bunglebag

After seeing the video of gang of murderers in Kanchanburi where they carried out a horrific attack on the young defenseless guy using anything they could to kill him, (Did someone say no Thai's could do something so bad? Bang goes that theory!)

I'm 100% convinced there were more then two people .

Also it was not the B2

1000%

David's head wounds looked like stab wounds from those ninja shurikens but more of a clover shaped blade designed to be put between your fingers for a stabbing motion. Also he had wounds on his fist indicating that he fought with his attackers before he was over powered. The court are saying that he was savagely attacked from behind, if so you would imagine that he wouldn't of been able to stand up to defend himself.

It is my belief that David had come to try and rescue Hannah and was beaten by the gang that were there hence the wounds to his fists. David tried his best but was overpowered by numbers. Plus one of Nomsod's possy was a big fella for a Thai guy. He didn't really stand a chance.

How David was killed was conveniently overlooked (or misinterpreted) by the court, when it ought to have taken precedence, and cast doubts on the ability of two small men being able to overpower and kill him while he was facing them. IMO, this is the biggest flaw in the prosecution's case. If the B2 were at the crime scene, I'd lay a pound to a penny that there were others - and I hope they will speak out and reveal the truth of what happened that night.

It's my belief that the B2 were there for clean up duty. Moving bodies and evidence and what not ordered by the real perps (the B2's employers, or family of their employers). I think that once the real culprits knew that the B2 could be put in a compromising position that the set up against them began.

This was a crime of hate. It had been reported that there was an incident in that bar the same night with Hannah rebuffing the advance of one of the locals. I think that perhaps Yaba was involved into making it into a jealous fit of rage and this local then took his local gang with him to 'correct' the embarrassment. It was a matter of wrong place, wrong time for Hannah, David and the B2.

It is certainly conceivable that the B2 may have been involved at some point - but no way were they responsible for this crime. If any involvement then most likely they were coerced by the killers, post mortem imo. Moving bodies and possibly even 'persuaded' to produce dna samples! No way are they going to argue with the big boys who run the island because there will only be one winner there. And unfortunately corruption seems to rule all the way to the top

Does anyone know what Buddhism says about conspiring to frame two innocents for murders they didn't commit? And what about Buddhists who don't come forward to tell the truth?

For months and months I was convinced that someone would come forward and speak the truth no matter what, because their religion speaks about doing good and the laws of karma but it never happened. Strange.

So of 100's of people on Koh Tao who actually know what really happened nobody came forward with their story? And all out of fear? It's impossible to cover up a story of this magnitude on such a small island! So it's kind of logical that many people know the real story. There must even be farangs who live and work on Tao who know the truth, either working in the diving industry or owning businesses. That nobody sticks their neck out for anyone anymore is maybe part of the time we live in. Can't imagine someone who knows the truth would be quiet and let 2 boys be sent to jail all their lives or even killed for a crime they didn't commit. That's impossible

Trust me it's happening. Plenty of people on Sairee know what happened and who did it.

The decent ones are genuinely scared for their lives so won't talk, and the bad ones are protecting the true culprits in various ways, some of them are on this thread. We all know who. Utter contempt for them.

From the Judge's verdict report via KhaoSod

The two defendants said they suddenly had the idea of going swimming in the sea on their way back to the residence. It was in the dead of the night, and it was raining slightly. It is unimaginable that any person would have made this decision, unless they wanted to erase the evidence on their shirts and bodies.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1451042373

In the crime scene photos you will also see there are big fishing boats in the bay the reason they are there is because they were sheltering from a storm that night, this also means that it would of been a extremely dangerous and slow trip to make in a speedboat which also rules out the Nomsod got on a speedboat and made it to Koh Samui in an Hour and a half and got on a plane.

