JayBird

It always amazes me, why anyone would want to live in a shoe box condo ,with perhaps a good view ,over a large house with garden 3 bedrooms ,and parking for 3 to 4 cars each to his own I suppose ,mind you if I was a single guy living alone I suppose it would be better

Some people might have multiple houses/condo (maybe that small condo in BKK or Pattaya is a place they spend a few months a year only). I could imagine a couple living in BKK in a small condo but in a good location, yet the Thai Girl would have the 'family home' up country to go to (and keep his stuff) and the Foreign husband might still have his house in the UK. In which case it isn't so bad.

I've also peeked into a few condos where Thais are living, and they really *REALLY* cram their stuff in there. Floor to ceiling with storage boxes, clothes hanging everywhere, cushions all over the floor. I had maint. crew come into my condo once and he was shocked it was so 'open' and not cluttered

Protein Powders: If you aren't lifting or exercising, you probably don't need it and may (should) consume enough protein from just normal foods.

If on the other hand you are weight lifting / bodybuilding, then yes, protein powders are very useful. Partly to get enough protein in you without exceeding your caloric intake for the day, and partly for timing. You basically want your Whey protein immediately after work out, followed by Casein when you go to sleep (as you are still building muscle while sleeping -- that's when muscle build occurs, not when you're lifting iron -- that's when muscle tear down occurs)

I purchase most of my protein from, believe it or not, moxy in Thailand. They seem to get a lot of their stuff from BP Muscle in Thailand (which I sometimes buy from directly), however Moxy keeps sending me coupon codes for 20% off. They have a wide variety of brands, including Universal / Animal Whey. I run a full Animal Stak and purchase my stuff from them (or BP Muscle). Although I plan to buy a bulk of Animal Supplements next time I'm in Europe and bring it back with me, much cheaper.

How is your water bill 1,500 baht a month? How much do you pay per unit? If you pay 20 baht per unit that's 75 cubic metres per month.

Either your cost per unit is extremely high or you are using 75,000 litres of water a month. That's about 2 large tanker lorries worth.

I'll check the cost next time, I'm not really sure what the unit price is But I do run the laundry machine every other day or so and take lots of showers, so I expect it does add up. Plus my GF takes at least 2-3 showers a day as well (she works out daily)

Very useful, JayBird, thanks for posting. I am wondering though about health insurance which seems to be mandatory in this country especially for foreigners. I know you work out but that's not quite insurance against the proverbial rogue bus.

I didn't include costs of Health Insurance (almost pointless as it will be different for everyone). But I would check with the online free quote places, and BUPA to get an 'estimate' of the upper bound you will pay.

Then you can start doing some bargaining. I got a 10% discount for paying yearly, and a 10% discount for getting a policy for me and my GF at the same time. I also opted out of out-patient (doctor fees are cheap enough if you only need to see once a year or so). I had no priors and am in perfect help, so opted only for coverage in case that baht bus hits me

Btw, I *DO* recommend you get HIGH coverage (5M per incident up to 20M/year). Despite the lower medical bills here, it can end up costly if you get a bad accident and end up in ICU. A lot of policies (esp. thai ones) seem to cover only 300k o.o

Who intentionally raises young kids in Pattaya? Lots of people. It seems too many TV posters seem to think that everyone is here in Pattaya to park themselves on a bar stool every evening, drink themselves silly, and maybe bring a working girl home. Yes, some are doing that but it's not a large percentage of the overall population--it's just very visible on certain streets, which can easily be avoided. The number of Western men riding a bar stool nightly is probably not growing, or at least not growing as fast as other groups. So, some of the bars maybe seem not quite as lively and you get the ridiculous 'Pattaya is Dead' thread when it has never been more alive, growing, and evolving. You're seeing more tourists arrive as families--and not just in tour groups. Chinese and Russians but others, as well.. Lots more Bangkok people are coming to their Pattaya condos on weekends with their families and friends--expect to see that even more when The Base opens as it was marketed to BKK yuppies. And there's always been the maybe invisible to some but still very much there expat families. Of course, there will likely always be an adult entertainment component to Pattaya, just as there will always be a gambling component to Las Vegas, and for both cities they are important. But, also for both cities, you can raise young kids and not set foot in a casino or an adult bar. Much as some of you like to think that Pattaya is all just about you, sadly, it is not.

