Jersey_UK

Ok.

She died last Saturday in Bumrugrad Hospital (ICU).

Funeral was a couple of days ago and she was the cremated.

Paper work to permit the above was all organised for me by Freinds / family - but at the moment I only have a PHOTOCOPY of her Death Certificate. (The original is off with her Thai family, doing something - I probably was told exactly what, but......).

What I was going to do was get her Death Certificate translated into English and then stamped by the Ministry, but without the original I can only get (and have already got today) a Translation stamped by the Translating company. I am sure I could get my hands on the original document, but to be honest I want to go home ASAP rather than hang around chasing paperwork that may not be needed or I could obtain at a later date direct from the Thai Govt.

I am not exactly sure what I am going to be doing with an English Translation of her Death Certificate at this present time (all the Thai legal stuff is done / getting done and of course is in Thai!) and in Jersey their was no requirement (or facility) to register our marriage (and we (me??? ) never quite got around to her SV) , so at the moment I do not need to prove that my wife is dead to anyone...........just thinking ahead, I can imagine their may be a need to explain what happened to da Missus or prove it..........

At last my question,........if I go home now, and say in 5 years time find I NEED an official record / evidence of her death (above a simple translation / photocopy), given that the Death has been formally recorded (their is a record / file number on the Death Cert), can this be obtained direct from the Thai Government / Amphur / Register of Deaths or whatever (i.e. without need to rely on a Thai Family who I will no longer be in contact with?).........obviously cost in the future would be a factor, but just to know if it is doable or do I HAVE to hang around here for a few more days........

Now in ICU.

B#llocks.

I spoke to the Hospital they say suspected Pneumonia (Sputum test results awaited back) - she is on Oxygen, can speak on the mobile (I didn't know she was in ICU hooked up to Oxygen when I rang this am)........but not coherent (in English) or strong enuf to speak much.

At the moment trying to find out how much more money the hospital needs / where to send it........

If only I was a drinking man............

On the 31st we should be a bit clearer

Famous last words ........Doc kept her in, now 2nd night (B5,600 a night) "Skin Yellow" and "have water inside" (I think water retention as she looks fat but is down to 37 Kilos (under 6 stone) - ok, her fighting weight (literally back in her day ) was around the Mid 40's, but still, 6 stone is not great .......I believe the Doc has taken her off the TB meds, but she is not entirely clear at the moment about events apart from "pay already 50,000B for something".....today she needed to pay over another B20k (for which their were Fun and games getting a translation of her Cousin's name into English for Western Union for this, and a chunk more "just in case" - her being a respectable Infant school teacher meant she did not have her name off pat in English already (like da Missus ).........and 3 guesses who spelt the name wrong ........it all takes time to sort out.....I should have tried the Credit card route at the outset, last thing I want to do is add money worries for her at the moment - but hindsight is wonderful (or a bit of foresight?!).

I reckon turning yellow sounds like Jaundice which I vaguely recall is liver related, so even if not actual jaundice it sounds like she has some liver problems............E-bay??

I have gotta get a hold of her Doctor in Thailand (today also involved Dead Brother discussions at the Mortuary in Jersey - still not sure why: "heart stopped" - I had figured that bit out myself - maybe another 6 weeks.......).......time slipped away today, but I figure whether I know exactly <deleted> is going on or not she is in the best place, in any event I reckon now is not the time to be going off for 2nd opinions - she needs treatment and I just have to trust in that she is in the right hands........

Not sure why I am posting bits and bobs as I go along - Do I feel better posting this? a bit. but not a lot..........."what does not kill ya, makes yer stronger".............

Visa? .........that has dissapeared way off the radar screen at the moment.........I maybe could have got her back (or at least tried for a SV earlier this year.........but their is "always time"......and a later SV application would have been better - mainly from my end)..........but I am kicking myself.

I should have got a 18 year old with low mileage

Managed to get to the PC today...........

See a pulmonologist with expertise in both TB and lung cancer.

Anyone have any ideas? Docs Name and Hospital in Thailand, preferably from direct experiance - and ideally someone who can communicate in English (for my benefit) - but knowing their onions is more important.

Altho in theory you can get a second opinion within the same hospital, in practice the second doc will likely feel more comfortable and better able to speak frankly if he's not on staff there so suggest she go to another hospital.

This would be my gut instinct as well - different hospital.........not to say I have any reason at the moment to want to move away from Bumrugrad (I appreciate that their probably are other hospitals / Doctors who can provide the same treatment at a cheaper cost, but the cost is quite manageable for me and she knows her way to / around Bumrugrad plus I think she beleives it is good, which I feel at the moment is also important for her).

Assuming the second opinion backs up the first and she's happy enough with her current doctor she can then go back to him for the rest of her treatment, and you'll both rest easier at night.

I would like to get the 2nd opinion (for the reasons you state) and then revert to Bumrugrad for the Treatment, I am guessing that this would be quite acceptable and not cause some afront / loss of face to the Doctor which may later impact on her?

think an very important point should be addressed. Those drugs can cause liver damage, liver failure, death....One should not just take those drugs and try to trudge through it like it is just part of the process. Granted to a degree one should "hang in there" but only with constant monitoring of liver function etc. Don't just pop the pills and "hang in there."

From my reading so far, I realise that TB meds are powerful stuff and not without side effects - and as I said previously I never got / took the chance to quiz the Doctor face to face about exactly what tests he had done (and what the results meant), what may be an idea to do and what her treatment and monitoring program would consist of going forward. On the 31st we should be a bit clearer, but in any case I think a good idea if I get on the Telephone to him and ask / clarify direct......which I have not done due to me assuming that until recently the Doc would just be saying "we are trying to find out".......

