Keith5588

@John L. Thanks a lot for the detailed information and the internet site, I have bookmarked it.

@Peterw42 Thanks a lot for explaining again, with your help I think I am starting to understand. Let me please explain why I got things so wrong. My problem was that I was mislead when talking with my French speaking Swiss friend some time ago. Not intentionally as his English was OK but not perfect and I cannot speak French. He bought a property with his Swiss wife for 4 or 5 Million baht, but he never talked about “property” he just said that he paid for a 30 year lease on the land. I think he even said that the land was worth 1 Million but 600,000 was entered to save tax. He was a bit foolish as he did not employ a lawyer and also just signed the contracts at the Land Registry office without reading them, he just trusted the estate agent I think. I now also think that he did not fully understand. He was having a lot of trouble, basically the original Thai land owner sold the land to another Thai person. I now believe that it should be worded property and not land and the freehold to the property (land and house) was sold. I think it was actually planned by the new Thai property owner as he saw that the contract was incorrect, a lower value entered to save tax. He wanted to buy my friends property for a cheap price. After many court visits my friend had to agree on a settlement and he said that he lost about 1 Million baht. My confusion has been because my friend said the land owner entered a lower figure for leasing the land for 30 years thus saving only about 25,000 baht. He first offered to pay the court this 25,000 baht and explained all he was guilty of was not reading the contract but the court did not accept this. I’m just writing this to explain why I have been so confused. Now with your help I realise the above was wrong. Now I think I am starting to understand that because my friend was buying an already built property, a Thai man owned the property (land and house) freehold and my Swiss friend signed a 30 year lease for this property. Phew! Am I starting to understand now? Thanks again for your help.

@Will B Good The sale of my house is not complete, my Title Deed plan needs to be updated, it's been an annoying delay. Concerning CGT, I'm sorry but that is something I also do not know, I have been told that CGT will be very small or maybe nothing as I have owned the house for over 45 years and it has been my only home.

Thanks @SamSpade that makes sense, it helps me gradually understand. I now thing there was some sort of misunderstanding when I spoke with the Swiss expat.

@bubblegum I am 72. The example I used was just that, I stated 40 year old person because if I stated 72 then asked about the situation after 29.9 years I would probably receive comments like I will be long dead. Hope that explains things.

@Will B Good I have to smile. I came to Thailand for a 4 month vacation in 2016 when I met my Thai gf. I returned to the UK and prepared my house to rent out. Had it rented out for 7.5 years while I lived happily in Thailand. Just as you suggest! Recently I went to the UK to sell my house as well as sort other matters. I have no immediate family in the UK, no children and my one brother had a tragic accident. I had to do a lot of work to prepare my house. I am now 72, I can still do it but I didn’t want to. In another 10 years it would be harder. Basically I want to have it sold and live a simple happy life in Thailand and remove the selling of a house problem for me or my gf. Your house sounds very good but I understand that location is important, thanks for the advise. We spent the first 4 years living in Khon Kaen which was OK, but I could not live in one of the remote villages, too isolated for me, but I also do not like a busy tourist place. Maybe you can sell me your house? 😊

Thanks for your comments @KhunLA Sorry I didn’t make it clear, I was just using a fictitious house as an example. I am actually 72 years old and have been living in Thailand for over 8 years with my Thai girlfriend. Similar length of time when you decided to marry. The location I think does not matter much as I was just trying to understand the legal facts, firstly if a farang bought a detached house as an example. I have to agree in that a Thai would buy freehold because they can. We have lived in a condo but the chances of annoying noise I think are much greater compared to a house. I much prefer to live in a house. Good to hear that you have had a good happy long experience with your wife. Me too, I think many do have good happy relationships.

