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lostboy
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This topic is not about sex offenders. it is about public bathrooms.
What a crock, indeed.
The thread title is, 'US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access".
That very real and rational fear is primarily about women and young girls being assaulted by sex offenders.
Your continued attempts to minimize and evade the question about the percentage of sex offenders who have ever cross dressed or ever "identitifed" as a tranny makes me even more sure that this is hitting close to the mark.
You have what authority to demand that I answer any question? Absolutely none. Your continued harping on the issue of sexual offenders is nothing to do with Transgender us of toilets. The fear that you cite as the opportunity to spread your hate and bigotry is entirely your own. It does not justify turning this topic into a litany of anecdotes about male sexual offenders.
LGBT people are not perverts. LGBT people are not deviants. Your continued insinuations of this is base, shameful and disgraceful.
Those of us who take this topic seriously and there are more of them than the frat boy jokers who have posted, reject your immature conflation of men in dressers and perverts with LGBT people.
Do your own damn research. You will find that your scenario does not exist. In this case, I will assume that you will continue to post off topic videos and links on sexual offences to manufacture such connections. As the moderator has observed. You can't fix stupid.
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The thread title mentions "fear over transgender bathroom access".
One of those fears is that an innocent woman or young girl being sexually assaulted by a tranny in the ladies bathroom or girls' locker room.
I've asked this question several times, but interestingly have not yet received an answer. Maybe the reason it's not being answered is because it's hitting too close to the mark. But I'll ask it again:
What percentage of sex offenders have ever engaged in cross dressing or have ever "identified" as transgender"?
I would think that it's not an insignificant number. I also think this is a legitimate question that needs to be answered before we allow every Tom, Dick and tranny to enter a girls' locker room or a ladies' bathroom.
Your premise is wrong
we are not concerned with transgender people sexually assaulting young girls or boys in the bathrooms.
We are concerned that a system set to accommodate Transgender people will be abused by non Transgender people.
Consider the following
according to statistics transgender people constitute .3% of the population. The vast majority of this .3% being legitimate. If there are any that present a danger, they are such a small percentage of a small percentage that they present a statistically insignificant danger.
That leaves the remaining 99.7% that would also have have access and be able to game the system. That's where the danger is.
Public buildings are constructed using pubic funds and should be accessed by all the 'public' irrespective of their identity or what proportion of the population that minority comprises. I do not argue against your point of focussing attention on where risks of sexual offences may lie but your focus on the smallness of the minority I believe is not relevant to the issue of using public facilities.
Furthermore, public facilities require management and administration by some public authority, even if it is as simple as hiring cleaners and providing basic maintenance. It is the responsibility of the authority that manages a facility to address any and all issues related to the operation of the facility, access to the facility and anything else that relates to that facility. I recall similar furores over handicapped access to public facilities including bathrooms/toilets in the 80's. Now it is accepted that there are ramps and purpose built facilities for physically handicapped people.
How can authorities manage this problem? Certainly not by letting the issue of sexual predation by males drive the agenda. As with most things, these issues can be managed by information, inclusivity and understanding. Non Unisex facilities could have signs posted that provide access for trans people but also provide some mechanism for people uncomfortable with this to avoid the situation. Maybe hotlines or information services or other initiatives to raise awareness can be used. I posted earlier statistics that demonstrate that when people learn about transgender people and issues they are more accepting of their needs. I am not an expert in facilities management but I know that people have that expertise to ensure that public facilities are managed in a way that does not discriminate against any member of the public. The concept of equal protection is surely apolitical.
On the off topic issue of sexual predation, there are also many strategies that law enforcement, public policy officials and mental health experts can use to deal with this. The hysteria over a non-existent scenario of real Trans people using bathroom access for sexual assault is merely to promote hysteria and bigotry. It just does not happen when real Trans people are concerned. Sensible people know how to approach public policy issues in ways that do not discriminate or promote hate.
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The thread title mentions "fear over transgender bathroom access".
One of those fears is that an innocent woman or young girl being sexually assaulted by a tranny in the ladies bathroom or girls' locker room.
I've asked this question several times, but interestingly have not yet received an answer. Maybe the reason it's not being answered is because it's hitting too close to the mark. But I'll ask it again:
What percentage of sex offenders have ever engaged in cross dressing or have ever "identified" as transgender"?
I would think that it's not an insignificant number. I also think this is a legitimate question that needs to be answered before we allow every Tom, Dick and tranny to enter a girls' locker room or a ladies' bathroom.
This topic is not about sex offenders. it is about public bathrooms. This topic is not about showers. it is about public bathrooms.
Evidence and data has been provided on the issue of transgenderism.
This hate speech is absolutely shameful. You don't like LGBT people clearly. To the extent that you won't let them take a piss in peace? What a crock.
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This VDO, posted twice now, is a collection of police reports of the arrest of sex offenders. It is compiled by a hate group to inflame emotions and sentiments against trans people and their right to dignity. Most of the offenders are not trans gender and the incidents involving transgender people are misrepresented. The supporters of the tactics employed by this VDO to promote hate and violence against trans people ask us to assume that all trans people are rapists. I wonder why religious bigots feel that immoral behaviour is acceptable to their Diety? Since their Diety absolves them of sins they commit in its name, I guess they feel they can do anything.
