Tod Daniels

Ok, as an American, I went to the Chaengwattana Immigration Office this morning to get my "Non-O" 90 day changed to a Non-O Retirement VISA.<SNIPPED>

I mean NO disrespect but in reading your post, I couldn't tell if:

You had the full 800K in a Thai bank account (seasoned for the proper time) and used that method.

OR possibly if you used the Embassy letter for a portion of the funds and had some money in a Thai bank to make up the difference, known as the "combination method".

OR did you use the Embassy letter with no additional proof?

OR did you just cover your bases and bring everything with you?

Honestly I'm being serious, I couldn't tell from reading your post because you say you took the "bank letter" which I assume was from a bank HERE, and you brought the letter from the US Embassy too with proof to back that up as well. It was slightly muddy in my eyes what you used to qualify for the extension, and I read it twice!

Still good you got the extension. I knew today would be a mad house out there.

That 'head officer' (the lady who sits in the back corner by #35) and who initials your stuff at the end, was the one I asked about the embassy letter being okay or not, and the one who answered me in Thai, "It's from YOUR Embassy! Why wouldn't it be okay?"

As a totally off topic aside: If I read your post correctly, you showed up there with a 90 day Non-O visa already, is that correct?

If it is, I think you didn't get a year long Non-O "VISA". .. I think you received a "yearly extension of stay based on retirement" from the 90 day Non-O visa you had. Your stamp should have taken up about about half a passport page with the exact wording;

SUB-DIV. 2 IMM-DIV.1

EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO ______ <- (a stamp year from when your current non-o would expire)

HOLDER MUST LEAVE THE KINGDOM WITHIN THE

DATE SPECIFIED HEREIN, OFFENDERS WILL BE

PROSECUTED

SIGNED______ <-(some thai signature)

DATE____ <- (a stamp of today's date)

NOTICE

-TO KEEP YOUR STAY PERMIT RE-ENTRY PERMIT

MUST BE MADE BEFORE LEAVING THAILAND

-NOTIFICATION OF RESIDENCE MUST BE

MADE EVERY 90 DAYS

They also stamp the word RETIREMENT on it and it'll have 4 numbers a / and two more numbers written in pen too.

If I'm wrong, I'm totally sorry, but a quick look at your passport would show it.

I've just never EVER seen a year long Non-Immigrant Type-O Visa issued, only extensions of stays based on what ever you're extending for (marriage, education, retirement, business, etc).

Lemme know what it says as you've piqued my curiosity. ..

Because I am curious (and not being a cat that isn't usually fatal ) and because I want to get to the bottom of this quagmire; I just called Sunbelt Asia (a sponsor of this very forum, no less).

I asked them if they recently had Immigrations request any other documentation when using the Embassy letter as sole proof of funds to secure an extension of stay based on retirement for American clients.

He said at this time they HAVE NOT had it happen, not even a single time.

Now Sunbelt is a HUGE ball 'o wax which among other things specializes in securing visas for foreigners. Quite possibly they run more foreigners thru Changwattana during the year then all the other companies who do visas for foreigners combined. I mean I see their representative(s) every single time I'm out there!

I’m fully aware that they might be given some 'preferential treatment’ by Immigrations. Still, if this was happening, I think they'd certainly know something about it, don't you?

The fact that they haven't even had a single case nor have they heard of it, hmmm. I dunno take it for what it's worth.

tod-daniels --

The reports became more important after we got a few reports that applicants were told explicitly at one office that the ENFORCEMENT POLICY had changed for Americans. This isn't really about going back historically, it's about checking to see whether this is really an enforcement policy change going on NOW, and if so, limited to which office(s)?

Quite the adversarial tone there doncha think; “Real-Thing”?

I made this post on page 7 of this thread after going to Changwattana on MONDAY of this week!

