Wilson Smith

On 5/19/2019 at 10:19 PM, Yellowtail said:

I always understood (at least since I got sober) alcoholism to be "An allergy of the body coupled with an obsession of the mind." 

 

I do understand it to be a spiritual program...

Perhaps you should open your eyes and your ears!

On 5/18/2019 at 6:29 PM, likerdup1 said:

 you have not completely studied the literature ...

“When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically.” 

On 4/20/2019 at 8:41 PM, likerdup1 said:

Yea, show me in the Big Book or in the 12 and 12 where it goes into detail describing Alcoholism as a spiritual malady and then you can tell me I forgot something.

 

It's a popular party line in the meetings to say it's also a spiritual malady but it is not useful to start telling that to new commers. That is why it is only briefly mentioned ONCE in ONE sentence in the 4th step portion of our Big Books first 164 pages.

 

There is however an entire section called the Doctors Opinion that goes into depth describing the physical allergy - phenomenon of craving part of alcohlism.

 

There is an entire chapter called "More About Alcoholism" that goes into depth about the mental obsession portion of alcoholism .... as AA describes Alcoholism

 

Carl Jungs writings however interesting are not officially AA and when I'm working with new commers I NEVER start going on about his alcoholism being a spiritual malady ... that is what AA calls "leading with the chin".. Its' borderline being evangelical... which drives some from AA and has them telling their friends that AA is a bunch of Jesus freaks.

 

I have sponsored many men over the years and I use the chapter "working with others" as my guideline. It specifically says to NOT start talking about God or spirituality in the beginning when approaching a new alcoholic. Be careful, if that's what you are doing you might be driving alcoholics away who could use a more delicate approach to God and spirituality.

 

I didnt' forget anything ... you just haven't studied the program that much and you have bought the party line ... that it's also a spiritual malady that get's kicked carelessly around the rooms... sorry but you are mistaken to make that some significant part of the description of alcoholism. The BIG BOOK does not do that and so I do not do that. I would recommend if you are sharing that party line in meetings that you not.

 

BB More About Alcoholism, p.42 "Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully.

BB More About Alcoholism, p.43 Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours.

BB We Agnostics, p.47 When people presented us with spiritual approaches, how frequently did we all say, "I wish I had what that man has.)

BB The Doctor's Opinion, p.xxvi Though we work out our solution on the spiritual as well as an altruistic plane,

BB We Agnostics, p.45 That means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral.

BB We Agnostics, p.49 We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves

BB We Agnostics, p.44 To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The DOE will not accept an application for a work permit if a the applicant is on a non-ed visa entry or an extension of stay for attending school.

Yes, however the person can get another letter from the school and apply again.

If it is a BOI company there may be an age requirement and/or an experience requirement. I do believe you can get a wp with an ED visa however getting the right docs and support from your uni may not be easy,

17 hours ago, Nikz said:

If there is a fine, I should pay overstay fine for 6 months? Like 500 per day? 

How to find out is to go to the immigration office that issued you the extension to stay and tell them your story. Based on your first comment your new HR did this already and the news was not good. Ultimately you need this office to stamp a void stamp on your old visa and then you can extended your new visa. The problem with your story is that your wp was canceled and you did not leave the country. Whether you did this thinking you would get away with it or if you were misinformed may not matter.  The question is can you get them to stamp void on the visa without the stiff penalty. 

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote the is no legal way to fineed for a overstay that never occured.

Only if caught in the country with an extension that should of been canceled after the job ended could a person be fined for an overstay.

I am certain that people that have been fined after leaving the country and then returning did not get a overstay stamp or a receipt for the fine.

 

What i have seen is that a new extension will not be giving until there is a void stamp placed on the old b visa, even if it was with no reentry stamp. In order to get the void stamp he will need to pay for the overstay from the canceled wp date to him leaving the country, Which looks like around 6 months. I believe this is what the new HR is saying.

53 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

My post gave you info for that. As I wrote before you had an extension not a valid visa.

You cannot be legally be fined for an overstay since you had already left the country.

I really never want to disagree with Joe as I know you are very informed. However I have experience with this scenario. If his WP was canceled in sept 2018 and he stayed in Thailand until Feb 2019 there will be an overstay penalty even if he exited in Feb without a reentry. That is if he wants to get a new visa.  

You could have a problem, if your old employer only canceled your work permit and did not get a void stamp in your passport you overstayed your visa and I believe all the overstay penalties would apply.  

“I do yoga myself but I damn sure am not busting it out while waiting for my nuggets,” he added. ” CLASSIC! 