One thing is perfectly clear. The Republicans should have a separate restroom.
http://jesusnorepublican.org/+Reasonable/gopimmorality.html
Republicans involved in sexual misconduct:
Senators and Representatives, Jon Hinson, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, Newt Gingrich, Dennis Hasert, Bob Livingston, John Ensign, Mark Sanford, David Vitter, Mark Foley, Philip Giordano, ,Bob Packwood, William Janklow, Scott DesJarlais, Bob Barr, Bill Thomas, Dan Burton, Charles Candy, Dick Army, John Peterson, JC Watts, John Schmitz, Don Sherwood, Srom Thurmond, Don Lukens, Ken Calvert, Randy Cunningham, Jim Bun, Ed Schrock, Vito Fossela, Chip Pickering, Dan Crane, Gerry Studds, Robert Burman, Michale Duval, Mike Browers, Andrew Buhr, Neil Bush, Roy Cohn, Carey Lee, Lewis Libby,..
What an idiotic post.
Here are a few from the other side of the aisle...
Brock Adams - Democrat WA SenSam Adams - Democrat OR MayJim Bates - Democrat CA RepGary Becker - Democrat WI MayRod Blagojevich - Democrat IL GovBill Clinton - Democrat PrsdntGary Condit - Democrat CA RepMarc Dann - Democrat OK AgnRoosevelt Dobbins - Democrat AK RepJohn Edwards - Democrat NC SenSteven Effman - Democrat FL RepSilvio Failla - Democrat NJ AsmBarney Frank - Democrat MA RepKerry Gauthier - Democrat MN RepDavid Giles - Democrat WA RepGary Hart - Democrat CO SenWayne Hays - Democrat OH RepGordon Hintz - Democrat WI RepAllan Howe - Democrat UT RepDaniel Inouye - Democrat HI RepTed Kennedy - Democrat MA SenKwame Kilpatrick - Democrat MI MayVito J. Lopez - Democrat NJ AsmRobert L. Leggit - Democrat CA RepTim Mahoney - Democrat IL RepEric Massa - Democrat NY RepJim McGreevey - Democrat NJ GovWilbur Mills - Democrat AK RepPaul Morrison - Democrat AK AgnGavin Newsom - Democrat CA MayDavid Patterson - Democrat NY GovPaul Patton - Democrat KY GovMel Reynolds - Democrat IL RepFred Richmond - Democrat NY RepCharles Robb - Democrat VA RepGus Savage - Democrat IL RepHarold Scott - Democrat MI RepDerrick Sheperd - Democrat LA SenEliot Spitzer - Democrat NY GovGerald Springer - Democrat OH MayGerry Studds - Democrat MA RepAntonio Villaraigosa - Democrat CA May - LA MayorSol Wachtler - Democrat NY JudAnthony Weiner - Democrat NY RepBob Wise - Democrat WV GovDavid Wu - Democrat Or RepJohn Young - Democrat TX RepI don't think any of these on both the Right or the Left are Trans.
Kind of puts Arjunadawn's post in its place.
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Since there is nothing at all in the OP about boys and girls showering together, then I do believe that you are OFF TOPIC. The topic is about trans people using toilets. A small number of marginalised bigots have tried to hijack the topic by using incendiary propaganda that distorts facts and data. This suggestion by the ladyboy that you say is 'pivotal to the thread' is entirely unrelated to the OP. It was introduced by one of these inflammatory posts to inflame hatred.
If people want to use these types of discussions to let off some frat boy steam and what they consider as humour, that's one thing. Easily ignored. But purposeful incitement of hatred against minorities is something far more shameful.
Bathroom Access For Transgender Teen Divides Town
Post Number 39.
Since the post has been up for a few days one can assume it has been ruled on topic as the title of the vid indicates. Watching the video you will notice a reference to showering together is central to the issue. It is obvious anyway as the whole point is not to make the TG people feel odd or left out and showering alone would do that.
If the topic is, "US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access" then a utube titled, " Bathroom Access For Transgender Teen Divides Town " would certainly be on topic.
Public toilets are constructed to provide 'convenience' to people who need to exercise a normal bodily function. Medical experts say that holding in bodily waste. I have never seen any public convenience offering showering facilities. These facilities are provided at certain public institutions but are managed differently from public bathrooms. I think most people would acknowledge that a public bathroom generally refers to a public toilet and not a public showering facility.
Conflating male and females showing together in shower facilities in public institutions with removal of bodily waste for sanitary and health reasons is designed to do one thing - scaremonger. Inflame hatred. Bash a minority. it is also off topic to the OP which does not mention showering at all. Not anywhere. Feel free to read it again and again. Referencing a VDO that conflates the two issues in a purposeful attempt to spread bigotry being allowed to remain on the thread so consequently being ruled on topic is supporting the tactics of bigotry.
How showers and changing rooms are managed in public institutions is a subject worthy of debate in terms of LGBT dignity but using it to argue against a Trans person using a pubic toilet, restroom, bathroom, convenient, wash room, WC, kazi, loo, bog, dunny or whatever you want to call it perpetuates the hate and plays on people's fears of non-conformity.
Of course, if I didn't take your post at face value, I could assume that you know all this and you just wanted to contribute to the incitement.
