goreme

Doesnt the same thing happen in the west as it's much cheaper to order extra than it is to run out, stop work and have to resupply piecemeal.

That's why project costs are always general estimates.

And do those accidents you witnessed account for the totality of accidents throughout Thailand, or perhaps just a small percentage in a limited area(Pattaya, Phuket) based on anecdoctal evidence...

Ah, yes, the standard "bash the US" response.

And youre not bashing Thais?

But did you ever take the time to consider that those in the US, and most other civilized countries in the world, are taught a different set of moral and ethical standards? Or is that too much for you to comprehend?

What are these superior morals/ethical standards you speak of?

First off, the last time I was in Pattaya/Phuket was over 30 years ago, and it will be another 30 before I set foot in them again, by which time I'll probably be dead, so it won't matter.

Second, here in Chiang Mai, and throughout the north and north east, where I have logged quite a few thousands of kilometers, I've seen probably 100 accidents, or more, over the years, and the results are always the same - Do a runner - No one bothers to help.

Third, in the US, and most civilized countries, we are raised to help those in need, as the humanitarian thing to do. Not sure where you're from, and don't really care, but perhaps you were raised differently.

Fourth, I wasn't "bashing Thai". I was commenting on things I have personally witnessed time and time again. So please don't try to fit me in the little square hole inside your mind, because it won't work.

So based on your anecdotal experience youre basically implying that Thais are uncivilized hypocrites, and their friendliness, kindness towards others and civility on the roads(lack of road rage, honking) amount to nothing.

You should know that 'civilized' countries like the US, UK, AUS have the highest rates of violence, not to mention gun homicides(US) compared to other 'civilized' countries.

Where's your evidence that no one stops for accidents considering the lack of road rage and honking in Thailand? - Are you serious, or just new to Thailand. I've been living here steadily for over 7 years, and coming here off and on for over 40, and not once have I seen a Thai stop to help anyone involved in an accident. Those involved to a runner 99% of the time, while witnesses and onlookers merely stare and gawk, but no one lifts a finger to help. I have a senior cop in the family, and a Thai lawyer for a neighbor, and both of them, along with every Thai family member I have (and there's quite of few of them), have told me the same thing - If involved in an accident, get away as fast as you can. If you see an accident, DO NOT stop and try to help. You'll either be blamed for it or sued. Kinda blows what you said out of the water, doesn't it?

And do those accidents you witnessed account for the totality of accidents throughout Thailand, or perhaps just a small percentage in a limited area(Pattaya, Phuket) based on anecdoctal evidence...

Ah, yes, the standard "bash the US" response.

And youre not bashing Thais?

But did you ever take the time to consider that those in the US, and most other civilized countries in the world, are taught a different set of moral and ethical standards? Or is that too much for you to comprehend?

What are these superior morals/ethical standards you speak of?

This reminds me of some videos I was watching on YouTube yesterday about car accidents. It was a compilation of car accidents in Russia, where the insurance laws require every car to have a dash cam. Some were funny, some were serious. But the one thing I noticed in about 95% percent of them is that people actually, stopped, and got out of their cars to inspect the damage in the minor ones. No yelling and screaming at others, no guns pulled and shooting the other guy, and in the serious accidents, people NOT involved, actually stopped to try and help.

Maybe you should search Russian road rage to get a more well rounded perspective.

Compare that to Thailand, where NO ONE dares stop, and everyone does a runner.

Where's your evidence that no one stops for accidents considering the lack of road rage and honking in Thailand?

Back in the US, I've stopped at a number of accidents scenes to try and help when I could, do to my background and training, and even managed to save a couple of lives. Never worried about being sued by anyone, and quietly accepted the thanks and gratitude I received from victims and family.

Again, compare that to Thailand.

Yes, because everyone knows the US is a non-litigious society and a bastion of upstanding Christian values.

ASUS has two models that are basically the same, the only difference is how they look. One has a gaming computer look while the other one has a business/high class look:

Gaming look -

ASUS ROG GL551JW-DS74 15.6-Inch IPS FHD Gaming Laptop, NVIDIA GTX960M

Business/high class look:

ASUS N550JK-CM531H 15.6-inch Full HD LED Notebook (Intel Core i7-4710HQ 2.50GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Windows 8.1)

I bought the second one (N551JK) with NVIDEA GeForce GTX 860M, Dual Quad Intel Core i7-4710HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz. It is awesome for gaming and has the business look that I need for my day job in aviation where I use my laptop at airline customer offices, etc. Check the specs on these and you will find the best cooling fan setup (I mean it blows the heat out and the keyboard stays cool), a solid state drive and 7200 rpm normal drive that add up to over 1 TB, backlit keyboard, 3.0 USB ports (3 of them) and on and on. I play games such as Call of Duty: Ghosts and many more and this machine does not hiccup, it flies. The cooling fans work wonderfully and was the final factor that made me buy it because heat always eats my laptops eventually in Thailand.

