JackThompson

1 hour ago, Oldie said:

I could imagine that many people without much future in Western countries would try to move here. You can sleep outside because here is no cold weather and you can eat cheap street food and in the end you can survive on a very low budget. No great life but perhaps still better than in the home country. 

Low budget is relative - multiples of an average Thai salary should be fine (I suggest 30K) - though less as foreign-sourced income would still be a net-benefit to the country.

As to those "sleeping outside" - enforce vagrancy laws - deport and ban those who cannot show they have a place to live / rent-paid.

45 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Folks with respectable jobs in the West get 2-4 weeks holiday per year max. That's the kind that spends 100 of $s a day on vacation eating and drinking and being merry (and doing a bunch of stuff they really shouldn't). And then they leave. They don't hang around for months.

Many folks with "respectable jobs" today Work Remotely.  That's the kind that could spend continuously into the Thai economy.  Why would it be adventageous for them to leave and stop spending here?

47 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Thailand has zero need in the meantime to let in a bunch of cut-price losers who'll spend $10 a day on board and lodging and another 15 on stuff to sniff.

Anyone who gets involved in drugs here is an idiot - very harsh laws - and would be banned for life. 

$300/mo (~9300 Baht) is more than many Thais earn (far more than the Cambodians and Burmese let in by the thousands), but I do agree that the qualifying income should be more like 30K Baht per-mo - easy to prove by showing foreign-transfers of that amount or greater.

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

But the biggest issue is uncontrolled movement into the country.  What country in its right mind would allow such a thing.  I know that the UK/US/Australia/NZ would not and it would be madness and unacceptable if it did.

The USA has done this - no enforcement of the laws against employing illegal aliens, for example - illegal for the cops to even "inquire" about one's "immigration-status" in many areas.

But this is not the issue here, because those entering en-masse are from nations where the min-wage (if existent) is a fraction of that in the "UK/US/Australia/NZ" - AND we have social-welfare systems to exploit.

What is proposed is the inverse - those from higher-wage nations into Thailand, which has no welfare-system for foreigners what so ever.

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

the current mess of bureaucracy that is Thai Immigration employs a lot of people, plus the hanger-on agents. I don't think they would relish being told to go back to the rice fields.

That's not where most came from - and they "bought" their jobs for a pile of cash, in anticipation of "brown envelope money" payouts.  

It is those who lost work in the tourist-related industries who mostly came from the rice-fields - and are furious at immigration for destroying their opportunities (since pre-covid).

No need to fire IOs, as they could process many new extensions, based on new, sane rules.  The problem is how to deal with their lost-expectations of "above-salary" agent-laundered income. 

4 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

Just like your own country does, eh? 

No, we primarily let in those who make our citizens poorer.  No one is suggesting Thailand offer welfare and enact anti-native discrimination policies, like our nations have. 

Sadly, Thailand-Immigration/Elites have duplicated the "Bring in foreign workers to undermine locals job-opportunities" policy, already.

4 hours ago, Hi Tea said:

Why do you suggest that only citizens of "developed" countries should qualify, do they spend a different type of not-as-valuable currency?

They tend to Have Money to spend, is why.  Others who can demonstrate income should also be welcome, of course.  But if the min-wage in your passport-country is multiples of the Thai min-wage, that is a relevant factor.

4 hours ago, Pravda said:

This is why western economies should stop doling out state pensions for anyone living in Thailand for more than 6 months. Why should western taxpayers support old men sponsoring Isaan families? I fully support pension freeze like Britain is doing and wish Canada did the same thing. 

Because they paid into those "state pensions" for a lifetime, and EARNED that money.

4 hours ago, Pravda said:

I don't give a flying f about Thailand economy. 

I do - and Thai Immigration policy should be based on helping Thais - not stuffing brown-enevelopes (as is).

