Tod Daniels

WOW, I've got Thai-Language dot com Dictionary as my home page and never noticed those boxes you can check!!

Thanx for that tip, guess I’m blinder than I thought I was.

To the O/P:

A quick perusal of words ending with ญ yielded 6 common words out of 215 results returned.

For words ending with ธ it had 4 common words out of 75 results, although the word weapon อาวุธ wasn't listed as a common word, but further down in the results.

It would appear you're gonna hafta go thru the results and weed out compound phrases with the words you want mixed in, also example sentences too and sort 'em out that way. Still it does work so you can compile the word endings you want to find.

I don't know how many 'racy' or 'gay/lesbian' words end in the letters you're looking for, but I always go to 'site settings' and click the two tabs which enable 'gay/lesbian' and 'racy' words. It can sometimes yield more up to date usage and slang.

"eric67" thanx again for the tip!

While the O/P's 'friend' has a lot more to his story than most stories I encounter from acquaintances I'd say;

It sure doesn't sound like any of this was your fault. The initial overstay, the lost passport, the first emergency replacement and its subsequent expiration, needing to get a second emergency replacement because they couldnt pull it together, all these things were totally within HIS control and ultimately his fault and only his. Even getting to Changwattana late is on him too! Sheesh every taxi driver in greater Bangkok knows the Governmental Building Complex area out there.

You offered advice based on what you knew or found out. That he didn't follow it isn't anything I'd lose a wink of sleep over or even worry if hes now an ex-friend either.

Interestingly enough (or possibly not):

I've accompanied many acquaintances to Changwattana to pay for their (sometimes lengthy) overstays, get the 'emergency 7 day visa' and then fly outta the country. Even with printed itinerary of a ticket out the next day or so, sometimes the Immigrations officers don't wanna fool with the overstay fine & emergency visa at all.

Too many times to count, I've had acquaintances told by the Immigrations Officer, "Just go to the airport before you fly out and clear it out there..." This is straight from their mouths. In reality, I have no idea why they wouldn't collect the overstay money or sell a visa at Changwattana. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, thats why I dont fool with them that much anymore, cause its a crap shoot on whether theyll do it or not.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've personally witnessed things taking a precipitous turn from a manageable situation at Changwattana to a completely un-manageable one when a foreigner displays ANY attitude or even worse any "sense of entitlement" in regards to their right to be here. It's a very steep down hill slope choosing to go that route with the Officers out there. It's also a really tough climb to getting back up to 'level ground' and achieve your objective too.. I'm in no way advocating, "kissing any a**", but it's my experience a polite deferential manner and calm demeanor go a really long way to getting things accomplished.

Still you tried to help get him sorted and at the end of the day that's all that matters. ..

Sorry for the long follow up post but:

I have to interject a bit of rationality every once and again

It would appear this poster is taking more than a little 'creative license' with the definition of "rationality". It would also appear from the tone of the posts that they've progressed from ‘pin-on nappies' to 'pull-up-diapers' or like we call them in the US; wearing "big boy pants".

IN OTHER TOTALLY ON-TOPIC NEWS:

Since I made this post I've tested it in many locations thru-out greater Bangkok, even areas where Thais were "thick as ticks on a hound dog's back" <-American idiom denoting a large number, (NO denigration of Thais meant or intended ). In all this time I’ve still NOT experienced a single head-on collision with a Thai.

I've also observed by using this technique it's possible to "compel" Thais to alter their course; even if no collision is imminent. You can make them pass on the side you want them to by using this "look past them" technique. I personally find it amazing, as for the most part I've rarely met people less spatially aware of where they are in relation to other things in their perceived reality or their immediate vicinity.

That Thais can and do alter their course when this technique is used leads me to believe this behavioral pattern is quite possibly controlled by the part of the brain which controls the body without us being conscious of it rather than by another area. This "built-in" avoidance mechanism seems to rely on visual cues observed totally unconsciously as a Thai goes 'walk about'.

While my mind truly wobbled errr, boggled at these findings; I couldn't get my anthropology professor to buy off on it as a thesis topic.

FWIW: I still haven't worked out how to pass a Thai walking the same direction when I approach from behind and they are meandering back and forth randomly down the sidewalk. I've tried coughing, emitting a short high pitched whistle, and other techniques with little or no success. Invariably just as you go to walk past them, they 'lunge' into your path. I usually tense up my body in preparation for the collision. Given the fact that for the most part Thais are diminutive; all too often they come out on the 'short end of the stick' in these types of same direction collisions.

I do offer a heartfelt apology to the readers if my acerbic, cynical, overly dry, "call-it-as-I-see-it" sense of humor is lost on anyone, especially the poser <sic> errr, poster known as "Berkshire".

Actually his responses to my post were lost on me as well. They seemed very 'foreign-bashing' in their content and written with a condescending edge to them.

Then again, with a user name like "Berkshire" it could just be a Brit thing. Being American born & bred, I never could understand their style of ‘humorless’ humor.

Anyway, other posters seem to have taken it for what it was meant to be; a tongue in cheek post about something which actually works in real life too!

