Keith5588

For this post I would like to understand the situation if I bought a house and also bought a 30 year lease of the land from a Thai National. Also assume that house prices do not change. Lets say the house is 6 Million baht but that includes 2 Million baht for leasing the land for 30 years. So 4 Million for the house + 2 Million for the land lease. 1. When a house is advertised at 6 Million baht lease hold is that price usually the total price that includes the house and the lease of the land for 30 years? 2. I assume that after 30 years if the Thai owner of the land would not renew the land lease for another 30 years then that Thai person would own the land and everything on it. They would own the land and the house and the foreigner would own nothing. Is this correct? 3. Assume I wish to sell the house after 20 years what is the situation? Would the house + the remaining 10 years land lease be worth just 2 Million? But if the new owner could form a new 30 year land lease for 2 Million baht with the Thai land owner then the house would be worth the original 4 Million? Thanks in advance for any help Keith

Very good information Tim, I see they have the Non Imm O Visa Retirement. I had a quick look at gov.uk foreign travel advice for curiousity and it advises not to go to Myanmar except for Yangon region. So OK to go there but I currently live in Hua Hin so would be best for me to fly and I would prefer to have a weeks holiday in Kuala Lumpur, no visa requirements for me, and I think more relaxing. Thanks again for the information

Thanks zzzzz, good information.

Thanks Jack. I am now thinking of buying a rent a flight as you suggest. It will be a lot cheaper than buying a throw away flight for about 1,600 baht, I can then relax and I will also be learning something new as I haven’t used rent a flight before. Thank you Keith

Thanks Jack, if I found that obtaining a Non O in Kuala Lumpur seemed very straight forward I might have considered going straight to the Thai Consulate there. Of course if a problem then can always return visa exempt. At the moment I think you are right and visa exempt is the best way. If I do that at the moment I will put it to the test in that I will take proof that I live in Thailand, maybe politely ask to see a supervisor at check in if they are not busy. If they insist I can purchase a throw away flight for near the end of my visa exempt permit to stay. Cheers Keith

Thanks Joe, I have definitely seen posts on here stating that the Non O can be obtained in Penang, in fact if my memory is correct someone obtained a multi entry Non O in Penang. But these were probably about 2 or 3 years ago. Also I have seen stated on here that Penang requirements are the same as Savannakhet in that medical and police checks not needed. I posted because I had not looked at the Thai Embassy / consulate sites before and wondered if I was doing something wrong. I don't need to change my O-A to an O until May next year and as requirements may change I will either contact the Thai consulates near the time or more likely speak to my local immigration office and then come in visa exempt. Cheers Keith

As I do not want to purchase health insurance next year I will try to change my Non Imm O-A to a Non Imm O. I have read a lot of helpful information on here and I may choose to return to Thailand Visa Exempt but I thought I would consider applying for a Non Imm O abroad. I think there is a small possible inconvenience of needing proof of onward travel if flying into Thailand visa exempt. In that case I would first show proof that I actually live in Thailand at check in. Hopefully they would show common sense but I would also be prepared to purchase a throw away air flight. My first thoughts were that myself and my Thai gf would fly to Kuala Lumpur for 1 weeks holiday so I looked at the Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur https://kualalumpur.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/visa-requirements-i-3 It lists all visas and one is NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (O-Retirement) Required Documents include police cert and medical cert so I thought I would have a look at Penang. https://penang.thaiembassy.org/th/publicservice/114490-visa-requirements-ii I have never looked at this before but it is a bit concerning that Non Imm O Retirement is not listed? Anyone know if Penang has stopped issuing Non Imm O Retirement visa’s? 1. TOURIST VISA (TR) - For tourism purpose 2. TRANSIT VISA (TS) - To transit through Thailand to another country 3. VISA FOR PARTICIPANT IN SPORT COMPETITION (TS) - To participate in sport events in Thailand 4. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (B) FOR BUSINESS PURPOSE - To engage in business-related activities in Thailand 5. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (B) FOR EMPLOYMENT - To be employed in Thailand 6. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (B) FOR EMPLOYMENT AS TEACHER - To be employed as teacher in Thailand 7. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (ED) FOR NON-BUSINESS CONFERENCE/MEETING - To attend non-business conference/meeting in Thailand 8. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (ED) FOR EDUCATION - To study or take academic course in Thailand 9. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (ED) FOR UNPAID INTERNSHIP AND TRAINING - To participate in unpaid internship, workshop or training in Thailand 10. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (O) FOR VOLUNTEER - To engage in volunteer works in Thailand* *see also remarks (2) below 11. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (O-A) FOR LONG STAY - To stay in Thailand for a long period 12. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (O) FOR DEPENDANT - For dependant of the main visa applicant or foreign spouse/ children of a Thai citizen 13. VISA FOR DIPLOMATIC AND OFFICIAL PASSPORT HOLDER 14. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (F) FOR OFFICIAL VISIT BY ORDINARY PASSPORT HOLDER - To attend event hosted by an authority in Thailand 15. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (M) FOR MEDIA AND FILMING - To cover the news or to shoot films/ documentaries/ commercials in Thailand 16. NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (RS) FOR RESEARCH AND SCIENCE - To engage in research and science activities in Thailand 17. SMART VISA PROGRAMME - For foreign experts, executives, entrepreneurs and investors who wish to work or to invest in Thailand in targeted industries