Hope this helps.

Where did you buy this?

If only the boyfriends, husbands or even fathers of the stupid numerous selfish female species that travel on the BTS, MRT or are in shopping malls could do the same as so many of these things often are on their smartphones, acting like they are so important yet blocking other people's path or blocking exits, escalators etc.

You should know that you have made a very sick and dangerous comment that is reportable to authorities who can easily obtain your IP address and whereabouts. How could you ever think your comment is appropriate let alone condone the actions of the man who killed his wife.

Where are the forum police when theyre needed?

There is a hotel named "Pling", go there.

Couldnt find this via Google, do you have a link?

Thanks for all the great suggestions. It sounds like best options are Sansara, Dong Tuan and Shangri-la. Of the 3, Sansara is a good 30-40mins away so only got quotes for the other 2 as follows:

Dong Tuan

1x guest entry - B300

membership:

1mo - 2000

3mo - 5000

6mo - 8500

12mo - 12000

Shangri-la

1x guest entry - B300

membership:

1mo - 3000

3mo - 20,000 (interesting rate jumps so high from 1mo)

6mo - ?

12mo - 29,000

Anyone confirm these rates?

Once again "Such negative views"

Please show me my 'such negative views'.

One more chance to redeem yourself, you said:

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

What was your point in making such a derisive comment if not to parrot the oft repeated deficiencies of the Thais and their govt?

If you can provide plausible explanation all is forgiven.

OP you've been a member here since the end of last month, I suspect you've not been in Thailand much longer.

Your habbit of making unfounded accusations and inability to appologise when clearly mistaken will ensure you have an eventful stay in Thailand and here on TV.

Please forgive my tardiness in offering you a welcome to Thailand and TVF.

I'm sure you're adventures in both are going to give us all some light relief.

But please do return the courtesy, don't do what so many others do when their saffron tinted sunglasses fall off and slip out without saying goodbye.

I suspect you and other farangs on TV who have such negative views of Thailand dont have much runway left in life, so for that your forgiven for not acknowledging the error of your ways.

If my time in Thailand ever reaches the point where I start wasting precious time whining about things that are out of my control, then finding greener pastures will be in order.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

So you have no evidence of me making direspectful or disparaging criticisms of Thais and now respond that you surmise from your interpretation of my 'tone' that my comments are full of contempt and the lack of any resl understanding about the state of a developing country.

In the light of a lack of evidence to back up your accusations you resort to your own misconceptions.

A gentleman would accept he's made a false accusation and appologise.

I'll leave that matter for to the board to judge.

But please do not lecture me on what is or is not 'edifying' whileever you're unable to man-up to your mistakes.

No apology from me, I stand by what i said. If you were attempting humor in that snippet then it was in very poor taste.

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

It's pretty clear your arrogant, know it all attitude distorts your view of Thailand. What you cant seem to grasp is that for all Thailand's faults, perceived or otherwise, you and many farangs are treated pretty damn well - much better than you deserve to be given your often disrespectful and disparaging criticisms of Thais.

Thailand is a developing country, which compared to other developing countries--even many eastern European ones, affords a quality of life that cant be beat when taking into account cost of living, hospitality of the people and mostly sunny weather. Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

Can you please clearly identify the disrespectful and disparaging criticism of Thais you accuse me of, or man-up and apologise.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

I would say tone of this statement is full of contempt and lacking any real understanding about the state of a developing country. How something like is considered 'edifying' by the forum police is beyond me.

Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

"The truth is that if it would solve its problems it could have the resources and infrastructure of the US. The US started out as nothing with European setters who had an entirely different culture including moral ethics and work ethics."

Please learn some history as your statement simply feeds into the ignorant American stereotype.

Read up on how early US industry was built on the backs of slave labor and the primary beneficiaries-- for generations to come, have been primarily white Americans while blacks have been disenfranchised.

"The OP is not here to learn, or even engage in reasonable and edifying debate. Rather he is here to lecture, while using disparaging remarks and false accusations..."

Yet you and other forum police conveniently turn a blind eye to all the thinly veiled racism and rude remarks made about the Thai people and their country.

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Ah... so it was an 'If you don't like it leave' thread all along.

As an observation: The quality of US Government Statistical Social Data is recognised throughout the world..... And, extremely reliable statistical tools are applied in US data to account for discrepancies arising from under-reporting and reporting errors.