Excellent post!

I really don't recall all that many other people posting on T/V about going to Rangoon, Burma (Sorry, I use the old names) to get a tourist visas for Thailand.

Still this is good info and sounds like Burma could become an alternative for the foreigner's who've made one too many trips to Vientiane Lao. ..

"desi" I honestly can’t believe they used something word for word off your website and wouldn’t even jump the actual link!! That is extremely poor form.

WOW, when I just checked they did let my more than slightly cranky post get thru! We’ll see if the rebuttal I just made does too.

At least everyone here on T/V already knows I’m far from the most politically correct poster in internet-land!!

Once I wrapped my head around the ‘no spaces in written Thai’, and learned to break words apart solely by sight recognition instead of reading them character by character, I didn’t see it as a negative in any way shape or form. It just became something you need to learn in Thai that you don’t need to do reading engrish. Is it harder, no, not that much once you learn the skill-set. ..

As far as their lame argument about the lack of punctuation in written Thai; there are more than just a few words which give the reader a clue that there is a “,” or a “!”, or even a “?”, in a Thai sentence. Just like there are more than a few words which convey the emotional meaning via the choice of ending particles and/or the tensing of a sentence construct via the use of 'time markers'. I found the better I understand written Thai there is much more richness and diversity in the way things can be expressed. Often-times with subtle differences and nuances you can't always equal in engrish.

Just as an aside because I didn't bother to look it up; does anyone know if there are any languages which were derived from Pali/Sanskrit that are "spaced out" (word by word) in use nowadays?

I agree with aged poster known as "Parvis"; the lynch-pin in self-study is totally keeping your motivation level up. It is a hard slog to keep oneself motivated while going over stuff again and again. This is compounded if what you’re studying doesn’t ‘click’ in your head the first time around . (This is my problem because my brain seems to be running with an old AMD Athlon processor and not near enough RAM )

That's why overall much better results are provided via the private Thai tutor or group lesson scenarios at schools. You're compelled (at least marginally ) to study for the requisite amount of time.

I also hafta agree with "Parvis" again, insofar as all too many schools don't teach high-value, useful vocab or phrases as much as they should.

I've seen students from well-known private Thai language schools attend for over a year's worth of classes. However, they couldn't even begin to tell a taxi "Stop in front of Emporium and let me out", "turn left at the next soi", or “if we take the expressway there won’t be traffic”, etc. Those are, for the most part, just “frozen phrases”; things you can and do use OVER and OVER again here, yet they are NOT taught in many schools I’ve toured.

Coincidentally enough regarding this conundrum ; AUA recently started a program called "Real-Life Bangkok".

You can check it out here;

AUA's Real-Life Bangkok Program

This program is easily the most innovative approach in teaching high-frequency, situational Thai I've seen in a long while. The time is split between in class study of useful vocab and time where a Thai teacher takes you around Bangkok and helps you USE the Thai in the real life situations where you're likely to come across it. As far as their price point goes; it’s not even as much as some Thai language schools are charging for private 1-on-1 lessons!! Plus the class size is limited to no more than 3 people, so you definitely get “bang-4-the-baht”. I’m thinking of taking the course after Songkran when AUA re-opens to gauge the efficacy of this teaching methodology.

Anyway, just thought you should know about it.

BTW: I'm NOT affiliated with AUA, and only offer out my opinions and observations. .

Hi everyone,

<SNIP>I'm keen to do an intensive language course but I only have 8 days (21st - 28th)<SNIP>

Hi,

I dunno if you're gonna find a private Thai language school which will do a week long "Survival Thai" course like that. You might be better off finding a private tutor and maybe working thru Benjawan Becker's Beginning Thai book, or some other similar material.

Just so you know; with the "handful" of Thai christains here and the equally small amount of foreigner of that persuasion here too; Easter sure ain't all that big of a holiday in this "neck 'o the woods", NOT AT ALL!! .

You could try Jentana & Associates, Language Express at Ploen Chit, PRO Language in Times Square, TLS (Thai Language Station) on Silom, Thai Language Solutions on Asok, or some of the other ones out there.

Even though I've toured 20+ private Thai language schools in Bangkok over the last year; offhand I don't know one which offers a week long dealy like you're lookin' for.

I'm certainly NOT saying they don't offer one or couldn't make up a class for your needs, only that I don't know of a school that does it.

Remember MOST if not ALL Thai language schools are gonna be closed from at least the 13th to the 17th (some are closed already this entire week). Youre unlikely to get an email response or someone to pick up the phone if you dont get a hold of em before tomorrow, or after the 17th.

If you want me to call around, send me a P/M and Ill make some calls to schools I know of in Bangkok for you.

<SNIP> Furthermore on the topic of Sek Loso. I thought the band had split up <SNIP>

No Loso hasn't broke up, although the band composition changed quite a while ago. He has his accompanying guitarist (Tom Loso), the bass player is from Smile Buffalo (whose name eludes me), and he still has the foreigner (Eric Loso) on drums.

