mfd101

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email

Brexit: Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they wanted 'protest vote' and thought UK would stay in EU

Some said they had not forseen the immediate economic impact, while others were angry at Nigel Faraga's admisison that NHS funding claim was a 'mistake'

It's not my fault, Mummy, Jeremy did it! Perhaps if they had reduced the voting age to 10 they might have got a better result!

Still, I think - looking on the bright side - that some good may come of it, in about 10-30 years. The Brits could realize for instance that what they need is a federation. There are 2 reasons for having a federal system - large geographical size, which obviously doesn't apply in the case of Little Britain; or ethnic problems, which obviously do. In this latter case, you set up a 2-tier system of government to give those with a chip on the shoulder the illusion of independence & sovereignty.

Meantime, ...

Britain start to look more and more like Thailand, populated by millions of illiterate and uneducated xenophobes.

No wonder so many Brits come on holiday here.

Interestingly enough . After the Brexit vote the EU has decided to look at the possiblities of giving Sovereign members more control over their own Borders. So the Leavers obviously had some valid points. If the UK Parliament decides to ignore the result then that is the end of Democracy. The difficult things are where to now? But hopefully as has been the case in times of crisis and change a new Captain will arise. A Country that once ruled a huge Empire and pioneered the Industrial revolution may not regain its former glory. But surely all the seeds of rejuvenation are not dead in the Garden.

Yes, the issue is to turn problems (now massive) into opportunities for structural & cultural change, not just in Britain but throughout Europe. We'll know how they're tracking in about 20 years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email

Brexit: Anger over 'Bregret' as Leave voters say they wanted 'protest vote' and thought UK would stay in EU

Some said they had not forseen the immediate economic impact, while others were angry at Nigel Faraga's admisison that NHS funding claim was a 'mistake'

It's not my fault, Mummy, Jeremy did it! Perhaps if they had reduced the voting age to 10 they might have got a better result!

Still, I think - looking on the bright side - that some good may come of it, in about 10-30 years. The Brits could realize for instance that what they need is a federation. There are 2 reasons for having a federal system - large geographical size, which obviously doesn't apply in the case of Little Britain; or ethnic problems, which obviously do. In this latter case, you set up a 2-tier system of government to give those with a chip on the shoulder the illusion of independence & sovereignty.

Meantime, ...

They are all playing this miserly game now. I agree we paid for years for a pension and immigrants waltz in and get almost the same benefit we do after years of working it definitely sucks. They contribute little till the 2nd and 3rd generation they are only incubators for the future(if there is one). After the 2nd and 3rd generations see how easy the money flows well it kills any incentive they had to get an education and a meaningful non McDonalds type of job. Yes governments would have us believe these pensions are a benevolent gift sorry they are an entitlement. Governments are looking in every nook and cranny to try and squeeze out a buck and we pensioners are constantly under the microscope. We have outlived our usefulness it seems. They want us to help pay for decades of mismanagement and importation of immigrants. I am sure Dodgy Dave will kiss the PM's job goodbye in October and collect his generous pension immediately. I am sure the large corporations are already lining up with their checkbooks out to hire him( at many times his present stepping stone salary) to advance their agenda in English political circles. Before his life is over he will be a double and triple dipper into the pension system. Shame on him and shame on the Brits for allowing this BS to happen.

You have to pay taxes and contribute to National insurance for 30 years to get you miserable pension they reluctantly give you.

Meanwhile the government has to fork out a lot of money every year to help other Europeans and immigrants who have never paid a penny to UK.

I resent the fact that they are entitled to more than me as I contributed more than 30 years dues and others like me are told the pensions are costing the UK too much now.

I don't think you quite realise how pensions work, you did not pay for your pension....you paid for your parents pension and your children will pay for yours. It is not an entitlement, the only entitlement would be to get back what you put in, so if you put in 12% of your salary for 30 years, enjoy living off that 12% now.

If you want your pension to increase, you need to increase the amount of contributions being made now.

The only way any pension in the world can work is if the contributions continually increase, when the is a population burst(like for example after ww2) when those people start to get to retirement age(like for example now) they actually need and should be campaigning for increased immigration to support their retirement......that is how government pensions work.

Yes, east Asians [mostly Chinese & Vietnamese] keep pouring into Australia each year as migrants. Their children top the end-of-school exams each year as they head on to university. I welcome them with open arms: they are law-abiding, hard working and their taxes are paying for my comfortable old age.

Since the vote google has reported a massive increase in the search term "what does a eu exit mean for england" from within the UK.

So basically people voted and then have gone on google to find out what they voted for, nothing like a decision made with all the information available.....

Lack of knowledge never stopped people having strong opinions.

Mostly a vote for the past rather than the future. Democracies tend to do that.

Oz & the USofA are preparing to do much the same thing, Oz in a couple of weeks.

Some people have a very elastic concept of what it is to be "a tourist" and to stay in a country - any country - on a "tourist visa". An elasticity understandably not shared by ANY immigration officials ANYWHERE in the world!