5 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

And when you think of these people, with debts mounting and future uncertain, would they really want to splash on a vacation at the other end of the World, quarantine or not, with 12+ hours of flying and mingling with thousands of people at the airports, risking infecting themselves on the way, and being left with possibly excruciatingly expensive treatment in another country? Probably not.

As more jobs become remote, they might consider moving some where "nice but less expensive" to live, while they continue work for a foreign company.  Thailand could open up to these folks, and create tens of thousands + jobs for Thais. 

The rule to stay here should be simple - prove 30K Baht foreign-income / mo.  That is a many times a Thai average salary - and each foreigner spending that into the economy would directly support several Thai jobs.  

Add 5K/year for the permitted-stay/visa, which should include catastrophic health-insurance (stabilize and re-patriate only - not long-term treatment). 

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

the sections of society that the Bangkok elites have never liked to think about.

And they still don't - which is why what you are suggesting will never be on the radar - though I generally agree with what you propose.  Sadly, only tourists who are taken to shop at "connected" businesses, are given consideration. 

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

Even pre-Covid, the junta had been happily chipping away at that pillar

Immigration did this - not the current-govt specifically.  The "crackdowns"  started during the Thaksin days.  When the general took power, he actually told Immigration to lighten-up a bit on Visa-Exempt restrictions.

Immigration resents foreigners here on corruption-free MFA-issed Visas, who did not pay them brown-envelope money.  In response, they wrecked thousands of Thai businesses with "crackdowns" on tourists, just to greedily claw-in just a little bit more.  The countless Thais negatively affected by blocking foreign-customers, and by Immigration's "L-Visas," issued to replace them (for lower wages) at remaining jobs, are not considered.

If you marry a Thai, and experience what Immigration puts you though to stay and support them, you will fully-realize how little Immigration care about their own citizens.  Immigration's world is entirely-focused on agent-laundered money.  The xenophobia-bit (why they are rude - especially to a Thai wife) is just the cover, and way to help the lower-level IOs to justify what they are ordered to do.

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

may depend on not having those parts of Thai society collapse and spark upheaval throughout the rest. 

You would think they would have that foresight - would encourage MORE foreigners to come here and spend foreign-capital in Thai businesses, to create more opportunities for Thais to have a path to economic-success - the best defense against unrest and communist-appeals.  It's much less trouble/expense than trying to force-down angry throngs.  Sadly, it appears they do not see this - likely listening to advice from the ChiComms.

4 hours ago, Daddylonglegs said:

At the time the officer recommended applying for non-B instead and my school went along with that. They pay someone to handle the paperwork for non-Bs for the other teachers anyway so it was no big deal for them. So, after exiting the country and coming back in on a 30-day tourist visa

It's illegal to work on a TR entry or w/o a Work-Permit, but many schools don't care if their teachers end up jailed, deported, and banned-for-life for illegally-working - just 'replace' those who are busted.  You have a Thai family (as do I), so this has a lot more weight.

If the school wanted you to go with a Non-B extension, they should have provided the paperwork to get Non-B visa from a Thai Consulate, which would have made the next step MUCH easier, and put you on a legal-path. 

As stated above, you can get a 60-Day based on Thai family (no financials involved), then apply for a Non-O 90-Day based on your Thai-Salary or Non-B based on teaching, extendable for a year. 

But a "Change of Visa Type" from a TR to 90-Day Non-B "in country" generally involves a pile of money to an "immigration-law firm" (most of the money passed to the IOs) - to spite being 100% legal, and should be available for 2000 Baht.  

The work-permit process is mixed up in this, also - you cannot get a WP while on an "employment prohibited" permitted-stay (TR-type).  Usually, you would get a "work-permit approval" letter from Labor, use that to "go out for a Non-B Visa" from a consulate - which is impossible now.  Hopefully, you will be able to use that Labor letter with Immigration to get your extension - Non-B or Non-O. 

