John Kane

This topic and its comments are great evidence of ambivalence regrading trafficking. If someone helps a North Korean cross a border, that is good. If someone helps other kinds of refugees, that is bad. Very confusing. For me this is further evidence that forcing developing countries like Thailand to accept and enforce new trafficking laws is really about controlling movement of people - just like visas and fences - for the benefit of wealthy countries. In another 20-30 years large swaths of Africa, SoEast Asia, and most poorer countries might look like giant refugee camps. Quasi-slave like conditions, where families are feed in exchange for work, might be a desirable way of life. Help from criminals might be the only way most people can hope to cross a border. Do you disagree? What is your extrapolation into the future?

I like my condo a half K down Sukhumvit Soi 65. One thing I like is that about half of us are farang with many French speakers to spice up the place. But you sound picky. Good luck.

Being "with" a sex worker under 18 is very serious business. You can be in a country where the age of consent is less than 18, as it is in the majority of US states by the way, and if this becomes known to American authorities, for example because you are both identified due to other legal interaction, you can spend a lot of time in jail and a lifetime on sex offender lists. Regardless of AofC the real age for any international relationship is 18 now! You may be met at the border for breaking American law, even if, as I said, what you did was NOT illegal in the country you came from or in the state you live in. This is part of the American social panic over trafficking you need to understand.

Empower Foundation helps teach sex workers many things they need to know. But it is customers who also need to know more about proper relationships as the world tightens up around you and your old concepts of relationships with women.

It now appears that several thousand Rohingya are on the move in boats or camps or have already completed their journey. As many as 100 police and local government officials may have at the least turned a blind eye. Police and local leaders are rarely corrupt in these numbers. There are some thugs and profiteers, of course, but we should know how big their role was in this? Was it the intention of so many people to deliberately starve or kill people? I doubt it.

Is it possible that this story is timely due to Thailand's seemingly desperate need to convince America to return Thailand to higher TIP status in June? Is it possible that the real story is about Rohingya rescuing themselves? Slow moving bureaucracy from either ASEAN countries or from IOM or UNHCR leaves Rohingya in danger of possible genocide, in my opinion. This is a clear case where the issue is migration, not criminal justice. Bad guys need to be brought to justice but the real issue is safe migration of an endangered minority.

I have to laugh at the some comments. One person said that he just knew that Rohingja were killed when they refused to be slaves, or some crap like that. I don't suppose many people in this very humorous format will consider that 50+ police and other local officials close to the border might be considered heroes to the Rohingja who are desperate for help to escape oppression. I see no evidence that qualifies this situation as trafficking no matter how many times that word is used in print. I, unlike some others here, am well aware of the difference between trafficking and smuggling. In the article a smuggler - not a trafficker - got 2300 baht each to drive 10 people to the border. That is only about $715 total which seems very reasonable considering the risk he took. This whole problem is solved by settling aside traditional nationalism and letting Rohingja migrate to a place - presumably Muslim majority countries - who will take them. The social panic regarding trafficking originating in America prevents normal agreements to settle refugees, and these are refugees. It appears that Rohingja can pay for their relocation with classic indentured servitude which is not the same as slavery. NGOs are making their reputation misrepresenting these things and it is useful for us, the public, to get it right.

The comments took an interesting turn. Many of us are used to seeing very callous comments about Thai people as well as comments attacking Thai police or government. This is a little different - and good to see - because we here are showing some kindness for the suffering of the smuggled people. I doubt these people meet the definition of trafficked people and are much more likely to have been smuggled. The difference is important because so many activities are thrown under the trafficking umbrella that a whole new sensationalized category of crime is the result. We are in the process of demonizing the word "trafficking" to mean something stronger than it really is just as the word prostitution is mush more volatile than "sex worker" - and that is the point. Demonize something beyond its reality so we all hate even if we fail to understand it.

I agree with eeze. I am often put off by what I read here. So many people so often jump to prejudicial assumptions. Agains, who said the fancy car was rented? Who said the driver was drunk? Almost all police I see are on 250cc Thai made motorcycles, Sorry but I forget the brand. This cop was on a Yamaha 300cc, a mighty nice bike I think. What assumptions should we jump to about that. It said the policeman made a sudden U turn. That is information, not an assumption. Sure the farang was speeding but people do that at 2 am. If the policeman behaved without showing proper care - like looking both ways - maybe this really was truly an accident.

Some moderators ought to speak up about all this crazy talk by self proclaimed old timers here who have nothing better to do but be negative al the time. That gets very boring quickly.

Enough with the coupon jokes. How do I get my hands on those TM47 forms we will need? I will bet they will become hard to find.