Glad you weren't too peeved at my post(s)... It's not that often I find foreigners who like Thai rock & roll, as most can't understand the meaning of the lyrics.

(Although I hate to hi-jack your thread); seeing as you don't seem to mind too much , here's another video Loso did with Micro, Big Ass and Body Slam. These bands were NOT known for getting along with each other (on or off stage) AT all! Yet they came together and made this song (possibly because they're all sponsored by Chang beer or on the same record label, dunno). This song came out during the red shirt rally in Bangkok last year, and carries great meaning too.

คนไทยหัวใจเดียวกัน

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vEUuYmEGXI

Interestingly enough; if you listen just before the solo, Loso yells "ช้างเอาเลย". From what I could find, this used to be the ancient battle cry when Thais used elephants in warfare and meant; "Bring on the elephants!". However, in this context I think it's really a nod to their sponsor "Chang beer", and means; "Bring me a Chang beer!", .. Still the double meaning was kinda neat.

You can Google losofc dot com and usually find his current month's tour schedule if you hunt around on the site. It's run by the "Loso Fan Club", which is a 'rabid' group of Thai Loso fans who go to almost EVERY single concert! He routinely plays MANY clubs and venues all over Bangkok each month. I've seen him 20-30 times and he always puts on a good show with TONZ of crowd interaction, taking requests for songs, etc. Sadly, in the smaller venues, after he's had a few drinks, the set does morph into a more freestyle jam-fest but it's still pretty darned good !

Oh, you got ซมซาน pretty close, certainly keep at it! It IS a good way to gain better insight into how the language goes together. In fact, I just toured a private Thai language school which uses the karaoke videos of current Thai music as part of their curriculum in the intermediate Thai class they have.

EDIT: Sorry about the vid, it looks like the audio is outta-sync a little. ..

While this thread is about translating a specific เสก โลโซ song I thought Id jump a You Tube video of him playing a different one . This probably could qualify as the 'unofficial national anthem here.

You cant go anywhere in this entire country and NOT hear the song being played. Ive heard it from Chiang Rai to Hat Yai, Udon Thani to Surat Thani, and Chantaburi to Kanchanaburi.. <- FWIW; I tried to rhyme those,

Heres live version from a LONG time ago; I think it's Sanam Luang in 2002..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7k6gneJAoY

Heres the lyrics too;

ซมซาน - เสก โลโซ

เกิดมาไม่เคยเจอใครเหมือนเธอ

หลับฝันละเมอภาพเธอคอยหลอนทุกคืน

หลับลงคราใดอยากนอนไม่ยอมตื่น

ก็ทุกค่ำคืนเจอเธอที่ปลายฟ้าไกล

ก็ได้แต่เพ้อแต่ฝันลมลม

ก็หลงชื่นชมโดยเธอไม่รู้ตัว

เจอเธอทีไรจิตใจเต้นรัว

ฉันกลัวฉันกลัว กลัวเธอไม่สนใจ

อยากเดินเข้าไปบอกว่ารักเธอ

เวลาที่เจอที่เธอส่งยิ้มมา

เหมือนดั่งโลกนี้สดใสขึ้นทันตา

ในช่วงเวลาที่ต้องการใคร

เข้าใจสักคน

อยากเดินเข้าไปบอกว่ารักเธอ

เวลาที่เจอที่เธอส่งยิ้มมา

เหมือนดั่งโลกนี้สดใสขึ้นทันตา

ในช่วงเวลาที่ต้องการใคร

หากเธอมีใจก็บอกกันสักหน่อย

อย่าให้ฉันคอยคอย เธออย่างนี้เลย

ให้คอยนานนาน มันซมซานรู้ไหมเอ่ย

ยิ่งเธอทำเฉยฉันเองจะบ้าตาย

อยากเดินเข้าไปบอกว่ารักเธอ

เวลาที่เจอที่เธอส่งยิ้มมา

เหมือนดั่งโลกนี้สดใสขึ้นทันตา

ในช่วงเวลาที่ต้องการใคร

เข้าใจสักคน

Enjoy. .

Note to Modz; if this is too off-topic just delete it.

SORRY ABOUT THE LONG POST..

You may already know all this but. ...

Realize that MOST thai songs are written poetically and NOT conversationally.

Many abstract thoughts and emotive feelings are conveyed in ways (and with word constructs) we simply wouldn't use in engrish, yet carry the same meaning in Thai. Try NOT to do word by word translations, look for word groups which carry a different meaning when combined than the individual words. Thats why online translation sites are tough to use. Very few will identify compound words or idioms regularly; although thai-language dot com is getting a LOT better when you use their bulk translation feature!!

Another thing I'm sure you do know, is personal pronouns are routinely left out (just like in casual speech I wouldn't say ผม all the time, when I am speaking first person to someone else). Usually if NO person is designated in the conversation, the person doing the speaking is doing so in the first person. Also realize that in songs, and even in casual conversation amongst friends it's totally okay for a Thai guy to refer to himself as ฉัน. You see this a LOT in songs.

I actually have this song translated somewhere in my music folder but can't find it. I looked on the ethaimusic site but it doesn't have that song under Loso.

