moonoi

Foreigners are not allowed to fly domestic/internal commercial flights in Thailand, so you better stay at home then.

You forgot:

Torque: massive torque, specially on the front wheel that stress the rim and spokes. That doesn't exist on the old style brakes. No Radial spokes possible. Need 2 or 3 cross

Yes, torsional stress is an issue, but only with cheap/lightweight wheels. In 2013, I broke 10-12 spokes of my Roval wheels running down Doi Pui on fast tracks. I finally had enough and rebuilt both wheels.

A rim brake can be made suprisingly strong, equalling or exceeding the breaking power of a disk break. For example, trials bikes often use huge rim breaks on roughened rims. The main disadvantage of rim brakes is that they do not perform well/consistent in mud and water. Also, rim overheating and tyre damage are still problems, although it's not very common.

Of course, disk brakes can overheat as well. Yesterday, Kelly McGarry had a big crash in China. Front break overheated and gave out... going down a 50% gradient.

Cheers, CM-Expat

I'd say that rim brakes would have probably suffered the same fate, even Kelly said his 97kg weight coupled with 1000ft of 50 degree stairs at race pace, were probably the reasons his brakes overheated and essentially became a runaway train, lucky he escaped with just cuts and bruises requiring a few stitches, it looked a lot more serious for him that it eventually turned out. Nothing left of his wheels though!

Its all about selling bikes and marketing. The disc brakes seem to be moving onto racing bikes now. I dont think they will become established though. The small rotor gets very hot on a mountain descent. Forks have to be beefed up. It all weighs more than the current brakes. Racers like to slow down rather than come to a sudden stop. How easy is it to do a fast wheel change during the TDF?

Remember Shimano Biopace chainsets in the late 80's early 90's. Totally discarded after a couple of years but for those few years it was the latest thing and helped sell more bikes. Money was made even if it wasnt an improvement.

yes I think it is all marketing.......Shimano Biopace, I always wanted to try it, the arguments sounded good to me and now I can not find it anywhere

Just try Rotor Q Rings or Osymetric rings instead, these actually work (with data to back them up), whereas Biopace didn't. Disadvantage though is poorer shifting than round chainrings, and in my opinion they look stupid ;-)

Disc brakes will be trialled in the UCI World Tour this year. It's not just about braking power, but feel and modulation is better.

There is a safety side too, as the disc brakes don't heat up the rim, there is less like a chance for tubular tyres to become so hot they detach from the rim, or puncture, as happened in the Tour of Dubai earlier this year.

As for weight, the extra strength needed in the frame is around 50g and because you no longer need a brake track on the rim, you save weight there as well, overall the difference is negligible.

For the average user the benefit is you don't have to throw away your wheelset when the brake track wears out, just replace the rotor.

Just from a personal experience, I've come down khao yai on both my hydraulic disc brake equipped MTB and by old caliper equipped road bike. On the road bike I lost a lot of breaking performance around halfway down as the brake track got too hot, a very scary feeling when you pull the lever all the way to the bars and your change in velocity is not very much. Braking power returned once the rims had cooled down, however I didn't experience the same with the disc brakes on my MTB.

I don't think this is just to try and sell more bikes, disc brakes (done properly) have a real tangible benefit, more than just better braking performance in the wet).

I seem to remember mountain bikers throwing up similar issues about why existing brakes were good enough, when disc brakes were first introduced in that application many moons ago, and now look at them ;-)

I doubt that, the disc has weight, you need more spokes. tubular tyres aren't very common anymore. If it get hot and lost so much performance, you have the wrong pads. I had never that issue in the alps, sometimes I got a slight burned smell but the performance was still OK. I understand that the heat might be a problem on carbon rims, but adding the disc brake and the more, longer spokes you loose all the weight advantage.

The only advantage I see is to get rid of the wear on the rim, specially in dirty environment.