All things being equal and it is "only" TB (apologies to those with TB - but last week I would have been happy to take Crazy Chicken flu), I / we are still thinking of some sort of Sanitorium style care for the next 6 months (or longer), more for the predictable routine (at present she does not always know who is looking after her and when) and I think also important her having more people around her in a similar boat / always something going on as she is feeling kinda isolated even though someone is always with her 24/7.

Of course not impossible that I get off my backside and back to Thailand even if for only a week to 10 days, but timing wise I would choose not to do so before Xmas (but after then an extended visit for a few months or so) - unfortunately the practical does have to be considered even at times like these and it ain't always possible to be where one wants to be . and yeah, I do feel bad about leaving her "alone", even with certain family members and freinds (and a "maid" ) rallying around / getting paid to be with her 24/7, and with access to good medical treatment.......and despite me perhaps not being able to add much on the practical side, it is still where I would want to be out of pure choice........

"The TB meds are pretty harsh and vomiting in reaction to the meds is quite common. She has not mentioned Vomiting, more that the Meds (hopefully the Meds) seem to have knocked the sh#t out of her (my translation!).

Jersey, that is a very common response to TB meds. I have walked several close friends, relatives of friends etc through TB treatment and most of them felt that way, at least in the first few months. Things often improve around month 3 as one or more of the drugs (depending on the treatment regimen she is on) are then stopped. The important thing is to hang in there and keep taking the meds, no matter how awful they make her feel and despite the apparent lack of positive result (as mentioned, it takes months), taking heart from the fact that it is temporary and that the vast majority of people obtain a complete cure. One of the causes of drug resistant TB is people stopping meds because of the unpleasant effects.

That said, she should still see the doctor and have a blood count and blood chemistry (liver enzymes, kidney function tests etc) done to make sure that she is not experiencing any of the more serious side effects of the drugs. In particular I am concerned about anemia which is a known side effect of INH and would make her feel weak and washed out. There are things that can be done for this, so do have her see the doctor ASAP.

If her labs all come back normal then can stop worrying and just support her in toughing it out. If they show an abnormality the doctor will adjust her treatment accordingly.

Good luck.

For me it is kinda frustrating when a story stops half way, so a bit of an update.........as usual nothing straightforward (or clear cut)........

I got back to BKK on Saturday, she was already booked in to see the Doctor again (at Bumugrad) on the Monday.....using my extensive medical training (Holby City and ER ) I diagnosed her as: "not a well bunny" .

She stayed mainly in the Hotel (it was a toss up between the usual BKK Hotel vs her 1 roomed Apartment - but room service won, plus it meant she did not have to "worry" about looking after me) and spent most of her time sleeping or at least trying to (apart from Soap TV hour ).......did not eat much, and mainly from room service (not great food I will admit) but I also did food runs for her.

Sometimes she sounded like an 80 a day smoker, especially when sleeping and she tossed and turned in bed, whereas other times she was still and 100% silent........and I had to lean close over her to see she was still breathing.....at 3am she was not always asleep, so would then open her eyes - would have been scarey if I had not been quite so relieved.......

Monday came and into a taxi for Bumrugrad (my first time, very smart!) and not too much of wait for the Doctor, showed us her X rays......I ain't a Doctor, but even to me one of her lungs did not look very good and after chatting a bit about her past, the fact that she was 100% not very well, it was no great surprise that the Doctor said he wanted a Biopsy (??) done on her Lymph node. Come back Tomorow. I did not at that time ask too many questions, as we both knew that he was not looking to see if she had bunions and in any case we had time to ask further questions once they had the results. Some bridges are best left to be crossed only until one has to........

"have time"........of course once again I was wrong

Tuesday we hit Bumrugrad again, we both thought it would be under a General, but was only under a Local Anaesthetic - but nonetheless, I still got the experiance of sitting outside the Hospital smoking like a chimney whilst looking at her wedding ring on my small finger and wondering what the future would bring.........

Come back for the results on Thursday.

Tuesday night / Wednesday morning (1 am) I got a call from Jersey, Brother in Intensive care.......prognosis was - "if you were 10 minutes away now would still be a good time to come and visit him"...........<deleted>??? he was right as rain 5 days before........on the one hand I have a Missus who is very sick, and I (and she) figured was about to get some very sh#tty news in the next few days........and on the other hand I have a Brother in ICU not looking good..........no "Good" choice to be made.........but I decided to head home - the Missus understood, but still looked for reassurance that I was not also abandoning her (particularly given the medical bills I had paid and was about to).........a truly horrible feeling leaving her.

Travel plans never went badly wrong - just enuf to always make me late........in any event when I touched down in Jersey I was 4 hours too late , as signified by my Father waiting for me at the Airport.

43 years of age, no smoking, no drinking, fit and never been or wanted to visit Thailand

Anyway, it is what it is...........

For the Missus Thursday comes..........the answer as far as she is able to communicate to me is cancer, and they want to do another operation (under a General) to see how extensive.........this is the sort of stuff I wanted to be in Thailand for, apart from the moral / emotional / practical support - to get this sort of info from the Doctor direct and be able to ask questions.

Over the next few days we discussed quite a few things on the telephone and made some vague plans - but agreed I would stay in Jersey until the results of the next operation so we would be able to decide when I / we / she would do.

Last week she got the results "only TB"......I never thought I would be so happy she had TB .........but she is not totally beleiving the Doctor that nothing else is wrong and nor am I........would be nice to know from the horses mouth exactly what the thinking was with the Biopsy and follow up Op - I am conscious that Private Medicine is also a business, but at the moment I am assuming their is info I do not know............

She is back to the Doctor early next week, for another months supply of TB meds and a check up and she wants them to start to check her over for everything from A to Z.....to "make sure".......my thinking is see what Bumrugrad come up with (I am quite happy to pay for anything).......and then afterwards go and get a 2nd (and or 3rd?) opinion at somewhere like Bangkok Nursing Home or somewhere Private Thai.