Was there a storm? None of the cctv from that night looked particularly stormy. There was a beach party outside ac bar that night, the sea in the pictures of the crime scene taken early that morning did not look particularly bad. As I understand it there was strong onshore wind that night. Fishing boats would need to throw anchor if they want to sleep or rest, and they would not do that with a strong onshore wind - they would all go round the sheltered side. The only fishing boats around were the trawlers much further out to sea. However there are several dive boats moored in the bay which have staff sleeping on them, who could easily swim ashore etc. There was a picture from the morning of the murders I believe showing some of the dive boats in the bay and the closest diving boat was a pink one, owned by AC bar.

for all those who call out injustice, how many actually donated a dime to help these boys.. Secondly, nobody is privy to what parents have been told, to suggest they were brain washed by Thai police is ludicrous...............

raises hand. yes donated more than a dime, and these guys can be very charming / convincing / seemingly earnest when they have an agenda or want something as I'm sure you know.

The video doing the rounds on facebook definately does not show him as "turning himself in".

He was arrested on the street and cuffed and taken away on the back of a scooter.

https://www.facebook.com/795970740514306/videos/805617386216308/

Bit of an assumption there?

I can't see him being arrested on the street or being cuffed in that video.

He is already cuffed, maybe already arrested. Doesn't appear to be resisting at all. Could have already turned himself in (i.e. told them where he was or some such)

policeman right at the beginning of the vid is putting on the cuffs.

Scooter on the ground suggests a scuffle took place.

But then as you say he might have already been arrested and cuffed, this could have been them taking him back to Thailand.

Don't really wanna argue but if you pause on 0:00 seconds there is a cop blocking sight of the perp's body but you can still see his hands with cuffs already on. Like you say though, who knows what happened prior. Cameraman was just a bit too late to the party

wow….transporting a dangerous perp on a motorbike…..these guys really are knuckleheads

Laddie at the back wasn't left with much to sit on lol

But I was more concerned with the lass on the back of another bike holding a long ladder!! Recipe for nasty pedestrian injuries and damage to other vehicles written all over it!

The video doing the rounds on facebook definately does not show him as "turning himself in".

He was arrested on the street and cuffed and taken away on the back of a scooter.

https://www.facebook.com/795970740514306/videos/805617386216308/

Bit of an assumption there?

I can't see him being arrested on the street or being cuffed in that video.

He is already cuffed, maybe already arrested. Doesn't appear to be resisting at all. Could have already turned himself in (i.e. told them where he was or some such)

Negerians look angels comparatively to these hideous farangs criminals, killers, pedophiles and all sort of trash living here.

To be fair at least these bikee boys kept it all fairly 'in-house' at it were, not really affecting any innocent parties?

The Nigerian scammers prey on the lonely and vulnerable, and the paedos prey on the vulnerable.

All just different shades of sh2t at the end of the day though, and the world is a better place each time any of them disappear

I guess a few of you missed the part were he turned himself in.

Probably the same lot that were querying how the police found the grave so quickly in comments following the article that said police saw via the GPS tracker that the truck stopped for 2 hours by the side of the road, where the grave was found.

These guys fail the basics of TV armchair detection course at the first and second hurdles

"Mr Malkoun was quoted as saying he felt ill and came home early, he talked to Mr Schneider and the other man for a short time when they returned to the house and continued their drinking."

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

Utter tripe. The re-enactment facade clearly indicated that the prosecution based the defendants confession on using the hoe as the murder weapon. And if they are basing their case on anything else it has not been shown in court reports.

Their case: DNA, confession, re-enactment. All of which has been successfully challenged. As to the MURDER WEAPON, the bloody hoe, it doesn't take an Einstein to figure out that had either of the B2 handled the hoe, in all probability their DNA would also have been found along with two unidentified males.

Yes this is bad news for RTP / prosecution really. The lack of B2 dna on a weapon definitely used on Hannah at least is quite telling From that farcical re-enctment it always seemed obvious that they didn't have a clue what they were supposed to have done and how, and now it would appear that that could well be the case. Don't think they're off the hook yet but never thought they carried out the killings. I don't see how they can be charged with her murder presently, regardless of any dna results linked to Hannah's body.

As long as the code of secrecy is in effect rendering witnesses too scared to come forward, Yes pretty much.

There are living humans today who know what happened... They just can't/won't talk. Which I find funny because what kind of threat would they be under from two Burmese lads?

