HarryHerb

That man oozed dirty sex all over the place ...

eeeewwww! May I also remind you he went out with Paula Yates, which shows distinctly dubious taste in women.

Personally singers just don't do it for me (although the Boss is cool) - I prefer the drummers, or guitarists in a band, they always seem more interesting somehow.

Oi... I happened to admire Paula Yates - she was an independent and slightly off-the-wall Aries , just like me! Poor woman just couldn't cope with losing her soul mate and fell to pieces and..... well, I too personally found Michael Hutchence to be a uniquely, mysteriously, sexy, desirable man

Sorry khall, but we Brits also remember "Paula: The Geldof Years", which is perhaps why I'm overly harsh!

QUOTE(gisele @ 2006-05-30 08:24:55) *

In a discussion in one of my seminars, the question came up about powerful men such as Trump or Blair being desirable.

try as I might, I can't find Donald Trump desirable

It's more of a personal 'aura' (apparently), that can't be seen on TV, pictures etc. I remember reading an article by a female journalist who interviewed Clinton on Air Force One, which described how despite herself, she found herself being magnetised and even aroused by his presence. Some women get off on the power thing, I suppose - like Monica Lewinsky

For example, would you have found JFK sexy if he wasn't who he was?

That man oozed dirty sex all over the place ...

eeeewwww! May I also remind you he went out with Paula Yates, which shows distinctly dubious taste in women.

Personally singers just don't do it for me (although the Boss is cool) - I prefer the drummers, or guitarists in a band, they always seem more interesting somehow.

Thanks for the replies! A friend of mine is coming down south in a couple of weeks and so I thought I'd ask her to bring me one - Central seems to be the place to look and I guess if it's over 5000 Baht, I'll do mail order as suggested by Tywais (thanks for that link!).

p1p was your friend happy with the machine you bought? Have you been round for a sandwich yet?

I guess these machines are all the same really, but it would be nice to know anyway

Could any of you residents tell me whether you can buy a bread maker in CM? And if so, where? I'm talking about one of the machines where you bung in all the ingredients and it does it all for you...

Names of stores and (rough) cost would be greatly appreciated. If there's a choice (!), any recommendations would also be fantastic.

"Thailand is the only country in the world to watch the World Cup live on free TV," he claimed

What rubbish!

I'm afraid its going to be a World Cup full of those annoying split screens etc. What I can't understand is that they never seem to show ads during half time!!

There's absolutely no ads during play in the World Cup coverage - Chang sponsors the whole thing, and their ads are played on a loop during breaks, including one with a particularly irritating tune that I can still remember from the last time boasting how thanks to Beer Chang "mai mii kohsana".

Commentary is <deleted> though.

england no chance

knob

head

Case..

redrus

... closed.

England it is!

Easy, SBK, before you get all worked up, you may want to read the past posts.

The Lorena Bobbit comment was not even posted by me but by a previous poster of the female gender who was actually praising you for your tenacity and likening you to the aforesaid Lorena.

I simply added the 'Ouch..' as I get an involuntary twinge in a certain part of my anatomy whenever I hear her name.

Mea culpa. It was a JOKE (as mods were talking about snipping offensive male posts)

Sincere apologies for offending anyone or causing unnecessary twinges in male nether regions.

Yes, I think the 'It' factor is crucial.

What is It? Who has It?

It makes a guy a 'real man' - and by 'real' I don't mean macho, I mean confident enough about who he is not to be derogatory to others, or feel the need to boast.

I think intelligence is important - this encompasses emotional intelligence as well as intellect - and also charisma - those preening beefcake blow up dolls have about as much of that as a wet fish.

It probably also means 'unavailable to mere mortals', which only increases their desirability.

Overall, though, It men are comfortable in their skin - as are It women! - and it shows. And of course, they are especially desirable if that skin happens to be beautiful

As for myself, I have always considered myself to be somewhat on the less than attractive side of the scale, but I have never been out of a long term relationship for more thasn a month or so for almost fourty years. Beats me why.

Modesty?

Did you hear that, Donz?

Western prejudice about Thailand is always going to be there. But if you're talking about setting up a retirement home here, sounds like every old man's fantasy! Most old guys know better than to give two hoots what their friends (who are still alive) think - and why should they care about their younger relatives? They're the ones packing them off to a home in the first place.

sbk, I certainly don't think this should be a female only forum. And I don't think either that it should be open only to men who agree with what we say - after all we don't always agree with each other!

