Groongthep

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

So it is a "fact" that human nature dictates we stick with our own kind huh? The many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world would seem to be at odds with that fact. It is probably better that you stick with your own kind though; whatever kind that is.

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

And whenever I feel the need of your advice regarding with whom I should associate with I'll let you know.

Sociology 101 - opposites DO NOT attract: almost all people marry people they look like, usually from their own street. Same the world over.

Reality 101 - In my workplace alone (an American company) I know of at least a dozen interracial marriages, white-black, white-east asian, hispanic-east asian, black-hispanic, white-hispanic and white-south asian. According to the Pew Research Center nearly one in seven new marriages in the U.S. is interracial or interethnic. link: Interracial marriages. According to official US census figures from the LAST census 6 and a half million Americans identified themselves as being of 2 or more races. That's about the same as 3 quarters of the population of London. link: US Census figures. These numbers also don't reflect the fact that the overwhelming number of mixed black and white individuals in America identify themselves as black only and not mixed. yogi100 says he believes there are only a handful of mixed marriages in London. That may be true but it particularly highlights how the different ethnic groups have not assimilated into British society nearly as well as they have in the US (and I would suspect Canada too.) I think yogi and panicandvomit need to expand their horizons a bit further.

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

So it is a "fact" that human nature dictates we stick with our own kind huh? The many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world would seem to be at odds with that fact. It is probably better that you stick with your own kind though; whatever kind that is.

And ฝรัง don't even merit the word คน, somewhere between the beasts and people,well below มนุษย์ !

Unfortunately yes, I too have on occasion heard the pronoun มัน and classifier ตัว used when referring to ฝรัง. Not often though, these words are usually used by angry bus and taxi drivers or shop owners and the like. Most polite Thai people wouldn't use them.

Bannork was not referring to those words, but rather to the fact that a ฝรัง is not referred to as คน. The fact is that ฝรัง is noun, pronoun and classifier - in the real world. If you walk into a shop to buy something, you are never called a ลูกค้า - as any Thai person would be - but just a ฝรัง. If you walk down the sidewalk and trying to pass, someone will invariably say "move aside because a ฝรัง is trying to pass by." It is the most curious thing about Thailand, really. (There are a few million Thais living in Europe and North America; imagine what would happen if there if the shop clerks regularly said, "hey, there's an Asian here" - or other cruder racial characterisations, that would be truer equivalents of ฝรัง. Heavy lawsuits, no doubt...)

I know from over 20 years of being in Thailand that this is not true.

And ฝรัง don't even merit the word คน, somewhere between the beasts and people,well below มนุษย์ !

Unfortunately yes, I too have on occasion heard the pronoun มัน and classifier ตัว used when referring to ฝรัง. Not often though, these words are usually used by angry bus and taxi drivers or shop owners and the like. Most polite Thai people wouldn't use them.

Bannork was not referring to those words, but rather to the fact that a ฝรัง is not referred to as คน. The fact is that ฝรัง is noun, pronoun and classifier - in the real world. If you walk into a shop to buy something, you are never called a ลูกค้า - as any Thai person would be - but just a ฝรัง. If you walk down the sidewalk and trying to pass, someone will invariably say "move aside because a ฝรัง is trying to pass by." It is the most curious thing about Thailand, really. (There are a few million Thais living in Europe and North America; imagine what would happen if there if the shop clerks regularly said, "hey, there's an Asian here" - or other cruder racial characterisations, that would be truer equivalents of ฝรัง. Heavy lawsuits, no doubt...)

Agree this holds true in many situations,especially with strangers, but the Thai people who know me refer to me as คุณ xxxx and use the classifier คน when talking about me or my friends and family. I think Bannork might hang out with a lot of other bannork.

And ฝรัง don't even merit the word คน, somewhere between the beasts and people,well below มนุษย์ !

Unfortunately yes, I too have on occasion heard the pronoun มัน and classifier ตัว used when referring to ฝรัง. Not often though, these words are usually used by angry bus and taxi drivers or shop owners and the like. Most polite Thai people wouldn't use them.

My best attempt is:

We must be better than animals (beasts) because we are people. We must be better than people because we are human beings.

I'm assuming that กี in the second phrase is a misprint and is meant to be ดี.

In Bangkok on Sukhumvit Soi 33/1 on the west side (33/1 is circular sort of like a cul-ta-sac) there is an oriental rug shop that has a sign in the window advertising rug and kilim cleaning. I've never used them so I can't give an opinion as to how good the service is.

เอ๊าะ is Northern (and maybe Northeastern) Thai for young and sexy, as in สาวเอ๊าะๆ--a fresh-faced, attractive, energetic, and obviously young girl/lady. I think it's also occasionally used and understood in the Central dialect.