The paperwork varies by office, so get Nonthaburi's list now, and provide to your school.  Note that you would likely be pretending to be a "new hire" - as you cannot show income-tax-payments for Illegal income, nor tell immigration you are working illegally.  The school should not have to provide any more documentation for a Non-O-Family based than they would for a Non-B, and possibly less.

7 minutes ago, aidenai said:

On 9/5/2020 at 6:46 PM, dmarc028 said:

The problem is none of us can convert our visa amnesty to a non immigrant B visa.

According to the current provisions, you can't apply for a non-immigrant B visa (teaching) when on amnesty.

Per the cabinet's ruling, whatever permitted-stay you had when the covid-auto-extension began, was "automatically extended" until Sept 26. 

Unless you use one of the "law firms" that partner with IOs to provide this service (and this is not cheap) yes, cannot move to a Non-B. 

But there is nothing in Immigration Law which requires "Go Out for a New Visa" - was just the workaround to the corruption.  The law allows changing from one non-imm extension reason to another, or doing a "change of visa status" from TR entries in-country.

1 hour ago, problemfarang said:

well im not a teacher but working. I have work permit and non-o 1 year visa. I did my visa extension via agency because of IO's mistake and being stubborn. 

 

I dont know why you said illegal by the law. If you have the right visa.. then should not be a problem. if you dont have the right visa or qualifications, then its amnesty or not your doing it wrong from the beginning. 

If you are here on a Non-O for Thai Family, you are legally allowed to work, and can get a WP from the labor-dept based on that.  That is my status also - my Non-O family permitted-stay having been "auto extended" until Sept 26. 

There was some issue at Labor for new and renewed WPs, for those whose stays on "work-allowed" permitted-stays had become "auto-extended."  I am not sure if/how that was resolved.   If this goes on long enough, I will find out next year when WP renewal time arrives. 

I will continue embassy-letter-extending until the land-borders open, because Immigration created "new requirements" to block my legit 1-year non-o extension.

18 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

Interesting that the actual announcement says nothing about amnesty ending or the need to prepare to leave or anything remotely like that.

There was never an "amnesty" - we got automatic-extensions of our existing permitted-stays through (eventually) Sept 26. 

They have already announced one can get 30-day extensions of these with a letter from your embassy.  Just the letter and some landlord-docs (depending on the office).  That seems to be the "what's next" option. 

If one cannot get an embassy-letter (USA is automatic, others want "reasons"), and do not want to return to your passport-country, then next step is to check here (and similar sites) for options:

https://travelbans.org/
https://www.traveloffpath.com/countries-reopening-their-borders-for-tourism-the-complete-list/
https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions

15 hours ago, spiekerjozef said:

Wasn't Richard ending as well ?

The agents (district-level) who "investigated" his work/jobsite for 3 hours told him he would likely be denied - but his 1-year was approved.

2 hours ago, Jackcwba said:

I’m in such a tricky situation. I am waiting to start work in November/ January at the latest. I have a job offer from a BOI company and I can’t get the non B while inside Thailand - have to get it from outside - all surrounding countries have compulsory quarentine or a complete ban on foreigners entering.

See if you can get your BOI company to do the process through the "regular" (non-BOI) labor-office and regular Immigration.  If they have more than 4 Thais per-foreigner, it should be possible. 

You would get a "work permit acceptance letter" from labor, as the starting point. 

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flying to uk and back here with flights and paying for quarentine will cost me roughly 80,000 baht all in.

Normally, Immigration want a PILE of Payoff-Money to do a Non-B 90-day in-country, to spite it being 100% legal.  Usually, you would "go out for a Non-B Visa" to avoid this payoff, but that is obviously not practical, now. 

Unless they have made things easier via Covid (I haven't seen reports of this), you are likely to need one of Immigration's "law firm" partners to launder the payoff.

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and before any Thai visa experts claim you can get it at changwattana - no you can’t. CW does not deal with boi companies at all its all done through chamchuri square and even to this day the rules haven’t changed. Get the visa from an outside embassy.