FWIW: I think Loso writes about the best Thai rock-n-roll songs meaning-wise out there, as well as having made MILLONS of baht capitalizing on his 'lo-so' image, the exact opposite image of 'hi-so' Thais.

I think Carabaos a washed up, over the hill, total hack (but that's just me). His catch phrase เพลงเพื่อชีวิต should really be เพลงเบื่อชีวิต.

I like Big Ass, Body Slam, Potato, Micro, even older bands like Smile Buffalo, and Stone Metal Fire; หินเหล็กไฟ (which is really the stone known as "flint").. I also like Jintara Poonlarb and even 'aunty' Bird Thongchai too, so I'm quite diverse.

I agree that learning Thai via music can be a good way to start to understanding how the Thai language goes together. It's especially useful with idiomatic phrases and seeing how emotions and 'felt' things are expressed. I've got hundreds of Thai songs and a LOT of what I thought they meant as far as the engrish translations on my p/c, AND have asked for more than my fair share of help here hashing some of them out too.

Keep at it though, any interest and anything you can do to increase your understanding of Thai has value, even if only to you!

I'll do my take on a few lines, for you anyway.

สิ่งเดียวที่ขอร้องเธอก่อนไป

I think this line (without a personal pronoun) and ending with ก่อนไป might mean "before (I) go" like; "I want to ask you one thing before I go."

I also don't think he's 'begging', but that's just my take. When you back translate Thai into engrish, don't forget to re-order the words into the way engrish is spoken.

สิ่งเดียวที่อยากให้ใจเธอรับรู้

Correct; "The one thing I want you to know" The heart/mind word ใจ is used and right after it is the pronoun you เธอ (without the possesive word ของ) but still you could possibly embellish this as "The one thing I want you to know in your heart/mind".

สิ่งเดียวที่อยากให้เธอคิดดูให้รู้ให้คิดก่อนจะจากฉันไป

คิดดู is a "compound word" which means amongst other things; "consider

"The one thing I want you to consider, know and think (about) before I leave.

Kinda sorta like that, at least thats my take on the meaning.

Then again I could be WAY off base as I tend to take a LOT of creative license when I translate Thai back into engrish ..

Other far more illustrious posters than I can give you a better more accurate translation.

On last thing, using Google Thailand you can get lyrics, chord charts and even sometimes the engrish translations on most any Thai song out there, off one site or another.

Good Luck, sorry I couldn't help more. ..

Hmmm, gimme a second to ponder that.. Okay, got it . Possibly for the same reason all Americanz, Auzziez, Kiwiz, Britz, Scotch, or ______ <-(insert your favorite nationality here), get labeled the same way.

It's far easier to lump people into broad all encompassing categories, like say by nationality, than parse out their perceived short-comings person by person.

Sheesh, where’s the fun in that?

Remember; "You can paint a wall WAY faster with a broad brush than a narrow one", although personally I prefer to use a paint-roller in my generalizations of Thais and foreigners for maximum coverage!

BTW: I AM most definitely an "equal opportunity discriminator" I discriminate against ALL people equally without regard to race, creed, color, or any other set of parameters.

Actually in reading that piece here;

For Foreign currency, any person who brings or takes and aggregate amount of foreign currency exceeding USD 20,000 or its equivalent out of or into the Kingdom of Thailand shall declare such amount of foreign currency to Customs. Failure to declare or make false declaration is a criminal offence.

I don't see how it's prohibited to bring in OR take out more. It would appear that either bringing in (as the O/P asked) or taking out an excess of the equivalent 20K USD one simply hasta declare it upon arrival or departure at Customs.

I know when I flew in here 5+ years ago I came here with quite a bit of US currency (like a really, really big pile of it)!

It was FAR harder getting outta the US, even though I had the cash declaration form for amounts over 10K USD. They held me up at US Customs in LAX until my flight almost left without me!

When I arrived here; Thai customs at Don Muang didn't even care or wanna see either the money or the form from the US saying I left there with cash. They just laughed it off and motioned me thru the 'nothing to declare' line.

This is the form I used when I flew outta the US. I dunno if it's still the correct one;

Cash Declaration Form.pdf

Edit: I see another poster already put the form on here, sorry if I put an out of date one on here.

So, to see if I understand the O/P's posts I’ll re-cap it for my own benefit.

The O/P neglected to get a re-entry permit when he flew out, and his yearly extension of stay was canceled by that oversight.

He returned to Thailand and was given a 30 day "visa-exempt" stamp at Suvarnabhumi.

He then went to Changwattana applied for and received a single entry Non-O 90 day visa.

When visa was down to about a month left, he went back out to Changwattana and got a yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

His ONLY proof of meeting the financial requirements was the US Embassy letter.

Is that close to what other people got from reading these posts?

FWIW: I hope when the O/P was at Changwattana getting his "yearly extension of stay", also purchased at least single re-entry permit for 1000baht. Those things are worth their weight in gold when you need to leave on an emergency.