I always assumed that เอ๊าะๆ referenced a decidedly underaged individual, not a child, but not yet an adult, more in that 13 to 16 age bracket.

I too have always understood เอ๊าะๆ to be used as Johpa describes; to refer to young adolecent girls. As for pronunciation, it sounds like the เกาะ as in เกาะเสม็ด (Koh Samet) or เกาะสมุย (Koh Samui) but without the ก ไก่ sound. Let's not get into why เกาะ is rendered "koh" in most english transcriptions as we have beat that subject to death. In American english it sounds something like raw as in uncooked but shorter and more emphatic. The ๆ symbol indicates it is reduplicated as well so what you get is aw!aw! (once again the aw sound being like raw as in uncooked but shorter and more emphatic). The only real way to hear this (these) word(s) spoken properly is to ask a native speaker to pronounce it for you.

"The man was in an extremely intoxicated state along Pattaya's Beach Road".

Isn't this a rather common occurance along beach road?

I can guarantee that all (99%) of Thai's abroad are not in support of red shirts.

I agree, but probably around 40%-60% do.

You agree with something, but then continue to go on and say he's over half wrong?

He said he guarantees that all Thais abroad are not red shirt supoorters. I agreed with him but qualified that from my experience somewhere around half of them do. What's so confusing about that?

What you are doing may not be illegal in Thailand but it certainly is unethical. Eventually, one of your "clients" is bound to cause you more trouble than you ever bargained for.

My bet is he really liked their burgers

Just adding to the great collective body of burger lore known as ThaiVisa

OK, I'm sold. Next time I'm near Thong Lor and craving a Burger I'll check it out.

I can guarantee that all (99%) of Thai's abroad are not in support of red shirts.

I agree, but probably around 40%-60% do. It's true that lots of elites escaped Thailand to find better business exploitation opportunities in the US but there is a very significant number of lower echelon Thais in America too. They tend to petition to bring their entire families over as well. I suggest you attend a local Thai wat in your area and ask a cross-section of the attendees about their feelings on the red-yellow issue. You'll learn that there are a lot more red shirt supporters out there than you think. There's also a startling number (of particularly young Thai-Americans) who have little or no knowledge of the conflict at all and who seem totally disinterested as they now consider the US their home and see Thailand as some far off back water of little consequence.

America appears to feel that Thailand and The Philippines, the traditional USA allies in the region, have backslid on human rights. Washington is developing relations with Indonesia, the world's fourth largest population and largest Muslim country, as the preeminent ally in SE Asia, giving America a stable ASEAN partner and helping to counterbalance China's increasing influence in the region. Indonesia has demonstrated substantial democracy and human rights growth, especially since 2004, and is key to regional security, particularly in the Malacca Strait, Gulf of Aden. On the heels of the military coup, in November 2006 at an APEC conference in Hanoi, Bush praised Indonesia and in the same breath pressed Thailand to restore democracy. Reaching out to Indonesia may have evolved because of human rights concerns and because Thailand has lost the strategic significance that existed when communism was taking a foothold. A National Security Report by the State Department on 27 May 2010 touted Obama's strategic SE Asian interests in Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam. Thailand did not get mentioned and may be conspicuously absent. Not only have there been political instability and human rights shortcomings, as evidenced in the predicted downgrade to the Tier II Watch List for Trafficking in Persons, America may feel that there has been a lack of substantive cooperation in curbing software, pharmaceutical, and entertainment piracy, and their displeasure over the failure to extradite Russian arms trader Viktor Bout caused them to file new charges in an attempt to gain Thai cooperation. Obama spent part of his childhood in Indonesia and, had the gulf oil spill crisis not occurred, he would have been there earlier this month to move his agenda forward.

yesdavy is correct and well informed on the state of US relations in SE Asia. Thailand has seriously diminished any credibility they may have once had and now even their government's legitimacy is in serious question. The country hasn't been of any real strategic interest since the Vietnam era and has now become just another 3rd rate little fiefdom of no real concern. Further, it is correct that the Congressional resolution that this whole thread is premised upon was of so little importance it wasn't even reported in any major US media source.

And of course you have data to support your claims of how many of the half million Thais/Thai-Americans living in the US support either the redshirts or the government?

You don't need a pole. Just get out and talk to a cross section of foreign Thais on your own and you can get a pretty accurate feel as to how many support who and what. Even if ALL the Thai Americans supported the elitists, which of course they don't, they would only total about fifteen percent of one percent of the entire US population. If you have any Thai-American friends you will see they can be broken down into pretty much 3 groups.

Group 1.) Those who are from Bangkok and vicinity and who are of at least upper middle income families or higher who support the present government and the status quo.

Group 2.) Those who hail from dtang jangwat and who distrust the army and support democracy and the red shirt movement.

