aussienam

25 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You will also have to keep an eye out this. 

 

Plenty on the internet about it, and plenty of debate about it in the Australia Forum.  It's in the mail. 

 

Non resident tax is 30% from $0 to $135,000.   Note, that's from the first dollar.  No tax free threshold.   

 

https://hlb.com.au/tax-residency-changes-for-individuals/

 

Basically, Australia will change its 90 year old tax residency laws to a time based and physical presence model, like Thailand.

 

Outside of Australia for 183 days, non resident for for tax purposes.   

 

 

Various YouTube channels with a number of alleged tax experts/financial advisors who basically have interpreted the DTA with Australia and Thailand (a d other nations).  Reading Article 18 and 19, if you had a private pension that was not listed as one of those that is tax-exempt (military pensions, certain civil service pensions) then yes, according to certain interpretations, you'd be potentially liable for tax if you remitted a private Australian pension, considering private pensions in Oz are tax-exempt.

Other issues too such as franking credits from dividends seems not to be recognised in Thailand.

Also, selling your property and being Capital Gains Tax exempt or the 50% discount for investment properties - not recognised it appears to me in Thailand.  What about investment property income and tax credits from running costs, fees, depreciation, etc?  These all reduce your tax liability in Oz. Recognised in Thailand?  Plus our tax year is different to Thailand, so what about those who do not prepay tax,rather wait till their accountant lodges the return to the Australian Tax Office? What do we do?  Get a half-year tax assessment in Oz?  I could go on. Just so much confusion and uncertainty and potentially very costly double/triple accountant and notarization fees (on certifying documents) and a ton of stress and time, if this all goes ahead.  

If it goes ahead, many I am predicting, will just leave Thailand permanently.  

Not sure what the criminal code is here, but perhaps a case for manslaughter (reckless manslaughter - reckless indifference) in that it would be reasonable to assume a patient was on board requiring life saving treatment, deliberately prevented that treatment by the other driver who didn't care. Of course an autopsy would need to confirm whether or not the patient had a fighting chance.

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

Safety last

Bring on the cancer and Parkinson's diaease.  Thank you China.  And thanks to the greed of vendors selling it into Thailand.  

I bought 1kg off the back of a Song Taew the other day.  Great.  I rinsed them with water but probably ingested a good dose of cancer and disease causing poisons. Thanks you a$$h***s.

The selfishness with a lot of smokers makes me not surprised about this story.  Add that to self entitlement attitude attributed to being spoilt in their first world cultures.  

"I'll just light up and screw the rest of you.  I don't care if it is banned here. I don't care if people around me are offended with the foul smell.  It's all about me". 

Regarding domestic purchases by non-Thai citizens who are tax-residents - I would be assuming a drop in purchases since the announcement of enforcement of incoming remittance tax. I would add condo purchases to that as well as something most will now avoid. 

Nobody in their sane mind who is going to be subject to incoming remittance tax is going to be buying big-ticket items anymore in Thailand .... unless of course they want to spend more than 183 days out of the country in a calendar year so as to facilitate that purchase - a massive annoyance and inconvenience for most. 

I know expats here would be only a small percentage of vehicle purchases.  Other expats who don't have tax exemptions on their remittances will also leave Thailand.  We will all see how this pans out next year if Thai revenue department goes ahead to fully enforce this 

11 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I think you are right. But you are referring to the wealthy and middle class Thais - IMO the majority of Thais (such as those whose votes dont count) want Expats to stay and more to come.  But not only does their votes not count, their opinions and wants dont count either. 

 

If you recall, in September 2023 there was an article in the BP that was from TAT, and it spoke of the decline in Expats working and living in Thailand (especially the Japanese and Koreans), and it stated that "The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) is dedicating 2024 to expats by offering benefits to this segment.  Thapanee Kiatphaibool, the TAT governor, said the agency is preparing privileges for expats including perks they have requested for many years, such as lowering entrance fees to national parks and other attractions to the same rate as Thais."

 

And then not long after TRD announced they are going to include Expats in the 'new taxation regime' and the TAT Expat Program disappeared into the great black hole that is full of previous Thai Govt statements, promises and proposals. 

Yeah, let's dangle that carrot 🥕 - expats farangs can now pay Thai rates to national parks, ...... but we we are going to absolutely smash you with tax.  That's fair?  How about it!  

1 hour ago, AndreasHG said:

Thank you: it is contradictory.