My mistake it was the Tour of Oman, you can read about what happens with heat and both tubular/clincher tyres here, if you're interested http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-hot-tires-rims-oman_361634

With regards to weight, let's take the Zipp 303 as an example:

Top Features of the Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Tubular Disc Brake Wheelset

Firecrest Tubular Carbon Rim

Weight: 1435g

Hub Used: 88 Disc Front / 188 Disc Brake Rear

Hub Width: 100mm Front / 135mm Rear

Rim Depth: 45mm

Brake Track Width (centre): 26.40mm

Max Width: 28.50mm

Spoke Count: 24 Front, Rear

Spoke Length Non-Drive: 264mm

Spoke Pattern Non-Drive: Virtual 3 cross

Spoke Pattern Drive: Virtual 3 cross

Spoke Length Drive: 262mm

Spoke Pattern Front: 2 Cross

Spoke Length Front: 256mm

Top Features of the Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Tubular Wheelset

Firecrest Tubular Carbon Rim

Weight: 1310g

Hub Used: 88 Front / 188/V9 Rear

Rim Depth: 45mm

Brake Track Width (centre): 26.45mm

Max Width: 28.50mm

Nominal Tyre Bed Width: 17.98mm

Spoke Count: 18 Front / 24 Rear

Spoke Length Non-Drive: 252mm

Spoke Pattern Non-Drive: 2 cross

Spoke Pattern Drive: 2 cross

Spoke Length Drive: 250mm

Spoke Pattern Front: Radial

Spoke Length Front: 264mm

11-speed compatible hub: Yes

Track Adaptable: No

Dimpled Surface: Yes

External Nipples: Yes

Just 125g difference, and only the front wheel needs more spokes. Part of the weight difference will also be down to the rear hub which is slightly larger, following the old MTB 135mm standard width. And this is just early days, I'd expect in time we'll see lighter wheels as experience builds.

Disc brakes will be trialled in the UCI World Tour this year. It's not just about braking power, but feel and modulation is better.

There is a safety side too, as the disc brakes don't heat up the rim, there is less like a chance for tubular tyres to become so hot they detach from the rim, or puncture, as happened in the Tour of Dubai earlier this year.

As for weight, the extra strength needed in the frame is around 50g and because you no longer need a brake track on the rim, you save weight there as well, overall the difference is negligible.

For the average user the benefit is you don't have to throw away your wheelset when the brake track wears out, just replace the rotor.

Just from a personal experience, I've come down khao yai on both my hydraulic disc brake equipped MTB and by old caliper equipped road bike. On the road bike I lost a lot of breaking performance around halfway down as the brake track got too hot, a very scary feeling when you pull the lever all the way to the bars and your change in velocity is not very much. Braking power returned once the rims had cooled down, however I didn't experience the same with the disc brakes on my MTB.

I don't think this is just to try and sell more bikes, disc brakes (done properly) have a real tangible benefit, more than just better braking performance in the wet).

I seem to remember mountain bikers throwing up similar issues about why existing brakes were good enough, when disc brakes were first introduced in that application many moons ago, and now look at them ;-)

That would be a great all round bike for Thailand. But its missing rear rack braze ons for when you decide to do a little thai tour. I would have triple chainset for the steep hills or for when you are totally worn out and need the low gears even for the not so steeps hills.

h90 its hard not to have disc brakes nowadays on a new bike. Disc brakes are everywhere. I would be happy with cable operated cantilevers though.

According to the article there are rack and mudguard eyelets for touring.

Don't really see triple chain sets on road bikes these days, mostly just compact or semi-compact.

Put some 2.5 inch tires on it, a front shock, hydraulic disk brakes, and it would indeed be perfect!

Well it can go up to 35mm, not too shabby for a gravel grinder.

Next you'll be telling me you want flat bars and a dropper seatpost ;-)

The GT Grade Tiagra, comes as standard with Thai flags all over it :-) and cheaper than a Look 695 Thai flag edition, even if you have to pay all the import costs yourself ;-)

Review here http://road.cc/content/news/152195-just-gt-grade-alloy-tiagra

Peter Sagan - as we know - can ride a bike:

I really like Sagan, just wish he hadn't signed with that idiot Tinkoff! Should have stayed with Cannondale :-)

The Geax Saguaro tires are made in Thailand and work great. Used them the last two rainy seasons and they have good grip and don't tend to pack clay.