My return to Thailand?? with the Cancer stuff it would have been next week for however long was needed, but now?......mmmmm - in an ideal world next week, but it is not an ideal world and instead difficult choices have to be made.....so I am staying here for the moment........but plans can be revised......

Anyway, am not online so much at the moment so may not be anything further from me for a few days or so.

I will note this date down. Thank you very much for all of your replies and suggestions which have been very useful for me. I'm sure I will be asking more questions in the near future

Srisuda & Simon

Congrats to u both!

So thats my story, I hope it reads better than "stupid fat tourist jumps off boat, swims five feet for an incredibly remote chance to find someone under the water and almost drowns in the process". After all, I have had ten years to work on the story.

Bl##dy hel_l, can't say I would have decided to jump in

Here is my "drowning story", not sure if I posted it here before.........

This post is way longer than I had intended. At the time (about 4/5 years ago) I assumed that it was a story that I would be retelling many times, especially down the pub.

But I now realise that although I told the tale briefly a few times verbally I haven’t done so very much at all, and not the complete story (as far as I am able), and strangely never on the Internet.......although I have nearly told it a few times and then just not done so, including last December when I wrote things out – at the time their was a long thread about something that (as always!) seemed important to many folk at the time – but I have long since forgotten what it was about.

Keeping “Juicy tales” to myself is not really like me – especially as the second half of the story is “classic Dave” down the pub stuff, but to tell this part I would need to get through the first part and until starting to write this I hadn’t realised quite how much this has still stuck with me, especially the feeling of horror at having failed..........it still scares me.

I am only telling this story because it just reinforces that the sea is ultimately in control and one small thing can lead into another and then another. And especially where YOU have a responsibility for someone else and that this DOES change how you react and when the other person is the weaker it could mean the end for both of you…………PLEASE no “discussions” about the rights and wrongs of the obvious stuff on Thailand – I could have lied about it, but it is an ingredient in how things went wrong.

About 4 / 5 years ago I agreed to meet a good mate of mine in the Philippines for a spot of Scuba Diving (in Subic Bay) – this was chosen cos he lived in NZ and it was therefore halfway between us, and it gave me yet another excuse to F#ck off to Thailand for a few beers etc enroute to the PI.

After a couple of days in BKK I decided that I would head off down to Phuket for a few days before flying out to the PI. Mainly for the “Nightlife”, but also to do a diving trip.

To cut a long (er!) story short, I ended up with a Thai lass and suggested that she may want to accompany me on a dive trip I had booked for the day. It was a 50 foot boat taking a trip out to some islands where they had some coral and the promise of maybe some sharks. The trip out was an hour or so each way, with the idea being that you get 2 dives at different spots. The usual tourist dive stuff.

Of course the Thai lass said she would like to come along, although she could not go for the actual dives.

Anyway the first dive went OK, saw some leopard sharks, nothing JAWS like -maybe a metre or two long (or so?!) and after an hour or so it was back onto the dive boat and then a half hour trip to another island for the 2nd dive. At this point I decided against making the 2nd dive because my ears were playing up (I’d had trouble equalising the pressure), maybe a cold, maybe too much booze from the night before – who knows – just that I decided that as I was off to the PI in a couple of days specifically to do some more diving that it would be kinda dumb to f#ck up my ears just for one more dive now. Especially as the diving itself was nothing special.

So the other Tourist folk all went diving. The Thai crew asked whether I wanted to go snorkelling instead. It seemed like a good idea (I wasn’t going to be getting a refund on the 2nd dive!), except that everything is more fun with company. So I asked the Thai lass whether she also wanted to go swimming / snorkelling. She said yes – no problem.

I will explain here that this dive site was near an island, however it was not one with gently sloping sandy beaches, but instead had tall cliffs. The part of the island I could see was about 3 or 4 miles long and just had the sheer cliffs - although the Thai crew said there were coral reefs around. Sort of like the “James Bond” island – but I don’t think it was. The weather was fairly hot and sunny, the sea state was perhaps best described as “a bit lumpy”, although no breaking waves and white horses it still had holes and troughs.

Anyway, because I had been “around the block” a bit in Thailand over the years – especially dealing with the Thai Gals I had (cough) not known for very long, I KNEW that in addition to the Thai (asian?) tendency to say yes to things even when yes is not always the most appropriate answer (a stereotype based on some truth) that the Gals “of short acquaintance” had this tendency in spades – when coupled with a language difficulty, this often led to “hilarious results”.

So I asked her a couple more times whether she was OK to jump in the water. To which the reply was along the lines of “no problem” and with a look of exasperation that said to me “are you slow of understanding?”. I will admit here that my concerns were not purely for her, it was also that I am not actually much of a swimmer (too many ciggies and I have never been very fit) and I did not want to have to worry about her. Although not much of a swimmer I have always been pretty comfortable in the water even if it is “just bobbing along” because I am knackered, as long as I either had a bit of extra buoyancy (in this case a wetsuit) or something that floats is within my range. It does not bother me whether the water is 10 foot deep in a swimming pool or 5 miles deep in the sea – I figure whatever it is I can’t stand up on the bottom!

Anyway, just before we jump in I look at her and ask again “you ok?” to which the reply is the affirmative.

We Jump in.

The boat buggers off (we were about 300 metres from the island) to go and hold station near where the divers will be / keep an eye out for them surfacing.

When I am in the water the holes in the sea seem somewhat bigger than from the dive boat – ie at the bottom of each hole you could not see the bottom of the cliffs – although of course you could not miss a 4 mile long island with sheer cliffs from 300 metres away!

I looked around and saw the Thai lass and knew immediately I was in trouble. She had wide open eyes looking at me, then looking around at the cliffs (they also looked bigger from this angle!) and out at the boat which was now quite a small object in the distance, which disappeared when we were at the bottom of each hole.

