lausie

I read an article in The Standard (UK) which suggests her mother is now demanding her body be flown back for a full autopsy in the UK saying she 'feared a cover-up'. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link here but a google search should find it.

The article also suggests Christina was an aspiring journalist. Given she was found at the InTouch resort, it's made me wonder whether she may have been doing some digging around...

Only speculation, of course!

P.s. not saying its right, but I think its a grey area that needs to be looked at in general!

I guess this raises the issue of working remotely in general. I know lots of people who get online style jobs - copy editing, writing etc, which can be done from anywhere providing you have a laptop and internet access. Many of those people have such jobs to facilitate travelling the world. Does it mean they need work or similar business visas for each place they visit?

I caught up on work emails while in Thailand last year, was I in breach?

There was a 6am and a 6.15am flight from Samui to BKK. There was also a similar red-eye flight from Chumpon to BKK, all of which would have got someone back to the condo in time for those c.9.15am cctv images.

A speedboat or similar from KT makes that journey entirely possible (someone has suggested as quick as 30mins on a jet ski, the catamaran is 2hrs so anything faster than that...)

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

Right, did he also time the murders with the boat and plane schedules so there would be absolutely no delays or did he chartered a private speed boat and airplane to do it?

Is it too much to ask for people to think before throwing more BS into the rumor mill?

Has anyone ever gone from KT to Samui in 2 hours?

No

KT to Samui in 2 hours, yes.

BS

Not possible. But then you need a flight to BKK..

There was a 6am and a 6:15am from Samui that morning arriving at 7:05am and 7:45am respectively.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

Right, did he also time the murders with the boat and plane schedules so there would be absolutely no delays or did he chartered a private speed boat and airplane to do it?

Is it too much to ask for people to think before throwing more BS into the rumor mill?

I don't suppose the murders were timed for anything, but there were a number of flight options to get back to BKK for 9.15am (if, of course, the CCTV has not been tampered with), providing one can get to a suitable airport for a red-eye.

There were numerous reports about a speedboat following the murders. DNA of the operator didn't match that from the crime scene, but that doesn't mean he didn't assist with leaving the island.

Agree with your comment about BS, same applies to rubbishing posts without thinking too

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

LOL

You have never been to Koh Tao, have you??

It doesn't have an airport.

I will leave it to you to figure out how long it takes to get to an airport.

I have, actually.

Also, re-read my post. I said "allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon".

Absolute proof you have not been thp

Believe what you want love. Needless to say, when I was on KT, I didn't have to make a dash off the island within a 4 hour timeframe but it's totally do-able if you can pull a few strings.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

LOL

You have never been to Koh Tao, have you??

It doesn't have an airport.

I will leave it to you to figure out how long it takes to get to an airport.

I have, actually.

Also, re-read my post. I said "allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon".

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

BTW from KT to BKK takes more than 4 hours. First off you must get to Samui or Chumpon then wait for a plane then get from the airport to the university.

4+ hours? Yeah, if he stops off for a Burger King and is after a new pair for flip flops at the airport.

1 hour flight + 30 mins check in + 30 mins from airport to Uni allows 2 hour grace to get to Samui or Chumpon. Might be tight, but do-able if you've got ways and means to make it happen.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

You don't have to be. You are assuming that is the only evidence that the police investigation in BKK revealed.

If there was evidence that he was in BKK for the entire period from when Hannah & David were last seen alive to when they were found murdered, it seems out of kilter with the approach taken by the RTP thus far not to provide details of same publicly and, moreover, to undertake that ridiculous and over the top spectacle yesterday.

now you are simply trolling. What is the source for your claims that those people did not know where he was for a week?

Hint: you won't be able to supply a source.

lets just make a note that you dont dispute that the guy went into hiding and try to move on

Hiding? That is your characterization. Was in BKK. Contacted the police on his own after obtaining a lawyer and exculpatory evidence, would be my characterization.

I did know you wouldn't give a source. It simply wasn't true.

I'm not entirely sure images from CCTV at his condo timestamped anywhere between 4-7 hours after the incident is exculpatory evidence, given you could travel from KT to BKK in that time period.

Yep, I mean they've for the cure for Ebola and everything!

minimum of 72 hours but after all this is amazing Thailand

I was under the believe that Proper DNA tests take a fair time to process and should be done in Forensic Laboratory.....all this rushed testing is crap and the pommy cops should insist on a proper forensic test, not just some local thai hospital.....

http://intrensic.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-does-dna-testing-take-so-long.html ..confirms this....

Something is bothering me about the initial DNA thing.