As has been pointed out above; When the Thai statistical data for crime, accidents, deaths, health or any other social indicators hit the news as 'bad news', they, the statistics have a habit of suddenly and inexplicably improving.

There is no better example than the fatality/injury data around road accidents over Songkran, or the statistics on the use of illegal drugs.

Both of which have taken nose dives in the very year after a 'Government' announcement to solve the problem.

Anywhere else on the planet solving social problems takes decades - Thailand it happens overnight..... as if by the stroke of a magic eraser.

Of course the OP has been in Thailand 'long enough' to know this.

It's pretty clear your arrogant, know it all attitude distorts your view of Thailand. What you cant seem to grasp is that for all Thailand's faults, perceived or otherwise, you and many farangs are treated pretty damn well - much better than you deserve to be given your often disrespectful and disparaging criticisms of Thais.

Thailand is a developing country, which compared to other developing countries--even many eastern European ones, affords a quality of life that cant be beat when taking into account cost of living, hospitality of the people and mostly sunny weather. Of course if it had the resources and infrastructure of the US, many of it's problems would be solved but it doesn't - stop whining and deal with it.

"Long enough," huh?

Come back and post when you have been in LOS at least five years, have made unbiased observations along the way, and can make unbiased statements backing them.

"Random violence?" What difference does it make if violence is random or systematic?

Fact: Thailand has more gun deaths, per capita, than the US.

Fact: Thailand is number two in the world for the most traffic fatalities per capita, which, considering the manner in which many drive, would qualify as your "random violence."

Whether i said 5 or 10yrs is irrelevant considering your view that anyone living here that long can make unbiased observations. I have yet to see evidence to suggest that based on the plethora of biased posts from long time TV members.

Random vs systematic violence - really makes no difference one or the other except one doesnt expect random violence to happen with such frequency in a rich developed country vs a poor one barely emerging from 3rd world status.

Gun violence - why dont you look up stats for US compared to other developed countries and come back with your findings. Arguing that a developing country has worse gun violence than richest country in the world by 1% pt per capita is not very compelling argument.

Traffic fatalities - yes there are more in Thailand because it's still developing country. If it had the same level of enforcement and infrastructure as US, you and many retirees who benefit from low cost of living here would no longer be able to afford it.

Lastly, if you want to imply that traffic fatalities in Thailand are random acts of violence(which is a stretch of the imagination) then you should also contemplate the frequency of road rage and resulting acts of senseless violence in the US, UK and Australia which rarely if ever occurs in Thailand.

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Ah, I see. Thailand has an excuse for its violence because it is still developing.

Well, that certainly makes it safer.

As for the small difference in stats, like I mentioned in a subsequent post, while America's stats are pretty accurate, Thailand's desire to save Face causes her to go to great lengths to hide her crimes and accidents, so the actual number of gun deaths is higher than reported.

But if you feel unsafe in America, and safe in Thailand, enjoy! Regardless of "statistics," everyone lives in their own reality.

And by the way, there have been numerous incidents of road rage reported here on TV over the years. Even been a few incidents of "parking" rage, men beating up people, including women, for not moving their car so the men could drive by.

I think Thailand would generally be safer than the west, if it weren't for Face.

You and other farangs on this forum often like to make disparaging comments about saving face with very little understanding of its cultural significance.

Is under reporting of crime unique to Thailand? How many rapes and other acts of domestic violence w/guns or otherwise go unreported in the US? Given such high rates of occurrence, you can bet there is fair amount of under reporting of crimes in the US intentional or not.

Any road rage that youve heard about in Thailand pales in comparison to the frequency and severity that occurs in US/UK/Australia. If you find Thailand so much more dangerous than the US, why are you still here?

Looking for at least 25m pool with steam and/or sauna and gym in one location. Tried Rattilanna which has a nice pool but the gym is so dark feels like a night club and the sauna/steam rooms barely fit 3 people each.

Any recommendations?

If you want to move to another country, sure, your decision, go for it.

Using articles like in the link you posted, well, that could just as easily have been "Bored teenagers pick fight with and kill farang." Somchai, leader of the pack said "we didn't mean to kill him, we just wanted to have some fun."

Difference being those kinds of incidents(shootings) happen on a regular/frequent basis in the US.

Canada is closer than Thailand.

True but not much different culturally than the US and too much gray, rainy weather much of the year.

You obviously don't know much about Canada. Neighboring countries, but rather far apart culturally. Lived in both countries. USA violence 1000x that of Canada.

It also has a much smaller population than single state of California. Aside from Quebec, how are Canadians as a whole far apart culturally than the US?