YOU are a tourist also, just because you qualify for a visa that Immigration have kindly provided that doesn't mean you are any different from people that survive here on Tourist visas

Remember, that long term visa you are on can easily be taken away if Immigration decide to change the rules

Don't think you are any different to anybody who stays here on TV's because you are not, you can be kicked out at any time like everyone else

I agree. But at least some people go through the hoops designed for long stay. There's no way a 'tourist visa' is designed for people to stay here - or anywhere else - for years on end! Would you think that was normal & appropriate behaviour from foreigners in your home country? Would your government and its officials think that was appropriate? I think not.

Same issues in Australia (and no doubt other countries). Oz immigration classifies Thailand as category 3 or 4 - I've forgotten the details but: High Risk. Why? because Thais come on tourist or partner visas which do not allow them to work, so they work in Thai restaurants & no doubt elsewhere. And they overstay, hidden in the Thai community, and think, funnily enough, that the longer they stay the greater their chances of eventually being allowed permanent residency!

So if Thais have problems getting through the first hoop, they have noone to blame but their own compatriots who break every rule in the book.

My experience with my partner, going to Oz for both short (2 weeks) & longer (temporary residency) stays, was that there's no problem provided you (1) fill out the 18- and 20- page forms properly, with supporting docos, and (2) do exactly what you say you're going to do - ie arrive on date X & leave on date Y. Thereafter you have no problems on subsequent stays (and of course following the same rules).

I'm picking up a new Mazda 3 2L SP next week, with all the modern electronics, so it'll be interesting to see how it goes - at least for me whose last car in Oz, before arriving here late last year, was a 2003 Holden Calais (ie Dark Ages by today's standards, but a splendid, large & reliable drive on Canberra's luxury roads and up & down the Hume Hgwy). Here I will drive mostly in rural Thailand (Surin & nearby) so I expect the fuel consumption should be OK. I hope never to drive in BKK, though that's always going to be a threat on the horizon.

Now I just have to teach my partner to drive (sigh!) ...

I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

Is gay marriage legal here? It isn't back home(Australia)....but should be. It's amazing how backwards Australia are in that respect.

Just asking out of curiosity, probably could have googled it but I am on here anyway.

Not recognized officially here but at village level, they have no difficulties with it. And neither does Buddhism ("Marriage is for 2 people who love each other."). Half the village turned up for ours and we laughed and sweated our way thru the morning as the old man who lead the ceremony mumbled his prayers and the old ladies kept on correcting him ... A marriage ceremony is about social recognition: a public declaration of commitment and acceptance by the community. We have that in spades here, and nowhere we go in Thailand from BKK to village do we encounter a problem.

I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

It depends where you met.

Also, what would your kids, nephews etc say?

We met in BKK in a gay bar (the relevance of which to your view of the matter is not entirely obvious to me).

My family in NZ & Oz, and all friends there, are fine with it. Some attended the marriage ceremony in Surin 3 years ago, all have welcomed my partner into the family & friendships.

I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

You obviously don't care what people think.

Would you say your relationship is a business one or one of love?

Well we love each other. We do everything together, we travel together, we're currently living on the family farm with other adults & 4 children while our 2-storey house 30 minutes drive away is under construction, we provide for the children's education and are developing the farm away from rice & cassava so that life there is more sustainable for the long-term ... Does my money play a role in all that? No doubt, it helps to smooth the way but he's very clear that he would love me even without it ...

I am about to turn 67. My partner is about to turn 27. We've been together 4 years and happily married for 3. He was poor and comes from a very poor, mostly illiterate Isaan family. I am, by Thai standards, "rich".

Hope that's OK with everyone.

In fact people as young as 15 can marry if the parents agree but the matter may need to be ratified by a court so it is clearly understood that both sides agree. Permission in such cases might be given when a pregnancy is involved.

I would've though a lengthy jail sentence would be given if a pregnancy was involved in a 15 year old's marriage...

The legal age of consent is 15.

The authorities in Thailand are mostly lenient towards the fathers of too young mothers if he marries the girl and takes care of her and the kid. In any case, that's a much better alternative for the child than having no money and a father in prison.

It's important to understand also that less than 50 years ago, it was very common for girls in rural Thailand to marry and get children around the age of 15, and the husband was very often much older than her, like between 25 and 40. There were many advantages to solutions like that, not least the fact that he was more mature and had the financial means to take care of his wife. Don't expect Thailand to suddenly follow our western norms in all areas. It's a sovereign country after all.

The moralizers should also keep - or gain - an historical perspective in all this. Until the early 1900s the age of consent (whether to sex or to marriage) in almost all 'Western' countries was in the range 10-12. None were over 13.

You could do a border hop or an out and back by air just before October 12 to get a new 12 month entry and then get a re-entry permit for your trip in November.

Yes, that's pretty-well what I'm thinking. I live in south Surin so only a hop step & a jump across the Cambodian border by car, then reentry permit before trip back to Oz & NZ in early Nov.

Cheers

Your plan is sound. Take US$ for the Cambodian visa to save a bit of money.