If your WP has been canceled and you plan to apply for another visa in the future you are currently costing yourself a 500 Baht a day fine.

When that MATENATE kid made some noise.

Well meetings may or may not having anything to do with AA. When the book was publish there was no such thing as an AA meeting. Yes there were nearly 100 people in 3 cities attending meetings that were not called AA. So when someone inquired about the book to learn how to stop drinking and get "recovered", they were instructed to do the first 11 steps and then go to into the their community to find someone who needed and wanted help. They were advised to go to hospitals and other places to find these drunks. Oh they did this because their life depended on it and the result was this became the highlight of their life. 

You get what you put it, and you have been bitching about AA for years and the result is your happiness. Its what you give not what you take. How about putting on "a new pair of glasses"

Your questions sure do make it look like you are in over your head. To have a WP you must work for a legal company who follows the law.

Not " doesnt care if these 4 Thai people are actually being paid or paying income/withholding tax or not"

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how the one stop does the 7 days. If it is stamped as 7 days to leave the country you could not apply for an extension.

The under consideration stamp allows you to stay until the extension is approved or the very rare occurrence of it being disapproved.

If your application is accepted there is about a 98% chance it will be approved. If not approved you would be granted 7 days to leave the country (no overstay).

 

If you apply for the 7 day extension you will have to leave the country, like mentioned you must get a new visa at CW the same day the old visa is void. 

can trasferwise be used to send money out of Thailand?

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

Perhaps we should consider kicking people out that are not working the steps.

Haha that is point, you can't!

The funny thing (or sad thing) is that many people are very quick to point out a tradition like it is a rule. So many people point to others when they are doing something "wrong". We call out people for not following the traditions. Can you image if we started doing this to with the steps. We would see someone angry, resentful or disturbed and we could start a tread how people are not doing the 4th or the 10th step, we can have long discussions how they are a faking it and not really "working" the program. Anyone who did any selfish or self-centered act we would call out say they are not going step 3. And the classic from the Seinfeld episode on step 9 when George was waiting from an amends from James Spade (who was going to AA) so George went to the AA meeting screaming "step skipper". 

7 minutes ago, Rugon said:

What's wrong with gamblers?

nothing, unless someone has a problem. The same with drinking!

19 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Exactly, groups need to be able to vote others out they feel are not real alcoholics.

 

Why don't you vote on ways that focus on our primary purpose and let the people who claim to be alcoholics and just decided to hang out in an AA meeting (just for the sake of it) sort itself out themselves (as it always does).   You are a member if you say you are a member, so if you are a drug addict, gambler, sex addict, bipolar, crackpot, etc, etc, etc and an ALCOHOLIC you are a member! 

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I understand what you mean.

I also don't want to be responsible for the newcomers death when the non-alcoholic tells them that they get on fine without working the steps. I did a workshop once with many Thai alcoholics where a lonely old guy, who wasn't an alcoholic, started telling them not to do the steps as he was sober 10 years, never had any character defects and the steps were for sick people.

I asked him to shut up, but couldn't kick him out as he said he had a desire to stop drinking, but certainly wasn't an alcoholic. I wonder how many he killed in his 10 years of going to meetings he didn't need but liked to go to and meet people with beautiful Thai wives.

Can you see my point?

I think the point is that we have to trust other members including the new people that they can see and hear crazy people just as you can. If we share a positive solution others and all AA principles they will be attracted to the message of recovery. Yes there are rare occasions that test tradition one so much that action may be required but it always needs to be done with love and tolerance (as this is our code).  

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What you've quoted is not tradition 3.

Perhaps the book that it is quoted from is labeled its chapters wrong, have a look.

https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_tradition3.pdf 

59 minutes ago, Rugon said:

No tradition says that. But one tradition(3) says there is a requirement for membership.

Here we go again, only knowing half of the truth is worse then not knowing at all. 

Attempting to use "parts" of the literature. Why don't you quote the full writing. Tradition 3 has a very painful history and in the end it was settled.

" We were resolved to admit nobody to A.A. but that hypothetical class of people we termed pure alcoholics." So beggars, tramps, asylum inmates, prisoners, queers ( old skool useage) plain crackpots, and fallen women were definitely out." 

The next paragraph delves into the fear - "isn't fear the true basis of intolerance? Yes, we were intolerant."

The modern outcome is " You are an AA member if you say so. You can declare yourself in; nobody can keep you out." 

Later in the chapter we read " Who dared to be judge, jury and executioner of his own sick brother?"