I had a big advantage when I came to Thailand because I lived for three years in Albania, two in the Dominican Republic, and a few months in Vietnam. Each had horrible disadvantages, but some great things to say about them too. So I was prepared for much worse than Thailand will ever have to offer me. I have seen real trash, really bad drivers, and horrible healthcare. In many ways Thailand still looks like a paradise. Before coming here new expats would benefit from exposure to other countries poorer than Thailand, in my opinion.

Consider if you will that a lot of this kind of thing is highly exaggerated. Yes, what was described in this new story defies all humanity but the stories are often sensationalized to get the kind of powerful emotional reactions you are providing to this anti-trafficking industry. Your remarks, and I hope mine but fat chance for mine, will be picked up and used to attack trafficking around the world in ways you may not agree with.

Currently two Swedish men - Solemo & Sederholm - are in Philippine prison for life for operating a cyber sex business. Note: I did say LIFE. They were arrested in 2009 but cyber sex did not become illegal until 2012. All women were over 18 according to a police report but NGO news reports said there were minors. All women, 19 of them as I recall, were sent to a rehab center and they tried to escape. One woman - only one out of 18 - said she was forced to strip in front of a camera making this a trafficking case. These women preferred cyber sex to prostitution. The other women think that single witness in court was an NGO plant. But the men are still serving their life sentence. Below is a FaceBook site the "victims" participate in called "Release the Five". It is their issue that deserves support too.

See: https://www.facebook.com/everybodyneedsfreedom

Get out of the country and come back to BKK. Soi dogs fighting, seriously fighting, wake me most nights.

Just one more plus to my move to TH.

Tiny Thai ladies always tell me my best friend is too big.

Better still, I believe them!

Amazing Thailand.

After listening to those same Thai girls I am wonder how to grow another inch so I can star in some porn movies.

I would like to mention that Allan B did not say he wanted to tour nor did he say he had a passenger in mind in his original question. He is large though.

I had a great experience with Honda's CBR 250 and it has just grown a little now to 300cc with more models too. I saw a motard version yesterday. I assume it is great like my CBR 250.

I am recovering from a motorcycle accident, one of the very common slow speed kind. Sunday was a very busy day at Big C. Usually I park my Honda CTX 700cc automatic among the cars instead of going into the special area for scooters. Because there were a lot of cars I went in the scooter area where they expect me to go. My mistake. It was a tight turn going in but coming out there were the back to back 90 degree turns with an ankle high railing along a to narrow path. Scooters went in and out with ease but I got stuck because my 220 kg long full size motorcycle couldn't make the tight turns. As I tried to unstick it it fell over on me. Because my leg was also stuck in the tight quarters I fell hard on my back. I have a sore spot on the left and a right kidney that hurts. I think that CBS 300 would wiggle in and out of there okay, not as easily as a scooter. But I usually ride back and forth to BKK, and Pattaya from Surin and this Honda CTX is great on the highway. I learned my lesson and won't try to go every where the scooters go.

Don't forget next weekend's International GP Motocross. Google it if you are a motocross fan. It is near Pattaya and Chomburi on March 7 & 8th. I'll be there with a sore back - but there!

The entire world is being dragged around by its nose because of the nexus of prudish American culture, radical American feminists, and the American religious right. For Americans trafficking is about sex. Trafficking is routinely confused with willing prostitution. Labor is secondary. Thailand is on the right track with better regulation of the fishing industry and other labor trafficking issues. Trafficking is about population increases and lack of unskilled jobs. Countries have to stand up to American's understanding of trafficking only as a criminal justice issue or they will find themselves on the wrong side of history as the villains, not the good guys. Trafficking is a migration issue and must be dealt with in that way.

A little less crying over trafficking as a criminal justice issue and more understanding of trafficking as a migration / population issue will be better in the long run. The real problem is a world population that will reach 8 billion by 2020 - and fewer unskilled jobs than ever before. Some families survive based on whomever can find some work will work. These workers under 18 might be orphans or have escaped - yes escaped - from a refugee camp. The factory owners / managers may have been kind in their own way by supplying some food and not expected a lot of physical labor. We don't know. We have to be careful to fully understand what is happening in each case. In the future we all face there will likely be many unusual arrangements that may appear horrible or look like slavery to the kind hearted suburban do gooders who have never missed a meal. But what looks horrible to some might be the best people can find for themselves in the poorest outposts around the world. While first world suburban housewives pitch in to save "victims" though NGOs and American demands, a rich history already exists of poor people being sent back to situations far worse than they were "rescued" from. The real story of trafficking is highly exaggerated and even distorted. Trafficking laws, like visas and fences, are used as a way to control people. Those people could some day be us!