For what it's worth, I spent a few weeks in Pattaya and completely avoided the 'Scene' and still had an enjoyable time:

-- Skip Soi 6, 6/1 (the latter as a general rule)

-- Skip Soi Diana (Where there is a corner full of gogos)

-- Skip for the most part the beer bars adjacent to Central Festival

-- Skip most (but not all) of walking street

-- Skip out some of the beer bar complexes

(Put another way, if you do not explicitly walk into a Go-Go, and do walk around with your GF clinging to you, no other girl will bother you unless you approach them)

That still leaves a *VERY* large city (Pattaya is one of the largest cities in Thailand), and lots of entertainment options:

-- Pool halls

-- Beer Bars with live music (go there with your GF and none of the girls will bother you)

-- Great live music in bars in Walking Street (don't go into anything whose inside is not visible from the street and you'll have a grand old time)

-- Endless restaurants

-- Lots of shopping options / malls which are obviously not part of the scene

-- Go karts, beaches, swimming pools, cinemas, bowling, karaoke (sadly Thai only!)

And once you leave Central Pattaya (dark side, jomtien, nakula) you would hardly know there was a scene going on unless you were looking for it.

Now, back on topic:

ddproperty has a good search engine

google pattaya condos and find out the engine of the week

The smart person will find *where* they want to live in Pattaya first, walk around, and look at condos in that area -- chances are high there's a unit available (if you do not want to live on the hill, why search condos in that area for example).

The really smart person will make sure the condo is built and managed by a compotent team (its one thing to build a condo, its another thing to manage it, and if they do not manage it well you will end up fleeing the place... by managing I mean: Do they spray for bugs or are you okey with roaches? Do they clean the pool, gardens, etc. For example, *EVERY* morning I see them cleaning the pool for 1-2 hours in my BKK condo, and see 5 security guards on duty all the time).

And the really really smart person will think twice about buying a condo here for investment purposes (there are *SO* many people doing it, including those who have been doing it a long time and are physically here all the time to keep an eye on their property). Can you compete with them?

Of course, if you plan to buy the condo to live in it's different approach than buying one to rent out. You may actually want to look at condos that do NOT advertise: Guarananteed 7% return! (as that translates to : You'll have new neighbours every other week, possibly un-nice, un-friendly, who abuse the facilities as its a hotel and they don't care).

For those who suggest to rent: Buying is a viable option if you factor in no appreciation in property values and look at it as purely a diversification of your portfolio with a currency rate hedge. I.e, if a 3M THB condo was being rented out at 17,500 THB that would be a 7% per year cost. So you could buy the 3M THB condo, avoid paying the 17,500 THB and in essence be 'earning' a 7% return on your investment (withou currency risk) but also unlikely to have capital appreciation. Even if you factor in deprecation, you could still be getting a 5% return on invesment, which is good (as part of a diversified portfolio of course).

The follow up question would be, regardless of speed mentioned, what's the actual speed once exiting Thailand. I notice I get good speed when I speedtest anything in Thailand, but trying to reach US/UK servers it drops... significantly.

Do all TelCos use a same shared line for exiting Thailand to reach the main global hubs?

Jaybird from just reading between the lines from your posts I feel you are asking the wrong forum for help.

You appear to be a young health orientated guy. With lots of income. One who likes good wines and perhaps the arts.

Most guys in this forum probably donot travel in the circles you are accustom too.Difficult to assist.

The lifestyle you lead is rare. And to be honest sounds likeyou will only be in Thailand 4 to 6 months a year hardly retired, just more of one residence out of many.

My suggestion to start is Pattaya. Get a rental with every thing you want. you will just have to learn to live for a few months a year in a place with no real culture stimulations, Just raw entertainment and beachs. Donot expect good wines and fine dining. You will have to be happy with mediocure at best.

Your best bet is Singapore.

Thank for your suggestion. I'm starting to think you may be right. (And I do nip to Singapore for a couple weeks every year as well). I'll look more into Udon Thani as others have suggested. Maybe its not as dull as I thought, however Hua Hin definitely appears to be *quiet*.