I asked “you ok”. She replied “cannot swim”. Basically she was doing doggy paddle on the spot. Badly. Fortunately she had a wetsuit on to provide some buoyancy,

The mind works quickly at moments like this. I knew that I could not support her, even if she did not panic. And I KNEW that if she panicked that she would probably drown.

I told her “no problem” and smiled reassuringly.

I thought about swimming for the boat, but figured it was too far for me, let alone her (I knew she had to stay with me, even if all I could do was stop her panicking). There was also no guarantee that the boat would stay where it was, especially as I was not sure where the Divers would be surfacing. Get it wrong by half a mile and I would be f#cked.

I thought of just staying put and floating around (as originally intended) but could see by the way she was keeping afloat that she was not used to doing this and would soon tire herself out, even without the energy being expended on being scared and stressed. I was also unsure when the boat would come back for us. 30 mins or 45 mins? What if they had a problem with a diver? Or the boat?

That left only the Island.

I tried looking for somewhere that had a rocky ledge or anywhere we could hang onto, but could not make anything out. I also could see that their was a current running around the island, maybe only a knot or two, but it was sweeping us around the island although not towards or away from it.

I reassured her again and indicated that she should swim for the island with me. She looked puzzled and unconvinced – not unreasonably! as she could SEE only the cliffs and no beach! – but did as she was asked.

I dunno whether it was 300 metres of only 200 metres by then – but it was enough time for me to start thinking that their HAD to be either an offshore shelf / reef that we could stand on or at least a ledge and that the current was no bad thing as it was taking us around the island so eventually their must be something! I also knew that 300 Metres was about the limit of my “puff”. I hoped hers went this far as well. She seemed to be using a bit of breast stroke now (at least with her arms), so I figured (and hoped) this had to be an improvement for her energy and “puff” wise.

When we arrived it WAS quite intimidating cos we were now in the shadow of the island, the action of the current and the water movement / swell made up for the lack of apparent wind so that the waters edge was not like at the edge of a swimming pool, rather the sea was surging into the rock face and breaking against the walls and then coming back in a confused state with plenty of spray.

Fortunately I saw a ledge ahead and shouted to her, she also saw it and understood what it meant. So we both put in a max effort to reach it before we were swept past. (actually “drifted past” would be more accurate, but we were both very tired by then)

We managed to grab gold of the ledge and haul ourselves up. I won’t say ashore - because the ledge was maybe a foot deep and a couple of feet wide and an irregular shape sloping downwards, and because the shape of the cliff face at this point was leaning outwards we could not really stand up straight or lean back against it to help with our balance. I should also mention that this ledge was not exactly above sea level more a case of sometimes being above, mostly being at foot level, but sometimes being above the knees, with some force when the swell surged up to the cliff.

To compound things the cliffs were covered in Barnacles / coral type stuff which cut our hands and feet every time we moved or grabbed hold of something to keep our balance. Not seriously slashed, but enough to know about and draw plenty of blood on our hands and feet.

Initial relief was (for me) replaced by a realisation that our position was quite precarious and it would only take one wave to catch us off guard to dislodge us.

At this point I am of course looking for anywhere better we could be on. It was quite a strange feeling really – looking back on it I was maybe in a bit of shock – but whatever, I remember thinking their HAS to be a way out of this, because their ALWAYS has been. It is just a matter of thinking it through logically. It just seemed completely unreal that it was happening to ME at that time. Kinda like watching a TV documentary “re-enactment” where you imagine yourself in the persons position and think about what YOU would have done differently, but KNOW that it isn’t actually happening to you, even though you can see through your “minds eye”.

Anyway, as I said, we were in the shadow of the Island. And being constantly soaked meant we were also getting cold. We were also starting to shiver. (I also realised that I had no ciggies. I could have murdered a fag right then – they help me think). Maybe the initial adrenaline rush had also worn off. I was also feeling very tired both physically and probably also from the stress of worrying about the Thai Lass.

Not only was it a Male protecting Female thing and the stronger protecting weaker, it was also the fact that I had got her into this mess – not only by asking her for the swim itself or even inviting her out for the boat trip, but also to be honest the fact she was with me from the night before was in reality 90% my decision and not entirely due to my boyish good looks, dazzling personality and 12 inch dong. As far as I was concerned this all meant it was up to me to get her out of this mess as it was 100% not of her own making.

I am not sure how long we were balancing on the ledge maybe 5 minutes?, maybe 20? Long enough to make the odd joke and reassure each other that it was going to be OK and agree that the boat would be coming back “soon” and we would just swim out to it. It wasn’t very comfortable and we could not relax as we had to keep an eye on the swell / wave and adjust our balance all the time accordingly, but it wasn’t too bad all things considered.

Then I lost my balance. I so very nearly regained it! In fact I would have if I had grabbed her arm, but it happened slowly enough that I had time to think that she would also be pulled off the ledge. So I slowly fell off.

No big worries, cos all I had to do was swim back a few yards and climb back up.

For some reason (Cold / tiredness and not being very fit) I just could not swim against the current. I realised that it was important for me not to use all my energy up trying to swim against the current. I guess inside of me I also understood that I was in a much worse position strength wise than I had been just 20 minutes ago, and that I did not exactly have a great excess of stamina and physical resources in the water at the best of times.

I tried to tell Thai lady to stay where she was and wait for the boat to come back. (not easy to do when you are tired and bobbing up and down in the middle of nowhere, and speaking only basic Thai and Pidgin English!).

No problem. I would just float away and be picked up later, and besides Thai Lady now had a bit more room on the ledge.

Of course she then also fell in.

By then I had drifted maybe 100 metres away, not along the cliff, but out to sea.