Thanks Jack, I did suspect I would need an onward flight even though I think it illogical as I live in Thailand. Cheers Keith

Hi, I am from the UK. 5 years ago I obtained a Non Imm O-A visa just before travelling to Thailand. Because of some very helpful people of this site (it was then Thai Visa) I knew what best to do. Myself and my Thai girlfriend had a holiday in Vietnam just before the Enter Before date on my visa. Concerning health insurance I decided to self insure. I have more than 800,000 baht a Thai bank account. I obtained my first 1 year extension based on retirement at a cost of 1,900B The changing of the rules then started to affect me in that I needed health insurance for further 1 year extensions. I had planned to change to a Non Imm O visa but Covid put that on hold. So 3 times I have had to buy almost worthless Thai approved health insurance for 7,700 baht per year. In May 2023 I will have to pay a lot more for health insurance but the borders are open ….. Yippee …… It is now time to convert to a Non Imm O visa! A good excuse for a holiday! I now live in Hua Hin and my plan is fly to Kular Lumpar to have a short holiday, then return with a 30 or 45 day visa exemption, then go to Hua Hin immigration to obtain a Non Imm O visa. They have already said that they can do that. I have one question concerning proof of onward travel. I have been living in Thailand for 5 years, I rent a condo in Hua Hin and have the rental contract. I own a car and a motorbike in Thailand and have Thai driving licences. I will be buying return Air Asia tickets for my Thai gf and myself Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur for 1 week. Because I will be entering Thailand with a visa exempt stamp, in my situation would I really need to purchase another flight out of Thailand that I would obviously not use? Thanks in advance Keith

@Mickeymaus I think you are right and it could cause suspicion. It is best to do everything correctly and legally, no reason to not to. I will have a look at the notes I printed for my girlfriend and make a correction if necessary. I will make a note in "Google Keep", I now use that regularly as I find it now more easy to forget. Thanks Keith

@JimGant Thanks again for good solid information and advice. Just before I wrote my Wills I read on the internet that a farang died but had no Will. All his assets went to his family in his home country. His girlfriend / partner of many years, who looked after him for many years especially his last few years had to pay for the funeral but received nothing. I therefore visited the bank to have her open a Fixed account which I then transferred 400,000 baht into. Then I wrote the Wills. My Wills are also very simple except my bank accounts are in my name and I also have a car and Scooter in my name. I did also write and printed a page of instructions. I did mention to use my ATM card to withdraw as much as possible and gave my PIN. I also stated a Lawyer for her to contact. I now realise that a Lawyer may not be necessary if no probate is needed but I think it is well worth the few thousand baht to take the legal worry away from my girlfriend and to make sure things are done correctly if I am not around. They may even give further advice (on top of what I wrote) on how best to proceed with my UK Will. Anyway I feel very healthy at 69 years old so hopefully my Wills will not be needed for many years. Hopefully you are healthy too Cheers Keith

@JimGant and @Liverpool Lou Thank you both so much. I started this post because someone said very positively that my Thai Will needs to be in Thai language, similar to some people posting here.It made no sense to me that MY WILL needs to be written in a language I do not understand. I would not sign a Will I do not understand and so it would be worthless. As said any Will can be translated later if the Thai court needs that to be done.You have both confirmed what I previously concluded and also given me extra information and good links.I think a lot is common sense. I spent a lot of time making sure that both Wills (Thai and UK) were very clear and concise. At first my Will fitted on 2 pages, I was going to sign and have witnessed each page, but in the end after playing with font sizes etc. managed to fit each Will on 1 page. That was the extent I went to just to make sure.The only problem was some people recently saying very positively that my Thai Will needs to be in Thai language which made no sense to me.I guess the reason is that all Legal Services and Lawyers in Thailand are mostly Thai people. They probably write their Will template in Thai language and then translate to English (they may or may not offer a translation to a different language other than English). So they already have their Will templates in Thai Language and in English language. So very little work to give you both. I have never been to any Legal Services or Lawyers in Thailand to have my Will done but I guess that I would only sign the English written one.I didn't write my own Wills to save money. If possible I like to understand and have control over my affairs. It is the same with dealing with immigration, I have always made sure that I understand and so have never used an agent or paid any "tea money". Even for my yearly 1 year extension based on retirement I have always been in and out in less than 1 hour.Sorry now I am going off topic.Thank you both again for your very good help. Keith

I thought exactly the same as you @Liverpool Lou thank you. And thank you for your other sensible and helpful comments.