Others have done it.  I got my WP through the regular labor-office for a BOI company.  The only catch is, your company has to qualify under the "normal" rules - not just the BOI rules.  If they don't hire enough Thais per-capita, then you can't use CW or the "normal" Labor Office. 

I would also check if the "law firms" can do the same thing with BOI, that they do with CW.  It is true they won't do the initial Non-B "normally" (i.e. w/o a big payoff).  Keep in mind, this "rule" is not a "law" - just invented to force payoffs.

DO Expect them to demand a TON of paperwork about your company at CW, though - so best if they get 2 copies of everything, with receipts for each, that they use for the Work-Permit.  BOI requires less paperwork.

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...

im just hoping I can stay here until things die down a bit and I can fly out locally somewhere to Vietnam in the near future and get my non B and hopefully all this compulsory quarentine is over or atleast I don’t have to pay 50-70K baht to be in quarentine or I can just do it at my own apartment.

If you can get an embassy-letter, that buys you until late November - maybe longer, if you can get a 2nd one. 

Schools here are notorious for not providing the necessary paperwork to get teachers on the correct visas with work-permits.  Pre-covid (for years), they were sent to get Tourist-Visas at Vientiane, repeatedly. 

When I commented on some threads, saying teachers should refuse to work w/o a work-permit, etc - I was told "Then you won't be hired."  Evidently, this is because schools have to pay off immigration, like many other businesses do, so want to make sure you will be "sticking around," before shelling out the cash.

If it were me, I would not set foot on the job w/o a work-permit - or at LEAST w work-permit approval-letter showing you are "in process of getting legal," which can be used to start the immigration process, so you can THEN get your WP. 

The immigation-process usually begins with a Non-B 90-Day stamp.  Pre-Covid, the huge payoff through "law firms" to get a this stamp "in country" was often avoided, by sending out an employee for a Non-B Visa from a Thai-consulate.    Now, that is impossible, so not sure what schools will do, unless Immigration offers a discounted "no-receipt-fee" for "in-country" Non-B 90-day stamps.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You seemed to say that the the allowing people to use a statement from an overseas account would solve the problem, and then in a later post indicated that the financials weren't really an issue for most people. I'm just trying to follow along.

An overseas-statement would solve the problem for many.

Financials - or, rather, they way they qualify them - is just ONE way Immigration blocks legit applications.

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Again, in 18 years I had no issues with my work permit or visa, and I worked for a BOI registered company the whole time. And again, since I retired I have been on the marriage visa I have had no issues. 

As I said before, most who drive-drunk make it home safely - but that doesn't make it right.  I am one of the many who have reported (on this forum) being "run over" multiple-times by Immigration's Corruption.  Most of the victims never post here.  It is widespread.

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So when you said: "The solution would be to allow us to use a foreign bank/brokerage/etc statement w/ 400K equivalent or AVERAGE mo foreign-income proof of 40K+ (no monthly bank-deposit bull), like we can at the MFA's Consulate in Penang, where financials are required. "  you were just making that up?

Why "making up"?   Making up what?  Those are the rules at the Thai-consulate in Penang and, yes, Immigration following the same rules would solve the issue for many. 

Just following their own existing-rules, rather than constantly changing them to block legit-applications, would be a huge step-up.

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I've been perusing the site a while, an it seems that far and away, most people that use the funds deposited method do not have any problem getting their visas approved.

Then you missed the MANY "landlord docs" denial-reports.  But the income-method is law, so why should it be a problem?  They are only "cracking down" to squeeze corruption-money from more "good guys" who don't (or did not previously) use agents.