And boring fact of the day, Geax are now known as Vittoria - North America, so you can now find their tyres under both brands, as if choosing a tyre isn't complicated enough ;-)

*Geax has always been owned by Vittoria, but they decided to rebrand as they weren't being very successful in the U.S.

If you want good tyre, and easy to find in Thailand, then you can't go far wrong with the Racing Ralphs.

There's also the ubiquitous Racing Ralphs, had them on my 29er XC bike, and they were a great allrounder, front and rear. But out of everything. I found the conti combination above the most confidence inspiring :-)

I switched out Maxxis Ardent/High Roller combination for Continental Trail King/Race King. I prefer this combo on my HT and provides more grip that you might thing in the sticky slimy stuff.

As the shops only charge 200-300bth to completely clean and lube the gears, why would you even bother?

My bike gears and selectors look like new after the shop did it.

Well for me, it's more convenient to do it myself. Take it to the shop and you've lost most of the day, best case it's a couple of hours.

I only take it to the shop if it's something I can't do myself, it's about the time it takes rather than the cost.

I would say a cyclo cross type bike would have no problem on that track. Its nice to be on the drops speeding along a dirt track.

Funny you say that, I'll be picking up that Giant TCX SLR2 end of the month, I'll be keeping all the others too of course ;-) only problem is the Doc said it will be at least a month before I can ride again, in fact I've been a very naughty boy by not staying at home and resting apparently, so he signed me off work for 7 days and told me to stay home and not move unless I really have to

I, and that is NOT an advice, wouldn't care what the doc says and do what my feeling tells me that I can do....Of course with safety margin....

Me too, unfortunately this time wasn't the time to behave so, if the damage to my thigh continues to create large hematoma, seems MRI scan and possible surgery is in order to stop it bleeding internally. At least the blood isn't infected, which apparently can happen often here!

If any one does get to ride it please let us know how it is, Doc just told me will be at least a month off the bike, so I won't be able to check it out as planned

I would say a cyclo cross type bike would have no problem on that track. Its nice to be on the drops speeding along a dirt track.

Funny you say that, I'll be picking up that Giant TCX SLR2 end of the month, I'll be keeping all the others too of course ;-) only problem is the Doc said it will be at least a month before I can ride again, in fact I've been a very naughty boy by not staying at home and resting apparently, so he signed me off work for 7 days and told me to stay home and not move unless I really have to

So I tried to post a video of my last attempt around the Club 11 track, but didn't know why the you tube link didn't work

Finally read the article on how to embed youtube videos so here you go, bit late in the post, but never mind

Plan to go this weekend, as it's just a couple of km from my house. That's assuming my leg has healed enough and the dr gives me the ok to ride after my accident a couple of weeks back.

I hear you about the reluctance to pack the bike off to a start point. All group rides seem to start far from my home and I am spoiled for choice right from my front door. I just can’t bring myself to drive for an hour to a start point and then have to drive home again, all hot and sweaty after a long ride.

Problem is, the lack of hills in Bangkok means I'm also damn slow riding up!

Roads the Mode. Much more fun in a Chain gang talking about how good you were when you were young. A bit hard to do this when your riding single track.

Whereas on singletrack, you have to be 100% in the present rather than in the past, because otherwise you make mistakes and eat dust. That's what I love about offroad riding.

People sure have strong opinions about what other people should be doing or not doing. When it comes to riding my bike, I have three main considerations. Where I ride, when I ride and how I ride.

Haha, very true. Actually, I am pretty sure that we will neither turn @moonoi into a Steve Peat, nor will we talk you into jumping 3m road gaps. The only strong opinion I have is that one should try out other disciplines from time to time. At the very least, it's an interesting experience and it might change one's perspective.

Cheers, CM-Expat

I'm ok with being a Danny Macaskill though ;-)

Thing about MTB is I want to love it, I love watching it, but so far riding off road feels a bit 'meh' to me.

Hmm a theme here, Martyn Ashton, Danny Macaskill......maybe I should try my hand at Trials instead......

Martyn Ashton's 'Roadbike Party' series shows what is possible.

