HarryHerb

Well I read through all 148 pages (actually 30+ on low-fi version ), set my limewire, went out for a few beers and hey presto! A totally cool soundtrack for when I come back and too drunk to sleep. Thanks, guys (especially Redrus, Sarpedo and Lovejoy - love your choices).

Right now?

The Killers - Somebody Told Me (Mylo Club Mix)

Crank it up...

Brilliant! Now it all makes sense, thank you. I will now be able to sleep easy tonight - จาก 23 นาฬิกาเป็นต้นไป

By the way, Tywais, my comment was not particularly pointed at you. Seems like almost every topic here eventually turns into a debate about the 'correct' way to transliterate. While I fully understand the need to write things down clearly so people who can't read Thai script can pronounce things properly, irrespective of their regional accent, to me it seems like a losing battle - ชั่งมัน (chang man)

In my case, I don't think I was even able to pronounce words properly until I started teaching myself to read and write and could see the relation between the letters and the sounds. You never know, maybe bad quality transliteration will inspire some people to take up learning the script...

To get back to topic

I have always wondered what the phrase เป็นต้นไป bpen tawn bpai (please don't start a discussion about transliteration again) meant.

You hear it on the TV a lot, usually when they're announcing an upcoming event / show, and after the time of the event has been given, e.g. 20 นาฬิกาเป็นต้นไป !. But I can't figure out what it actually means from the composite words and the context. It's possible I'm hearing it wrong also.

It's unlikely to be a very useful everyday phrase, but it's just one of those niggly things I want to know. Can anyone help?

To contribute something more useful, how about this phrase:

ชั่งมัน chang man

Sort of similar to mai pen rai, but more like 'let it be', 'forget about it' (when there's been an argument with someone). Not sure if it's impolite, though...

Many of the Thai banks now offer such services themselves - Krung Sri, Bank of Asia etc. - not sure how reliable they are, however.

Or try www.payzip.net, I find them to be pretty reliable and good customer service also. They're based in Singapore with an office in Phuket.

Just to set the record straight - not everyone who lives in a tourist area is a total loser. Many expats live in tourist areas for work / business reasons, rather than because they are drinking themselves to death or enjoy the mediocre conversation of bar girls.

And, believe it or not, there are also some 'touristy' areas in Thailand without a large population of women with tattoos and orange hair, that are actually quite nice and fun to live in. You'll find beautiful land and seascapes, as well as nice people. But maybe you've never been down south.

In other places like Pattaya, you get treated like a tourist because you're in a tourist area and you're white and you look like a tourist. Simple, really. Just like my Thai friend got mistaken for a waitress in a Thai restaurant in London (she was pretty pissed off too).

As to why it pisses people off, I guess it's to do with the fact that no matter how long you've been in a place and how well you speak the language, you will never be thought of as 'one of us' (i.e. the indigenous people - this is the same in every country in the world). Here, this fact is just brought out into stark relief in a tourist area, which somewhat shatters the illusions one can foster at home of fitting in.

Tywais, how large is your "Otto"? It must be pretty big if you can do a roast - the ones I've been looking at would be able to do a quail at best. They could fit an average-sized cake tin, but I'm worried about the heating elements as you said.

The inside size is 30cm wide x 30cm deep x 23cm high. An average sized cake tin will fit in because that is what I used to make cassarol and macaroni and cheese with no problem. You can get a perspective on the size from the picture. Sorry, didn't have time to clean the oven. It also has a motorized rotisary and of course adjustable shelf heights. Believe it cost a little more then 3000 Baht.

That looks just the ticket, thanks a lot for posting! It's smaller than I thought it would be, and I think I can fit it in if I move a few things around. I assume "Otto" is available in Homepro type shops - I live in the sticks so I'll have to make a trip to the big city soon.

By the way, is that a sandwich maker and a toaster I see in the picture? Not fond of rice then, I take it .