The plus side of Pattaya is its closer to BKK for International Flights (I believe everywhere else has to fly to BKK before flying to Europe/etc.)

Perhaps 'Retired' is the wrong word? I'm not 'working for a company' so I'm a free agent. (I did not want to say jettsetting playboy )

Oh well, time to dig more into Udon Thani and Pattaya. Thank you all for your feedback!

Why so many showers? 2 times a day is enough.

My gym is a 5min walk so I come home to shower, and I workout twice a day. So two showers JUST from working out, plus 1-2 if I actually go out for something other than a work out

This of course does not help the water/electric bill as I have my own laundry machine and tend to run it every other day

4k a week for food? Seems high. I spend 10k a month for family of 5, and that includes soap, garbage bags, etc.

Is there a fair bit of foreign food in there? As well as meat? Maybe I just eat a lot But I also chow down on Lindt choccies and that's a good 100thb/day a day alone O.o Plus Apples, and brazil nuts (not cheap).

FBT is a big sports store and a gym on Ramkhamheang. I am surprised you never heard of it.

My comment was really about the rent. I think you are overpaying for 50 sqm in that area especially if you are not using the facilities.

Oh yes, the sports complex next to the university. Sorry, forgot its name I've been there a few times, not really what I need (they don't stock any real supplements, nor have much in the way for bodybuilding (no weighted vests for example), and I already have all the sports clothes I need). But it works in a pinch if you need to pick up some gloves or something.

Perhaps I am overpaying, the searches I could do suggest its fair, but after a few more on-the-foot explorations I start to wonder if I should have lived nearer The Mall Bangkapi for less and better facilities. Other bigger places for the same price would have me further out (Bang Na or far from the BTS/etc.)

my guess is that you wont end up "retiring" here at all

you seem to be in the same situation i was in. traveling around every 3 months is in fact preferable at your age then digging in would be imo

so you just visit a new location every 3 months, call it "home" and move on

youll probably be drawn back to certain places for whatever reason, cost of living or a girl you know, whatever. most people end up staying in fewer locations as they get older.

it is easy to get lazy and just sit in bkk. had a neighbor who was in the same flat for 15 years before going back to belgium. i really had to pull myself out of bkk, did not like it, but its easy to just sit there and watch the time fly by sleeping days and partying at night.

had another neighbor who was into whoring and i left to travel the world, i returned about two years later (i stay in the same building each time), he was still sitting there like it was yesterday, single, getting older and whoring. man, kind of depressing really.

he also had not shaved or waxed his back hair since when i left and it looked like a rug. bizarre, given all the spa services around.

Heh, hopefully that doesn't become me. I don't really party or go drinking in bars. I enjoy fine wine, but I save that for when I'm in France ( I spend about 3 months/year there as well).

I plan to keep myself busy with private projects so I should hopefully not waste away

Bangkok is what you make of it. I have lived like the OP ( even with trips to villa market) and I live like I currently live with 120,000 baht/month rent which I wouldn't recommend for anyone.

Regardless of your income. I'd be happy to have never rented the unit but that's just one of those things I hopefully laugh about when I get old..

Anytime I eyeball a condo for 50M+ or rented out for 90k+/mo, I'm thinking somewhere in the back of my head:

These guys are specifically targeting foreigners (2 years ago, probably Russians) who have an abundance of money and can be easily taken for a ride. That alone is the reason I avoid them (it's not the money, it's the idea of someone laughing as they take advantage of me).

Obviously exceptions (huge size, ideal location, amazing facilities and services). My general rule of thumb is to compare it to what I paid in San Francisco, Zurich or Singapore: If it's more, here, there might be something wrong

Hopefully you are getting your money's worth!

You are paying 20,000 a month in a "new, well managed building" in the middle of nowhere and you are also paying for a gym membership?

Where are you renting? The base or Chewathai?

Did I see you at FBT?

I do not understand 'FBT'

I think you are suggesting that the Gym Membership fee I pay is due to a shortcoming in facilities at the my building? Well that may be the case, but I have never seen a Condo or Hotel with enough Gym equipment for me. (I'm not just doing a bit of running and lifting a dumbbell, I need a wider assortment of equipment at high weights as I'm on a specific bodybuilding regiment). If your needs are not that specific, then the Condo gym might be sufficient for you. (I see lots of Thai guys in my condo gym lifting weights, but the dumbbells only go up to about 25kg and the smith only about 200kg).