Thanks @SamSpade actually I plan to do as you suggest, have my gf buy the property freehold + have a Usufruct contract. From what I have read the Usufruct contract is not for a period of time but it lasts until I die, then it dies with me. I prefer an older house, not a new build, just my preference. Even though, if I decide to buy and would do the above I still do not understand the basics. If the property is advertised at 5 Million, is that broken down to say 4 Million for the house + 1 million for the land? Then my gf buys the land freehold for 1 Million and I buy the house for 4 Million? Or as the house was already built then I think my gf would buy the property freehold for 5 Million? You mention put the land in her name and the house in my name. Is it possible to do that? If so then has it already been decided that the freehold land is worth say 1 Million + the house worth 4 Million? My expat friend purchased his house, that was already built, with his Swiss wife for about 5 Million. They obviously could not have any freehold. I think he said that he paid 1 Million for leasing the land for 30 years but the original land owner entered 600,000 on the contract to pay less tax. At the time years ago my friend just signed without looking. Recently it became a problem because the original land owner sold the land and the new owner discovered what happened and wanted to buy the house cheap. All this has left me confused. Maybe there was misunderstanding as the first language of my expat friend was not English. My biggest query is that if a house in an estate agents window has a price of 5 Million and it will be sold to an expat who has to lease for 30 years. Will he be paying 5 Million for the 30 year lease? The house and land cannot be separated? I am now 72 years old, maybe I am going ding dong without realising?

Thanks for you comment @motdaeng and your advise @Will B Good is good which is why I have been renting for the past 8 years. Possible noise concerns me so I would prefer to rent a house for a period of time that the owner also wishes to sell. The main reason I am considering buying is because I have lived happily with my Thai girlfriend for 8 years and I totally trust her and it would also be a way to give her security. She has not mentioned it and actually seems quite happy to continue to rent. Actually I might continue to rent as if any problem can just move but I would still love to understand the situation when buying.

Thanks for the comments. I am still confused, maybe because I have not bought a house in Thailand, I am just considering it. @Peterw42 thanks for your comment concerning a Thai company, it made me understand the advantage of this as there is no lease period. Although I believe if forming a Thai company with nominee thai shareholders only for the purpose of owning a house it is illegal, Thai law cannot be overcome that easily. For that reason I would never consider going down the Thai company route. About a year ago I spoke an expat friend who had bought a house, he said with a 30 year land lease but he was having problems because when signing the purchase forms the land owner had entered a lower price on the contract to save tax but my friend unknowingly signed it. The expat’s first language was not English so maybe I did not fully understand but I think he said he paid a total of 5 Million but 1 Million of that was for the 30 year land lease. He was having problems because the original land owner had sold the land to another Thai person. That is what I thought he said but now I am wondering if I understood wrong which has led to my confusion. So my question is:- If an estate agent has details of a detached house for sale for 5 Million what exactly does this mean? Many of these houses are sold to expats and many times that a 30 year lease for the land has been mentioned. Does someone own the land and the house, they cannot be separated. Then at the Land Office I would pay 5 Million to lease the land with the house on it for 30 years? So the land owner almost always also owns the house? Thanks Keith

I am having trouble understanding the details of buying a house as a foreigner with a 30 year land lease. As an example let’s say I buy a 3 bed detached single storey house on a 400SQM plot of land that is being sold for 5 Million THB. I sign for a 30 year lease. I am only 40 years old and have a long life expectancy. Also assume that house prices stay constant. I think I am right in that after the 30 years I will own nothing, the land owner will again own the land and everything on it. Obviously at that time another 30 year lease may or may not be agreed. So can the house ever be regarded as separate from the land? Are the words “land lease” confusing me and it should be more accurately be called “land and everything on it lease”? So what is the situation after 15 years? How much is my house and land worth? Is it 2.5 Million THB because any buyer would only have a lease period of 15 years if they cannot successfully negotiate a 30 year lease with the land owner. But if they successfully negotiate a 30 year lease with the land owner for the same price I paid what is the situation? Does the land owner receive 2.5 Million THB for a further 15 years and I also receive 2.5 Million THB. This all seems a bit odd to me? Maybe I am missing something? What is the situation after 29.9 years? I talk to the land owner about another 30 year lease? If he refuses to enter into another 30 year lease or would charge far too much do I own the house and could demolish it before the end of the 30 year lease? This is where my mind becomes totally confused. I can see that this might be possible with the detached house I bought but what if I bought a middle town house? So I ask again, can the house be regarded as separate from the land? Should it always be regarded as renting the house and land for 30 years and paying the rent upfront? I hope someone can help my very confused brain. Thanks Keith