Actually, it's my mistake.

I should have written: "This means that, if you are resident of Thailand, your pension and annuities are only taxed in Thailand. They are not taxable in Australia..."

 

And as the vast majority of Australian pensions and annuities are tax-exempt in Australia anyway, suddenly as a Thai tax resident you are now being taxed on your normally untaxed pensions and annuities.  Zero benefits. 

22 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

You know there's the concept of what people think is tax free or exempt but it's actually been taxed, just at a very deliberate rate of zero percent.

So if something has already been taxed at zero percent, does it remain untaxed income or not and therefore untouchable by Thailand?

Just a thought here, the concept of 0% tax doesn't make it untaxed.

Regardless of the amount of tax or definition of 'taxed', if it is below the Thai tax thresholds as per their tax scale, then they can charge tax on the difference.  In my case with my Australian private pension, which I am planning to accumulate to near maximum contribution limits, I will be subjected to around 20% tax and more. 

Insane anyone's pension distribution would be taxed after being paid, but there it is.  The new status quo and if there is no way out of it, I am sadly leaving Thailand. To others, they may accept this.

Also, there is a whole category of certain pensions that won't be taxed in Thailand so those expats will remain.  Ex Military, certain ex government employees, US Social security recipients and other foreign pensions that are pre-taxed above or close to Thai tax rates. 

It's really an unfair system to disadvantage others, as pre-taxed pensions are on average going to be very similar in amounts to the untaxed ones - just because of the way the country has structured tax payments.  Dual Taxation Agreements have been poorly put together to disadvantage and discriminate. 

Wealthy retirees will just purchase a Long Term Visa and use that loophole to get out of paying tax. The rest of us are possibly screwed and it will cause a shift to other countries to retire instead.  

It seems for now that Thailand can no luck longer boast being a great, affordable retirement destination, especially with global income taxation on top. 

Imagine a loved one passing away to leave you inheritance? In Australia inheritance is tax-exempt. Let's say $200,000 AUD.  And I decided to bank that and keep it in Australia.  Thailand could tax me on my inheritance.  Wow.  And the money never left the Australia. A big risk is therefore having a family member, alive, who has you in their Will for a substantial inheritance and you are a Thai tax resident. You cannot predict the timing of someone's passing normally (awful to think about).

Same applies selling property abroad if global taxation means they can tax me on what is tax-exempt capital gains in Australia, even if I don't remit it to Thailand.  Losses of hundreds of thousands of AUD to the Thai revenue department (who will possibly also tax your tax liability funds sent to Thailand to pay the tax bill, as well because of remittance tax - tens of thousands of dollars AUD).  Absolutely ludicrous to remain in Thailand under these circumstances.  

2 hours ago, anchadian said:

All my income is sent directly to my Thai wife's bank account and I withdraw our living expenses each month and the balance of monies remaining is left in her account.

 

I have no other family members when I pass.

She is a tax resident.  If the money isn't classified as a gift it is tax assessable.  They may connect the dots too since you aren't remitting funds any other way so are living off money sent to her.  Not sure though.  But I'd guess she'd need to declare that remittance and have it tax assessed 

On 9/3/2024 at 4:53 AM, scubascuba3 said:

The popular fish & chips woman selling potato scallops has gone

Was 'blocking' (not really) Chinese owned nightclub, amongst all the other foreign owned ones there.  Foreign owned, wanting clean sterile streets for maximum visibility like back in our expensive boring cities of the west.  Late night street based nicely affordable vendors selling food pushed further away.  Makes the place more boring IMO.  I don't frequent LK Metro anyway, except when I wanted fish and chips or the previous 'lamb kebab' stall (gone I believe).  

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Right, if you don't/can't pay they can take the property I assume. Who knows if someone would get the difference back or how long that would take. Same with bank accounts, the entire account could be frozen while they diddle around figuring exactly how much is owed.

I am sure the Thai Revenue Office have the power to make a garnishment order to freeze bank accounts, assets etc.  Probably via a court order. Then you could be forced to relinquish bank funds or have your assets forced sale to pay taxes owed.  Similar to other countries.

On 8/21/2024 at 3:26 PM, Fairynuff said:

Over the (long) period of time I’ve been living here I’ve seen the visa rules change a million times and almost never to make things easier. When every IO has the power to interpret the rules THEIR way instead of following fixed rules, the end result will always be that your status here is precarious. I accepted that long ago, I accepted too that the “powers” don’t really want us here. I spend my money as much as possible with small businesses where I’m sure I’m benefiting “real” people and I’m most likely to be appreciated.