What annoys me, however, is that men quite often completely take over a thread and make it near impossible for women to carry on a discussion. Of course this happens on 99% of the other boards on Thai Visa as well - which is why the Ladies' Forum is so important.

The 'Desirable Men' thread is a case in point. This is why I thought stopping topics here from appearing in the View New Posts might work, as the sheer numbers of men on this forum mean a topic is already well underway - on their terms - by the time we women even get to see it. Because of the way the system is set up, I don't think this is necessarily the men's fault, either - although some judgement on their side from time to time would not go amiss

This is not a problem that can be moderated, rio666uk, as no individual is being out of line - but an atmosphere is created where even the OP (in the above case, Gisele) feels she can't even contribute any more to her own topic.

What can be moderated are offensive posters and general rants about (western) women - and they are.

Ok ladies, I'm backing down. After extensive "research" on Google (in the interests of this forum, of course), I've come up with two conclusions.

1) It appears our Mr Reeves is not so dumb after all, despite a general consenus to the contrary - probably a conspiracy by male journalists Here is an archive of interviews for you.

2) Whatever his brain power, he is one fine-lookin' man. This is for you, Patsycat:

There's more (with more skin, if your brain's not working properly ) on the same site.

I agree with the Paul Newman thing - they don't make 'em like that anymore.

Harry,

Please see above post to Sir Burr. Aside from the fact that it is female viewpoints that this thread is about, observe on this thread how women respond to other women's posts...they tend to accept and respect the subjective nature and the validity of different subjective views...men (many, not all) tend to respond to female viewpoints by asserting them to be "wrong" and trying to "correct" them to be in line with a male viewpoint.

p.s. have just properly read your criticism of what I said. I think that I did respect, even concur with your views. I certainly didn't tell you that you were wrong. If I 'corrected' you, it was because you asked a question about Keanu's intelligence and I replied with an answer that went contrary to what you previously thought.

Why this led you to believe I was a man hijacking the thread I have no idea.

It seems that the other thread has got people a tad over-sensitive. I didn't even find anything in what Sir Burr said particularly offensive - he was of course wrong (re: Jack Nicholson), but so what? He's entitled to his opinion, as you are then entitled to tell him to shut up: surely that's what a forum is about?

p.p.s. to keep on topic: a young Matt Dillon

Guys who I used to be able to communicate with have all of a sudden turned into anti Asian bigots.

They don’t have a clue about Thailand, let alone the rest of Asia but have become experts on the Asian experience and culture.

Has anyone else had this experience or is it just my ex friends?

Good Lord. It's so common as to be almost unremarkable - and to make you sound rather disingenuous.

Of course you know that nobody just 'turns into' a bigot because you decide to move country. These are deep-seated prejudices and stereotypes - some, although not all grounded in fact - held in the West about SE Asia, and Thailand in particular, that are merely rising to the surface.

What I find perplexing is that a man of the world like yourself finds this at all surprising.

Sheryl, Harry is a women as far as I was aware, reading her post in the ladies section thread sure seems to confirm it. Nics can be deceptive so it's best not to jump to conclusion. If you think a thread is being overtaken or off track then use the report function & one of the mods will have a look. Thanks

Apologies Harry (may I call you Harriet?)

And thanks Boo for explaining what the "report" function is for, never knew.

Alas, now I have to seriously investigate the question of Keanau's smarts. Coz for me, desirability/attractiveness is a function of the entire persona, not just the physical appearance. And dumb definitely doesn't work for me.

No worries Sheryl (and thanks Boo for defending me in my absence). I suppose that my nic is open to interpretation - a la Jo / Sam / Chris etc. - but I am definitely female and I definitely fancy Keanu, despite (possibly because of?) the lack of brains. Who cares if he's dumb? You want to have conversations with the man, or rip his clothes off? (in your dreams, of course )

If you're still wondering as to his intelligence, btw, here's a quote from the man himself: "I'm a meathead man. You've got smart people, and you've got dumb people. I just happen to be dumb." Of course, it could all be an act, but Google 'Keanu Reeves dumb' and you've got an awful lot of hits...