Like, why is everyone so crap scared they can't speak? Burmese mafia on KT? Lmao.

We all know who runs the cops and crooks on KT.

Yes this fear is a key indicator that something is seriously wrong.

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

One of the biggest indicators that something is amiss to me is what Mon and his cop mate said to Sean - they were not interested at all in what he might have known or done (even though they said he had their blood on his hands). They seemed to just want a scapegoat quickly to make closing the case a lot easier.

The apparent murder scene is just yards from the beach-front of Mon's resort (InTouch). The B2 were on a log on the beach-front of his resort. The alleged murder weapon is from his resort. His employee found the bodies. He was second on the scene. This couldn't be any more on his patch, yet all he appears to want is a quick convenient closure. If he thought Sean was involved why not try to find out who else was involved etc. I think he knows who, and I don't think he would be covering for (just) the B2.

Can anyone advise the location of that cctv camera?

I presume it's further away from the crime scene than InTouch resort? Is it somewhere between AC Resort and InTouch resort?

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

The counter argument is that this thread keeps it in the public eye. I have learnt a few more things that casual readers could benefit from. I ignore the dross but others may not. Up to them.

I hear what you are saying and you are correct - I'm not advising to stop discussing etc. Just feels like engaging and indulging the hardcore defenders repeatedly every time they ask for something may not be the best use of time.

This thread should be kept in the public eye as much as possible, and indeed some misunderstandings have been cleared up from time to time (though usually as a result of 2 or more people from the same side discussing a point, not because of something a defender has said). This is good because none of us want to be basing things on erroneous information.

But when someone keeps posting numerous repetitive enormous (quoted) posts etc. and others keep responding pages quickly become filled with large swathes of repetitive clag which makes it more effort to follow and to find the useful information.

Reading page after page in one go it just comes across that the defenders want to bloat, distract and argue - doesn't even matter what is being discussed.

I do stand by my original comment that I think regardless of what is presented to the defenders they will never change their official opinions so why waste too much time on them. Point out errors/problems with their arguments and move on rather than be drawn in. That's just my opinion though and I shall head back to my observation point on the sidelines for now.

Edited to add that I'm not actually against the presence of the defenders, nor even some of their contributions because it is important to have some people presenting alternative views. I just find it a pain and distracting how much time & screen real estate then gets wasted after going round and round - you can lead a horse to water etc, but these horses ain't gonna drink.

Some people here seem to have the agenda of wasting as much time of others as possible, sending topics round and round. Pretty much no-one is going to change their mind for the foreseeable future that much is clear.

Having stepped back from getting involved in 'discussions' for a few days now I'm able to follow the overall thread somewhat more clearly. The bigger picture shows a few people imo trying to direct / misdirect the thread, keep their opposition as busy as possible, defend NS/family whenever required then move the thread in a new direction etc. even try and say the police have done a good job (that has to be frustrating as impossible to do without losing credibility).

I'd recommend seriously reducing the amount of time wasted and effort spent interacting with certain posters. Keep it short and simple, if at all. If they want a link let them to go find it instead of spending your own time digging back. Whether they get links or not their view will not change, and let's be honest do we even care what they think or say? The few people backing the RTP's version of events and prosecution case will never be turned. They are doing a job. Flag up their misinformation/errors but don't get drawn in and don't waste time on them.

There is no need for any one-upmanship. They are not worth it. Their (official) view will never change. The majority would like to see good policing / investigating, transparency and justice. The few arguing with them do not want all three of those things.

Just saying it how it appears to me.

http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/koh-tao-thailand-murder-death-foreigners-28701/28701

Interesting comments on this article.

Combined with Sean's comments about there being a lot of rapes on Koh Tao it could point to a group of local people carrying out these sort of attacks over a sustained period of time.

I do not know if Sean was present that night but I think he most likely knows who the local dangermen were/are on Sairee beach with regards to female safety & fighting etc, as probably do a lot of other long termers, whether via gossip or other means.

People on that island appear to be either not bothered and maybe protecting their interests, or else scared to speak up.