The widespread use of sarcasm in soaps is an interesting point. I tend to agree with other posters in that it's not common in society as a whole - the example used above was between you and your wife (intimate relations) - precisely because you are subjecting the recipient to open ridicule, however gentle.

So the presence of sarcasm in soap operas, alongside other supposedly 'non-Thai' characteristics - aggression and fighting, screaming and arguing, evil mothers and daughters etc. - shows that this is here, as Patrick says, to "elicit maximum response from the viewers" - which it does. But this does not mean that the viewers will then go and repeat such behaviour in their everyday lives.

Unless you subscribe to the 'TV leads to violence in society' theory... but that's a whole other topic.

Tywais, how large is your "Otto"? It must be pretty big if you can do a roast - the ones I've been looking at would be able to do a quail at best. They could fit an average-sized cake tin, but I'm worried about the heating elements as you said.

Phuketsiam, first of all, I'm sure you've heard this before (and I'm sure that's the whole point of it), but your avatar - yuk!

That aside, can you elaborate what you mean by 'most things'? Specifically, have you been able to bake anything - cakes / biscuits (cookies) / puddings? Or can you only grill 'n' toast or warm things up?

ออรอ or-ror = naughty

I was under the impression this meant silly rather than naughty. Naughty is yung with a high tone.

Yes, you're right. I think cheeky / silly / playing up would be a better translation. It's mostly said to kids, as far as I can see.

Here we say jep pheung for bad stomach (instead of thong sie) jep hua for headache, jep teen etc etc.

'jep pung' is a great southern cover-all expression. Can mean you've got the runs (thong sia), stomach cramps (puat thong), even gone into labour (jeb thong khlod look)! I was out fishing one day when one of my friends got a call to say his wife was 'jep pung'. It took me ages to realise why they were all so excited.

Its funny that some of the differences that I pointed out you said were just different pronunciations of the same word, I think that it appears that way to us but to non-Southerners it is viewed as a different word altogether. [...] We don't see much of a difference at all, but the majority of Thais I have met it is a major difference!

Yes, I suppose you're right. Same as a strong Scottish rendering of an English phrase would probably sound impenetrable to a foreigner - or even to some southern English jessies. This is especially true, as Naomisri points out, there's usually an added 'uh' or 'oh' on the end of everything.

As there's no written southern vocabulary, though, I think it would be hard to prove that 'meet' and 'meht' for example are actually different words - and I suspect most southerners when asked to write down 'meht', would write the Central Thai 'meet'.

Naomisri, here's what I wrote with meanings (transliterated), plus some more I thought of:

'roy (from a-roi) - good, cool, fun (general approving word)

raeng - very, really, a lot

poh - just, as in 'poh dteun' - I just woke up

sai? - what's wrong? (usually said, like you say: 'sai-uh?', or 'sai lao')

kehp - be in a hurry, rush

yang (used as a verb) - to have

kae - near

or-ror - silly, cheeky

kop = bite (slightly vulgar)

yaa suup - tobacco, also used for normal cigarettes

tee kia yaa - ashtray

cham - plate, bowl

ka-lui - a lot, many

ka-lui mot - really a lot

nam chuup - nam prik

nawng bao / pi bao - younger / older brother

luuk bao - son

bo dek - boyfriend / girlfriend (used with teenagers)

nuan - soft, melted

tawn chao - used to mean 'tomorrow'

ki klan - lazy, don't feel like doing anything

They're a bit random, sorry. But I'd be interested to see if these are also 'island south' words (I'm on the mainland).

Some southern words have even made it up to the big smoke e.g. 'saeng' (bored, sick and tired)

By the way, Naomisri, I suspect you don't really 'leng dtai' anyway - you should tell people you 'leng thong daeng' - a lovely expression meaning 'to speak bronze' or 'copper', basically an alloy of Central and South.

I really want to make my own cakes, and I'm thinking of getting one of those teeny-tiny ovens that look like a microwave (don't have enough space in my kitchen for anything larger).