Yes, I've been to Siem Reap a couple of times in the last 4 years (both times by air from BKK) so I know the drill. My partner says Let's do 2 or 3 nights in Singapore. Sigh! depends on the funds ... We will have just moved (July, I hope) into our new house currently abuilding in Prasat so it may be Cambodia as the cheapest option!

You could do a border hop or an out and back by air just before October 12 to get a new 12 month entry and then get a re-entry permit for your trip in November.

Yes, that's pretty-well what I'm thinking. I live in south Surin so only a hop step & a jump across the Cambodian border by car, then reentry permit before trip back to Oz & NZ in early Nov.

Cheers

OK, thanks to both. So I need to change my travel plans which is easily doable at this early stage.

I'm on a Non-Immigrant O-A multiple-entry visa, issued in Canberra on 13 October 2015. The visa in my p/p says: Enter before 12 October 2016.

I entered Thailand with my Thai partner on 22 November 2015, as displayed on the TM6 departure card. The stamp in my p/p, dated 22Nov15, says: "Admitted until 20 Nov 2016".

I have been assuming the 'end date' is 20 Nov this year and that, by doing some foreign travel in the couple of weeks before then, but returning to Thailand before 20 Nov, I would (1) not need any reentry permit because it's a multiple entry visa, and (2) would automatically receive a 12-month extension of stay without having to do the retirement conversion till Nov 2017.

Is that correct?

Thanks for clarification.

When my partner (male) and I got married in a village ceremony in 2013, his Mum wanted 200,000฿. I said: Well I'm already building you a house costing me 1.5M. What do you want, house or dowry?

There was much cackling of laughter at this and we settled on 100,000. All fine.

I'm surprised she had the nerve to ask. I'm surprised you were foolish enough to shell out anything on top of US $50K, or even that you copped that.

I guess different people have different views on what's important in life, and on how to maintain a marriage, and on how to live in a foreign culture ...

I guess different people want to be ripped off by mercenary in laws.

I've lived in several Asian countries, Indonesia, Cambodia, Japan, and respect their culture, but I don't have to adopt it, e.g., in Japan I refused to bow to anyone, and asked that they not bow to me. I felt uncomfortable having people bowing. It's just not my culture. Even the Japanese realize it's an anachronistic practice, and it happens less often in modern Japan.

In Indonesia, and Thailand, I'm happy not to point as westerners do with a forefinger, summon somebody with my hand pointing upwards, or point my feet toward anyone, because they feel it's offensive. I can't subscribe to the dowry/sin sod thing because whilst there is nothing offensive about it to them, it is offensive TO ME!!! They don't seem to respect my culture????

If a westerner has to continually shell out to maintain his marriage, he's nuts, and the wife/family is using him as an ATM.

Go ahead suckers, pay a fortune for a (perhaps former, if you're lucky) bar girl. It's not my way.

Interesting how many correspondents on this site do such a wonderful impression of being mean, miserable and malevolent old men, boasting of their cynicism and selfishness. I suppose it's just part of the usual cocktail circuit routine and in real life they're really kind, gentle and generous husbands and fathers.

When my partner (male) and I got married in a village ceremony in 2013, his Mum wanted 200,000฿. I said: Well I'm already building you a house costing me 1.5M. What do you want, house or dowry?

There was much cackling of laughter at this and we settled on 100,000. All fine.

I'm surprised she had the nerve to ask. I'm surprised you were foolish enough to shell out anything on top of US $50K, or even that you copped that.

I guess different people have different views on what's important in life, and on how to maintain a marriage, and on how to live in a foreign culture ...

I reckon that "maintaining a marriage" requires an equal contribution from both parties. Presumably your partner, being male, has made a significant contribution to your parents' lifestyle?

So if I give my partner toast with marmalade for breakfast today, he has to give me toast with marmalade tomorrow?

When my partner (male) and I got married in a village ceremony in 2013, his Mum wanted 200,000฿. I said: Well I'm already building you a house costing me 1.5M. What do you want, house or dowry?

There was much cackling of laughter at this and we settled on 100,000. All fine.

I'm surprised she had the nerve to ask. I'm surprised you were foolish enough to shell out anything on top of US $50K, or even that you copped that.

I guess different people have different views on what's important in life, and on how to maintain a marriage, and on how to live in a foreign culture ...

When my partner (male) and I got married in a village ceremony in 2013, his Mum wanted 200,000฿. I said: Well I'm already building you a house costing me 1.5M. What do you want, house or dowry?

There was much cackling of laughter at this and we settled on 100,000. All fine.

Here in southern Surin yesterday, after about 2 hours of strong winds & thunder & lightening starting about 1800, we finally got torrential rain for around 45 minutes then nice steady rain for another couple of hours. Lovely.

I used King & Wilson in Canberra to pack & store my household goods last November. Not cheap but excellent service & good people to deal with. Still in storage in Canberra. Am building a house in Prasat Surin so will know soon how it all goes when I give them the go-ahead to despatch. From memory, about 21 cu.m.

Vasu is what I use (Sukhumvit Rd). Better rate than any bank. Haven't ever used SuperRich but I assume they would be comparable.