checked. They haven't mentioned it and I suspect it wouldn't have been

If they 'escaped' on a motorbike after the crime there would surely be cctv of this?

Do tell us how her DNA could have been found on the ciggy if she didn't touch or smoke it.

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

The prosecution alleged that Win and Saw shared a ciggie whilst taking it in turns to carry out the attack on Hannah correct?

But was the cigarette in question not found by the log, right in front of In Touch resort and 60m from the alleged crime scene?

So is the prosecution saying the crime happened by the log?

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

What about checking CCTV to see how Nomsod arrived on the island in the first place. Anything that proves he was there hurts his families credibility.

Are you mad???

That island was cleaned top to bottom. All cctv that was Incriminating dissapeared. All facebook accounts of locals cleared out pictures of NS. The word went out not to comment on the case. It was as close to surgi al wipe.down as they could muster.

There was a guy Chris who is a British guy works at a dive school who posted he had a beer with Sean McAnna thta night but that dissapeared.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

I would like to ask JTJ, AleG and jdinasia if he is still around a question.

The prosecution said the clothes were piled neatly on a rock. Up until they showed that picture of the clothes piled neatly on a rock I have never seen it before.

What I have seen is clothes tossed all over the beach around lots of blood.

Are you saying the pictures of the clothes tossed on the beach don't exist and are a figment of a CT's mind ?

When you see things with your own eyes and then someone in a uniform tells you what you have seen doesn't exist then I think it only fair to call them liars.

blood on beach.jpg

Is this picture real or am I dreaming it ?

You have to assume that the court has not seen the picture of the scattered clothes and David's body out to sea? Otherwise that would show the first on scene policeman's testimony to be untrue.

If the prosecution choose to only show certain cctv footage to the court then I presume they also do the same with pictures (although they did say they did not have the budget to store some - what does a flash drive cost? not much more than a few rotis).

I assume the judges make their decisions based on what 'evidence' is presented to the court, which is basically anything the RTP want to show or say to try and help their story make a semblance of sense. The picture showing the scattered clothes and David in the sea - Would it have been possible for the defence to show that or do they not get to do that sort of thing?

The other thing that bothers me from the NS supporters is they like to say NS had a girlfriend at the time, so he wouldn't need to rape...... That's that Thai logic getting them screwed at every turn.

NS lives in Bangkok. He comes from a wealthy family. I am sure he could easily find many single girls at university, who would want to latch on some of his wealth, or he could easily pay for it.

But since you keep suggesting he is a rapist then why not do that in Bangkok, and were he lives? Why would he come out to an Island on a weekend, and where his Father, Uncle, and perhaps other family members have a vested interest in Tourism, to do this? That a crime like this would hurt tourism, and thus hurt his family. He is a university student so surely he would know this before hand.

You posted here what you think is Thai Logic and like you are some professional with this, and speaking for all Thai's, which I doubt you are Thai. So let me make it easy for you and give you some Good Old Fashioned American Logic.

"You don't bite the hand that is feeding you!"

I still have a somewhat open mind so not accusing anyone here

But in response to GB's asking why not do it in Bangkok...

- It would be much safer to do it somewhere you are very familiar with, where your family had the police in their pocket to cover things up if anything went bad, home ground where you had some backup if required, maybe even a cohort or two.

Girl gets attacked / raped. Girl reports to police. (in pocket) police say go away / no make trouble. What more can she do?

Could even be an MO of more than one person associated with the bar, easy to spike drinks on occasion (though allegedly no drugs found in Hannah's system)

- Plus probably easier to pick up more willing Western girls due to status on the island / in the bar.

- Plus I believe you said he had a girlfriend? Bangkok might be a bit close to home to play away.

Just some possibilities

Personally I don't think anyone woke up that day and planned to murder someone. Think it most likely to have been sparked by an incident and then a chain of events from there on (possibly some unexpected, maybe including David) led to a terrible conclusion and a cover up / fit up.

Yes, the answer is very basic: if someone claims something, in testimony to court of law, they have the means to substantiate what they say and those means are open to scrutiny it makes them more credible than someone that says something on the Internet and only has his say so to substantiate it.

OMG My late father used to say I could try the patience of a saint! I think it now belongs to you. Oh I don't doubt they claimed it for one minute but they were only part of a chain and what they said they may believe but if other links in the chain are flawed it doesn't stand up. This is the last time I'm going to say this to you

As everyone else is laughing at you and I hate to see grown men cry! Up to NOW ! there is no evidence to link the B2 to this case. Please please for all the other people In here take a moment, maybe go and have a cup of tea and contemplate that statement. You'll feel better if you do.!