I do see reports now that Suvarnabhumi will sell re-entry permits from 6AM until midnite for people needing one before they fly out.

Good report, (especially so if I got the re-cap right!)

While off-topic: This would somewhat lend credence to my assertions that NOT every American is being compelled TO SUPPLY additional proof of income. (Another thread on here)

The O/P was asked by the Immigrations officer if he had additional proof but replied he did not and he was still approved!

Mrjih, your description of events says you converted a visa exempt entry, or a tourist visa, to a Non Imm visa. If correct, a couple of questions:

Since you need to have met the retirement extension requirements to do the conversion, was showing just the 65k income letter sufficient -- or did they want a bank letter too, as they did for the subsequent extension 2 months later?

Was the income letter from the Embassy the same one you subsequently used 2 months later? (I ask, because I remember a report, or reports, of Immigration taking the income letter when the conversion took place, and requiring a new one 2 months later for the extension.)

Thanks.

I've had instances where acquaintances have entered on a 30 day "visa exempt stamp", we went to Immigrations AND did the "two step process". First Immigrations issued them a single entry 90 day Non-Immigrant Type-O visa, then they processed the yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

Sometimes Immigrations did this on the same visit as in both 'steps' at once. Sometimes they made the person come back after the 90 day non-o was down to about a month left. I tried but couldn't figure out any rhyme or reason on how they made the choice to either do them both at once or make someone come back. I've seen it go both ways.

In those instances; the people were using the US Embassy letter as sole proof of funds. If I remember correctly, I think one guy was using the US Embassy letter and the Bank Letter (money in a Thai bank) meaning he used the "combination method" to hit the 800K baht. However, both those methods require no 'seasoning of funds'.

BTW: Immigrations was gracious enough when making the person return in 60+ days for their yearly extension to let them keep the original US Embassy letter. They took a color copy for the Non-O 90 day visa. They coulda just as easily said, go get a new one, but they didn't. Thank the Goddess for small favors..

We agree the evidence is insufficient to proclaim an actual enforcement policy change on this issue is actually in force even at one office. But the evidence that it isn't is not overwhelming either. That's why I say -- keep reporting, keep watching it, <>SNIPPPED>

We are in 100%! agreement!!

<SNIP> Especially in these enforcement policy variations from office to office, it's tricky to figure out what's going on. Of course, sometimes there is just one officer with interesting creative ideas. <SNIP>

On this we must agree to agree also!!

I HATE the disparity in requirements by the Thai Immigrations offices scattered around the country.

This problem was only made worse by Immigrations implementing their "Zone Policy" telling people where they hafta go based on where they live.

Some of the newer Immigrations Offices staff take entirely too much creative license in their interpretation of the rules and the documentation they require.

I guess, I should be thankful (for now at least) that I deal only with Changwattana. ..

For the most part, I believe the O/P's post (especially now that the extension v/s visa was cleared up ).

In reading the post he provided TONZ of documentation! I mean literally he showed up with a veritable "pile 'o paperwork". In situations I've observed like this, Immigrations will usually take the stack, especially once the relevant documents are found in the pile. They will usually hang onto anything if has to do with meeting financial requirements. I did find it of interest that they used the calculator and converted the USD to Baht. That would lead me to believe they accepted AND used the Embassy letter.

Things that make me think this wasn't about additional proof being REQUIRED are;

1) He was not told he needed anything more than the US Embassy letter.

2) He was not asked for additional proof to support it (he provided it before hand).

3) He was not asked for a bank letter (again, he provided it without being asked).

I somewhat doubt the veracity of the statement

"They want to see you actually have money in the bank. The more the better in their eyes.."

I'm on the fence about this one. .. I honestly believe it'd have flown thru just fine with the US Embassy letter alone without the pile of support documentation he turned in with it.

Still at the end of the day, he got the extension of stay, so it worked out. Now did he really need everything he supplied? For me, sorry, the fact that Immigrations accepted the documents is not evidence enough to me that they were even actually required to begin with.

FWIW: I don't wish to turn this into a pissing match either. This is ALL about objective evidence for me too!

This one falls a little short of the mark as far as hard evidence one way or the other about the ability to use the US Embassy letter as a stand alone document for verification of sufficient funds in securing an extension of stay.

Ok, as an American, I went to the Chaengwattana Immigration Office this morning to get my "Non-O" 90 day changed to a Non-O Retirement VISA.<SNIPPED>

I mean NO disrespect but in reading your post, I couldn't tell if:

You had the full 800K in a Thai bank account (seasoned for the proper time) and used that method.

OR possibly if you used the Embassy letter for a portion of the funds and had some money in a Thai bank to make up the difference, known as the "combination method".

OR did you use the Embassy letter with no additional proof?

OR did you just cover your bases and bring everything with you?

Honestly I'm being serious, I couldn't tell from reading your post because you say you took the "bank letter" which I assume was from a bank HERE, and you brought the letter from the US Embassy too with proof to back that up as well. It was slightly muddy in my eyes what you used to qualify for the extension, and I read it twice!

Still good you got the extension. I knew today would be a mad house out there.