Some of them have pictures of cakes etc. on the front, but I'm slightly doubtful. Does anyone know if it is possible to do proper baking in such a small thing? Or are they really only for cheese on toast?

I'm using version 2 , mainly Writer, which I installed directly a month ago (no previous version) and I haven't had any problems yet opening my old .doc files - so maybe it's to do with your upgrade. I'm finding all the programmes in Open Office incredibly slow though, so much so that I'm almost considering going back to Word.

Strictly speaking, it's not rot daeng, but

(rot) kan daeng (car - classifier - red)

The order is generally

object + classifier + adjective (or other descriptive word / number)

e.g. this book: nang seu lem nii

or the black cat: maew tua si dam

or 3 packs of cigarettes: burii sahm sawng

In the case of an adjective and a description of quantity you probably ought to repeat the classifier:

object + classifier + adjective + number + classifier

e.g. 2 red cars: rot kan daeng sawng kan

In practice you can usually leave out the first classifier as it all becomes too long and just use the classifier before the number

object + adjective + number + classifier

e.g. 3 yellow boats: reua sii leuang sahm lam

Hope this is clear. Somehow I suspect not.

I totally love Southern Thai. It irritates me that I speak a lot of it without knowing though. It's hard when you learn a mixture of Bangkok and Southern Thai to ever be able to differentiate between the two. This might not matter to some people, but can make you appear differently when talking to Thai people from other areas. Most just think it's amusing though.

I would love to get some terms down so that I can make out when to use dteen and when to use taw - as per skylarks example! In fact I had no idea that there was another word for foot... You can see my problem.

My Thai isn't fantastic, but I would be happy to contribute where I can!

Yes, I had the same problem - if you don't have the benefit of any formal Thai teaching, it can be hard to know which words are which - until it's too late and you are faced with blank / horrified looks. I've mostly sorted that out now - thanks to a secretary who speaks only Central - although my tones occasionally go haywire when I'm tired or not concentrating and I lapse into Southern with her, which makes her laugh.

This is also one of the reasons I'm keen to start off with a list - and maybe Meadish and others could throw in some linguistic context for us.

I'll set the ball rolling with some fairly standard stuff - in transliteration, as well as (very approximative) Thai script:

เลง leng - speak, talk

แล lae - look, watch

Instead of มองไม่เห็น (mohng mai hen), southerners say แลไม่เห็น lae mai hen, or แล TV instead of ดู TV

แล้วไหม laew mai?

Instead of หรือยัง reu yang? e.g. kin khao laew mai? not kin khao reu yang?

Note also that the rising tone of ไหม is definitely a rising tone and not the high tone of central Thai.

The negative reply to this is ไม่ที่ 'mai thii' (not yet), not ยัง

พรือ preu - the closest approximation to this I can think of is อะไร 'arai'.

There are many expressions using this, not just the oft-quoted ไม่พรือ mai preu.

Examples

พรรณพรือ pan preu? ว่าพรือ waa preu? = what's up?

หาพรือ ha preu? ทำพรือ tham preu? = what can I do? (i.e. there's nothing I can do)

ทำพรือดี tham preu dii = what should I do?

ไม่พรือ mai preu = mai pen rai

The 'past' signifier ได้ 'dai' e.g ไม่ได้รู้ mai dai ruu, is pronounced 'jai', so it becomes ไม่ไจรู้ mai jai ruu.

ร่อย 'roy = ดี dii (from a-roi)

แรง raeng = จัง jang

โป poh = เพิง peung

ไส sai? = what's wrong?

เคบ kehp = รีบ riip

ยัง yang (used as a verb) = มี mee

แค kae = ใกล้ klai

ออรอ or-ror = naughty

กบ kop = กัด kat (slightly vulgar)

There are lots more... (does anyone recognise any of these?)

Re: the grunts, the standard question and answer words (along the lines of chai mai? / chai) are noh? / euh.