My Post in This Thread

I don't even how people are hearing it is an explicit enforcement policy change for Americans. Most foreigners I routinely see out there can't speak more than 2-word-toutist-thai and most immigrations officers out there know just a little more english than they need to so they can do their jobs effectively . It is my experience that ANY deep meaningful conversations about the intricacies of the Immigration rules and/or their interpretation are few and far between , unless you can conduct them in Thai or have a native Thai speaker in your back pocket.

Coincidentally the guy I accompanied WAS in fact American and was NOT asked for further proof. ..

This ain't a hysterical errr, historical reflection on my past experiences, but something that actually happened on Monday (as in 4 days ago). True it is in the past, but just slightly so.

I don't see how my experience isn't proof that they certainly aren't asking every; Tom, Dick & Somchai who happens to be American for additional documentation for sufficient funds when using the embassy letter as proof.

If it wasn't so damned close to Songkran I'd venture out to the Buddy Lodge Hotel on KhaoSan Road this coming Tuesday when the Thai Immigrations has their "all-in-one" mobile service at that location and ask one of the officers myself.

However, given the HUGE number of foreign miscreants who routinely start Songkran early ; I don't wanna be any where near KhaoSan Road, even if it is a day before the holiday officially starts!!

Again, given the relatively FEW reports we've had about being asked for extra documentation, I still don't believe it's an "across the board" or a sweeping change in interpretation of policy until I encounter it first hand. The reports are too few and far between and can be read too ambiguously to be taken as gospel. Is it good advice to go prepared, perhaps, but for me the jury's still out.

Sadly I don't have anything "in the works" retirement extension-wise with any Americans until well AFTER Songkran, just some 90 day reports to turn in.

I'm going to go do them at Bumrungrad Hospital on the 19th when Thai Immigrations has the 'all-in-one' mobile service at that location.

Maybe one of the Immigrations officers there will know more about this. Then again maybe I'll just hang around there and eavesdrop on peoples’ experiences and report back on my findings.

Believe me IF I'd heard or seen anything concrete in regards to this topic, I'd be the first to say, Yep, it's true.. So far I just ain't seen it with my own two eyes.

Some how with videos like this still available for perusal I don't know how the red shirt supporters, errr apologists , are gonna spin it that the red leaders didn't advocate burning Bangkok down during the rally. ..

FWIW: this is NOT a fake red, NOT a yellow dressed in red nor a man in black, but one of the Red Shirt leaders, political firebrand (still on the run) none other than Arisman Pongruangrong himself.

Anyway you try to interpret the spoken dialog; the evidence seems pretty damning insofar as the red leaders DID instigate and even encourage their supporters to do bad things.

Now whether the redz were soley responsible for setting 'every' fire in Bangkok, I don't think anyone will ever get to the bottom of that story.

FWIW: I couldn't find the one that had the engrish translation, so if you can't understand spoken thai, have someone translate it for you.

Just from the tone of his voice it certainly doesn't sound like he was talking to the red rabble with a 'tongue-in-cheek' or joking attitude.

This is truly the thread that will not die. ..

I'm ALL for sharing experiences we encounter at Thai Immigrations but I believe there are far too few people being required to ‘show additional proof’ after submitting the verification of income document notarized by ACS at the US Embassy when trying to secure a yearly extension of stay to say this is an ‘all encompassing’ sweeping change in immigration policy. It's even wackier to say it's some sort of concerted effort by Thai Immigrations to use ‘racial profiling based on nationality’. I think it's putting the cart before the horse to make statements like that or to believe this is a 'cut and dried' policy change to the interpretation of visa rules here.

Unless I looked at my files, I honestly can’t even remember the real number of acquaintances I’ve accompanied to secure extensions of stay over the last coupla years, but easily, it’s well over 100 people. They were of many different nationalities.

I’d say 4 out of 5 acquaintances from the US used the verification of income document from ACS as their sole means of meeting the financial requirements. Some did use the 800K baht ‘bank method’ and a few even used the ‘combined-method’. I have personally never ever seen one kicked back nor has a single one ever been asked for additional supporting documentation when using just the letter from ACS-US Embassy. NOT EVER!.