That 'head officer' (the lady who sits in the back corner by #35) and who initials your stuff at the end, was the one I asked about the embassy letter being okay or not, and the one who answered me in Thai, "It's from YOUR Embassy! Why wouldn't it be okay?"

As a totally off topic aside: If I read your post correctly, you showed up there with a 90 day Non-O visa already, is that correct?

If it is, I think you didn't get a year long Non-O "VISA". .. I think you received a "yearly extension of stay based on retirement" from the 90 day Non-O visa you had. Your stamp should have taken up about about half a passport page with the exact wording;

SUB-DIV. 2 IMM-DIV.1

EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO ______ <- (a stamp year from when your current non-o would expire)

HOLDER MUST LEAVE THE KINGDOM WITHIN THE

DATE SPECIFIED HEREIN, OFFENDERS WILL BE

PROSECUTED

SIGNED______ <-(some thai signature)

DATE____ <- (a stamp of today's date)

NOTICE

-TO KEEP YOUR STAY PERMIT RE-ENTRY PERMIT

MUST BE MADE BEFORE LEAVING THAILAND

-NOTIFICATION OF RESIDENCE MUST BE

MADE EVERY 90 DAYS

They also stamp the word RETIREMENT on it and it'll have 4 numbers a / and two more numbers written in pen too.

If I'm wrong, I'm totally sorry, but a quick look at your passport would show it.

I've just never EVER seen a year long Non-Immigrant Type-O Visa issued, only extensions of stays based on what ever you're extending for (marriage, education, retirement, business, etc).

Lemme know what it says as you've piqued my curiosity. ..

Because I am curious (and not being a cat that isn't usually fatal ) and because I want to get to the bottom of this quagmire; I just called Sunbelt Asia (a sponsor of this very forum, no less).

I asked them if they recently had Immigrations request any other documentation when using the Embassy letter as sole proof of funds to secure an extension of stay based on retirement for American clients.

He said at this time they HAVE NOT had it happen, not even a single time.

Now Sunbelt is a HUGE ball 'o wax which among other things specializes in securing visas for foreigners. Quite possibly they run more foreigners thru Changwattana during the year then all the other companies who do visas for foreigners combined. I mean I see their representative(s) every single time I'm out there!

I’m fully aware that they might be given some 'preferential treatment’ by Immigrations. Still, if this was happening, I think they'd certainly know something about it, don't you?

The fact that they haven't even had a single case nor have they heard of it, hmmm. I dunno take it for what it's worth.

tod-daniels --

The reports became more important after we got a few reports that applicants were told explicitly at one office that the ENFORCEMENT POLICY had changed for Americans. This isn't really about going back historically, it's about checking to see whether this is really an enforcement policy change going on NOW, and if so, limited to which office(s)?

Quite the adversarial tone there doncha think; “Real-Thing”?

I made this post on page 7 of this thread after going to Changwattana on MONDAY of this week!

My Post in This Thread

I don't even how people are hearing it is an explicit enforcement policy change for Americans. Most foreigners I routinely see out there can't speak more than 2-word-toutist-thai and most immigrations officers out there know just a little more english than they need to so they can do their jobs effectively . It is my experience that ANY deep meaningful conversations about the intricacies of the Immigration rules and/or their interpretation are few and far between , unless you can conduct them in Thai or have a native Thai speaker in your back pocket.

Coincidentally the guy I accompanied WAS in fact American and was NOT asked for further proof. ..

This ain't a hysterical errr, historical reflection on my past experiences, but something that actually happened on Monday (as in 4 days ago). True it is in the past, but just slightly so.

I don't see how my experience isn't proof that they certainly aren't asking every; Tom, Dick & Somchai who happens to be American for additional documentation for sufficient funds when using the embassy letter as proof.

If it wasn't so damned close to Songkran I'd venture out to the Buddy Lodge Hotel on KhaoSan Road this coming Tuesday when the Thai Immigrations has their "all-in-one" mobile service at that location and ask one of the officers myself.

However, given the HUGE number of foreign miscreants who routinely start Songkran early ; I don't wanna be any where near KhaoSan Road, even if it is a day before the holiday officially starts!!

Again, given the relatively FEW reports we've had about being asked for extra documentation, I still don't believe it's an "across the board" or a sweeping change in interpretation of policy until I encounter it first hand. The reports are too few and far between and can be read too ambiguously to be taken as gospel. Is it good advice to go prepared, perhaps, but for me the jury's still out.

Sadly I don't have anything "in the works" retirement extension-wise with any Americans until well AFTER Songkran, just some 90 day reports to turn in.

I'm going to go do them at Bumrungrad Hospital on the 19th when Thai Immigrations has the 'all-in-one' mobile service at that location.

Maybe one of the Immigrations officers there will know more about this. Then again maybe I'll just hang around there and eavesdrop on peoples’ experiences and report back on my findings.

Believe me IF I'd heard or seen anything concrete in regards to this topic, I'd be the first to say, Yep, it's true.. So far I just ain't seen it with my own two eyes.