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Why would the BOI have to approve your work permit? I set up and managed a BOI registered company using an office manager I hired from Man-Power. While we did hire an attorney but it was not "huge money" nor was is some sort of BOI ""lawyer" partners"

If you used the BOI system, you know they provide BOTH the work-permit AND the permitted-stay as a package.  Unlike the regular labor-dept, who provide ONLY the work-permit, Immigration is involved in the BOI process, so have (predictably) corrupted it. 

I had no problem getting a work permit from the Labor Dept, but was later blocked from a permitted-stay at immigration due to "new-rules", combined with covid making meeting those "new rules" impossible. 

Quote

I still do not see what rights I am missing that would stop me from moving a portion of my savings from a US account to a Thai account given the time, effort, grief and money it saves me. 

Total loss of it, in case of a financial or political "event" in Thailand.  No "grief" etc, if could use a foreign bank-statement, or they would allow "average" income, or "non-pension" incomes, per their existing rules.

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Perhaps they believe it's too easy to falsify the documents. It is easy for them to substantiate money deposited in a Thai bank, foreign banks not so much. 

 

I think it worth noting that as I understand it, the issue stems from people lying to get income statements from their consulates. Another case a a few cheaters ruining it for everyone else.

There is not ONE CASE reported of a faked-income letter, which would have seen the violator do prison-time here and when he got home.  I am sure it would have been top-news here, if it ever happened.  

As to faked bank-account statements - the MFA has no problem with this.  Providing false-info to Immigration (or the MFA) would be a serious legal charge, and a few who got jail time in Thailand in the news, would serve as a sufficient deterrent. 

But, if either of those were really valid concerns, Immigration would not provide VIP Treatment for "bad guys" who fake the financials with their agent-partners.  Immigration's agent-partners flash the money in/out of your account in less than a day, obtaining a "balance letter" in-between, then all money-seasoning checking is magically skipped.   This status-quo is proof that Immigration do not care AT ALL if you "really qualify" - and their "concerns" about "fraud" are really just ruses to force agent-payoffs from legit-applicants.

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If one is going to live in a county, what is wrong with moving some of one's money to that county? 

That depends - do you have "rights" in that country?  Or you just get "temporary permission" year-on-year to stay one more year. 

Is there any sane reason to believe, if there were a financial-shock here, that foreigners-money in banks would be safe?  In my passport-country, I have rights - and we would get paid-out, or there would be a civil-war.

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It reminds me of people that cant afford $1,000 a month for an apartment, so they rent a room for $400 a week.

Yes, I've seen this with the poor on buying food-products in tiny increments, while I tend to buy bulk for far less, because I have the "slack".  But that's not the point, here. 

People have what they have, and if they have 40K/mo, it should be accepted.  The Thai-wife won't stay married to a bum, and there is no foreigner-welfare here, so that is the real "test" - not immigration's agent-schemes.

33 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What does any of that have to do with saving money?

It means putting savings into a Thai account (where you have no rights), won't stop IOs blocking your application - They Have Other Ways.  Most of my blocked-applications were not due the financials.

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I am not saying it doesn't happen, but I had a work permit for 18 years and I've been on a marriage visa since I retired and I have not suffered any of the issues you describe.  I have never used an agent and I have never had to bribe anyone at immigration. 

Most applicants don't fall into the "agent-only" categories, and most drunk-drivers drive home safely from the bar.  It's the other ones, where the nightmares happen.

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If you have a work permit why do you need a family visa?

I am married to a Thai.  With my initial Non-O-Family applications, I did not work here - had a business overseas.  I switched to working here to have income which immigration would except as "valid," and to get into the SSO Medical system for the long-term.  At this point:

• BOI would not process my application because I entered on a Non-O, without huge money to their "lawyer" partners.  This is similar with normal immigration, where the "must go out for a B-Visa" scam is designed to force agent-use.  There is no legal reason they cannot do any Non-Imm Extension-reason on any Non-Imm entry.
• One can get a work-permit legally on a Non-O permitted-stay, and then ones permitted-stay is not tied to one's job.  So, no "need to leave by midnight if the job ends" or "apply for 7-days" routine.   Also, if you ever want to go for PR or Citizenship, a "go out for a new visa" due to a job-change starts the required 3 years of "continuous extensions" over, again.