"Long enough," huh?

Come back and post when you have been in LOS at least five years, have made unbiased observations along the way, and can make unbiased statements backing them.

"Random violence?" What difference does it make if violence is random or systematic?

Fact: Thailand has more gun deaths, per capita, than the US.

Fact: Thailand is number two in the world for the most traffic fatalities per capita, which, considering the manner in which many drive, would qualify as your "random violence."

Whether i said 5 or 10yrs is irrelevant considering your view that anyone living here that long can make unbiased observations. I have yet to see evidence to suggest that based on the plethora of biased posts from long time TV members.

Random vs systematic violence - really makes no difference one or the other except one doesnt expect random violence to happen with such frequency in a rich developed country vs a poor one barely emerging from 3rd world status.

Gun violence - why dont you look up stats for US compared to other developed countries and come back with your findings. Arguing that a developing country has worse gun violence than richest country in the world by 1% pt per capita is not very compelling argument.

Traffic fatalities - yes there are more in Thailand because it's still developing country. If it had the same level of enforcement and infrastructure as US, you and many retirees who benefit from low cost of living here would no longer be able to afford it.

Lastly, if you want to imply that traffic fatalities in Thailand are random acts of violence(which is a stretch of the imagination) then you should also contemplate the frequency of road rage and resulting acts of senseless violence in the US, UK and Australia which rarely if ever occurs in Thailand.

Bul@ %¥€t. Ok a shooting or a hit and run I could comprehend but this goes further than that. All you pseudo Thais can't see the woods for the trees.

Like the mother in the US who kills her children and stuffs them in the fridge? Or the aussie that ran over his neighbor because he didnt like what his neighbor said about his dog. How about the plethora of road rage incidents from US, UK, Australia found on youtube while there is less than a handful for Thailand?

Pseudo Thais...what are those?

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None of what you have cited here have to do with losing Face.

So what, why does that matter? Previous posters implied that nowhere else does such senseless violence occur and examples to the contrary were provided.

There are numerous incidents of extreme acts of violence in the west, particularly in the US, due to loss of face. It is often referred to as disrespect or humiliation, and more often than not, leads to similar if not more gruesome outcomes.

Look up mass shootings in US from recent years. Were those not motivated by some form of humiliation/loss of face by peers and further exacerbated by psychotic behavior? What about the mother/son who were recently gunned down in US for laughing at someone who had their foot sticking out the window -- isnt a result of loss of face?

Senseless violence can occur anywhere but to single out Thais/Thailand as somehow more conducive this behavior displays a blind ignorance of the violence that occurs in the west with much more frequency and severity.

I agree its hard to imagine this happening somewhere else. Taxi driver runs down cop, does a runner with his gun then murders some people who told him off for not showing the least bit of courtesy to his neighbours. Where else are people this idiotic and wreckless ? I'm married to a Thai so am not anti Thai but this does have Thainess all over it. Cue the pc brigade.....

Where are you from? I bet there is plenty to be found via google and youtube from your country that would be equal, if not worse, than what this cab driver did.

Bul@ %¥€t. Ok a shooting or a hit and run I could comprehend but this goes further than that. All you pseudo Thais can't see the woods for the trees.

Like the mother in the US who kills her children and stuffs them in the fridge? Or the aussie that ran over his neighbor because he didnt like what his neighbor said about his dog. How about the plethora of road rage incidents from US, UK, Australia found on youtube while there is less than a handful for Thailand?

Pseudo Thais...what are those?

Hmm,,,I've live in the US over 60 years, Philadelphia, Washington, DC area and now Wilmington, NC. I've not once been held up, shot at, or attacked...Maybe just lucky.

When I am in BKK, I try to shy away from the police trying to extort money form me when driving, riding in a taxi or walking the soi.

That's nice though your anecdotal experience doesnt disprove the high rates of violence documented in the US - particularly shootings.

You left the US to escape random violence and you chose Thailand ?

Yes, by and large much less of it here than in the US. I find Thais to be much more civil than many in the US where there are just too many with sense of entitlement and me, me, me attitude.

Out of curiosity, how long ago was it that you moved to Thailand from the US?

Long enough

I agree its hard to imagine this happening somewhere else. Taxi driver runs down cop, does a runner with his gun then murders some people who told him off for not showing the least bit of courtesy to his neighbours. Where else are people this idiotic and wreckless ? I'm married to a Thai so am not anti Thai but this does have Thainess all over it. Cue the pc brigade.....

Where are you from? I bet there is plenty to be found via google and youtube from your country that would be equal, if not worse, than what this cab driver did.