wmlc

DM me if you get stuck and I can help.

You are a good debater Lol. It's been fun.

In my experience, just issuing a simple tax ID is difficult. They can't even speak English. You are lucky if you can find a Revene Dept officer who can put two English words together.

Let's look at one typical Chinese example. Many Chinese don't stay here for long as a tourist.They just come here on vacation, buy condo and rent it out. Therefore, Thai taxes are important for them. Even if they are not a tax resident in Thailand, they still do earn assessable income from their rental. Therefore, in Thailand, tax is still an issue for them and they will care. However, that is a really good point because they might buy up all the condos anyways that us stubborn western guys stop buying because we worry about a new tax law that most likely won't be enforced.

First of all, it would just be prove you filed and not proof you paid. The personal income tax return and the accessed income will determine if you have to pay or not along with other deductions you might be eligible for plus any DTA that is relevant. Secondly, I believe they won't be able to handle the tax ID applications and all the processes. Thirdly, I think the pressure from the other government sectors that depend on foreign investment will fight back. Finally, immigration will face so many challenging extensions people will just stop doing them and won't stay. Imagine the chaos at immigration. That means no more jobs for Immigration officers as they won't be needed anymore. It just won't happen in my opinion. They may try but it will fail.

Lol. If the rule of attraction is true, you and some others will get what you say you don't want lol. However, for me, I am positive even with new technology available today, they won't be bothered to go after foreigners. It's too much work for them. Then what about a new government? This happens a lot more often here than in other countries. For example, new government, new weed laws. Another new government a few years later, more backpedaling and foots in mouthes. Then there is the foreign investment they will lose. No more retirees buying condos. I can go on. Anyways, let's hope I am right. For you, it sounds like you better start making your exit strategy lol.

But what If they just leave. Seems a waste to me. I know plenty of guys who would leave just to avoid filing taxes. Forget about whether they would even need to pay or not. In my humble opinion, if they could not manage to make this work, they can't manage to coordinate with airport immigration on exit and entry, Thai immigration on visa extensions, and making sure everyone can apply for and receive a tax ID. I will tell you a story from this past February. We have one client who insisted on getting a tax ID because he was anticipating having to file. He is a retiree. Guess what, the officer in the Revenue Dept told him not to worry and didn't issue the tax ID. This was after the new law came out. Go figure. Also, there were more foreigners coming here then than there are now. Foreigners have still not returned at the same level as before after covid. There is less money to be made now than there was before.

All of that would be very ambitious of the Thai government to do. I will go you one better. Here is the existing law that is in place. It has not been enforced in many years. I wonder why that is????? Hmmm. The following would be the easiest way to enforce the new law. Make everyone on a Non immigrant visa get a tax clearance certificate before they can leave the country. Here is the legislation they abandoned enforcement on, but it still exists in the Thailand Revenue Code and you can actually still obtain one. Yes, that's right. You can still obtain one because the mechanism is still in place. However, no one will ever ask you for one when you try to leave Thailand. So, how can we explain this one not being enforced anymore? It is so easy for them to do. Just have a dozen or so staff in each city working in the TRD offices and all they do each and every day is issue thee certificates and collect unpaid taxes. How about an online system that asks you to input your details and issues them automatically if it's straight forward. And if not straight forward, it forces you to schedule an appointment to go in and sort it in person before getting the certificate and leaving Thailand. WHY HAS THIS STOPPED BEING ENFORCED? I WONDER WHY. LOL I KNOW WHY. BECaUSE THEY NO HABE THE RESOURCES AND NEVER WILL. LOL. Sorry, I could not resist the Thinglish. LOL Section 4 Bis A foreigner departing Thailand shall pay tax due and/or tax payable even if it is not due, or to arrange for a collateral for payment of tax in accordance with the provisions of the Revenue Code before departure. Section 4 Ter A foreigner departing Thailand shall apply for a Tax Clearance Certificate in the form prescribed by the Director-General within fifteen days prior to departure, whether or not there is any tax payable. An application under paragraph 1, where the foreigner is domiciled or resides in Bangkok or Thonburi province, shall be submited to the Director-General or his authorized representative. If he is domiciled or resides in other province, it shall be submited to the Provincial Governor or his authorized representative. A foreigner who does not apply for Tax Clearance Certificate under paragraph 1 and 2, or does apply but has not received a Tax Clearance Certificate, departs Thailand or attempts to depart Thailand, he will not only be subject to punishment under the provisions of the Revenue Code, but also surcharge of 20 percent of tax payable. Surcharge under this Section is deemed to be tax. Section 4 Quarter Provisions of Section 4 Bis and Section 4 Ter shall not apply to a foreigner transiting Thailand, or entering and residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating not more than ninety days in a tax year without earning assessable income, or to a foreigner as prescribed by the Director-General with the Minister’s approval. 7 7N.DG.Re. Stipulating Non-Requirement for Foreigners Departing from Thailand to Obtain Tax Clearance Certificate. Section 4 Quinque A person receiving an application under Section 4 Ter shall examine whether the applicant has any tax liability under Section 4 Bis or not. If there is no tax liability, a Tax Clearance certificate prescribed by the Director-General shall be issued to the applicant. If the examination under the provision of paragraph 1 appears that the applicant has tax liability to be paid under Section 4 Bis and the applicant has fully paid tax, or if he does not pay tax in full or pays part of the tax but arranges for a guarantor or a collateral as the Director-General or a Provincial governor or his authorized representative deems appropriate as a collateral for tax payment, he shall be issued a Tax Clearance certificate by the Director-General or a Provincial Governor or his authorized representative. Section 4 Sex In the case where a person receiving an application under Section 4 Ter considers that an applicant has sufficient reason to leave Thailand urgently but temporarily, and an applicant has a collateral or assets in Thailand worth more than the amount of tax due or tax payable, the Director-General or Provincial Governor or an authorized representative shall issue a Tax Clearance certificate. Section 4 Septem Subject to Section 4 Octo, a Tax Clearance Certificate is valid for fifteen days from the date of issuance. If there is a request for extension before it expires, the Director-General or Provincial Governor or his authorized representative may extend it for another fifteen days. Section 4 Octo A foreigner who has to enter Thailand on a regular basis in relation to his occupation or profession may apply to the Director-General or Provincial Governor or his authorized representative as the case may be, to issue a Tax Clearance Certificate which is used regularly. If a person receiving the application considers that the applicant has a necessary cause as requested and has a collateral or assets in Thailand in the amount at least equal to tax due or tax payable, may issue a Tax Clearance Certificate in the form prescribed by the Director-General. Such Tax Clearance Certificate shall be valid during the time specified in such Certificate but shall not exceed one hundred and eighty days from the date of issuance. Section 4 Novem A foreigner departing Thailand without a Tax Clearance Certificate as required by the Revenue Code shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 1,000 Baht, or an imprisonment not exceeding 1 month, or both. A foreigner attempting to do as such shall be subject to the same punishment. Section 4 Decem The Director-General or his authorized representative shall pay interest to a taxpayer receiving tax refund at the rate of 1 per cent per month or part of the month of the amount of tax refundable subject to the rules and conditions prescribed by the Ministerial regulations. Interest paid under paragraph 1 shall not exceed the amount of tax refundable and shall be paid out of tax collected under the Revenue Code.