Fear like that does not come from a couple of young Burmese guys so for me that is another big pointer that something is seriously amiss here and the people on trial are not the full story.

Stingray Man

We know this guy shark tooth man has previous allegations against him.

As a side note rape in an Island like KT would not be considered a serious issue due to a lack of effective reporting and investigative procedures on the Island and so I'm sure it happened quite often.

Earlier this year Phi Phi was highlighted as a major concern for unreported rapes by a Norwegian Consulate

PHUKET: A major leap forward has been taken to bring Koh Phi Phi rapists to justice, following concerns raised by the Norwegian Honorary Consul regarding jurisdiction issues which led to island rape cases failing to be fully investigated.

“We want to see police treat rape as a serious crime. We want police to bring rapists to justice. We want to ensure that police are determining whether or not an alleged victim was sexually assaulted. We want police to pursue every rape case to an end,” said Royal Norwegian Honorary Consul Pornphan Sittichaivijit http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-police-slash-red-tape-Phi-Phi/57978

Did you spot that conversation someone posted a couple of days ago between Sean and someone else - In it Sean said there were loads of rapes on Koh Tao - Most probably get either unreported or told to not make trouble by the local 'police'.

Hasn't 13th until 26th been removed from that account?

Yes looks like it, I wonder why?

Don't think they've been deleted. Can see pictures if you go to photos > albums and select Friday 12th September 2014 (a fair way down the list)

Was going to have a look at the previous week but no albums for Friday 5th and Monday 8th! Not sure if there used to be albums for those dates.

Yes and the clearing out of photos and posts from facebook is easily verified, just go to any of the facebook pages of local dj's and all those with connections to AC bar and headmans family. Sept 2015 no longer exists on their facebook. This is a fact.

There was a response from Sean about that Chris guy back in 2014 - He said he had no idea who he was. Could be genuine or could have been a local batting for Mon's team?

Anyways, whilst perusing various facebook pages I found a shared post on one (in Thai and dated 31-10-14) going into great length about how Nomsod had been cleared by DNA etc. The latter part of this message (several paragraphs) seemed to be telling people somewhat forcibly that they had to get rid of any references to the incident or risk serious trouble from the police. It was on a DJs profile (but one from Bar next 2 rather than AC bar - usual suspects on friends list though)

I copied it and ran it through bing translation, which I doubt it is desperately accurate but hopefully accurate enough that the gist is correct.

I can't post it here as it is in Thai, but it could explain why a lot of stuff from September got wiped after a month or two.

I could post the translated version maybe but cannot guarantee its accuracy.

Please pot the Thai, it is a Thailand wesite and many of us read Thai

I would but I believe posting Thai content is against the rules and will get deleted

I read recently that Muang Muang (the 3rd Burmese lad) claimed he had a tussle with Nomsod in AC bar that night (14th and 15th) and that David showed up to do or say something (pull them apart?). It may be rumor, but it's very likely MM will be a witness - probably for the defense. Even if it appears as rumor, it's the sort of thing RTP should investigate, yet it's the precise sort of the thing the RTP doesn't want to look in to. The reason is obvious: Anything which could implicate people connected to the Headman, is off-limits for investigators.

Yes I read that to in the latest Daily Mail article, but I think there are 2 separate Muang Muang's.

Person A is Muang Muang - He is a key witness who fled to Burma. He is Rhakine.

Person B is Pyo - He is a Burmese DJ at AC BAR

Person C is Myo Aung - He is also Burmese. He is a right-hand man of Nomsod's dad.

Muang Muang fled to Burma 3-4 days after the incident. He fled to Kawthoung, a border town next to Ranong Province.

The guy next to C is a Thai, Sun Thampachana, he was pictured right next to Hannah on the Koh Tao Party Bar Crawl the previous evening

Was the Sun & Hannah pub crawl picture not Friday night?

and 'right next too' means faces practically touching and her hand resting on his shoulder

The bar crawl with Hannah pictured faces together with Sun was on the 13th Sept, not sure what day of the week that fell on

Hmm 13th is a Saturday but the bar crawl is every Monday, Weds and Friday. Friday would be the 12th. maybe the pics got put up on the 13th?