42 minutes ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

... I'm comfortable month by month forever but lump sums are hard for me unless I remove my month by month injection which would be financially stupid of me to do so. ...

The solution would be to allow us to use a foreign bank/brokerage/etc statement w/ 400K equivalent or AVERAGE mo foreign-income proof of 40K+ (no monthly bank-deposit bull), like we can at the MFA's Consulate in Penang, where financials are required. 

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If one is currently living comfortably it seems it would not be that difficult to save B400K in a few years and eliminate all the heartache, bother and additional expense of make visa runs.

I have only been blocked on the financials once - but not due to it being insufficient.  That time was due to the source of my more-than-adequate and proven income not being a "state pension." 

Other ways they block non-agent-money (~15x list-price + participation in a crime) extensions for those with Thai family, include unobtanium "landlord docs," or even "re-prove your work permit and more" docs (added recently at CW).  Others have reported these and other issues. 

It's not like retirement, where only the local-honchos are involved.  Thai-family extensions have a "divison level" IO, who is trying to maximize the number of agent-application "signing bonuses" (~10K Baht just for him) he pockets.  Thai-Family basically doubles the corruption you must deal with.

I don't care about "dual pricing" - but "Thai only days," where Thais can visit THEIR heritage-sites and parks w/o hordes of foreigners (pre-covid) For FREE would be even better.  Just raise the entry-free for non-Thai days to cover Thai's costs, entirely.

But the "expat-card" is a good idea, regardless.  The PI has had similar for years, distributed by their Immigration (who are helpful and friendly, because there is a "no fixers" policy there).   It provides a form of ID, and could replace the "must have your passport" back-and-forth (no, just a copy - "but the law says" - etc)

Those of us who have no interest in maintaining a vehicle in a place like Bangkok would prefer an easy-to-obtain card - not the often-nightmare bull for a "pink ID" from amphoes (difficulty varies by amphoe) OR the pita of a DL.

3 hours ago, hobz said:

The real 'conspiracy' is that covid19 is not actually dangerous and that the cure (lockdowns, shutdowns etc) are worse than the disease. 

 

Average age of people dying from covid-19 in sweden is 82. Average life expectancy in sweden is 82.

Only 6% of people dying from covid in sweden didn't have underlying medical issues as cause of death.

Sweden had no lockdown and no masks etc.

 

The entire world is seriously overreacting to this thing. It was understandable in the early days when we didn't know, but now we know.

 

Also, imagine if we put as much effort into preventing the regular flu every year. Or road deaths.. 

The same was found when the USA-CDC "revised" it's COVID numbers - 94% had TWO co-morbidities, and the vast majority of cases of very advanced-age. 

Recent studies showing "asymptomatic spread" to be virtually non-existent, have put that theory in the trash-bin, also.

This is much less dangerous than flu (which kills many small-children every year), except to a small percentage of the population, for whom it is worse.  The vulnerable need to self-isolate, and everyone else resume life.  Govts should help the vulnerable isolate an survive while doing so, while everyone else gets this, so the virus can die-out. 

The only logical explanations for NOT doing this, are:
 - Many powerful are very-old, and don't care about everyone else's lives.

 - Big-Pharma needed to keep this virus alive long enough to make Trillions on a vaccine - which takes time to develop to the point it won't kill more than 1/10,000 or so.  The long-term side-effects won't be "discovered" until later, after the money has long been moved to Swiss accounts, and similar.

8 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Charging double for 2 is the biggest rip off. Does a car taxi charge double for 2 people?

A moto really only fits one - why  I always hire 2 (one for wife, one for me).  Moto-stands try to share the wealth between drivers (queues, territory, etc), so this policy is encouraging you to hire two motos.