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Here we go. It's already started:
A Seattle, Wash. community is in uproar after a man undressed in the women’s locker room at a local pool, seemingly to test a new rule that allows transgender people to use the bathroom of their gender identity, according to King 5 News.
An unidentified man wearing board shorts walked into the women’s bathroom of Evans Pool, in the heart of Seattle, on Monday evening.
The women inside the locker room at the time attempted to kick him out, but the guy refused and said “the law has changed and I have the right to be here.”
That's all it takes. Some guy wearing a dress saying " Today I identify as a woman" and he can stroll into the showers of a girls locker room or a ladies' bathroom.
"Identity Politics"
It would almost be funny if so many women and young girls weren't needlessly being put at risk of being sexually assaulted.
Since you are clearly spending an inordinate amount of time and energy exercising your fingers on google bingo to support your hate speech, you might consider posting something that is on topic. Or you just keep on throwing any type of mud that your searches find and hope some of it sticks.
Who would have thought you have now found your mission in life to track male sex offenders. Enjoy.
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Gender identity and sexual orientation are NOT the same thing.
Duh.
For example a male to female transgender can be attracted to women, men, both, or nobody.
What does it matter what the orientation is of a person going to the TOILET?
Where does the bigotry end?
This is clearly explained by the American Psychological Association http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx. Sexual Orientation is who you are attracted to. Gender Identify is who you are.
However as a result of the Culture Wars, gender identity is now associated with sexual orientation. Otherwise there would be no T in LGBT.
GLBT and variations is just about an ALLIANCE between different minority groups that are minorities because of something to do with sexual or gender identification.
Use of that term does NOT signify that GENDER and ORIENTATION are the SAME thing.
It's largely a POLITICAL alliance.
I agree with you and I am sorry if you thought I was saying otherwise. The political alliance was and is instrumental in raising the understanding of non LGBT people about the issues and the right to dignity. Early in the development of the alliance I recall reading a lot of intense discussion about the acronym and the alliance.
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Gender identity and sexual orientation are NOT the same thing.
Duh.
For example a male to female transgender can be attracted to women, men, both, or nobody.
What does it matter what the orientation is of a person going to the TOILET?
Where does the bigotry end?
This is clearly explained by the American Psychological Association http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx. Sexual Orientation is who you are attracted to. Gender Identify is who you are.
However as a result of the Culture Wars, gender identity is now associated with sexual orientation. Otherwise there would be no T in LGBT.
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Taken from the OP:
said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality. "They're going to claim trans people are sexual predatorsWell, I'm not claiming that all trannies are sexual predators, but it would be interesting to know what percentage of sexual offenders have this transgender fetish as their primary psychological sexual disorder.
As the moderator has pointed out, you can't fix stupid.
Transgenderism is not a fetish. LGBT do not have a disorder. To say this is to promote hate and bigotry. Evidence has been provided to disprove these shameful allegations.
Reposting VDO's and previously posted comments demonstrates an intellectual bankruptcy that closely follows a clear moral bankruptcy.
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Stats show, no trans person has ever been arrested for sexual misconduct in a public bathroom in the U.S..
Sure.
Tell that to all the women who were assaulted by trannies in ladies' bathrooms and locker rooms.
This VDO, posted twice now, is a collection of police reports of the arrest of sex offenders. It is compiled by a hate group to inflame emotions and sentiments against trans people and their right to dignity. Most of the offenders are not trans gender and the incidents involving transgender people are misrepresented. The supporters of the tactics employed by this VDO to promote hate and violence against trans people ask us to assume that all trans people are rapists. I wonder why religious bigots feel that immoral behaviour is acceptable to their Diety? Since their Diety absolves them of sins they commit in its name, I guess they feel they can do anything.
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The arguments against transgendered people using women's toilets are based on ignorance and fear... and some stupidity or just bullying.
Women and little girls are not likely to be molested or attacked by transgendered people.. Its HETEROSEXUAL men that do these evil things. A pervert heterosexual man who is determined to attack and molest women in public toilets will find a way to get in.. with or without wearing a dress/!!!
As for people saying they don't want their little girls to see a man peeing.... that is not going to happen is it if you think about it? In a female toilets there are no urinals.. people go into PRIVATE STALLS AND SHUT THE DOOR.
And its normal for people to actually pull up their pants and fasten their jeans / skirt BEFORE they leave the stall, right?
The argument that transgendered people are in the minority so its not worth spending money on separate toilets is also flawed. Disabled people have their own toilets.. they are in the minority... and would anyone suggest their little girl does not want to see disabled people using the restroom? Will you tell them to wait till they get home?
Quite frankly, most mens public toilets are disgusting... most heterosexual men are not know for their cleanliness. Maybe its an animal thing, like a dog peeing up trees.. and the smell in there is like a zoo.
I can understand why most transgendered people would not want to go in there to freshen up and put on some make up!
And what about heterosexual men attacking or molesting transgendered women who use their toilets? Its very dangerous situation if there are a few drunk men in there and they see a attractive female in there on her own.
Gay men have to use the male toilets... and they don't go around molesting the straight men.
Until ignorant people can change their views the idea answer is to have either unisex toilets or a restroom specially for transgendered people.
And finally, I can never understand why a man wearing a dress brings out such feelings of disgust, fear and hatred. Its just a dress or skirt.. its only fabric.. its not a Nazi uniform. Women these days dress very much like men.. with jeans or shorts.. but no one gets upset about that calling them perverts.