Group 3.) Those from the second, third and even further back generations of Thai Americans who have now completely integrated into American society and who know very little if anything about what is going on in Thailand and don't seem to care much about it either.

The title of this thread being .."A Victory For Thailand In Washington" is pretty misleading. Neither the American public or it's government could care less about Thailand no matter who's in charge.

I would wager a half million (and more) would disagree with that

Whereas approximately 500,000 people of Thai descent live in the United States and foster strong cultural ties between the 2 countries

The US has a total population of about 320 million people. Simple arithmetic tells us 500,000 people of Thai decent comes out to around 0.15% (that's 15% of 1%)of the total population and of that tiny number a significant proportion of them support the Red Shirts and another significant portion (the younger ones) don't care one way or another. That leaves the percentage of Abhisit supporters so small that statistically it might as well be zero.

I therefore stand by my statement that neither the American public or it's government could care less about Thailand no matter who's in charge and that's the way it should be. It's none of our business. The Congress has said they favor reconciliation and a peaceful resolution to the conflict; and that's good enough.

U.S. Congress non-binding resolutions are a dime a dozen...usually at least a hundred issued every year. Basically a congressional resolution is a statement of position, has no legal authority, no force of law, etc.

Absolutely correct. The title of this thread being .."A Victory For Thailand In Washington" is pretty misleading. Neither the American public or it's government could care less about Thailand no matter who's in charge.

The people i ran into and mingled with on a daily basis were becoming agressive in their very nature , it seemed they had no time to give you either whilst eating or shopping , the soap on TV was more important than refilling your coffee cup , the chair the sales person occupied , too comfortable to leave and assist a mere customer , ignoring customers and not fullfilling thier needs is the quickest and most positive way to lose them , I hate to be ignored when I am here to help ensure YOUR livelyhood . I am not alone in my picture of Thai people that they display with a very wide brush .

What you have described here unfortunately is not that the people began to hate you but rather that they began to see you as just another regular person and hence no longer special and deserving of special treatment. They began to see you like they see everyone else who is not their relative. Look around in Thai shops and restaurants and you'll see that unless they appear to be rich big shots they don't treat other Thais any better than they treat long term foreigners.

I didn't think you could get kow soi in Bangkok, will definitely give taht place a try. Been looking for a place that has it forever. Thanks. Probably my favorite Thai food

All S&P Restaurants (like the one at Pantip in Pratunam) have it. Also, the 5th Ave. food court at MBK. Neither as good as Chiang Mai but still not bad.

Today I was just looking at some apartments and the lady showing me said it had a large ห้องรับแขก. I took her telling me that to mean it had a special room where "you received people of Indic origins", lol. I'd only heard of a living room in spoken thai as being a ห้องนั่งเล่น the "room where you sit and play".

I have alway understood ห้องรับแขก to mean living room and ห้องนั่งเล่น to mean what Americans would call the family room or den.

...the airport heist December 2008 has lasting damage that will go on for decades. Westerners do NOT forget.

Another rant and another apology for interrupting it with reality. See graph above. It was forgotten in less than a year.

You should learn to read your own graph before accusing others. As indicated by the arrow representing the time of the tsunami the dates at the bottom represent the end of that year (i.e. the tsunami was 6 days before the end of 2004). Therefore, burgdawg is correct according to your graph (which comes without any reference to where the figures came from by the way) that arrivals DID decrease after November 2008.

A military state, step-by-step, day-by-day, drip-by-drip

Some might say that the government showed amazing (and excessive) restraint and tolerance (or was obliged to do so as a result of lack of police and military willingness to carry out government policy) during the period leading up to the height of the Red Shirt crisis, and is now a bit gun shy about letting known threats to public safety re-emerge...

...If you're one of those who feels widespread civil unrest is imminent, would you really expect the government to be relaxing its guard right now?

Truer words never spoken. The "protesters" got greedy for power, turned down a reasonable peace deal, burned down buildings all over the country and shot themselves in the foot. The PM is justified in keeping them from creating more anarchy and destroying the country - however he has to do it.

King George and the British royalists were probably saying the same thing about the American colonies in the late 1700's.

SIMs are available in the arrival hall.

I should have known that. Thanks.

The only way to perhaps prevent a reoccurrence of last May’s mayhem is to hold fair and transparent elections and for all sides to agree to abide by the results, but even that doesn’t guarantee anything. If the Puea Thai Party gets enough votes to form the next government, which is very likely, we will probably see the PAD back on the streets causing trouble and maybe closing down the airport once again. Unfortunately it doesn’t look too good that the great political divide among Thai citizens is going to narrow anytime soon.

I'll be traveling to Singapore next week and will be on a tight schedule with little time to waste. I would like to buy a Singtel (or other Singaporean brand SIM card) before I leave Bangkok to save me some time. Does anyone know if there is a place in Bangkok where I might be able to purchase one?