'In the middle of nowhere' may be an exaggeration, but I get your point: Yes it is definitely not in the heat of the action. And obviously if you do need to be right at the foot of it all you need to tailor your location accordingly. For me, I don't go clubbing or bar hopping, and spend most of my time in the Gym or working in home. And having access to Siam area in 30 mins or less is sufficient for me and might be for others as well.

Each of course to their own But I think the list I gave does serve as a good template if one does not have any specific needs. Then of course you must tailor to suit your needs

For healthy eating I usually go for Chicken Breast and Veggies. Steam cook the veggies, mix with a bit of low-sodium seasoning. Boil the chicken, chop it up mix it together. A sort of Asian/thai/Chinese/whatever dish, but good on protein and vegetable content.

For a bit of American cuisine, I often go with a slice of whole wheat bread and a bit of peanut butter spread across it (source of protein, omega, wheat, fibre). As well as going with whole grain cereal (imported from Germany or the UK) with Meiji Milk 0%

I buy my Chicken either from Food Land or HomeFresh. I do NOT buy it from Big C which seems to be very bad and yucky. I once microwaved a bit of chicken left overs and it *exploded* (due to high water content). Not had that problem with FoodLand/HomeFresh.

If you are worried about pesticides/etc, you could buy canned/frozen vegetables that are imported. Might be a bit safer.

There are a LOT of Rich Thais out there. And a lot happy to pay 2k/3k/mo. There are a lot of poorer thais, so much so that the average comes down (simple mathematics).

There are also lots of good gyms that can be had for less. They just may not publish in English or geared towards foreigner but that doesn't make them any worse. After all, all these Muay Thai fighters have to train somewhere

I think they are known as Swamp Coolers. The idea being that spraying cold water into the room should help cool you off and not harm humidity. Only heard of them used in desert like environments (I've seen them in California a bit)

As has been explained to me by a Thai person:

Cars don't stop for people, its your responsibility to stop for them or get out of their way. Doesn't really have anything to do with being nice or caring, just 'the way it always has been'. From a certain point of view it makes a bit of sense (people are more agile so they can stop and not cross quickly, or suddenly cross faster, whereas cars can not really do this as it could cause an accident).

Although the Thai people have explained that motorbikes going the wrong way on the sidewalk is not very nice .

I'm less worried about the cars/zebra crossing, more concerned about the motorbike that comes off the road to go on the sidewalk behind me, so he can go onto the next road against traffic to a soi 50m down.

Ah, Bangkok, where European driving rules is something that they might of heard on TV once.. maybe....

People are more agile than a several thousand pound vehicle traveling at speed? That is precisely the reason that most western countries where I have lived give the priority to the pedestrian. When a car hits a pedestrian, guess who always looses?

Your agility argument is a real stretch if you are including older people, and heaven help the handicapped here, or a mother, father or family with youngsters trying to get across the street.

IMO this pretty much defines a modern society vs. one who puts little or no value on human life.

I don't really place blame here other than thinking it is how people are raised and just do not know any better. It reminds me a bit of when I swim laps at the pool and teenagers and young adults show up and seem to be unaware that politeness says you avoid or give way to that person who is already swimming in that lane.

I said it made a 'bit' of sense, not that it was a good perspective Yes, a health individual can go from walking pace to full stop instantly, whereas a car can not. And that same individual can go from walk to run almost instantly, whereas a car would have more difficulty to do so. And it is often easier for a healthy individual to clear the 3' needed to survive

Where of course it makes no sense is if you are not healthy, or fully paying attention, or despite your best attempts you get hit (and yes of course you take the brunt of the damage). I never said it was a good idea, but that seems to be the mentality here.

I'm much happier pedestrian wise in Germany where the cars actually stop if you are within a foot of the zebra on the off chance you might want to cross

try chiang mai

good balance between malls and walkable nature areas, food is good too

The OP says he needs clean air, no pollution.

Hardly Chiang Mai then.

Chiang Rai. No pollution, and few farangs .