If Thailand wants to compete it has a long way to go but I think the national arrogance will prevent that from happening. The next big issue for me is taxation. I’ve already started bringing cash back with me on regular trips back home. I will not pay tax on inward transfers, I’ll just spend less time here and my plans are already well underway. I’ll just tell Thailand “ I’m not care you”. I’m sure everyone of us has had that little nugget hurled at us more than once.

Be careful.  Firstly, bringing cash via the airport: security will pick that up on the xray scanner.  They may make a record of the amount and that is forwarded to revenue office of an incoming remittance.  I dare say Revenue Office is aware that foreigners will  try to remit money secretly to avoid tax.  

Even if the amount is below the 'declarable' amount, I wouldn't be surprised if the amount is recorded anyway.  Depends how harsh the implementation is.  All it takes is a directive.  

And secondly, exchanging that money.  If you do it yourself (like most of us do), then you need to give your passport.  Guess where that exchange amount may up being recorded? 

Giving it to your 'teerak' to exchange, be careful as she will have her ID details recorded.  If you are on a spouse visa they may join the dots.  

Yes, spending less time in Thailand will now be a part of expat living here.  No longer a full-time lifestyle.  It is a hassle for many of us who have bought so many things - white goods, motorbikes, cars, furniture, TVs, etc.  

I am still in my 50s early medical retired, but wanted a place to settle and heal and live out my life in bloody peace.  But my income setup via my private tax-free superanniation pension in Australia means I am royally screwed at an ultimate 20% tax charged on my spending money.  

If I were to choose to stay, it would be deliberate frugal living to keep the taxes as low as possible and forgo any relationships due not ultimately providing her support financially (most often the case).  How awful that would be?  Better to sell off everything I have accumulated here and relocate elsewhere.  I am so devastated and sad.  But this is the way it probably is.  

And for many of us, having a home base in our country is no longer the case and no family members to rely on. 

And I don't want to be a transient nomad living here and there with some desperate attempt to have at least under 6 months in Thailand.  Can never grow a relationship and make long term friends and feel part of a community. So if Thailand truly go ahead next year, me and many other Aussie pensioners really need to move elsewhere.  And that goes for other nationalities and people with income and remittance setups that aren't taxed.  

My rental property in Australia, which I will sell, will provide me capital gains. Half of that is untaxed in Australia.  So bringing that into Thailand would be incredibly stupid unless I was a non tax-resident.  But who wants to bring in large sums of money into Thailand as a non-tax resident, when Thai bank interest is practically zero percent?  What a huge waste of potential interest income lost from dumping it in a Thai bank. 

But, it is a workaround/loophole for now.

But who is to say that Thailand government won't see what is happening and decide to implement a 'wealth tax' on large deposits!!  Who knows?  

My philosophy has always been to keep the lion's share of my money in Australia and only bring over what I need in portions.  Plus the bank guarantees in Australia and more robust economy, citizen protections, better legal coverage. Anything can happen in Thailand.  

On 8/21/2024 at 2:07 PM, tomacht8 said:

This can be tricky. Thailand already wants to have the tax return for 2024 by March 31, 2025. In my home country I normally have time until May 31, 2025 (with a tax advisor even until December 31, 2025). Who can collect my tax money first and in which direction the DTA will go with the crediting of tax credits? A mammoth, bureaucratic paperwork that no taxpayer wants. Thailand has lost this year from me, around 2-3 million THB in capital imports and domestic consumption alone. No new car, no new refrigerator and no new addition/ maintenance to the house.

100% agreed.

For Aussies: Australian tax year ends 30 June then new tax year from 1 July. So when tax time comes for Thailand, it's half-way through our tax year in Oz.  I don't prepay tax normally and only when return is lodged.  I have until 15 May next year via my accountant.  Not paying tax upfront means I make money on interest until my tax assessment is made.  Now, with the Thai tax enforcement, I would have to pre-pay tax in Australia (to my detriment financially in lost interest at 5.1% and up to 8%), plus pay an accountant to work out a half-year assessment solely for Thailand.  What a f$%$&ng nightmare and costly.  Plus tax accountant fees, certification fees of documents (maybe notarising as well) and maybe a translator for the revenue office.  

Yep, is making it more of a complete nightmare to stay here.  