On the blue eyes - dark hair combo (mmm) how about Jonathon Rhys Meyers? He's a bit on the skinny side, but the piercing stare is rather nice.

Well... this topic certainly got very chivalrous !

*runs off into the distance before he gets a kick...*

totster

Not quite the gallant knight in shining armour we ladies are supposed to be waiting for, eh?

Anyway, at the risk of this turning into a monologue, I have come up with a couple of suggestions, as sbk originally asked for. They're not much, but they are the best I can think of without resorting to banning people, which IMO is wrong.

1) Change the name of this forum to Girl Talk / Girls' Talk / Girlie Chat

Anything that will make clear the nature of the subject matter and the characteristics of the discussion therein. This type of title is slightly self-deprecating, but it has the advantage of having a whiff of the kind of 'periods - eye make-up - babies' type of hysterical cackling that makes most meatheads run a mile. Those men who secretly enjoy reading women's mags, on the other hand, will not be put off at all. I think the current name 'Ladies in Thailand' is rather more open to interpretation, and thus attracts the wrong kind of people.

2) Prevent threads from this forum appearing in 'View New Posts'

Part of the problem is, as I think Brit said, people just spotting juicy-looking title topics in View New Posts and jumping in to comment. Many of them may not even realise they are in the Ladies Forum and making inappropriate comments. If technically this is possible, then it would mean interested members actively have to seek out new posts here, by entering via the front page - which makes it clear where they are, and also gives them an opportunity to read the guidelines.

I'll shut up now too.

A case of "were're equal but we want to be treated differently"?

If you truly want to chat with your mates in private, why don't you use MSN or ICQ?

You added this on, so I'll respond to this too.

We're not equal on this forum though, are we? In terms of numbers I'd hazard that men outnumber women here at least 20 to 1. So why do you begrudge us our own little corner?

There are 40+ forums (fora?) on Thai Visa where you (and everyone else) can vent, philosophise and tell dirty jokes to your heart's content. And you bitch about one where the rules are slightly different? Give us a break.

a men only forum where we can let rip about what we really think of western women

I will propose this to board admin.

Why don't you save yourself the bother and go direct to the shrink?

You want privacy on an internet forum?? Don't be silly.

No, but some basic respect would be nice.

So, any male person whose point of view is not acceptable who is offensive is gonna be in trouble. Smacks of censorship to me. Does it? No other forum is run this way. Actually, every other forum is run this way.

Seems like males are going to have to tread on egg shells here. Why? Speak your mind and let others judge, like everywhere else. I can't be arsed.

I'll read but I won't post. So I guess you won't reply to this then?

Flame away ladies. Actually, we're trying to put the fires out...

But what is this about dumb? Say it isn't so! Where does that come from? To me, his off-screen presence seems low-key and unassuming, no showing off, but it never struck me as dumb..and he had the brains tio choose to be in the Matrix Trilogy, which to really understand requires a considerable background in gnosticism and eastern religions...oh, say it isn't so!!!!

Because if true, it would ruin it for me. Intelligence is a must....

Sheryl, did you ever see Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure?

I'll let you in to a secret: he wasn't really acting. He actually just is a dumb stoner (who happens to look dam-ned hot running around in black leather and sunglasses).

And have you ever seen any of his other 'characters' articulate in anything other than monosyllables? I'm afraid your love / lust is blinding you to the obvious, Sheryl!

I mean he is gorgeous, no doubt about that. But pure eye candy, no substance.

Kat - I wouldn't exactly say the forum is dominated by men who are hostile to western ladies. I think for the most part we lads are thoughtful, well meaning and assets to any section of the forum including the ladies section. Sure there are knobs out there, but I'd like to point out they are everywhere on the forum and taking action accordingly is the best method.

Typically I don't separate forum sections - I read/reply to what interests me and sometimes that happens to be in the ladies forum. (very lovely and tranquil place for the most part)

I think the minority of hostile men are not really the problem here - as you say they can easily be dealt with - but sometimes we just want a girly chat (a la 'do you fancy Keanu Reeves? I really do' thread currently on-going) without men putting in their 2 Baht on whether we are right or wrong, how our choices reflect our personalities, or commenting generally on the state of male - female relationships in the modern world.