I'm okey with Foreigners (not looking to get fully embedded and go native): I can take it or leave it either way. (I only get annoyed when Thai people will not serve me spicy food because I look foreign... I can handle my Som Tom spicier than they can!)

I looked up Chiang Rai. It looks like a very nice, peaceful, quiet place with lots of nature and museums. I might last 3 weeks before I die of boredom But I'll definitely put it on my list of places to check out first! Thank you.

I know about Chiang Mai, and have it on reliable sources that the pollution there can get awfully bad, which is why I didn't put it on my list.

OP: I would suggest that Pattaya is the best place for you to start. Acceptable and inexpensive gyms such as Tony's, plenty of restaurants and places you can go for walking; and the shopping is good enough.

Other amenities in Pattaya include decent hospitals etc

Can use your time in Pattaya to travel to other areas in Thailand to see if anywhere else preferable.

U mention "retirement" but u are not old enough for that Visa so u need to work out your visa status to stay here long time.

Sadly no retirement visa for me, but I will do trips every 2-3 months to Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, etc. Grab a 2-month visa and return. Also plan to spend 3-4 months in Europe (I have a house there so I like to visit it). I'm Canadian/G7 so its pretty easy for me to get the 60-day visa. (I thought about getting the PE/Thai Elite Visa, but for 100k/year I could do that *OR* spend it travelling around south east asia.. for the moment I choose the latter).

Yes, right now I'm leaning towards Pattaya (and the convenience of 24-hour food, walking, shops, is great). I'm actually focused on Central Pattaya vs. Jomtien or North Pattaya (specifically between Beach Road, North, South, and Sukhumuvit).

I'll just add my two-bits here (mostly through Thai Translation from Thai people):

1) There are plenty of jobs around. However, they only pay 9k/mo on average (BigC, 7/11, MK, etc. are always hiring). If you are lucky you can grab a 12k/mo job.

2) Most of the higher paying jobs require a degree (often any degree), and a lot of Thais and poor Thais do not have degrees, so can only get the 7k/mo job.

3) The thai girls who work bar/etc. are greedy (or their families are greedy). They want an iPhone, they want a Car, they want all that everyone else has. You can't get that with a 7k/mo salary.

4) When they get old, they seem to go work at massage shops (normal massage shops as they get older). Thai GF translated private conversations she had with many Thai masseuses (legitimate ones) who said they used to work bar and switched as they got older. My own conversations with these masseuses confirm that they are still looking for a Farlang husband (and sadly, one of my favourites found one and I lost out on a good deep tissue massage!!!!)

Personally, I don't feel bad for the girls who work bar, they HAVE options, they just choose to do what they do. I remember one older Thai mama-san who told me the girls want to work bar rather than work in office (even ones who have degree) because is easier to shake their bottom and make money than to work in office.

My one little bit of advice to all non-Thais: The Thai socio-economic-family structure is very odd and different from western, or indeed Buddhist ways. A lot of digging will reveal a world that you would not realize as a pure tourist.

As has been explained to me by a Thai person:

Cars don't stop for people, its your responsibility to stop for them or get out of their way. Doesn't really have anything to do with being nice or caring, just 'the way it always has been'. From a certain point of view it makes a bit of sense (people are more agile so they can stop and not cross quickly, or suddenly cross faster, whereas cars can not really do this as it could cause an accident).

Although the Thai people have explained that motorbikes going the wrong way on the sidewalk is not very nice .

I'm less worried about the cars/zebra crossing, more concerned about the motorbike that comes off the road to go on the sidewalk behind me, so he can go onto the next road against traffic to a soi 50m down.

Ah, Bangkok, where European driving rules is something that they might of heard on TV once.. maybe....

Hello all, just throwing this out there in case anyone is curious:

Two people can live comfortably for about 60,000 THB/mo, with breakdown as follows:

Rent:

20,000 / mo (I rent a 2 bedroom 50sqm condo about 10 min walk from Airport Link). Brand new building, well managed. I converted the second bedroom into an office space, so can work during the day with a view (not great, but better than a cubicle)

Utilities:

Electricity: 2.5k/mo (I got 3-air cons, and 3 computers to keep cool).