Example conversation:

My roti seller: Rawn raeng wan nii. Noh, Harry, noh?

Harry: Euh

So there is quite a lot of grunting, yes, but not sure if significantly more then elsewhere. The southern 'euh' is deeper and sounds more like urr, than err, if that makes sense...

I don't think southerners talk quicker, in fact I was under the impression that people from the north talk at breakneck speed - probably got to do with how much you understand. They do shorten almost every word, however, so that's maybe why you felt like you were wearing ear muffs!

ฺBut Thais are masters of telling outright lies with great conviction and sincerity.

Are you sure they weren't just being sarcastic?

Warnings noted; I do realise expression - as well as the person you are talking to - will make a good deal of difference to how you will come across, especially as a foreigner. I was just wondering if Thai people themselves use this as a common form of discourse - but obviously not. Teasing (gentle or otherwise) seems to be the main way to raise a laugh from people here; failing that I could always fake falling off my chair, or banging my nose on a lamppost (boing boing!) next time someone asks me where I am going.

I'm resucitating this thread from about a year ago - not sure what the etiquette is, so someone pls let me know if I should start a new one.

But there is lots still to say on this topic... so, calling all Southern Thai lovers! (or rather "lovers of southern Thai language", for clarity's sake ). Yes, all those who find the nasal whinnying of Central and Northern Thai grating and prefer the sing-song sounds of the south. There must be some of you out there.

The idea put forward of there being a pan-southern dialect is perfectly true. It is used by those in the higher social ranks, through education or otherwise, in preference to Central Thai to show 'where they come from'.

It is mainly based on Central Thai vocabulary (although all is spoken with a southern accent / tones) and is peppered with standard southern expressions and words that are used across the region, as opposed to the provincial and village slang, which is anyway considered to be 'low language'. The other difference is that it is politer, with universal use of krap/ ka (not usually present otherwise). It seems to me to sound the same when used between people in the same village, as well as across provinces.

A lot of the vocabulary is very hard to write down - especially as my writing skills are not really up to that yet- but I think it would be a good idea to start a word list (even if transliterated).

Of sbk's examples only one is standard southern: 'leng' - to talk, speak. The others are mostly just different pronounciations of Central Thai words: กี่ี่ being pronounced more like 'gay' (compare also สี่ which sounds like a northern English person saying 'say'). Similarly the letter ค (ko kwai) is pronounced like an 'f', so kwai comes out like fhai.

The 'l's as 'r's of Central and Northern Thai do not exist here: An 'r' is an 'r'. So there's no 'mai luu leuang', but 'mai ruu reuang' (or, more likely 'mai ruu fang').

I could go on, but I don't want to bore everyone to death. Is there anyone else who's interested in this kind of discussion and /or compiling a list of southern expressions?

8. Juristic Person that is operating its business by using the specific proficiency or masterfulness.

I'm curious as to how that no.8 is interpreted. I would imagine many people who have a work permit for something other than a company management role have to prove a specialist skill that cannot be provided by the local labour force in order to get the WP in the first place!

In my case, it's language and computer proficiency - does that count and where would it have to be worded in order to apply for the extension: on my work permit or on my company objective / VAT registration?

When I first started learning Thai, I was struck by the number of blindingly obvious questions people seemed to ask me all the time. When I met someone in the market, they would often ask me ซื้ออะไร (seu arai?) at the fruit stall; or ทานข้าวหรือ (thaan khao reu?) when sitting in a restaurant.

My natural instinct was to give a sarcastic reply, as I would in English: I'm buying a washing machine - what do you think? (I didn't actually say this). I eventually realised of course that they weren't interested in the slightest in what I was doing, but it was merely their way of saying 'hello' - similar to ไปใหน (pai nai) - so any sarcasm would just be lost in translation.

That's probably not a great example, but my point is that in situations where in English many would find it natural to be a bit sarky, in Thai it would fall flat or seem inappropriate.