Has there been a report/confirmation that categorically says the Burmese DNA matches the DNA profile from the semen found from Hannah? I'm talking direct here: Burmese DNA - Semen DNA.

Everything I've read suggests their DNA matches that found on a cigarette and then separately that DNA found on the cigarette matches that from the semen found from Hannah: Burmese DNA - Cigarette DNA - Semen DNA.

Surely if they are satisfied that the Burmese DNA matched the semen, they'd drop the bloody cigarette bit? Why the reluctance to do that?

If I've missed a report, please share the link.

Forget the cigg butt already. It has no bearing on guilt of anyone. Same for the unused condom.

The police claimed, right after arresting the Burmese, that their DNA matched the DNA found in the victim. Some on this thread has mentioned a 3rd person's semen found on victim's chest. That's a report I must have missed. The important DNA profiles now are the 2 or 3 found with the female victim. One main reason why there's so much debate online is: it's not clear whether that DNA profile is reliable. It's the police's word, and thus far (and in prior crime cases) Thai police have been shown to lie and/or nail scapegoats. Their credibility is in the mud.

Most of us (other than JTJ and JD) are hoping the Brit experts will clear things up. However, that could be a tall order because the Thai PM has explicitly hamstrung them by insisting they be no more than 'observers.'

I think the Brits will take the gentlemanly/diplomatic way out, and not say anything which will enrage their hosts. Afterwards, when they get to Beefeater Land, one will write a very interesting book about his all-expenses-paid trip to Thailand. I'd like to co-author it (I've had a dozen books published).

Is this Police claim documented anywhere public?

Yes,it has it's not something one would make up. You need to go to the beginning of the case and start from there.

Love a bit of dry wit!

Something is bothering me about the initial DNA thing.

Has there been a report/confirmation that categorically says the Burmese DNA matches the DNA profile from the semen found from Hannah? I'm talking direct here: Burmese DNA - Semen DNA.

Everything I've read suggests their DNA matches that found on a cigarette and then separately that DNA found on the cigarette matches that from the semen found from Hannah: Burmese DNA - Cigarette DNA - Semen DNA.

Surely if they are satisfied that the Burmese DNA matched the semen, they'd drop the bloody cigarette bit? Why the reluctance to do that?

If I've missed a report, please share the link.

Forget the cigg butt already. It has no bearing on guilt of anyone. Same for the unused condom.

The police claimed, right after arresting the Burmese, that their DNA matched the DNA found in the victim. Some on this thread has mentioned a 3rd person's semen found on victim's chest. That's a report I must have missed. The important DNA profiles now are the 2 or 3 found with the female victim. One main reason why there's so much debate online is: it's not clear whether that DNA profile is reliable. It's the police's word, and thus far (and in prior crime cases) Thai police have been shown to lie and/or nail scapegoats. Their credibility is in the mud.

Most of us (other than JTJ and JD) are hoping the Brit experts will clear things up. However, that could be a tall order because the Thai PM has explicitly hamstrung them by insisting they be no more than 'observers.'

I think the Brits will take the gentlemanly/diplomatic way out, and not say anything which will enrage their hosts. Afterwards, when they get to Beefeater Land, one will write a very interesting book about his all-expenses-paid trip to Thailand. I'd like to co-author it (I've had a dozen books published).

Is this Police claim documented anywhere public?

Something is bothering me about the initial DNA thing.

Has there been a report/confirmation that categorically says the Burmese DNA matches the DNA profile from the semen found from Hannah? I'm talking direct here: Burmese DNA - Semen DNA.

Everything I've read suggests their DNA matches that found on a cigarette and then separately that DNA found on the cigarette matches that from the semen found from Hannah: Burmese DNA - Cigarette DNA - Semen DNA.

Surely if they are satisfied that the Burmese DNA matched the semen, they'd drop the bloody cigarette bit? Why the reluctance to do that?

If I've missed a report, please share the link.

(Link to Thai PBS removed as mods will probably delete any posts including it as it is not in Thai.)

Thai PBS investigated the doubts that have been expressed about the CCTV evidence produced by Mon's lawyer placing him in Bangkok. While not conclusive, it does seem to show Mon leaving the dorm at 9:16 am and not entering between 3:00 am and that time. It also shows no injuries of the type that had been reported. There are still various ways this might have been faked, but I give his alibi more credence.

There appears to be a chap outside the door at around 4:21am and another at around 6am (stills attached).

Of course it may not be him at either time but there is clearly movement in that lobby throughout the period 3am-9am.

The United Kingdom should verify whether or not they have been able to obtain their own DNA sample from the victims on arrival to the UK, and these samples should be used. Nobody with an average intelligent, or above, trusts the Thai police or the system in general

If the UK has independent samples and/or other evidence (very uncertain), there are two ways they can play it.