" Women these days dress very much like men.. with jeans or shorts.. but no one gets upset about that calling them perverts. "
I agree, there is no requirement for gender specific dress, as it should be,
so if transgender individuals are allowed to use the bathroom of their choice, how does one determine if the person going in the bathroom is indeed a transgender or a heterosexual who wants , for what ever reason, to use the bathroom of the opposite sex??
So far no one in this long thread has satisfactory answered this question .
If this concern can be satisfactory addressed, I would have no problem with transgender people using the bathroom of their choice.
No skin of my nose if .3% of the population is allowed to use the bathroom of their choice, it is the other 99.7% I am worried about.
Taking your concern at face value, what you ask is probably impossible. Most of us were raised in an environment and culture that places responsibility for behaviour on the individual and consequently there is a presumption of innocence for people against whom charges are laid. Except of course for minorities. Blacks are assumed to be thugs. Women assumed to be weak and defenceless. LGBT people assumed to be perverts. So to provide you with comfort on the issue that you raise about the probity of a trans persons claim to be transgender would mean assuming that a person is automatically lying and is required to demonstrate their innocence. I do not think that this is a proper way to organise a society.
I have posted a link to the American Psychological Association on expert, evidence based conclusions on the relationship between sexual orientation and gender identity if you do not understand the issue of transgenderism. If that is not your issue, then you may want to review information from experts including police in those places where religious bigotry laws are in place ostensibly to 'protect' women in bathrooms. Overwhelmingly they demonstrated that this is a non issue. The things that the LGBT haters are claiming are not happening.http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533
It matters not to me the numbers of transgender people who are at risk of discrimination and frequently of outright violence. How a society treats the most disadvantaged of its people is a reflection of that society's morality. Religious Bigotry Laws attempts to codify discriminatory behaviour against some of the most disadvantaged people in society.
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Are you inventing posters to respond to because all of the Thai Visa posters are on your ignore list? Who are you accusing of using bad language? I see no posts linked to yours? Are you trying to start an argument with a fictitious person that you made up? Slur words against minority groups, such as the N word, etc. are NOT OK here.The examples of sickeningly extremist anti-GLBT BIGOTRY are bad enough here, we see it daily, but you would think people could be civil enough to avoid hateful SLUR words and phrases.
I'm trying to understand to whom you are posting to but cannot.
Are you off topic?
Personally, I hate peeing into a urinal stood next to another man, so more often than not I use the cubicle. Why should women have more cubicles in their restroom's than mens? As for transgender people the risk of being abused or beaten is enough to get me protesting if it were me in this position. As for name calling, this is starting to improve. The n word has decreased a lot since Obama got elected, maybe we do need a transgender president to change people's opinion. Thailand has a transgender politician Yollada Suanyot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yollada_Suanyot
Off topic? I don't know. I think that fellow Jingthing has made up a poster who uses bad language and has chosen to try and misdirect the thread into another area because the thought of boys and girls showering together in high school (suggested by a ladyboy pivotal to this thread) might be a losing battle even on Thai Visa.
Personally I like to be massaged while at a urinal - a service available at many bars in Thailand for a slight fee so I would not care whom was next to me or behind me as long as the charge was reasonable.
Most of the massage people are men for the men's room. Ladyboys would be OK for me but many have expressed concerns about pickpockets.
I don't think they offer a similar service in ladies rooms because few ladies use urinals. However if the ladyboys could use ladies rooms on a regular basis maybe things would change and ladies rooms would be equipped with urinals as well as cubicles thereby saving space and cost of new restroom construction.
Since there is nothing at all in the OP about boys and girls showering together, then I do believe that you are OFF TOPIC. The topic is about trans people using toilets. A small number of marginalised bigots have tried to hijack the topic by using incendiary propaganda that distorts facts and data. This suggestion by the ladyboy that you say is 'pivotal to the thread' is entirely unrelated to the OP. It was introduced by one of these inflammatory posts to inflame hatred.
If people want to use these types of discussions to let off some frat boy steam and what they consider as humour, that's one thing. Easily ignored. But purposeful incitement of hatred against minorities is something far more shameful.
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Of course allowing trannies to enter ladies' rooms and girls' locker rooms is dangerous. There have been many links posted on this thread that show the very real danger. Some will continue to downplay these horrific incidents or just flat-out ignore them. But they happened. They happened to women and young girls. They happened in ladies' rooms and girls' locker rooms. And in the incidents listed above, the perpetrators all had one thing in common: they were guys wearing dresses. This ill conceived sociology experiment is needlessly risky and dangerous.
I put the safety of women and children as a higher priority than the convenience of a guy wearing a dress. And looking at all of the legislation being introduced across the US, it's a growing concern.
Oh please. Defender of the purity of women in the toilet. You have some credentials on this apart from 2 links to newspaper reports of non Trans people committing violence and two off topic VDO's. You stand the wall of protecting women from taking a poop in a stall next to a Trans person. Sure. Whatever.