I f#ckin swam towards her like I have never tried to swim before. I also had to try and keep an eye on my bearings (remember that I am still moving up and down through the swell / holes in the sea – and one bit of cliff looks much like another). I stopped a couple of times to try and regain some strength but whenever I did so of course the current drifted me away from her. Despite my best efforts I probably only made half the distance before I was completely and utterly shattered. It was like one of those dreams where when running away from “something” your legs are moving in slow motion for no apparent reason despite your best efforts. I was just completely physically f#cked.

The worst thing was I knew that even though I was not exactly the fittest fella or much of a swimmer and that although I was going against the current that I SHOULD still have been able to get to her (although what I would then have been able to do is another question). It was “just” a result of the previous physical exertion.

But I just wasn’t able to get back to her.

And by this time I realised that I had not actually seen her for what seemed like a long time. 2 minutes? or 10 minutes? – I have no idea.

I thought she must have panicked and was now a gonna. A truly horrible feeling.

I stopped trying. Another truly horrible feeling. And let the current drift me away. It only took me a couple of minutes to drift a few more hundred metres back past where I had started. With me looking in vain for any sign of her.

Then I became aware that the boat was heading towards me. A couple of minutes later it was alongside, with the Thai crew obviously knowing something was wrong. I indicated that they should f#ck off and go and look for the Thai lady and pointed to where she had been and come and pick me up later. They got the idea quickly, but before heading off at full pelt they threw me a buoyancy aid.

It took me a couple of minutes of struggling to put it on. I was now very aware of how tired I was, both physically and mentally and I was also starting to feel the cold and it was great relief to have the additional buoyancy which meant that for the first time in what seemed like hours (of course it was not) that I could relax physically. Of course it also gave me time to think. Trying to replay events and not clearly and not pleasant.

I then realised that I had drifted well away from the island and that the boat was now maybe ½ km away, maybe more and had backed in fairly close to the Island. I couldn’t quite work out what was happening. The brief hope was that they must have found her (otherwise why would they gone in so close?) but this hope was immediately tempered by the knowledge that I had not seen her above the surface for a long time.

As I watched, I realised that in addition to having been taken by the current away from the Island, it had also been carrying me along it’s coast and that the Island was basically circular. Because the coast was all sheer cliffs with no easy reference points this had not been apparent to me before and I had just assumed that whenever I had looked at the Island I was always looking at roughly the same point. Although I had known that the current was previously taking us along the coast, when I became aware that the current was taking me offshore I had just assumed that one direction had simply replaced another. I.e. that instead of drifting East I was now drifting South. It had not occurred to me that I was infact doing both and drifting South–East. I DO know better than this, but it was tiredness and the fact that I could SEE that the Island was the same that gave me my false sense of location.

I quickly realised that this may mean that when I lost sight of Thai Gal that this was because she had managed to get back onto the ledge or at least hang onto it and that it was me who had drifted around a “corner” and out of sight without realising it because I had been unsighted when swimming and when in the troughs. It kinda started making sense, although I am not sure whether this was just a case of me trying to convince myself in order not to have to think about the other possibility any more.

It soon became apparent however that there were 2 persons in the water moving back to the boat. Obviously from this distance and still bobbing up and down (and without my glasses on) it was something that I could not quite believe I was seeing and I had to keep double checking just to make sure that what I saw was 2 people moving of their own accord. Not one person, with a body being hauled towards the boat.

To say I was relieved was an understatement.

I figured that maybe another 5 minutes they would come and pick me up. Of course they didn’t come and get me straight away, they went and picked up the Divers instead! Took them maybe another 20 minutes to get over to me!

What was I doing in the meantime? Well I started thinking about my predicament in more detail. The good news was that I was not about to drown (Buoyancy Aid) and was not about to get hypothermia (Wetsuit). The bad news was that I was starting to get a long way from the Island and I started to think “what if”…….what if they forget where I was? / can’t work out where I am? Or either they or another dive boat or fishing boat just run me down? I thought the odds of any of this were slim, but when bobbing around in the ocean you get a bit of time to think!

I also then became aware of my hands. Particularly the fact they were quite badly lacerated from the cliff face. I don’t know if any of you have had coral cuts before, but they contain some chemical, which means that they do not quickly stop bleeding. The cuts weren’t deep, just lots of them and bleeding steadily.

When you are pissing blood floating around in an ocean it is very hard not to think of sharks (thank-you JAWS and Mr Spielberg!). I then remembered that half an hour away from this area I had actually been diving with sharks! “Only” 1 to 2 metre Leopard sharks – but still sharks.

I was then trying to remember everything I knew about sharks (probably about the same as most people). The first was don’t panic, cos they can sense a fish in distress for how many miles? 1, 2 or was it 50 miles? Don’t panic is easy enough advice to give when you are not bobbing around in an area with sharks, dripping blood. I didn’t panic but I did wonder if they could also “sense” a slightly increased heart rate and a mild degree of concern. Just think happy thoughts.

The blood was a different matter, no amount of positive thinking was going to stop that. I put my hands on my head, and let it soak into my hair. It worked for about 2 minutes before my wet hair stopped being able to contain the blood flow. The downside to this was also when I didn’t occasionally use my hands to keep myself floating stably that I had to use my legs a lot. Thrashing around is also not good. Like a fish in distress? I didn’t know for sure, but it sounded about right. I decided that as the blood was now dripping into the water off my head anyway that I would be better with “just” the blood in the water instead of blood and thrashing my legs around.

There is also not a lot to look at when bobbing around in the ocean. In my case in addition to lots of sea around me and lots of sky above, I also had a boring island and a boat a long way away. However in addition to lots of sea around me, I realised that there was lots of sea below me. And being in the tropics meant that the view beneath the waves was a lot better than in the English Channel. I could not of course see the bottom, but I reckoned I could see a good 20 foot down and maybe to this depth in a 6 foot circle around me. It wasn’t sparkling crystal blue as it was too deep for that, more a case that 20 feet below you could clearly see a black void. I could also clearly see that my feet were bleeding in the same way as my hands. Wisps of blood were just continuously drifting away from my feet. Not only with the current, but down into the Black void.