Don't flatter yourself, I'm cool as a cucumber.

If the chain of evidence is under question then the onus is on those making the claim to produce the evidence for it; and no, just saying that someone, somewhere got paid to tamper with it doesn't cut it.

Well actually no the onus is not on the defense.

Chain of custody is an essential element in scientific evidence. It is incumbent on the proecution tp prove the samples are secure and the chain of custody is intact.

Defense do not have to prove anything.

And if the onus were on the defence would you agree AleG that they should at least be able to see the chain of custody documents?

"The defense lawyers have expressed concern about their inability to access ‘chains of custody’ from the investigation, which are documents tracking the collection, movement, processing, and current location of all physical evidence. The lawyers, who have requested the documents but not recieved them, said they want to confirm that no evidence was tampered with in the process.

The prosecutor said he could not comment on the case while the trial is ongoing. "

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064&section=12

takling about making things up John .... what news on the TV or newspaper report of Panya's departure for a desk prior to 15th . And don't ask me to dig for it . How could i dig for a figment of your immagination ?

It doesn't exist in print or online and he knows it.

Here it is a link to something that has been shared numerous times on this thread for those who keep wanted to pretend things and/or too ignorant to look up facts themselves and prefer to make things up. Other links shared on these boards actually show the date of the promotion being 10/1 along with numerous other transfers around the country.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/21/national/Police-promotions-30136311.html

Published on August 21, 2010[/size]

Police promotions

"Deputy Metropolitan Police commissioner MajGeneral Amnuay Niammano and Central Investigation Bureau deputy commissioner MajGeneral Panya Mamen are set to be promoted to the commissioners of provincial police regions," the same source added.

So please stop the nonsense of how he was taken off the case and was doing such a great job. When he left, the case was receiving huge attention for what people were calling coverups and botched. He cleared all the Headsman's family as well as Sean and was the one who confirmed publicly the one kid was in Bangkok and no longer a suspect. He also announced the day after his transfer arrests would be happening in days and they were.

I must advise those who support JTJ ........ DO NOT LOOK AT THE DATE PUBLISHED ON THIS ARTICAL.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe now you should give up JTJ.

Heres one from 1976

May bad, I only looked at the month - I pulled the wrong article. Let me try to find the right one which has already been published numerous times on these threads.

JTJ, I notice you have not posted since the above (as far as I can see).

I am waiting with bated breath for this because you have been banging on about it for ages. Very strange if nothing forthcoming

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

GB, surely you don't take what you are typing seriously? You are saying the Chief investigator on this case should not know:

1: Who collected the DNA samples

2: Who called in the body discovery

3: Whether he expected the attackers clothes to be bloodstained

4: Who the owner of the hoe - the murder weapon - who it belonged to.

5: The officer who interviewed headman's son

6: Whether the headman's son was even interviewed properly

Furthermore, you think it's excusable that this same chief investigator:

1: Did not bother to investigate an altercation at the AC bar, allegedly involving the headmans son and possibly Hannah

2: Suspects the victims last know whereabouts was AC bar but did not investigate there either, and has not pursued or shown footage of CCTV with them leaving

3: Didn't bother to check CCTV footage of the pier as they "didn't think" a suspect would leave that way

4: Didn't bother to investigate reports of a small boat leaving the island in the early morning

5: Doesn't know where the DNA samples collected from the headmans son are, nor does he know who has them - essentilay lost then - and only Police testimony that they were not a match

But Goldbuggy, you think its ok for the lead investigator to be this ignorant. You said it's not his job to know these things, its his job to investigate. Well guess what, he neither knew, nor investigated.

Why, oh Why are you defending them? Can't you see the gross incompetence and lies?

Read this article, and try spinning it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173235/Catalogue-police-blunders-including-failure-investigate-evidence-chase-suspects-revealed-court-judge-doubts-case-conclusive-outcome.html

Oh, right, I know - it is a misunderstanding yes? Or lost in translation yes? Or is this the level of Policing you find acceptable?

Wouldn't waste your time. GB makes more (suitable) assumptions than anyone when he presents his alternative scenarios.

I like the way he plucks a time of death out of the air, just because a random poster mentioned it.