The current spate of laws to allow religious bigotry and discrimination against LGBT people is a last ditch attempt to revive the Culture War that was lost when SCOTUS endorsed Constitutional protections for marriage equality. The toilet hysteria is a mere tactic in this desperation. Transgender use of female toilets does not put women and girls at risk. Your bigoted, inflammatory remarks about Trannies and Men in Dresses has nothing to do with Trans people. Your attempts to demonstrate that Trans people are rapists have come to nought. Links to evidence based conclusions about the relationship between sexual orientation and gender identity have been ignored. All to the purpose of bashing LGBT people.
Now we end up with the Super Hero defense! What a crock. There is no growing concern about women's toilets except among the fringe who want legal protections for their bigotry and discrimination. These laws will disappear as people vote with their dollars. They will be challenged and overturned on Equal Protection grounds, as was the stupid anti-gay marriage movement. We get it. You don't like LGBT people. Deal with it. Or stay within your circle of old men preying on dark skinned girls in Thailand. Or don't they count in your world view? Never been to a girlie bar then, Oh Great Defender of the Purity of Women? Just add hypocrisy to your bigotry.
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Common sense is spreading across the Carolinas.
A South Carolina senator wants to bar local governments from requiring businesses to let transgender people use the bathroom of their choice, saying he's taking a "stand for decency and common sense."
The bill introduced Wednesday by Sen. Lee Bright would also require multistall bathrooms on public property to be designated and used "based on biological sex."
It specifically includes student bathrooms, locker rooms and shower rooms in public schools.
And to be clear, I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating for discrimination against trannies, but rather it's about dangerous, risky behavior.
This common sense legislation is about the behavior, not the people.
Trans people using toilet facilities is not risky behaviour, except in places like North Carolina, Kansas and Mississippi now.
Appropriate responses to the bigotry, discrimination and marginalisation of LGBT people in those states that have passed religious bigotry laws. American Airlines, IBM, Pay Pal http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/gay-rights-rally-set-lawmakers-overturn-charlotte-act-37890502 and http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/gay-rights-mississippi-north-carolina.html?_r=0
Real common sense in the Carolinas.
Lots more links to similar reports.
Rational, tolerant and caring people support LGBT human rights and equality. With their dollars.
And to be clear, the use of the word Trannie is hate speech. It is part of the bigot's consistent efforts to trivialise, dehumanise and excoriate LGBT people. LGTB people own this word and do not allow you use this slur. That is Identity Politics, not your denial of biological reality.
I can see that the link to the American Psychological Association information on sexual orientation and gender identity went unsurprisingly ignored in favour of continued LGBT bashing.
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Sexual Assault Victims Speak Out Against Washington’s Transgender Bathroom Policies
This ill conceived sociology experiment is needlessly putting women and children at risk.
Your little exercises in google bingo are for what purpose? You are attempting to prove that all Trans people are rapists? Your trivialisation of this issue and attempt to diminish the dignity and human rights of a minority is shameful. Demonstrate that all Trans people are rapists or stop this hysteria that puts the physical safety of a minority at risk.
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Does anyone doubt that sexual assaults in ladies' bathrooms and girls' locker rooms will increase if guys wearing dresses are legally allowed to enter?
I don't.
And if you're honest, neither do you.
The guys in dresses can either use the men's room or hold it until they get home.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Your hysteria contributes to the climate of fear and bigotry that puts Trans people at physical risk. It is shameful.
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So you're a man who likes to wear a dress. Seems strange to me (and quite frankly, sad), but hey good for you. But when you try to enter ladies' rooms or girls locker rooms, that behavior is unacceptable.
It's not the person but the behavior that needs to addressed with legislation. It's far too risky for women and young girls to be thrown into this social experiment.
The video just a few posts above shows countless incidents of men wearing dressed who entered ladies' rooms and girls' locker rooms and then went on to sexually assault, rape and attack innocent young girls and women. Some here don't seem to have a problem with that. They haven't even referenced the video. As if the facts don't even exist.
As it is being presented here, "identity" is nothing more than a transitory (no pun intended) feeling.
There are bathrooms for biological men and bathrooms for biological women. If you're a man wearing a dress and you feel ashamed to enter a men's bathroom, then I guess you're just going to have to hold it until you get home.
How quickly you retreat from your position when someone pushes back on your baseless, non-credible and frankly ignorant claims. Retreating back into now actual hate speech. You seek to shame me by accusing me of being a trans person? To what end? Think that calling someone a Trans person will make them put their tail between their legs an run off. These are the tactics of the school yard bully. These re the tactics that are promoted by the Reactionaries. Calling someone a sissy for not throwing or catching some bit of leather correctly; picking out the non conformist and harassing them. These are the tactics condoned by those who promote these Religious Liberty laws believing that God allows them to discriminate against anyone they think is unworthy of their self appointed standards.
So keep up your attempts to bully. Descending so quickly into actual hate speech is a blindingly obvious indicator of the lack of substance of your position. Clearly you have not benefited from following the link provided on the relationship between Transgenderism and biology. Instead you continue to refer to propaganda design to inflame and incite hatred. Your 2nd VDO offering was reviewed, referenced and rejected for cause. You may refer to earlier posts if you missed this.
What more do you have to offer? Your silly 'men in dresses' meme was tired even before you used it the first time. You choose to ignore scientific research into the issue. You just continue your dogmatic reactionary view on who should enter mens and womens toilets like it is one of the Ten Commandments. Again, why are you so invested in this issue. Raising the issue of performing bodily functions to the level of discriminatory hate speech against entire minorities? Was your potty training that traumatic?