Pack your bags then Lol

I am still waiting for that to happen. As it stands, it has not happened for many years.

Why have they not implemented that enforcement in the past. The 180 day rule was already in place in some capacity for many years. What are your thoughts on that?

Oh wow. You are paranoid. The girls I know send it on western union and through the normal swift code system. Or they transfer it to their account or a family member account or a friend's account. Some Thais actually have accounts in these other countries and there girls send the money to those accounts in Taiwan for example. That same Thai person then takes the money from their local Thai bank and gives it to the beneficiary. They get the money in a foreign account and give it out in cash in Thailand from a different account. Eventually, some money needs to find its way from the foreign account to the Thai account and that can happen multiple ways. By bringing its in cash. Money transfer, western union, and so many other ways.

Ha Ha

So, if the Thai government can't enforce it on them, their own citizens, how can they enforce it on foreigners? Those girls transfer the money in or bring it in in cash the same as we do.

I don't agree. I will give you a huge example. The girls that go work in South Korea or Japan or Taiwan. They go three months at a time once or twice per year and earn big money.

They are because many only work abroad part time and come back with their money to spend it here. Also they also may have other things that make them a resident.

Other than reports in the news, have you actually seen a Thai government press conference about this topic? This topic meaning enforcement. That will need to happen because there would need to be so many government agencies involved and the expats would need to be informed. Further, this new law was originally designed to keep the Thais who work abroad honest. I still believe that to be true today and they won't be targeting foreigners. Thanks for the discussion. It's n ice to be able to discuss stuff on here without the name calling and arguing. Cheers.

Agreed. Because they would be trying to implement something that has been non existent forever. No more long term tourists. No more retirees. Makes no sense right.

In my opinion, the worst case scenario will be a failed attempt.

The point I am making is they won't do it because they don't have the organization skills, time, budget, or resources for it. Your idea would take a lot of preparation. Sure they can do it, but they won't in my opinion because they just can't.

No comment on the actual law and process I posted after? Don't worry though, I will repeat it again for your information. 1.The Immigration Office must be notified and the non-immigrant B visa must be cancelled. 2. Following that, the work permit must be cancelled together with returning the booklet to the Labour Department. 3. Upon receipt of the notification, the Immigration Office will issue a formal permission for the employee to stay in Thailand in accordance with the letter of previous employer. If the notification is submitted to the Immigration Office not longer than 3 weeks (this is the 21 days I’m talking about), before the end of the employment, the Immigration Office will grant such permission to stay in Thailand until the employment ends. 4. During this 3-week period, the employee may apply for a new work permit and extend a non-B visa under the new employment respectively. I guess all of this is just in our imagination then. You have no idea. Thanks though. Maybe next time, mind your own business and stop highjacking other posts just to cause trouble. You might not want to go around calling people names in real life. I guess you feel like you can easily do it on a public forum where you are anonymous. hmmm

That's interesting to say the least. Do you have confidence that they will be able to arrange all that? I' m skeptical based on 15 years in Thailand, I have never seen a Thai government initiative with so much attention and efficiency. I am thinking they don't have what it takes. Let's see.

When you use the term "off chance" it leads me to believe you think all this will be enforced almost 100%. What are your thoughts on why they didn't enforce the 180 day rule as it was prior to Jan 2024?

May I ask how you think they would enforce this regulation on people that refuse to file and ignore that letter you described ? Especially, if they don't insist on seeing any evidence of you filing before doing your extension. I've given my ideas of how they could enforce it and I don't think they have the budget, man power, or the organization skills to take on such a large task. What are your ideas on this? Further, I was just thinking that the letter you described would be similar to the overstay warning they often get us to sign at immigration. However, the difference is that overstay is easily enforced on exit out of Thailand or during a spot check in a club, bar, or roadside stop.

What is your opinion on enforcement?