Some how with videos like this still available for perusal I don't know how the red shirt supporters, errr apologists , are gonna spin it that the red leaders didn't advocate burning Bangkok down during the rally. ..

FWIW: this is NOT a fake red, NOT a yellow dressed in red nor a man in black, but one of the Red Shirt leaders, political firebrand (still on the run) none other than Arisman Pongruangrong himself.

Anyway you try to interpret the spoken dialog; the evidence seems pretty damning insofar as the red leaders DID instigate and even encourage their supporters to do bad things.

Now whether the redz were soley responsible for setting 'every' fire in Bangkok, I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of that story.

FWIW: I couldn't find the one that had the engrish translation, so if you can't understand spoken thai, have someone translate it for you.

Just from the tone of his voice it certainly doesn't sound like he was talking to the red rabble with a 'tongue-in-cheek' or joking attitude.

This is truly the thread that will not die. ..

I'm ALL for sharing experiences we encounter at Thai Immigrations but I believe there are far too few people being required to ‘show additional proof’ after submitting the verification of income document notarized by ACS at the US Embassy when trying to secure a yearly extension of stay to say this is an ‘all encompassing’ sweeping change in immigration policy. It's even wackier to say it's some sort of concerted effort by Thai Immigrations to use ‘racial profiling based on nationality’. I think it's putting the cart before the horse to make statements like that or to believe this is a 'cut and dried' policy change to the interpretation of visa rules here.

Unless I looked at my files, I honestly can’t even remember the real number of acquaintances I’ve accompanied to secure extensions of stay over the last coupla years, but easily, it’s well over 100 people. They were of many different nationalities.

I’d say 4 out of 5 acquaintances from the US used the verification of income document from ACS as their sole means of meeting the financial requirements. Some did use the 800K baht ‘bank method’ and a few even used the ‘combined-method’. I have personally never ever seen one kicked back nor has a single one ever been asked for additional supporting documentation when using just the letter from ACS-US Embassy. NOT EVER!.

Again, these are my experiences ONLY.. Even though I go to Changwattana 4 or 5 times a month for various & sundry things; I highly doubt just because many officers know me by sight or name, that any acquaintances I accompany are treated differently from anyone else out there.

I do NOT doubt the veracity of other posters statements; who said they were asked for additional support documentation, ONLY stating I’ve never experienced it first hand.

Conversely, I wonder what woulda happened IF someone woulda had the balls to question an Immigrations officer by saying, “I have no other proof with me. This letter comes from MY embassy and is all the proof I need, isn’t it?”

While I did post the letter you fill out from the US Embassy pages back in this thread, I’ll post it again if you want to use it;

Income Affividat.pdf

Oh FWIW: on the times I've accompanied acquaintances to the ACS office in Bangkok at the US Embassy, I always tell them to use gross income as the dollar amount.

Flying out of Thailand at least at Suvarnabhumi, I know for certain, passport control won't care if you do or don't do your 90 day check-in paperwork. That's just NOT their job!

Personally I dunno why you'd forgo it based just on "what you'd heard" no matter who you heard it from. The rules are clearly the rules here. Then again you seem not to care all that much about the 2000-5000 baht fine which can be imposed for failure to report. The only time I've seen people 'caught out' was when they were renewing another year's extension of stay, and I have seen a fair number of those first hand.

Anecdotally: I was out at Changwattana a while back, turning in a handful of passports for their 90 day reporting. I had the very next queue number to be called, but alas it was 12:00. I knew one of the officers as I'm out there a couple times a month so asked if she could 'help me out'. She graciously took the 4 or 5 passports I had with me and entered them in. This was after they'd run everyone else out and even turned off the lights to the office.

While she was doing this, I asked her if I could see what info they had on their p/c. She let me come around the desk and look. Surprisingly, they DO keep quite a lot of info on foreigners. Nationality, p/p#, p/p issued on & expiration date, DOB, sex, original visa type, type of extension of stay, last extension renewed on date, extension to expire on date, last date and point of entry into the kingdom, departure card #, last report date, and penalties assessed for late and/or failure to report. It was pretty interesting really.

In our conversation while she was doing the data entry, she mentioned their database is strictly 'in-house' (as in ONLY in that room) .. It wasn't tied into any other database either at Changwattana, the border crossings, or even the 90-day reporting offices at other Thai Immigrations locations.

She did say they would be combining their data base with the other offices and the Changwattana main database "sometime in the future" . Now with this being Thailand, that could mean tomorrow, next week, next month, or quite possibly theyll never get around to it.

Learn to read Thai.

I agree, get away from the transliterations asap!

I must agree with the previous posters;

The faster you can get away from karaoke Thai (thai written in engrish), the faster you'll get the hang of the language. I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer but I was able to teach myself to read Thai. If I can, anyone can . ..

Same with tone rules.

I found a simple chart explaining the tone rules and now it's imprinted in my brain. When I come across a word I don't recognise I picture this chart in my mind and most times I can get the tone right.

I'd ALSO like a copy of the tone chart "Krading" mentions (perhaps they'd be kind enough to post it ) as I never ever learned the consonant class or tone rules.