People who are centred, rational and reasonable about the needs of minorities, people with challenges, non conformists must continue to speak out and push back against bigotry and ignorance. It is precisely these attitudes that jeopardises minorities. These attitudes endorse violent responses against minorities who demand respect for their diversity. Here is a list of unlawfully killed Trans people from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people. Are you proud of yourself now? You want to add gay and lesbians to this list as well because there are a lot of them. Being accused of wearing a dress is nothing to being a part of this shame.
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Taken from the OP:
allowing transgender people to use public bathrooms based on their gender identity would expose women and girls to discomfort and possible molestation.This is obvious and only the most obtuse would disagree. Of course women and girls are going to experience discomfort if some guy wearing a dress comes into a public bathroom. Of course these same women and girls are going to be at increased risk of molestation.
And let's be clear, the NC law doesn't discriminate against any person or group. It discriminates against the behavior of a man wearing a dress entering a women's bathroom.
It's also worth reminding some people that "identity" doesn't trump biology. A man is man. Even if he's wearing a dress.
I see we are no longer talking about showering with teenage girls. Some progress at least I guess.
Rejecting your alarmism is far from obtuse. You misquote the OP. You present assumption as fact. No amount of silly propagandising by the bigots and those seeking to trivialise or diminish a minority, for whatever selfish reason, can justify discrimination against any group. The spate of laws in the US are very clear. They are designed to legitimise discrimination on the basis of a person's religious beliefs against minorities. These laws restrict access to public and private services for minorities and allows for these minorities to be denied employment opportunities. And lets be clear, this is the case for those minorities who do not decide to wear women's dresses.
Wrapping bigotry in the cloak of pseudo-science is a favoured tactic of the culture warrior. On what basis do you claim that identity trumps biology? Is this something that you just made up? You have no evidence on the number of women and girls who would be discomforted by a Trans person using their toilet facilities and you have similarly no evidence to support your declaration that identity is not based on biology. Are you one of those nuts who contend that being gay is a 'lifestyle choice'? You do not allow for LGBT people to develop Identity based on their biology? On what basis do you make this claim? Your extensive scientific credentials or your old man reactionary crap about not wanting to deal with non-conformists?
Your continued promotion of the idea that LGBT people are rapists and perverts is abhorrent. Nothing obtuse about this. It is a blatant and shameful attack wrapped up in a puerile, silly wannabe meme about men in dresses.
"There is increasing evidence of a biological basis for gender identity" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150213112317.htm You think Trans people choose this? You think it is some game in the Culture Wars to rebel against Mummy and Daddy? LGBT people identify as LGBT people because of biology. That is why the Religious Right needs its laws to discriminate against them. They won't stop being LGBT people just because you don't like it. Let,s be clear about that.
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Have to agree with the poster who says "it's still a guy in a dress".
Sometimes I see katoeys, that are clearly NOT pulling the illusion off, the 7/11 cashier katoey up the street from me has Richard Nixon type five o'clock shadow.
I'm tolerant I don't care, to each their own, but I wouldn't want that guy showering with my 15 year old daughter in a high school lockerroom, no way.
I have re-read the OP. Nowhere in that article was there any mention of showering with 8 or 14 year olds. This was interjected into the discussion by a hysterical, reactionary who posted a link to one case of a trans teen and the difficulties in satisfying the need for access to locker rooms. That has nothing to do with the OP, yet it is being used as an incendiary and inflammatory scare tactic. Its effectiveness is demonstrated by the fact that you have fallen for it. You say that you are tolerant, yet you exercise intolerance based on lack of or purposeful ignorance of information. The OP is about public bathroom/toilet access for trans people. It is further about the alarming trend of right wing activists to overturn ordinances designed to protect LGBT people. LGBT people have been marginalised, shamed and in some cases physically brutalised for their natural state of being. Ordinances providing protection for their physical and emotional security are being repealed in a blatantly bigoted effort to enshrine prejudice based on religious belief into law.
This is not the 60's or 70's when the local footy club guys don women's clothes for a knees-up fund raiser. Those times are thankfully gone. This is a situation where real people face real, dangerous and sometimes damaging prejudice.
The OP said that the Director of the project to raise awareness has stated that most people don't know any Trans people. That is why, in earlier posts, my response to the ignorant reactionaries is to go talk to a Trans person. The OP further states that "it [study] found that 35 percent of likely voters know or work with a transgender person, twice as many as two years ago." When people know or work with a Trans person, they are much more aware of the situation and much less likely to accuse such people of silly fantasy perversions like toilet rape and other such nonsense. If you don't know any Trans person, or more likely you know of a number of katoey but you are probably unable or unwilling to have a conversation in Thai with them, then watch any of the excellent dramatic presentations about this. The brilliant Felicity Huffman in the 2005 movie 'Transamerica' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407265/. The acclaimed and award winning actor Jeffrey Tambor in the TV series 'Transparent' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3502262/
I make no excuses about my own uncomfortableness with Trans people. It is something I have to work on. Not because what I do or say impacts on any individual Trans person but as a part of being able to practice what I preach about respecting diversity. This is part of tolerance. You say you are tolerant and you actively argue the liberal side on the political threads. Perhaps re-read the OP and not get diverted by the stupid, juvenile tactics of the reactionary old men worried about their dongle being exposed in the bathroom and then re-read what you have written. If this was a discussion about showering with teenage girls, then I would be saying entirely different things but since that is OFF TOPIC, then I stand by my words on the matter.