In reply to some of the questions. I have no children or immediate family, all my assets I intend to leave to my Thai gf and her 2 sons. We have been living in Thailand together for the past 8 years, I fully trust her. So far I have been renting a house in Thailand but I will soon start to consider buying a house, it will be a way of giving a gift to my gf but I will have a Usufruct contract drawn up. Concerning pea pension fund, I very recently cashed in my pension funds to buy an annuity for myself, so I have that income until I die. I am lucky in that I am still healthy, I do not take any medication. My plan is to live a lot more than another 7 years 🙂 @Kinnock Why do you state that "Foreign bank accounts where you are non resident can be costly". Are the fee's higher? I want to consider giving to some charities in the near future before I die. @Gaccha I lved in Thailand for nearly 8 years before recently going to the UK. Now I am back in Thailand. So in about 2 or 3 years from now I would have been outside of the UK for over 10 years, so no problem there. Thanks for the information.

@hotandsticky When I have money from my UK house which is at the moment sold subject to contract total will be about £1 Million. I intend to spend some in Thailand but I really do not like the thought of later the UK government taking 40% inheritance tax.

I am a British citizen now retired in Thailand. No family in the UK and no plans to return to the UK. I have savings and investments mainly in the UK and some in Thailand. I think I will automatically become non UK resident for tax purposes but still UK tax assessed on interest and gain earned from UK savings and investments. I am 72 years old, my main thoughts are to mainly avoid any future UK inheritance tax. A friend briefly spoke about transferring money to Singapore. My thoughts are to do this. I want to look after my long term Thai girlfriend, I already have a UK Will and a Thai Will. So I believe all I need to do is transfer money from the UK to a Singapore bank or investment company probably via Wise. Then a bit later make a Singapore Will. Job done. Any thoughts and other suggestions / recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks Keith

Thanks @motdaeng Actually in the past I have had bank staff at Bangkok Bank branches wanting us to invest in these "Endowment policies", sometimes a hard sell suggesting that they receive a good commission. Every time they state that a high interest rate is guaranteed which makes me think that they have been trained to say that. I try to explain that if that is true then Bangkok bank should offer to pay customers 5% interest on their savings. it would be better than any other Thai bank so they would receive a lot of money. Then Bangkok bank could invest it and receive the guaranteed 10%. They either did not understand or choose not to understand or maybe I am wrong. Cheers Keith.

Hi, I arrived back in Thailand from the UK, on Tuesday 26th, 4 days ago. I already have a Bangkok bank account, I visited Kasikorn Bank and opened accounts for both myself and my girlfriend. In the Kasikorn Bank App you can select "Investments" then can select "Mutual Funds". To invest in these funds the Kasikorn bank staff said I need to visit again to register for investing. I couldn't register at the time as the bank had already closed it's doors. There seems to be a lot of different mutual funds to choose. I don't fully understand the funds and not know the management costs. Can also select to invest in gold. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of investing in these mutual funds or gold? I visted Bangkok bank before going to Kasinkorn Bank, to get my App working again as it had been disabled like many others. I asked about investing and the lady showed me what I will call an insurance endowment policy. Unfortuately it is all in Thai language. Basically you deposit an amount e.g. 200,000 THB each year for 10 years. Then totally withdraw after a total of 15 years. She kept saying that it is a guaranteed interest rate of 10% per year even after I said several times that thought that it could not be totally guaranteed. If you had to close it and withdraw after 5 years you would forfeit a lot of the interest but would withdraw a bit more than your total deposits. There is also an insurance element that pays out if you die. To me I feel that no investment at this time would pay a guaranteed 10%. Maybe guaranteed as long as the stockmarket rises 20% or something like that but not a total guarantee. The lady disagreed with me and repeated that it is totally guaranteed. Can I ask what others think? Thanks Keith

@persimmon Regarding UK IHT. After a Google Search the result I get is that if you are not UK resident for ten years or more then you are not liable for inheritance tax on your non-UK assets. So I think your UK assets will still be assessed for IHT.