Actually, that shows what you should never try on a road bike.

You do know that Martyn Ashton is now a paraplegic, don't you?

Not really, given that his injuries were sustained during a trials demo at the British Moto GP and wasn't riding a road bike at the time........

Going on from that, I think Martyn Ashton is a true cycling legend, and a good role model, as despite his injuries he is still riding and hasn't given up on his dreams.

I was looking at a Giant TCX for that reason, but I don't think even CX bike could tackle Club 11s single track for example.

The Giant Reign is a super nice enduro bike I once considered buying, but 160mm travel is definitely overkill for Club 11. With a 65 deg head angle, short stack, high BB the geometry is gravity-oriented which implies some compromises in pedalling efficiency. It's half way to a full DH bike and if you are used to riding a road bike, it might feel slow and sluggish.

Most road riders would probably find it easier to to adapt their riding style to a lighter XC frame featuring a steeper head angle, higher seat and lower bar. Also, I can't think of any terrain in and around Bangkok that could not be tackled with an XC bike, even with a hardtail.

Building up the bike yourself should be fun and educational, but acquiring parts in Thailand can be time-consuming and frustrating. I'd love to do it myself, but I don't have a lot of free time and I prefer to spend it riding, so I'd just get a fully built bike.

Cheers, CM-Expat

I had an XC HT bike (still got the frame and wheels actually), switched it out for the current All Mountajn HT I have, it is better, but still I don't like it very much. So I plan to sell it, get the Reign X frame and build it up. Maybe overkill for what is local to me, but I'm hoping it will be more "fun" to ride and then I'll be more happy to go exploring terrain it is more suited for. Just thinking building it myself probably adds to the satisfaction as well. Hopefully they don't sell it before I get the chance to pop back to the store on Sat

btw anyone I interested in a Merida 21" Big Nine Lite frame and wheels (no fork), or a Commencal Meta AM Size L built up with SRAM X0, Magura MT4 brakes and RaceFace Atlas stem and bars.....drop me a PM

So changing topic slightly, would you buy the frame and build it up, or go fully built and why?

Buy the frame and build it yourself, because you will gain knowledge that you will eventually need for frequent adjustments and trailside repairs, which are part and parcel of full-sus trail riding. Just choosing components is an education in itself.

Specially on cheaper bikes, the frame might be good and some of the key parts but all the other components are complete crap. On my Trek bike I have to exchange almost everything that has Bontrager written on it.

Wheels: bearings not perfect, one tire immediately flat, one get cracks after 400 km only

Rust on the screws everywhere after 400 km

Using quality components from the beginning saves money in the long range.

It's interesting, because my experience withy Bontrager finishing kits on a Trek Madone 3.1 (also bought from your favourite shop) is quite the opposite. Robust, decent quality, but perhaps not the lightest out there.

@H90 Have you tried using Sufferfest linked to TrainerRoad yet? Or even Zwift? Both make indoor training quite a bit more interesting :-)

One kind of bike i come back to all the time is my old Specialized Tricross. A 700c cyclo cross/ road bike/ tourer/ off roader. A sort of do it all bike which rides really smooth on the roads and can do all most everything a mountain bike can. The relevance to this thread is you can ride out of town on the road but head off down the first dirt track you see. You can leave rhe roads behind. A great bike to explore on.

I was looking at a Giant TCX for that reason, but I don't think even CX bike could tackle Club 11s single track for example.

The missus is being firm, I've convinced her it's not worth me selling my road bike so I'm probably going to buy some rollers and just use the road bike indoors, so I can switch between the turbo and rollers and not get too bored I hope. And I've seen a nice Giant Reign X frame at a good price, so thinking to pick that up and build it up myself as a project while I recover from my accident and then go practice at Club 11 and Peppermint. I heard there is some good tracks out by U Tapao (not sure of spelling) base as well, maybe I need to find some MTB club to ride with sometimes as well.

I can't not ride, but want to keep the missus happy as well, and seems I might get another bike out of it as well ;-) maybe if I'm more serious with MTB as well, it might be more fun this time?

So changing topic slightly, would you buy the frame and build it up, or go fully built and why?