I'm not aware of the official time of death window but personally I think she was staged much closer to high tide time (2.19am) than 4.30am, based on tidemarks and and Hannah's feet have sunk into the sand (one more tan the other) in a way that only happens when water is moving around them.

Also, sunrise might have been 6.10am but you do know it starts to get light before the sun comes up right? I doubt our beach cleaners would have been stumbling around in pitch black at 5.40am

if there was a speedboat it could have left from beach or pier. Pier is near beach. You never know what might be on the cctv, hence the point of looking at it.

From an old report

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/PM-vows-crackdown-on-Koh-Tao-vices-30244060.html

but does this quote from a certain person's son help us understand why the police felt so many obvious things to investigate were 'not relevant'?

The son "could not comprehend" why his father had been interviewed and initially suspected by the police, despite his cooperation and even assistance in providing police with leads and tip-offs.

Alex G, if anything CCTV would run after last orders as that's when most altercations start, it's a piss poor excuse, the AC bar has refused to cooperate they also have a webcam in there too I believe.

I was on Koh Tao a month before these murders and even then I was told that it was very hard for farangs to operate without backhanders.

After the murders Prayuth also stated he was sending the army down there to clear up these Mafia, that was an idle threat nothing ever came of it, this trial is a joke, and not a very funny one for the families.

They must feel gutted what with the "solid evidence" their press releases stated, as there's nothing solid about the evidence so far, apart from the intelligence of the RTP.

It's a sham nothing more.

And even if it got turned off at 2am that's still an hour after Hannah arrived

The jury is out for me on the involvement of NS. The only thing I know for sure regarding him is that he was chatting to his facebook pals about it later on the 15th.

Is it possible that all this BS could be the result of the PM saying No Thai would do this? If it turned out to be a Thai would this be loss of face for the biggest man in Thailand? Twas a silly statement to make because Thais have done plenty of horrific crimes previously, even not dissimilar to this one.

It is surprising (or should I really say not suprising) that there is not better quality footage of the running man, maybe from some of the other working cameras such as those that captured the victims final movements that night. The build and certainly that peculiar arm movement are definitely similar.

So much rumour around all aspects of NS 'alibi' and right from the off on day one he was being heavily pointed to by many people. Why did his name come up so quickly if he wasn't there? Even his Father said initially that he had had to rush back to university didn't he before the story changed? The speedboat story came on day one too and based on what I can understand of yesterday's testimony it sounds like yes there was a speedboat leaving the beach shortly after the murders!

I'm surprised that nothing concrete has yet surfaced if he was on the island. AC bar withholding all cctv from inside is very iffy though. 2 main reasons I can think of are:

1. something happened re Hannah and/or David in there

2. NS would have been on the video

Could the police not have demanded this in Thailand? If so and if they didn't then that screams cover up (of something).

From what I understand a lot of bars/resorts have cctv pointing to the beach yet the police have not seen any footage from any of these (allegedly), is that correct?. Honestly it feels like a bunch of 5 year olds could have done a better job!

A few things, first Prayuth never made that comment about "No Thai could do this", so if that is your basis to think there is pressure to save his face by nailing two Burmese scapegoats perhaps you should reevaluate things.

As for Nomsod and his "peculiar" arm movement, people are comparing when the man on the CCTV footage in Koh Tao reaches across his chest to, I suppose, scratch the other side of his chest or opposite arm with Nomsod on the CCTV footage at the lobby reaching up to brush his hair. I find it amazingly intellectually dishonest to see that some people are using two frames from each video, showing the arms bending up as proof that they show the same unusual walking style and therefore they should be the same person.

Lastly, bars are supposed by law to close at 2AM, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd stop CCTV recordings after that time as a matter of course, or altogether to avoid filming other questionable activities going on in the premises.

Quite correct. The PM did not say "no Thai could do this."

It was the senior investigating police officer.

"On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person. No Thai could possibly commit such a crime, he said, forgetting the equally ghastly murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton in 2006, by, it turned out, two Thai fishermen."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

Regardless of who said it, it is a thoroughly repugnant remark (even more so if one considers that less than 48 hours after the crime, the lead cop has already dismissed the culpability of his countrymen based on racial bias? Nationalism? Personal bias?) and come to his own conclusions before the investigation has really even started.

You are correct it was the police who said it, my mistake, I apologise.

So if there is a cover up it is not to save PM's face.