@Gaccha Thank you for your very good detailed post. I will probably try Stashaway when I am back in Thailand in the near future, as you state it seems to be what I am looking for. I had never heard of the ABC rule, it makes sense. Thank's Keith

Thanks for all the comments. I have just sold my house STC in the UK and in a few days will be returning to Thailand, the plan is to spend the rest of my life in Thailand. I want to transfer money from the UK partly to avoid inheritance tax at a later date. At the moment I do have some Sterling based funds, a high % invested in the US, some Japanese funds etc. To keep things simple (for Last Will and Testaments) I would like to to just have my assets in the UK or Thailand, no other country. I was hoping to be able to have some Thai baht based funds invested in the US etc. Maybe this is impossible? Maybe I am writing nonsense as I admit that I do not fully understand what is available. Cheers Keith

Thanks for your comments @GarryP Can I ask if you invest in the mutual funds via one of the Thai banks or is it a separate investment company'?

Hi, I have most of my savings and investments in the UK where it is easy to obtain over 4% interest in a bank fixed interest savings account, or invest in mutual funds or stocks & shares. It seems that once you have money in Thai baht in a Thai bank account the banks only offer about 1% interest in a fixed account. This is the limit of my knowledge and why I am writing this post to hopefully get some help. I have a UK HSBC bank account and intend to ask HSBC Thai bank if I open an account with them will I be able to invest the Thai baht in say mutual funds. I think I have also read that you can invest in funds / the stock market via Kasikorn bank? So if possible to invest Thai baht in the worldwide stock market does anyone know if the terms and conditions /charges are similar to the same investment via a UK company? Thanks in advance Keith

@Equatorial Thank you for giving good information, I hadn't thought of that aspect. She does not co-own my UK assets. I have left everything to her and also for her to be the Executor but you are right in that upon my death my assets I think would be frozen until they are executed properly. So I now believe even more that I would be much better only giving her the name of the companies who have my money. Thanks again Keith

Hi, I am from the UK, retired and living happily in Thailand. We have been happily together 24/7 for the past 8 years and I fully trust my Thai gf / partner. Just to clarify there is not a huge age different, I am 72 and she is 60, we are thankfully both healthy. I have actually made sure that she will be OK, I have Wills, both for Thailand and the UK. But I want to make sure that processing my UK Will is not too difficult. I have quite a lot of investments and my log in details to banks are quite complicated and I encrypt them. I started to think that I must give my gf the log in details but now I think there would be no need. All I need to do is list where my UK money is, if I die she would have a death certificate, the Executor of my Will could then contact each bank / investment company and have my money released, no log in details, passwords etc. would be needed. Am I right? Or would it be best if I give my gf some log in details, again I do fully trust her? Your comments much appreciated Thanks Keith

Thank you @Goodison and @Phulublub Yes I agree with you both. I am now in the UK and listened to Les last night. I did ask him previously to be very careful in wording a question to the DWP to remove any chance of an ambitious reply. Strange that he still thinks he is correct. He also discussed Thai Tax. I believe that his pension from the UK fire service is not assessed for Thai tax but I do think the UK state pension is assessed if brought into Thailand. Although the UK state pension is classed as income and subject to UK tax. Les very positively said UK state pension is not assessed. I might be wrong with the tax as it does not affect me and I do not have time to check. I am just relying on memory which at nearly 72 is not always good.

Thank you @UKresonant I like the basket for each egg analysis. And thank you @Oliver Holzerfilled