I tried not to think about how long I had been dropping blood like that, how deep the trail (chum?!) had gone and what was down their. Obviously I failed to not think about it.

I then started thinking “what would I do if a shark appeared”. The answer was probably much the same as yours. Hope he was not hungry.

Would I be able to fight one off? And how? I could MAYBE get one lucky kick in, but should I start the aggression? When Scuba Diving they tell you that sharks are wary of man and that they only ever attack a human by accident or mistake or when somebody annoys one.

However I have never been able to get a satisfactory answer as to “what annoys a shark?”. Whilst hitting me with a stick would probably do the trick most times, on the whole it varies from day to day – for me some days are just better than others, for no apparent reason. Is it the same with sharks? Is lashing out at a Shark first something which warns him off or does he see it as a challenge?

Of course this is also a situation where size is important. I figured I would have a damned good go with just the one leopard shark, at least to make him think I was not worth the aggro, but I figured more than one then I was f#cked. Anything bigger would mean trouble too. Of course I had only seen leopard sharks the once and they didn’t seem to be exactly solitary things.

I decided it was best not to look down on the basis that their was little I could do about the situation, apart from give myself a heart attack (maybe no bad thing in the circumstances?) if I saw a large open mouth appear from below me a couple of seconds before it took my legs off. Best not to look. Think more happy thoughts.

Of course I kept f#cking looking!

2 minutes do not look…….. and then the urge to look and reassure myself that nothing IS there became just too much.

This probably does seem like a lot of thinking for only 20 minutes. It is. But it was a 20 minutes that slowed down as time went by. Anyone who doubts the thoughts that can through a mind in these circumstances is perfectly welcome to f#cking try it.

Of course the boat came back for me soon enough and everyone was happy – especially Thai Gal. Although we were both shivering on the deck, despite the sun and clothes. Cold, shock and relief. No cups of tea aboard!

Of course no idea whether she was still down in Phuket for the Tsunami..............

--------------------

"Satanic, Nazi, Vampire Nuns"; is it Art or........."Nunsploitation" ???

3) Religious or racial slurs, rude and degrading comments towards women, or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated."

So if I see a Nun Drowning I will be polite. and only put my foot on her head if she is Welsh, not Thai.

Just as well I cannot swim......it's complicated stuff

Thanks Sheryl, being stuck over here (until the end of the week) is really frustrating , albeit their is little I can do actually do in Thailand apart from try and understand <deleted> is going on and what the future entails..........

An Xray can strongly indicate TB but the definitive diagnosis is a positive sputum test, assume she had that (either sputum she coughed up or that they aspirated from her lungs).........I am certain a Sputum Test has been done, but I am going to make sure from the Doctor.

Treatment of TB requires at least 6 months and patients do not usually begin to feel better until months 2-3. In the meantime, they may actually feel worse due to the side effects of the medication. This is what I am hoping..........

However it is not usual for a patient -- especially one in whom the TB was apparently caught early -- to become weak or ill to the point of needing hospitalization unless there is something else going on, for example liver toxicity from the meds, exacerbating TB due to drug resistance, or perhaps an altogether unrelated problem. Your wife should go back to the doctor immediately to find out why she is feeling so much worse. A few basic blood tests (blood count, liver enzymes) are probably indicated. The wife is under standing instructions to visit the Doctor whenever she needs to. The "why?" is what I am worried about and will be quizzing the Doctor on what he has looked for and how, and probably getting a second opinion on as well as the actual diagnosis of TB.

Regarding the AIDs issue, unless your wife authorizes it the doctors may not be able to tell you her test results as HIV test results are confidential. (I am assuming they did an HIV test; they should have given presence of TB as well as history of drug use..but she would have had to consent to the test). You might want to go ahead in the meantime and get a test yourself just to be on the safe side. She is quite happy for me to know "everything" and I / we will ensure that the Testing has been done.

In summary -- she is unlikely to need long term care just for TB treatment, but it sounds like she may have something else or some complication going on at this time which needs to be diagnosed --- soon.......yeah, I would be very happy to come back from Thailand with a solid diagnosis and a treatment plan.

Cheers all for the kind words folks (and Links!).

My wife had TB and there are different strains. Most asians have a strain of TB laying dormant in their system which manifests if their immune system ever becomes compromised or of course you can catch it from somebody else. I am thinking (hoping?!) that her long time use of drugs did weaken her body (it certainly would not have improved it!) and that she then was more susceptible to catching TB from one of her patients (she was back working for a Thai NGO as an unqualified Health Care Assistant (my translation!) and amongst other things this involved visiting sick folk, including those with TB - and she has never been afraid to get close and hands on, unlike some of the Doctors............now of course she has stopped her job, which on the positive side means she is richer, cos' with a take home pay of only B2,900 and after expenses it was actually costing her money to work!).

Hiv goes hand in hand with TB and also Drug use can bring it on, especially smoking ice or yaba. You may want to check she really is EX - junky via urine test. - I had thought about this, and whilst I am 110% certain she is EX (and not purely out of blind Trust ), whilst I am in Town and doing the Hospital stuff anyway I will cross this possibilty off the list for sure

The TB meds are pretty harsh and vomiting in reaction to the meds is quite common. She has not mentioned Vomiting, more that the Meds (hopefully the Meds) seem to have knocked the sh#t out of her (my translation!). There is a very good med for the vomiting but I am not sure what its called. I think Sheryl is somewhat of a TB expert and I am sure she will give better advice soon. In most cases the TB is pretty obvious in an X-Ray as it shows up as as sort of round things and this is probably what the doctor could see in the X-ray. If X-ray does not show signs of obvious TB then other tests can be performed to check for it

BTW - I really feel for you and your wife, it broke my heart to see my wife suffering so badly and I am almost in tears thinking about it. being over here is real frustrating, on the telephone I know she is putting a bit of a brave face on things - as not much else one can do - and on the blower is not the same as in person when offering words of reassurance.............but next week??