OK genuine replies only

Does anybody recall or know when and how the allegations of an altercation in a bar between one of the victims and a thai first materialised

Interesting question, I hope they did not come from gossip.

If I remember correctly a witness told it to a local reporter on the island.

I read recently that Muang Muang (the 3rd Burmese lad) claimed he had a tussle with Nomsod in AC bar that night (14th and 15th) and that David showed up to do or say something (pull them apart?). It may be rumor, but it's very likely MM will be a witness - probably for the defense. Even if it appears as rumor, it's the sort of thing RTP should investigate, yet it's the precise sort of the thing the RTP doesn't want to look in to. The reason is obvious: Anything which could implicate people connected to the Headman, is off-limits for investigators.

Yes I read that to in the latest Daily Mail article, but I think there are 2 separate Muang Muang's.

Person A is Muang Muang - He is a key witness who fled to Burma. He is Rhakine.

Person B is Pyo - He is a Burmese DJ at AC BAR

Person C is Myo Aung - He is also Burmese. He is a right-hand man of Nomsod's dad.

Muang Muang fled to Burma 3-4 days after the incident. He fled to Kawthoung, a border town next to Ranong Province.

The guy next to C is a Thai, Sun Thampachana, he was pictured right next to Hannah on the Koh Tao Party Bar Crawl the previous evening

Was the Sun & Hannah pub crawl picture not Friday night?

and 'right next too' means faces practically touching and her hand resting on his shoulder

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

The prosecution alleged that Win and Saw shared a ciggie whilst taking it in turns to carry out the attack on Hannah correct?

But was the cigarette in question not found by the log, right in front of In Touch resort and 60m from the alleged crime scene?

So is the prosecution saying the crime happened by the log?

Whether you believe me or not the answer to your questions is yes and yes. That is because the Cigarette Butts where collect from 2 different locations, and as you had mentioned.

The significance of this is that in theory the DNA match from both places ties the accused to the Crime Scene, where perhaps there is no witnesses, to the spot they were sitting and playing the guitar, which has plenty of witnesses.

OK. I'm not being funny here but are you able to provide any links to that effect. I ask because I only remember seeing specific pictures of the 3 cigarettes by the log I think, but I don't remember any of cigarettes at the alleged crime scene. I could be wrong but would ideally like documented clarification as the RTP conjected that the 2 defendents shared a cigarette whilst taking it in turns to attack. thanks

Thanks Loon for posting that Youtube segment.

In case anyone is wondering whether Thailand subscribes to such silly notions as 'innocent until proven guilty'

watch the video, and you can see/hear the head cop saying they're guilty.

He also says a bunch of other conspiracy crap which isn't true, but that's what we're discussing herein, isn't it.

It's yet proof again, as if any more were needed, of the attempted frame-up of the B2. Their case is unraveling faster than a drag racing car hitting the side barrier at full throttle. Mark my words: Head cop Somyot and his fellow conspirators will split from Thailand, never to be pursued, b4 2 long. Oh, and am still waiting for my 1 million baht reward from the Headman, for providing evidence his son committed the crime. Should I quit standing by my mailbox waiting for the check?

So he claims the suspects escaped on the motorbike, (that is exactly what he said) where is the cctv footage of them leaving the crime scene on the motorbike ? and the reason this would be critical evidence is simple, it would show what time they left the beach or rather that they were possibly on the beach when the rape and murders were committed

Yes and he also states that they have the motorbike impounded too. Which leads me to say if his scenario is correct and the B2 left on the motorbike where is the DNA from the motor bike. There has to be from the state of the crime scene and the blood splattered over the sand blood etc transferred to clothing and of course then onto the bike. If this was what happened of course ! Mind you where is the B2 clothes from that night ? And the bike could,have been cleaned but I wonder if it's ever been checked. They haven't mentioned it and I suspect it wouldn't have been

If they 'escaped' on a motorbike after the crime there would surely be cctv of this?