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Le Pen is basically a Nazi, and he should have his freedom of speech taken away.
The man incites racial hatred with a whole load of his comments.
My word, it didn't take long before one of the forum reactionaries came along invoking Godwin's law. Le Pen, for good reason, is a patriot and attempts to defend the traditional French way of life. By that I am referring to jovial portly men with unkempt facial hair wearing breton shirts while riding a bicycle carrying a string of garlic around his neck and smoking gitanes. This is his ideal rather than the intolerant niqab wearing haters that try to change France to a sharia hellhole. Le Pen recognizes that his ancestors and forefathers incredible bravery repeatedly fighting off and beating the invading muslims, and the superiority of the Christian based culture Le Pen cares about French people, and his daughter is the countries most popular politician.
Godwin's law is not actually a law. It is a rhetorical device that is often used by the pseudo-intellectual to shut down dissent or the voices of those who would not be expected to rise to the standards of Professor Godwin. It could be argued that raising the issue of Nazism is apropos of a discussion on holocaust denial.
Modern French culture, which is inclusive of Muslims and other nationalities needs no defence, particularly from a stereotype that excludes most of the French population. You believe Le Pen's ancestors are those Franks who stopped the Muslim army at the Battle of Tours in the 8th Century? I can't think of any other reference that fits since mid Century France has been dealing with the consequences of its imperial opportunism in muslim countries in North Africa. The Franks were Christian, I will grant you that, but they weren't French. France would not exist for some time. I also do not believe that victory in one battle can be seen as demonstrating the 'superiority' of any one faith over another.
The time is nearly passed for old reactionaries. The new generation has better ideas about how to respect diversity and reject the traditional oppression of the formerly dominant white, male culture. Most people only speak about such things on forums like this because they know that these reactionary views are incendiary and rightly becoming unacceptable in proper society. it is only the thick-neck, low brow oafs like Le Pen who utter these things in public.
If his daughter was the most popular politician in France, then she would be President. She isn't. She is relegated to the margins which is still too high a profile for most people. As the old reactionaries die out, her support will dwindle until she is cast into the dust bin of history beside her father where they both belong.
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An awful lot of ad hominem name calling there, but without a doubt the best phrase in the entire post was "Identity Politics".
Identity Politics: The pseudo-ideology of the pathologically narcissistic.
Anyway, you do realize it's a guy wearing a dress, don't you? If not, let me explain it to you as simply as I can: It's a guy wearing a dress. That guy can define himself however he wants, but he's still a guy in a dress. What does it say on his birth certificate? What does it say on his driver's license? His passport? That's enough "definition" for me or anyone else who's thinking clearly.
Now as far as I'm concerned this guy in the dress can wear that dress whenever and wherever he wants. But wearing that dress doesn't magically not make him a guy, and it doesn't give him permission to enter the ladies room or a girls' locker room.
Again did you even read the thread? Or do you always just come in half cocked (no pun intended) and post irrelevant and incongruous statements? A link was posted by a rape victim who spoke out about the inherent dangers of this nonsense.
Nice try, but I don't hate that guy in the dress. I just don't believe he should be allowed in the ladies bathroom or a high school girls' locker room. You seem to be fine with it. Good for you.
Once again, I don't believe you've even read the posts on this thread. I've posted at least twice that if they guy in the dress were to chop off his genitals then I would be inclined to agree that he's really " a woman trapped in a man's body". But as long as he has male genitalia, he's just a guy in a dress.
By the way, you seem to have completely glossed over the fact that the guy in the dress who wants to enter the girls' locker room turned down the option of having his own private room to shower and change. How convenient for you and your "identity politics".
I see you cannot defend your position without using bigotry and false equivalency. The link you posted to the Trans teen and the locker room situation is entirely unrelated to the topic of Trans people using public restrooms. You may be pleased as punch that you found this link and you posted it and believe that this supports your position. Good on you.
Calling out a bigot for bigotry is not ad hominem. If you don't want to be referred by such names, then stop saying such stupid, bigoted things. Since you are so dismissive of minorities I wish you joy in your straight, white, male privilege. Clearly nothing will penetrate that neanderthal like skull to promote respect and tolerance for diversity. Stay on the wrong side of cultural and social progress and continue being a boor and using boorish slurs. It makes entirely no difference to me. Go talk to a Trans person. Go read the autobiography of a Trans person. Until you demonstrate you can talk about something else than potty humour, you really don't have much to contribute.
You live in a world shaped by Identity Politics. Not comprehending the world around you is the essence of narcissism. You may continue to believe that your opinions have meaning on this issue but you continue to violate Rule #1 and so are doomed to remain marginalised. Like I said, if you don't like being called out as a bigot, then don't use bigoted speech. Simple really. Again, go talk to a Trans person and see if you have the capacity to understand what they tell you about their lives.k Or not. Most centred, rational people don't get so worked up about bodily functions like you and your little crowd of Manhood Defenders or Penis Worshippers or whatever out of date, redundant, selfish ideology that you hold.