I think the first thing you have to find out is if it is just TB, or Aids related TB, TB on itself can be treated quite well with Antbiotics etc... although it is rather a long course.

I am aware that TB goes with AIDS quite often - but TB goes on it's own as well.........I was quite relaxed about the HIV / AIDS stuff cos' she has been tested before a few times, until I found out that the previous TB testing / X rays did not say TB.......so I do want to hear from the Horses mouth at Bumrugrad that this is not somehow the case.

I know that there is at least one TV member that is a published author. There seems to be a lot of other members with a lot to say and desperate for the world to listen.

Have any of you guys thought about writing a book about your experiences here in LOS. Do you think it would get published?

Please reply in less tan 2,000 words

Yes - but I know my writing is not good enuf But Thailand related stuff is a genre that interests me.

But I do want to get into Publishing (for the simple reason that I beleive that Books have an inherent value which other mediums - including both sorts of TV - do not and never will share) - just looked up one of the Business Names I acquired for this purpose when I last looked at the idea, quite shocked to see the date 7 April 2006.........where does the time go?..........unfortunately time and money are nowhere in enough supply at the moment

Maybe next year

Long story short........

Around a month back I sent the Missus down to Bumrungrad for one of their all in 16000B check ups - with her giving a verbal medical history principally about being a Junkie and having had her lungs drained twice and that she had come up clear by X-rays for TB at least twice this year - last time in June for her job.

We later got a diagnosis from Bumrugrad Hospital of TB for the Missus

She started off on Meds for suspected TB (exactly what pills I dunno, but which made her feel better) but for the last few weeks she has been on Meds for TB.....but she is not feeling any better and possibly a bit worse I am hopeful that is just because the medicine for TB does this............and that in a few weeks or so she will start to feel better.

Last week she got a live in "maid" (non-medical) to do her laundry, shopping and cooking, but mainly making sure she does not lie dying in her Apartment (she collapsed around a month ago, fortunately downstairs in a public area) - Family would be the usual folk to help out here but she is not on close terms and she is somewhat short of freinds in recent years (she moved on - they not or are dead / in jail).

Am going back down to Thailand next week for a short trip (10 days)..........whilst I appreciate that she will not be "fixed" by the time I leave it would be nice to know about her options / what forward planning should be done, particulerly if things get worse when I am back here - be good to discuss things face to face in advance so she / we know what our options are. So ideas would be appreciated.

On the agenda at the moment is a joint trip back to Bumrugrad to find out from the horses mouth that the diagnosis is 100% TB and if so whether their are any underlying causes of the TB (I am assured not, but..........)........and also nice to know how this diagnosis was arrived at, whilst I doubt he has confused a broken leg with TB it would be nice to know it is TB rather than lung cancer or TB with complications.

Today she was worried that the Maid will not be enough to care for her and that maybe a stay in Hospital will be required - but is worried about the cost of 6 months in Bumrugrad (and me a little bit too! - but I never said that!).........Maybe she was just having a bad day - sounds like an 80 a day smoker on the phone , but got me to thinking.............I want to stick with Bumrugrad Hospital as much as I can on the diagnosis & treatment side (albeit a second opinion from somewhere like BNH is not out of the question £££ wise).....but if she needs long term care that somewhere cheaper would be better - on the basis that if she "Only" needs care rather than treatment an International Private Hospital is probably a bit OTT and we would be paying for access to services we will not need.

I am thinking private Santitorium (do they have these in Thailand?) rather than Hospital - but somewhere good not only Thai 30 Baht scheme, stacked 50 to a room...........or maybe keep the "Maid" and add a private Nurse visiting daily?......but getting a good one??? and what is a good one??!!.........do Bumrugrad folk do home visits?

Teaching Bashing?

Grrrrrrrrrrreat OK, here's my go

Nice to hear about an English teacher who can speak the local lingo..........I am always amazed that many teachers of English in Thailand do not consider being able to talk and explain to their students important if not essential to being a "good" Teacher.......strangely this attitude seems restricted to those who do not speak Thai

Can't say I would ever pay someone to learn Thai who could not also explain in English to me.......seems like a waste of my time and money. IMO No mutual communication skills is ok in a BG, but not with a Lawyer.

How was that?

A very poor effort, but considering that you don't know the difference between Bognor and Bangor not suprising.

"Bugger Bognor"

The rest of the world owes a big gigantic thank you to America for all of the breakthroughs in healthcare that come from our system.

Thankyou.

The Cheque is in the post

Teaching Bashing?

Grrrrrrrrrrreat OK, here's my go

Nice to hear about an English teacher who can speak the local lingo..........I am always amazed that many teachers of English in Thailand do not consider being able to talk and explain to their students important if not essential to being a "good" Teacher.......strangely this attitude seems restricted to those who do not speak Thai

Can't say I would ever pay someone to learn Thai who could not also explain in English to me.......seems like a waste of my time and money. IMO No mutual communication skills is ok in a BG, but not with a Lawyer.

How was that?

He has spent many years prowling the nightlife areas, gets to know lots of the Gals and their stories and whilst he likes most of them he is well aware of his status as a customer - but is happy to play the game safe in the knowledge that he is never going to fall for a BG, after all they are great drinking buddies in a Bar but it is simply incomprehensible to him that any sane man would want to marry a hooker ......and he finds it amusing when others do fall hook line and sinker for a BG especially after a 2 week holiday or when he is with her in a ST hotel......and loves to swap stories with Farang and BG alike about idiot Farangs on holiday.