I learned to read Thai words solely by memorization and recognizing by sight a specific set of consonants, vowels & tone marks equals a particular word and to a lesser extent via context in a sentence. The ONLY tones I'm sure on are high-frequency words with either the falling or rising tones. The others I tend to 'blur' together when speaking Thai.

For some reason, even though I've tried several times; the tone rules just don't 'stick' in my head. It didn’t help that I learned the Thai consonants by the sound the letter makes; "K's", "T's", "S's", "F's", "P's", etc, instead of the correct way, by consonant class.

Be that as it may, I can read & understand most things I have an interest in. I'd imagine learning the correct way would certainly help clear up my whacky toned spoken Thai 555+. Still, I find the Thais I speak to more than able to understand me; once they wrap their head around my foreign accented and poorly toned Thai.

I applaud the O/P in their effort to learn Thai, but I still think the faster they can get away from reading Thai via “karaoke” the faster they'll learn Thai.

Good Luck , hang in there, don’t get discouraged !!

As an aside to this mind-wobbling, err boggling, yet mildly interesting thread:

I accompanied yet another acquaintance to Changwattana this week to secure a yearly extension of stay based on retirement. He was from the USA and used the "income document" from the US Embassy here in Bangkok as proof. In fact he had NO (as in ZERO) other proof of income with him at the time. Having read every post on this thread with 'bated breath' before I went and even though Ive accompanied many, many people thru the process; I was a teensy bit apprehensive of the possible outcomes.

The extension of stay went as "smooth as silk". We were out of the area where you get this type of extension a scant 10 minutes after sitting down in front of the Immigrations Officer. All she did was use a calculator to convert the US Dollars to Thai Baht and note the figure on the paper like they always do.

As we were leaving, I took the time to ask the officer who does the last step in the process; initials the stamps on your documents, the one in your passport and who sits at the little desk in the back right corner, IN Thai; if the document from the US Embassy was sufficient proof for adequate funds?

Now for the most part, Thais are pretty good at not telegraphing emotion on their face. Really though, she looked at me like I was totally crazy and relied; "The document comes stamped from YOUR embassy! Why would you think it wouldn't be okay?"

That was my experience out there this week. If it happens to run counter to your experience well, sorry 'bout that. ..

Sorry this is long; you may still find it of value if you stick with it .

I've had the displeasure to sit thru more 'mind-numbing' totally b/s engrish classes taught in Thai schools up-country than I care to count. I can say wholeheartedly the biggest impediment to Thai kids learning something that resembles engrish is the methodology used in teaching it. The solution is not simply throwing money at the problem. That won’t begin to re-vamp the totally antiquated, ultra-controlled and terribly skewed system in place for learning.

This is not limited to engrish by any wild stretch of the imagination, but is seen in every subject. Things are taught here by rote alone. They are totally pounded into the students’ heads over and over. The students never ask questions, just copy text off the board, sit thru lecture after lecture on the subject and then test out via exams. The “no-child-left-behind” initiative which is in place now makes even failing a class not an option. There are more than just anecdotal evidence of foreigners teaching engrish being called into the principal’s office after an exam and being told “These grades are unacceptable; change the grades so everyone passes your class!”

The 'face loss' factor is quite possibly the biggest hindrance to effectively learning any subject. Buddha help us when a student raises their hand and asks a teacher to better explain something! Oh, what a can 'o worms that would open concerning "loss-'o-face". The teacher could ‘lose face’ for not explaining things clearly or (much more likely) the student would ‘lose face’ (and possibly be ridiculed by the teacher) for not understanding. It’s almost hard-wired to be a lose/lose situation. Sheesh, if you don't understand, raise your hand and say, "I'm sorry, could you explain that in another way?" I'm sure the student who asked wasn't the only one in class who didn't understand, they were just the only one who had the balls to ask about it.

The hierarchy or 'pecking-order' in Thai schools seems to be purposefully designed to “choke the life” out of any new teacher who has initiative or wants to use innovative teaching techniques. Imagine if a Thai teacher "thought-outside-the-box", encouraged students to ASK questions, encouraged interaction in class and at least began to teach students to use rudimentary critical thinking skills. Ask the 'old guard' which really control the education field this question and they'd say classes would become total chaos! It's exactly that mind-set that has held back generation after generation of Thai students except the uber-rich.

Thankfully in a more 'connected' world, Thailand will either hafta step up or shut up in the not so near future. I have met many Thai students who are starting to question the status quo, insofar as the quality of their education. It will be a long, slow, painful process to revamp something as deeply entrenched as the education sector, but it can happen.

I totally agree; any Thai who even becomes semi-proficient in engrish is snapped up by the private sector either here or abroad. Face it, who would want to be employed in the over-controlled, stifling, mind-numbing education sector? I think they'd rather work for a ‘real’ company where initiative and creative skills are looked at as a benefit instead of as a detriment.

Sometimes I tell my Thai friends in jest; the reason Thais don't “think outside the box” is because no one ever told them there even was a “box” to begin with.