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Trans people have to relieve themselves. Trans females use women's restrooms which are fitted with individual stalls mostly with locks. Who started the diversion about school locker rooms? Just a way to use the fear mongering Huckerbee tried but ended up making himself look like the pervert he is.
First of all, feel free to call it what you like, but it's just a guy in a dress. Secondly, you're really going to call those locks? Do you think those "locks" are going to deter a pervert intent on committing a sexual assault? Thirdly, there are several videos posted on this thread about some guy in a dress who wants to use the girls' locker room at his high school. When asked about the 15 and 16 year old girls who felt uncomfortable with this guy using their locker room, he said he didn't believe that they were really uncomfortable but were really just being discriminatory. And to top it off, he was offered his own private locker room, and he turned it down.
Thank you for your sequenced response to my post.
First (and this is not the start of a list) rule of Identity Politics is that you do not get to define the minority that you seek to oppress. The minority defines itself. It takes ownership of language and words that has been used to excoriate and revels in it. If you don't believe me, go to any African American and use the N word. Observe what happens when athletes and public officials use the F word for LGBT people.
You came out of the gate on this thread furiously, throwing around your opinions on trans people and promoting your view on what they should or should not be doing. Sorry to tell you but violating the first rule of Identify Politics immediately marginalises you. A few fellow old grumpy reactionaries with potty training issues joined your side, but to any thinking person, your language immediately defined you as a non serious player in this issue and someone to be ignored until you turn into a troll and wander off.
You associate Trans people with Cross Dressers. You compound such ignorance by associating if not conflating the word pervert with both identities. These identities are not interchangeable. Neither are they perversions.
You then move from the sublime to the ridiculous. Countering my statement on toilet stall locks with some fantasy about toilet rape. Like I said, marginalised and turning into a troll. You seriously offer this to any critical thinker on this issue?
You cap all this off by your insistence that the case of a teenage trans refusing to compromise on locker room usage definitively supports your position. No. Dealing with school aged trans kids is entirely different and requires far more sensitivity than you or your troglodyte mates have with your calls for suspension and expulsion. It has practically nothing to do with the issue of Trans people using public restrooms except to engender hate and hysteria instead of reasoned reflection and consideration. You may continue running around hysterically about the presumption of a teenage Trans kid. Others will move on with their lives.
Why are you and the handful of other old men in Thailand so invested in this issue? Spare us the crap about your 8 year old grandchildren or your unwillingness to have someone ogle at what is left of your manhood. What is it that drives you and the others to irrational hatred against a minority? I think my observations about that other posters psycho-sexuality may be accurate. Is the decision of a Trans person to remove their male genitalia so threatening to your peace of mind or to you concept of manhood? I am a member of a minority. I too had grown up with significant prejudice against Trans people which was a reflection of my culture and my place in time. Living in Thailand has forced me to confront this issue. It does not matter how many Trans people there are. One poster believes that because their numbers are small that they don't deserve to be treated like human beings with equality and tolerance.
Can you defend your position without resorting to bigotry or false equivalency? Or will you continue to evolve into a troll and wander away at some point when the thread dies?
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Oh, good Lord. We've got another one that joined today.
I will admit chuckd, that while some of your more obnoxiously loudmouthed fellow travellers (a couple of usernames come to mind I am always sure) are conspicuous by their absence on these threads today, you are still in there fighting. Of course, the usual fireworks are missing, like the damp squib above, but I would applaud you for standing by your convictions. You will of course say that this is meaningless to you but I wanted to make this observation.
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The original proposal was a TAX ... not sure if Trump has expanded that into confiscation or the media did.
Trump fanboys coming out of the woodwork to spin their idol's words. So many of them beavering away, so eager to interpret the Diety's wisdom for we unbelievers.
Trump's original proposal was to have Mexico pay for the wall through the trade deficit. But of course, he couldn't actually explain any mechanism to achieve this. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/jan/26/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-course-mexico-can-pay-wall-becau/
So we get the acolytes interpreting the tea leaves for us. Backwards policy making. Trump announces a policy through some brain fart in public and his fan boys scurry around to try and make reality fit the fantasy. Here's one guy who is part of this fly-by-night policy crowd http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/031716/3-ways-donald-trump-can-make-mexico-pay-wall.asp
America may deserve Trump. The rest of the world does not. Make America White Again.
Slur words 
US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access
in World News
Posted
The conflation of sexual assault with the Trans use of bathrooms is clearly a scare tactic. The real reason behind these laws is not the protection of women and children but to maintain the 'non right' of religious people to discriminate against LGBT people in denying employment and public and private services. Since such concepts of 'religious liberty' are rejected by most people, especially the next generation of Millenials, the anti LGBT people have to use deceit and fear to push their intolerance.
"A sexual assault survivor and long-time advocate for other victims of sexual assault has explained exactly why anti-LGBT "bathroom bills" that cast transgender people as sexual predators do nothing to help victims of sexual assault" http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/28/a-sexual-assault-survivor-explains-the-hypocris/209572
Experts in 12 states -- including law enforcement officials, government employees, and advocates for victims of sexual assault -- have debunked the right-wing myth that sexual predators will exploit transgender non-discrimination laws to sneak into women's restrooms, calling the myth baseless and "beyond specious." http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533
Playing on people's fears. Intellectual and moral bankruptcy.