This doesn't mean you can't participate at all - but use some judgement: if a topic is obviously one for the girls, than leave it alone. If, on the other hand you are willing and able to give advice on where to get a good bikini wax, then by all means feel free to chime in.

and what are our feelings about James Blunt?

There's "sensitive man" and there's "great big girl's blouse". If you're talking singers, the desirable type has to be .... errr..... Barry White????

Read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4743500.stm

Barry tones beat Blunt's vocals

Women are more likely to prefer the deep tones of Barry White to the higher pitched vocals of James Blunt when looking for a mate, scientists believe.

Research at St Andrews University found women prefer men with masculine voices, especially during their fertile phase.

They like men with dominant voices as they are thought to indicate long-term health and higher reproductive success.

It follows research findings that women during their fertile phase prefer men with more masculine faces.

However, the researchers found that when not fertile, women were more likely to be attracted to a more feminine voice signalling a more caring man, more likely to invest in a long-term relationship.

'Mating success'

Researchers said only attractive, feminine women did not vary preference over the menstrual cycle, possibly because they may find it easier to establish a long-term relationship with men with deep voices, indicative of high levels of testosterone.

Dr David Feinberg, St Andrews University researcher, said: "We already know male vocal attractiveness is highly related to masculinity and men with attractive voices have more mating success than men with unattractive voices.

"We asked women to assess attractiveness and dominance of voices across the menstrual cycle and predicted that preference for masculinity in men's voices would be stronger when conception risk is high.

"Women's preferences for masculine voices change over the menstrual cycle: women prefer masculine voices more when fertile."

Dr Feinberg added: "But, the menstrual cycle does not affect every woman's preferences equally.

"While we normally think that masculine men are more out for one-night stands than marriage, our research suggests that highly attractive and feminine women can get these masculine men to look for commitment."

The research is published in the latest issue of science journal Hormones and Behaviour.

... actually Unfaithful actually put me off Olivier Martinez a bit - he's just not as cute in English.

I'll second (or third or fourth ) the Keanu thing, though. He may not be the sharpest tool in the box, but he is dam n fine. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he inspired the memorable headline "Young, dumb and full of come".

John Cusack's eyes are lovely.

Current crush is Gael Garcia Bernal. Also quite like Zidane (footballer).

Interesting how no one (yet) thinks any blonde men are desirable... IMO Brad Pitt is

This is the Ladies Forum. Not the men discussing women forum, not the men telling women what to do forum. But the forum for women to discuss things that interest us.

Men are welcome but this is going too far and if you guys continue to hijack threads with your jokes, innuendoes and misguided opinions then I, for one, will have to step in as moderator and ask you to leave.

The only problem here is the nice guys are the only ones sensitive enough to leave and they are the last ones we want to go. The others, meanwhile, will continue to think that somehow, this forum is here for them to flame women members and tell women how to live their lives.

Men are, of course, welcome here. BUT you are not invited to join in with your snide comments, your endlessly boring and unbelievable stories of your conquests or other such off topic BS.

Consider this a warning. From now on, I plan on being very diligent with this issue and will delete any topic I deem abusive or hijacking (yup, I am a moderator and if I feel a dictatorial style is needed to weed out the deadwood then I will do so--complain elsewhere)

Ladies, feel free to post in this thread any suggestions you may have to return this forum to whom it belongs.

This is the best news I've heard all day. Even if it is a losing battle (try getting guys with massive chips on their shoulder about "the fairer sex" not to post in a topic entitled 'What women want'), I think some decisive snipping will do wonders for the discussions here - most of the time I can't be arsed to post as the thread has already degenerated beyond repair.

Once the rude guests have been snipped, they are unlikely to come back. Zero tolerance - and go, s "Lorena Bobbit" bk !!

In answer to the poll question, well of course you can speak Thai fluently without being able to read it - there are numerous examples of people who can, be they native speakers, luuk kreung, or Thai-as-second-language foreigners, some of whom have posted here.

In answer to a slightly different (related) question, 'can you be considered fluent in the Thai language without being able to read?', then the reply would be 'no'.

Many people can read a language but not speak it and vice versa, but the only true fluency and understanding comes from being able to do both (+ probably write it as well). Even if you can converse for hours on end, if you can't read a simple street sign or a menu then you can't call yourself fluent in the language in general. That's not snobbery, simply fact.