Here is a crazy idea I hate to share. I live in a privately owned dormitory next to a Rajabhat University in a smallish town. Rent - 3,500, utiities less than 500, includes pretty good internet and parking. So, my housing expense is less than 9% of your income, and 3.5% of mine. I cook with a hot plate, toaster, water heater. I will probably add a microwave one of these days. It is a new building. The room is 196 sq feet not counting the bathroom and porch. I am surrounded by young people who don't mind me being here and are quite friendly. I could do some English tutoring if I want, but don't. I have taken part in some university activities. There is a lot of live music I can walk too and the normal compliment of farang bars and restaurants close by too. Some movies are in English. I use an okay health club which included a 25 meter pool for 1,500 a month. I am in a relationship with a college PhD across the street. She washes/irons my clothes, and expects a booty call a couple of times a week. Sorry, no beach here, but a pretty good lifestyle. Check around the local college towns especially between semesters and you too can get a dorm room. As I recall there 42 Rajabhat universities and lots of other schools too.

A reply here asked if the crime rate is so horrible in the USA that people feel the need to have a gun. Actually the crime rate ion USA is at a 20 year low but it is highly exaggerated and sensationalize just as so many other issues are. The crazy think Americans are taught to think about international trafficking of people is off the wall crazy. US people have a lot to be afraid of due more to media than anything else. Very sad but probably common among declining imperial super powers. Oh well, good to be in Thailand. Right guys?!

I have ridden in some truly crazy places in my time - Albania, Dominican Republic - but here in Thailand I still marvel at the trick of me riding down the middle of the right lane at what I conisder a safe speed like maybe 110 k/h when a full size car will fly past me on my right using every inch of any berm. Some times it seems like I get only a few inches to spare. If they don't fly up behind me at high speed and I get a chance to see them coming or if they would just beep their horn, I would gladly move over.

Motorcycle safety isn't only about Thailand. On an Italian freeway south of Naples two smart ass guys in full leathers once flew past me on their motorcycles on both sides like I was standing still. That would not have been worth mentioning except that I was going at about 150 k/h myself on my 1100 cc BMW. Yikes!

Since most of my riding is on the Thai highways between cities I would really like to see real motorcycles, but maybe not scooters, be allowed to use toll roads. What can we do about that discrimination? Getting in and out of Bangkok (rt 9) would be so much easier if all roads were available to real motorcycles.

Some fellow readers will find this interesting. I met Condi a couple of times but only to sit next to her on our respective Lifecycles in the Main State gym. She is okay, but to smart to run for President. Why would anyone want that kind of punishment? She was not yet Sec State at the time they are talking about here. For me there is no question that, if State Department's Diplomatic Security (DS) was involved I would have no surprise at what I read here about the chance this poor schmuck is being railroaded. DS has a history of deciding who is trustworthy and who they will attack. DS will fabricate whatever they need to protect their own and carry on a dishonest fight against other employees who just rub them wrong. Maybe you can still find some of the personal testimonies about that kind of behavior at this old website:

http://www.worldcrafters.com Better yet, start here: http://www.worldcrafters.com/advice.html

Some years ago when I first arrived there was a case in Phuket where British and American men, both Moi Thai students had a fight. The American won but the Brit went followed him home with a knife and killed the America, or at least that was the story in the paper. The Brit ran for the border. There were several reports on efforts to extradite the British man back to Thailand for trial. I would love to see BKK Post and/or ThaiVisa do follow up stories on this kind of well known case in the pattern of "Where are they now?" I'd like to know the bad guys are sitting in a jail somewhere. I would be comforted by knowing that. I often feel greater fear of hopped up farangs I see at times than I do Thais.

I just read about people talking tests of Thai language skill when taking Thai language with an education visa. But I am considering taking advanced education courses at a Thai university that teaches classes in English language, not Thai. Will there be any testing or whatever related to that? Does immigration think every farang is taking Thai language? Comments?

When you offer pay so low as to be be difficult to live in the face of temptation why would anyone think that police would not be organized in their corruption. When I lived in Albania police used to stop traffic on the edge of all small towns to collect tea money and no one seemed to mind paying it because they knew police where so poorly paid. Without better pay or other of off setting rewards it is hard to believe a few publicized arrests like this will last more than a month or so before the old system comes right back. The police officers were willing to pay those big fees for assignments to where they would make it back quickly with the illicit income they too could make in one area instead of another.

We are hearing about riding in an illegal place, so, do readers know that ALL toll roads are closed to all motorcycles? I just rode my $17,000 700cc Honda in from Surin via route 226 to Rt 2 to Rt 1 with intentions of connecting with Rt 9 which takes me to my neighborhood were I know my way around. But noooo! Only after getting there did I learn that Rt 9 is a toll road at that point! I got very lost somewhere near the Mo Chit BTS and wasted 30 minutes just finding my way to known territory. We should be asking why toll roads are completely off limits to full size motorcycles. That explains why someone with a serious piece of machinery is doing something illegal. And this might have a lot to do with why he died. I could have been me and maybe this guy wasn't such a crazy driver. Maybe he just was in unknown territory under pressure to get out of that illegal area he found his way into.