And then one day he realises that he has fallen for a woman who works in a Bar, not quite sure how it has happened - but not to worry she is not just a hooker and in any case he has been around long enough to know what he is doing, unlike the other Farangs. and in any case he long ago stopped caring what others think.

He is Mr "Mine is Different" Farang

Isn't it smug to contemplate your free health care, which you had to do absolutely nothing for.In my country(USA) this is not available,even for us who did military service.

I think this says more about Education than the Health Care system...........

Yeah, well, let's face it -- if most of us were born in Thailand instead of in our respective countries, how well would we do? In farangland, it's easy to live off the "fat of the land" -- there is so much, if you make a modicum of effort, you'll do ok. If you come from a country with any kind of social security, by doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you are already better off than most of the world's population, and things can only improve if you work, invest, are clever. It's much harder to succeed in a poor country with little infrastructure, bad education, corruption, etc.

I drive on safe roads that I've never built, I have free medical care that I've never fought for, I can vote, get abortions, go to good schools, I have political and personal rights, there's currently no war in my backyard -- really, none of these have anything to do with my personal merits.

Not to take away from anyone's success, but I have no illusions that so much of what I have is simply by virtue of winning a genetic lottery this time around. I don't blame people for thinking this is unfair -- it is. Of course, people improve or worsen their situation by working hard, being smart, being strategic, innovative -- whatever, but this is ever so easier if you're starting with five million dollars, figuratively speaking, than with five cents.

I do struggle personally with the concept of "fair" and "unfair" and also with "right and wrong" (and now and again with "Left and Right" )........but I accept your point that the reason I am sitting here in Farangland typing into cyberspace and not digging a ditch or greasing a pole in Thailand is mainly down to chance as to where I popped out the womb

But my forefathers fought (and died) for what I now enjoy, and woe betide anyone or Govt who tries to take away from me and mine..........but that is another thread

Although you may not have paid your CAD5 / USD4 ( ) Million in advance, on average folk will end up paying......I am personally happy to pay (albeit not when I am physically writing the cheques ) cos' someone paid for me I am happy to pay for someone else.

Of course even in farangland views vary.

It's not about feeling guilty, guilt doesn't help anyone. But I can't help but think that farang in Thailand could benefit from adopting, perhaps not a noblesse oblige attitude, but at least a certain graciousness, compassion and generosity that befits those more fortunate.

Yeah, I think it is called being civilised - but possibly a concept whose meaning is becoming less well understood.......plus of course giving the Farang lower orders passports ..........rather than a Bayonet and a Burial in the corner of a Foreign Field as per Temps Passé

I'm going to be out of town on business for 1 week and feel nervous to leave him in Bangkok alone,....he loves to party and go to bars

I like to go to bars also. and am happily married. Maybe I could Chaperone him?

It's not cheating if you have only a hazy recollection

The proportion of muslims i n the German population is as great as in the UK population - they are from Turkey, the Balkans, Afghanistan and so on, whereas a large proportion of the UK muslims are from the Indian sub-continent.

In Germany they do not stand out from the rest of the population so much

Perhaps understandable in a country with a record of sticking folk who do stand out onto Trains heading East ........as a visible immigrant it would make even me think twice before trying to impose my beliefs on the locals...........

I've heard that foreigners can get jobs as supervisors easily in the construction business, but never seen any proof.

Foreigners in Thailand would feel a LOT safer knowing that a farang had at least overlooked the building process I can imagine.

Anyone know if this is true or not?

not really, more often than not the farang supervisor will be stuck in the office or selling to new clients.

I know zip about being a Sparks in Thailand - but I would guess you would never be able / want to compete with a local wages wise, even if your work was better.............which would I think force you higher up the food chain into a managerial / supervisor / quality control (innovation?)..........or ownership role.

Good quality tradesmen outta work in farangland? methinks not. In times of need they can sometimes even throw in reliable

I think their is often a feeling that it is unfair that a farang can have more money than them for doing so little except being Farang (no matter how nice / stupid / clever / clean! he or she is) - even for those who do realise that Mr Rich Tourist only appears rich in Thailand and back home is a peasant........

My proof?.........IME a Thai does tend to enjoy a Farang landing on his (or her) a#se......a bit TOO much........kinda like the Canadians and the Yanks (before the Yanks became the poorer of the 2 ).

But if it is the case of "Just" getting a degree then IMO a University in Thailand is the same same as a degree from Bognor (or Birmingham?) University.........in my experiance any degree shows that a person is capable of some learning, but does not mean they are capable in the work place - but in practice a degree does tend to let folk in the door to be given the chance to prove themselves. Think of it as a glorified reference.

Didn't realise that there was a Bognor University, maybe you meant Bangor? Anyway, what's wrong with Birmingham University? I think that you will find that it is a well respected University. Bangor, from my understanding is another well respected University in the UK, and certainly couldn't be compared to some of the Universities in Thailand.

According to recent Rankings it is at 92, whereas I fail to see any Thai Universities including Chula or Thammaset on the sjtu list, which from my understanding is a well established and credible source. I think to compare some of the universities in Thailand with an established red brick university in the UK is pushing it a little. Birmingham in other rankings is still rated higher than the two top Thai universities.

http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/ranking.htm

Sorry, had to defend Birmingham on this one.

Their MBA is ranked quite well in the UK as well I beleive.

Never mind Jersey - he knows not of what he speaks

mmmmm, I don't recall ever mentioning MBA's........and BTW the reference to Bognor Regis (part of the English Riviera ) was half a joke. Well, a couple of days ago it was.

Usually gang violence 100 thai chicken shits vs 1 farang.

IMO nothing "chicken sh#t" about it at all..........just sensible.