1. They can keep their cards close to their chests, observe and ask questions, planning to present all their findings at the UK inquest in January.
2. They can make clear to the Thai authorities in private that they have evidence disproving the current RTP version of events, calling for a proper investigation and threatening to go public if the Thai authorities do not comply. The problem with that could be that the RTP concoct another fairy tale with the benefit of knowing the UK evidence they must work around.

I don't agree with pussy footing around, they should get it over with now, they may not have another opportunity.

Agree. If they have it, then call them out...now!

I don't agree, it has to be (and will be) a measured approach. Giving out info willy nilly before they are fully prepared will give leeway to create fake alibis (read: more dubious CCTV pics) etc.

We want to be in a position where 'evidence' can be batted back and rubbished IN FULL, not peacemeal.

The United Kingdom should verify whether or not they have been able to obtain their own DNA sample from the victims on arrival to the UK, and these samples should be used. Nobody with an average intelligent, or above, trusts the Thai police or the system in general

As much as want them to, I doubt the UK authorities will confirm either way as doing so might jeopardise matters.

I suspect (and hope) that they HAVE managed to obtain their own DNA profiles from the bodies, and hopefully a fully and thorough forensic examination may have found other DNA sources (e.g. skin under fingernails) so that they're not relying purely on semen found with Hannah.

Here is an interesting question for you and extremely pertinent!

Why was Nom Sod EVER suspected to be prime suspect?

He was in Bangkok!!!!!!!!!, so why would the police ever connect him in the first place.

Most murders are committed by people that you know. However, Nom Sod has no connection to the suspects whatsoever, so why was he suspected?

If you can answer this question then you have solved the case imo

This is a good question. Did the RTP ever formally confirm that he was a suspect?

I seem to recall a few news articles that suggested suspects had been called for questioning and that's when Montrivet and Woraphan both attended and were released but another suspect was thought to be in Bangkok....was that an official line or just a media term?

Whilst I understand that British police are in Thailand purely to observe, I highly suspect that they are putting a huge amount of pressure on RTP.

They can't interfer, but I have no doubt that they are asking questions, even if rhetorical in nature. If sufficient answers can't be provided, the RTP may start to feel professionally embarrassed. This is pure speculation, of course, but I highly suspect the British Police are behind the sudden decision by BKK uni boy to provide DNA and the retesting of the Burmese 2.

I sincerely hope that both bodies were subject to a thorough forensic examination when they were returned to the UK. Can you imagine if the new results come back and the UK suddenly pull their own DNA profile reports from their breifcases for comparitive purposes. Ok I doubt that would happen, but it bloody well should!

Is this another ploy to try and divert media attention from Koh Tao? A bit like their cure for Ebola? Hmmmm.

Surely not much to prepare for seeing as they've got the cure?!

The people behind the Change.org petition are delivering it to Downing Street at 12pm this Friday. If you're London based or can get there to support, please do.

They've contacted all the big media houses (BBC, Sky, Guardian, Dailymail etc) to get coverage. The more people out to support, the more press it will get.

More info on the petition page or their twitter account.

(I'm posting this on the relevant threads so apologies for duplicating)

Deaths at Koh Tao UK, Myanmar 'can observe'

PM says representatives welcome to inspect Koh Tao murder site with local police.

The United Kingdom and Myanmar are welcome to "observe" progress on the Koh Tao murders case and can send personnel to visit the site and gather information alongside Thai police, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

Although the Thai side is confident that police have arrested the right people for the murder of two British backpackers, Prayut said police were ready to share information with both countries if they remain suspicious.

The premier was speaking after ambassadors from the two countries met with Police chief Pol General Somyot Pumpanmuang and Foreign Ministry officials and were briefed on details of the investigation that led to the arrest of two migrant workers from Myanmar.

(...)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-Myanmar-can-observe-30245501.html

First impressions is its encouraging

Clue here is the word "observe" I do NOT for one second think they are going to be allowed to send personnel and gather information and co op as it suggests.

Dont forget this is the nation and well known for mincing with words.

I'll believe the full cooperation bit and allowed full access when the UK gov says it is. i just dont believe anything coming out of Thailand re this case atm.

Completely agree. IF he did say the UK & Myanmar can observe then that is all it will be.

And then, when the UK Govt officially anounce that there were a number of irregularities, the Thai PM will issue a counter statement along the lines of "The UK Govt confirmed they were impressed by our good detective skills and have invited the head of the RTP to the UK in order that they can train the Metropolitan Police to be as good as our force"