@JimGant You seem like a very intelligent helpful person, thank you very much. Unfortunately Thailand does like to have lot's of paperwork and a few weeks ago I did sign bank forms written in Thai while inside a main bank while opening new bank accounts. But when it is something important like your own Will that you have total control of I am amazed that some people think that it best to sign the Will that is written in a language that they do not understand? Soon after I posted on here I received the strange comments so I also posted elsewhere. There I received good advice as I have from you. Some comments were from a Lawyer (not a Lawyer in a private company looking for work) and they said exactly as you in that later a Thai court can have my Will translated into Thai or request that it is done, if they wish. It's common sense really and what I originally thought. Thanks also for your other comment about can have just the one Will, that makes sense. I did spend quite a lot of time 2 years ago forming the Wills, condensing them to just the one A4 page each. My UK Will clearly states it is only for my UK assets. I also mentioned that I have a separate Will for my Thai assets. My Thai Will states similar. I am now happy again that they are good. Thanks again Jim

Thank you @arithai12 . My Thai Will is in English language, the only language that I understand. I would not sign it if it was written in Thai language. I can understand you doing so because you were very confident that the Thai translation was correct. If I died my girlfriend will take my Will to a Lawyer in Thailand to help process the probate at a Thai court. At this point why can't my Will be officially translated into Thai language for the court if necessary? Why can't this all be done while living in Thailand? This is what I am having a lot of trouble understanding.

Thanks again @nigelforbes My Thai Will is in English language with very clear instructions etc. I started this post because someone put doubt in my mind and so I was prepared to have my Wills checked by a Lawyer. I now feel again that I have done things correctly. I believe that no Thai translation needs to be done until just before it is presented at a Thai court before probate. I have left details of a Lawyer for my girlfriend to contact, then my girlfriend can have the translation done as you describe or what the Lawyer or court says it needs.

Thank you @nigelforbes

Thank you @Farmerslife but please read my original post. I stated that I wrote the Wills and then signed then in front of witnesses who then signed the Wills. They are not beneficiaries, I was aware of that. Without going into too much detail I think I made very good clear Wills, including my gf's ID, her registered address in her village where she owns a house etc. etc. These Wills where written and signed by me and 2 witnesses almost 2 years ago. The UK Will I am happy with. The Thai Will is in English language only.

I agree not many people in the UK would be able to read Thai. My thoughts are that if this Thai male in the UK dies then his English girlfriend should be able to take his Will to be officially translated into English and notarised then that official translation should be accepted by the UK court. I think it would be unfair to the Thai male living in the UK who cannot read any English to sign an English written Will that he does not understand. I really am missing something?

Thank you @Farmerslife I will make more enquiries. I still do not understand, it is my Will and I need to fully understand it. If I die my girlfriend knows where to find the Thai Will written in English. She could then go to a lawyer and have it legally translated and notarised if necessary. You have confirmed what I have previously read.

Hi,I am from the UK. Can a Last Will & Testament for all my assets that I have in Thailand be written in English only with no Thai language copy?This has been on my mind for a while as I have read a few times that it needs a copy in Thai language as well as English but to me that does not make any sense. I cannot read Thai, how can I possibly sign something that I do not understand? After I die then my Will can be translated if required. Any help much appreciated.A little explanation. My Thai girlfriend and myself have been living together in Thailand for the past 5 years.During the Covid lockdown nearly 2 years ago I researched on the internet then wrote 2 Wills myself, one for all my Thai assets and another separate Will for all my UK assets.I have no children and I have never been married, no dependents, my parents have die, so basically no family. My Thai girlfriends children are grow up. My assets in both countries are very simply described. I am confident that I wrote very clear Wills in English language, in both stating my girlfriend as executor and also leaving everything to her. I signed both Wills in the presence of witnesses who then signed.Thank youKeith

Thanks again, good points. I didn't say but I am 69 years of age and my Thai gf 56. Luckily we are still both very healthy. Her children have their own lives and are over 20. So good facts but would not apply to me. I would want everything to be left to my gf if I die.

Thanks a lot Blackcab, your explanation is very good. As you write it would be equivalent to paying 30 years rent upfront. I have been with my Thai gf for 5 years and I trust her but I would like to continue to rent for at least a few more years. I really do not like leasing and much prefer freehold. So at the moment I am thinking after a few more years then have my gf buy the house and land freehold. Also for her to enter into a Usufruct contract with me giving me the right to live there until I die. Basically the land and house would eventually go to my gf or her children which is what I would want. Thanks again Keith

Thanks. So at the end of the 30 year land lease assuming that the Thai land owner does not wish to enter into another 30 year land lease. What is the position of the foreigner? He cannot remain occupying the land so I assume that he has to leave his house? If on very bad terms with the Thai land owner and no agreement can be made the foreigner could demolish his house. It would be a drastic thing to do and with no gain for himself. So basically at the end of the first 30 year land lease if it is not renewed then the foreigner also loses the house?

Thanks but I read that another 30 year lease is not guaranteed? I also know someone who took a 30 year land lease about 15 years ago. The Thai land owner wants him gone so I do not think another 30 year lease will be offered.