Water: 1.5k/mo (I shower 4+ times a day)

Internet/TV: 900/mo (basic channels, True internet. I never watch TV, and stream Netflix as needed)

Mobile: 300/mo for True.

Food:

About 4k/week for groceries. I do most of my shopping at FreshMart/FoodLand and still have a lot of non-thai foodstuff (Lindt/Kinder chocolate, Cereal), but avoid the really costly stuff (no cheese or imported steaks). Lots of fresh vegs and chicken, as well as ground beef (local). (Good enough to make burgers or sloppy joes with)

Note: I don't drink alcohol, so save a lot of money from that.

Boots:

About 4k/mo for shampoo, toothpaste, Listerine, shaving cream, etc. (This stuff adds up!)

Hobbies:

Gym Membership: About 1.5k/mo

Vitamins/Protein Powder/Supplements (US Import): About 6k/mo

Eating-Out:

Eat out about once a week, roughly 1.5k/week (usually a good Thai restaurant in one of the bigger malls, and some awesome desert... Honey Toast... must have...) So about 6k/mo for that.

Misc:

A few hundred baht here and there for taxis, BTS/etc.

So, it is possible to have a pretty pleasant life style for about 60k/mo (this is for 2 people in a 2 bedroom flat).

If you wanted a 1bedroom/studio could save 10k/mo on that (next door to me is about 10k/mo, brand new as well).

If you didn't need foreign food/chocolate/protein powder/supplements, could save another 10k/mo there.

So quite possible to be happy on 40kTHB/mo (800 GBP/mo). You could go even lower, but (in my opinion) you might compromise on enjoying life in order to save a penny.

Note: I notice a lot of posts and web sites talking about condos being 30k/mo, 40k/mo or even 60k/mo. Unless you have a real specific reason to be in that type of a condo or high-cost location (Pathum Wan?), you could easily avoid the rent there and still have a good place. Where I am (Ramkhamhaeng) is only 20k/mo, but big and within walking distance of Airport Link, FoodLand, Mall, FreshMart, BigC. 60THB taxi to a Big Mall with all of life's needs, or 80 THB taxi to Paragon when no traffic (good luck if there's traffic!). And on the plus side, all the grocery stores here stock beef.

Hopefully this is of some interest or help to others.

Thank you.

Hello everyone,

I'm a long time lurker, and first time poster. Please be kind I've spent a while reading the literally invaluable information on this site and truly appreciate all the valuable advise and info the members give here. That's why I decided to post my question here to see if someone has a suggestion for me

About me: I've been visiting Thailand back and forth for about 6 years, 1-2 months each time, and I do love it here. I decided to 'retire' here (I'm only 40 but decided to give up the conventional job and live off of my assets -- so not looking for a job or setting up a company or this/that).

Where I've looked: I've spent nearly a year in Bangkok (live in a condo there now), about that amount of time in Pattaya, spent a month in Phuket and a couple of weeks in Buriram.

I have not been anywhere else in Thailand yet, but hope to explore more over the years.

What I'm looking for (and why I love Thailand):

1) Places to *WALK* and enjoy the views/scene/people/life (When in Pattaya or Phuket I would go for 3+ hour walks daily and enjoy seeing the shops, people about their lives, the houses, the beach, everything). Sadly in Bangkok, I can walk 10 minutes before the pollution gets to me

2) FOOD! Glorious food! Love the food in Bangkok & Pattaya (good restaurants and Isan food respectively). Don't care for it in Phuket (no luck finding enough good restaurants. Locals I talked to also praised Bangkok for its food, so I don't think it was just me).

3) Shopping! I'm a shop-aholic! I have a medical need to be near malls! (One reason I like Singapore). Bangkok has it covered, but the other places, not so much.

4) Good clean air. I need to breathe

5) Things to keep me active (I'm not going to sit around sipping beer all day (I don't actually drink)). So need things to help keep me active -- a Good gym is good (I presently work out about 3hours/day).

So far from my own list, I would rate Pattaya the highest (it hits most of those points the best). But maybe there is somewhere else In Thailand I have not been that might also be a good fit? (Hua Hin, Sri Racha? Somewhere?)

Any tips/suggestions greatly welcomed!

(Sorry for the long post! Didn't want to put out such a general request that any city would fit)