I'm curious to see if Thai people use this type of 'humour' at all - given that their standard laughs seem to be had watching a fat man falling over accompanied by a drum roll and perhaps a boing boing noise for emphasis. But if so, where? Can anyone give me any everyday examples of where / how it would be appropriate? (with friends rather than the Immigration officer, I mean)

Or is it just a big faux pas?

How long from Hat Yai to Phuket and how are the roads?

About 6-7 hours depending on how fast you drive.

Go via Trang, Sikao, Krabi, then up to Phuket - the roads are fine, mostly 4-lane, but occasionally 2-lane going round the mountains.

In the south, it's just shortened (as everything else!) to 'rang. I've also heard - although this may be very local (i.e. limited to one group of friends) - particularly stupid farang called 'cashew nuts' in southern dialect, which causes great amusement.

I am happy to be called a Farang particularly after I heard this one

แขก it spells Khaak, it's not polite and means or a Dark-skinned visitor, particularly Indian or Arab

แขก (khaek) is quite a common word down south and it's used by Muslim people to refer to themselves, so it's not derogatory here (although it may be if a northern / central Thai is using it to refer to darker skinned people than themselves).

Also afterwards I don't recall ever not being topped up, but then I may fall into the charm / good looks camp of taxexile

membership qualifications for that camp are very high.

only a few manage to make it through the selection process.

So, will you let us in on the secret? What are the requirements for this exclusive club, other than being able to order a soda with consummate ease, and command enough respect for automatic top-ups? Now I have to know if I really qualify, or am just an amateur...

If you can't post a link, can you post pictures? Sounds very interesting...

You can't have ' most ' unique. It is or it isn't. Bit like being a virgin I suppose.....

Uma~~ didn't say "'most' unique", she said 'most unique-looking' (albeit without the hyphen, which is slightly confusing), which actually makes perfect sense. To use your example, one could say: Miss X looks most like a virgin (out of all the other girls in the bar).

Fish with chillies followed by yellow turkey curry? Sorry, suegha, but (to use an American expression that seems appropriate here) you just totally grossed me out.

Why on earth would you want to do something like that? I'm assuming none of the fish itself went in the yellow curry, so why keep a bit of old chilli sauce when, as blue eyes, says fresh chillies are much much better, not to mention the fact that they're on the inexpensive side, so hardly need to be used twice?

Thai food does not really lend itself to leftover recipes, unless you are talking about plain grilled meats or fish. Things like yam and stir-fries must be eaten immediately; others things like curries do keep, but as they usually taste much better heated up the day after, why would you want to turn them into something else?

I love soda! Nothing is wrong with soda. But to the uneducated masses who insist on mixing it with Sangsom or Regency it does seem slightly odd to drink what is and always will be to them a 'mixer', on its own.

So much so that I find whenever I order a soda, there is an inevitable pause / blank look, often followed by a 'soda plao?' just to confirm that I am not concealing the bottle of whisky under the table or something. Don't think it's got anything to do with money as I never get a second glance when I order a 'real' soft drink like a coke.

Also afterwards I don't recall ever not being topped up, but then I may fall into the charm / good looks camp of taxexile

Why don't you train / bus down to Satun and take the ferry to Langkawi from there instead? You can then go directly on to the Malaysian mainland from there. That way you also avoid the deeply unpleasant, truck-filled border crossing at Sadao and the monotonous motorways down from Had Yai.

Don't think there's a train station in Satun (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so if you want to go by train, you may have to change to a bus in Trang.

Closer to the shore - doh! Yes, now it seems obvious. I was going quite far out (to get more of the island in the frame), which results in more contrast (deeper water is darker, obviously) and more camera shake - treading water with a housing is not exactly easy...

So I should stay in the shallows, with props like fish food. Thanks for the advice Chang_paarp, I will try this out next time I'm there and maybe post the efforts if it works out .