On 8/21/2024 at 1:26 PM, tomacht8 said:

I know a few people who have stopped or are at least reconsidering their plans to retire in Thailand. Almost everyone has planned to sell their fully paid-up home and transfer the money to Thailand in order to live comfortably along with their regular pension. A single-family home in a big city, in a good location, can be sold for 500K Euros or around 20 million Thai baht. Anyone who then transfers these 20 million THB to Thailand in the hope of enjoying a peaceful retirement runs the risk of having to pay up to 35% in taxes. That would be around 7 million Thai baht or 185K Euros. Nobody who can do math will do that. Therefore, Thailand will lose a large piece of the pie of well-off pensioners in the future.

You would have to have rocks in your head to buy a property in Thailand now unless you are a non-resident or you can prove via certified documents, accountants and tax returns in both countries etc, that the money used to purchase the property was taxed in your country.  Even then, with enforcing this tax, who knows if they will go further and tax worldwide next?  And what else?  I am sorry but Thailand has become a massive risk financially now.  Definitely not worth the dramas, uncertainty and potential future taxes and other changes enforced onto expats who want to stay.  What's next?  

On 8/21/2024 at 12:07 PM, newnative said:

     I've been here since 2010.  In those 14 years, the only change was the requirement for health insurance with my type of visa.  You can get around this with a different visa type.   My country, USA, has a DTA with Thailand so I don't expect to pay any taxes, if the whole tax thing even ever gets off the ground.

     One improvement made was on-line 90-day reporting.   This means only one visit to Immigration a year for the annual renewal.   It would be nice if 90-day was eliminated altogether but, still, not bad.  Looking at neighboring countries, Thailand still seems like a good choice for expats, especially when things like health care and housing variety are factored in.  

This is where your own confirmation bias creeps in.  Because the Thai tax laws won't affect 'me' mantra therefore everyone else shouldn't be complaining.  You are lucky your country has protective DTA arrangements to forbid tax on your social security.

Plenty of us with very different pension schemes that are paying no more than a US Social Security pension, but are not government taxed in host country and not protected by some clause in our DTA - hence fully open to being taxed by Thailand. Australians are screwed. 

And health care?  Triple tiered pricing.  I am no longer able to be covered by insurance for pre-existing conditions that I will need ongoing treatments.  I need to be self-insured and face unfair pricing where I would pay farang prices from money I remit in taxed at 20% (in my case) if I were to bring in all my pension.  When you don't have insurance, hospital admission costs can be financially ruinous with the farang pricing system endorsed by the government and the courts. 

Housing? Paying for a property you now face remittance tax on funds brought in from abroad that potentially add up to 35% more on to the sales price.  Affordable?  You've just made a huge capital loss. Dumbest investment ever.  Nope.  Sorry.  

Rent.  Okay yes. Affordable.  Even if adding another 15-20% tax on pension money sent in to pay the rent.  But as you can see -.just because something doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it's therefore great for everyone. 

On 8/21/2024 at 9:29 AM, Presnock said:

I personally like the LTR from the BOI.  They cut the cost of the 10-year visa in half.  4 different catergories with wealthy pensioner perfect for me meaning not taxes on any funds remitted to Thailand.  The 1-year notification of address can be done by an agent or if you leave the country before the year is up, when you return the 1-year to notify your address starts starts from day one.  The visa has to be updated on the 5th year to ensure one still meets the necessary criteria.  I formerly had a non-imm O for 20 years.  It did get easier doing the 1-year renewal but with the LTR, papework is much less and easier to provide.  Now we await changes as TIT and we have a new govt replacing the new govt we had who replaced the actual winner of the election.  Who knows if this new govt, if it lasts, will continue shooting for the worldwide income taxation or slowly let this current one fade away.  Either way, I am not planning on leaving.  I still love it here but it would be nice to have some stability.  But then what would happen to this forum? 

You are in a low percentage category.  Most of us 'lowlifes' cannot afford the LTR visa.  Only the 'elites' such as yourself can afford it.  So because we are poorer we have to pay tax.  Wow, so fair - NOT.

I thought the whole idea was to reign in taxes of wealthy people bringing in money offshore into Thailand tax free.  So what has changed for wealthy expats bringing in money tax free?  Um....... nothing.  Just get an LTR visa and all is good.  Like is often said, the wealthy don't pay tax, it's for the poor.

Always tax loopholes for the rich.