Again, these are my experiences ONLY.. Even though I go to Changwattana 4 or 5 times a month for various & sundry things; I highly doubt just because many officers know me by sight or name, that any acquaintances I accompany are treated differently from anyone else out there.

I do NOT doubt the veracity of other posters statements; who said they were asked for additional support documentation, ONLY stating I’ve never experienced it first hand.

Conversely, I wonder what woulda happened IF someone woulda had the balls to question an Immigrations officer by saying, “I have no other proof with me. This letter comes from MY embassy and is all the proof I need, isn’t it?”

While I did post the letter you fill out from the US Embassy pages back in this thread, I’ll post it again if you want to use it;

Income Affividat.pdf

Oh FWIW: on the times I've accompanied acquaintances to the ACS office in Bangkok at the US Embassy, I always tell them to use gross income as the dollar amount.

Flying out of Thailand at least at Suvarnabhumi, I know for certain, passport control won't care if you do or don't do your 90 day check-in paperwork. That's just NOT their job!

Personally I dunno why you'd forgo it based just on "what you'd heard" no matter who you heard it from. The rules are clearly the rules here. Then again you seem not to care all that much about the 2000-5000 baht fine which can be imposed for failure to report. The only time I've seen people 'caught out' was when they were renewing another year's extension of stay, and I have seen a fair number of those first hand.

Anecdotally: I was out at Changwattana a while back, turning in a handful of passports for their 90 day reporting. I had the very next queue number to be called, but alas it was 12:00. I knew one of the officers as I'm out there a couple times a month so asked if she could 'help me out'. She graciously took the 4 or 5 passports I had with me and entered them in. This was after they'd run everyone else out and even turned off the lights to the office.

While she was doing this, I asked her if I could see what info they had on their p/c. She let me come around the desk and look. Surprisingly, they DO keep quite a lot of info on foreigners. Nationality, p/p#, p/p issued on & expiration date, DOB, sex, original visa type, type of extension of stay, last extension renewed on date, extension to expire on date, last date and point of entry into the kingdom, departure card #, last report date, and penalties assessed for late and/or failure to report. It was pretty interesting really.

In our conversation while she was doing the data entry, she mentioned their database is strictly 'in-house' (as in ONLY in that room) .. It wasn't tied into any other database either at Changwattana, the border crossings, or even the 90-day reporting offices at other Thai Immigrations locations.

She did say they would be combining their data base with the other offices and the Changwattana main database "sometime in the future" . Now with this being Thailand, that could mean tomorrow, next week, next month, or quite possibly theyll never get around to it.

Learn to read Thai.

I agree, get away from the transliterations asap!

I must agree with the previous posters;

The faster you can get away from karaoke Thai (thai written in engrish), the faster you'll get the hang of the language. I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer but I was able to teach myself to read Thai. If I can, anyone can . ..

Same with tone rules.

I found a simple chart explaining the tone rules and now it's imprinted in my brain. When I come across a word I don't recognise I picture this chart in my mind and most times I can get the tone right.

I'd ALSO like a copy of the tone chart "Krading" mentions (perhaps they'd be kind enough to post it ) as I never ever learned the consonant class or tone rules.

I learned to read Thai words solely by memorization and recognizing by sight a specific set of consonants, vowels & tone marks equals a particular word and to a lesser extent via context in a sentence. The ONLY tones I'm sure on are high-frequency words with either the falling or rising tones. The others I tend to 'blur' together when speaking Thai.

For some reason, even though I've tried several times; the tone rules just don't 'stick' in my head. It didn’t help that I learned the Thai consonants by the sound the letter makes; "K's", "T's", "S's", "F's", "P's", etc, instead of the correct way, by consonant class.

Be that as it may, I can read & understand most things I have an interest in. I'd imagine learning the correct way would certainly help clear up my whacky toned spoken Thai 555+. Still, I find the Thais I speak to more than able to understand me; once they wrap their head around my foreign accented and poorly toned Thai.

I applaud the O/P in their effort to learn Thai, but I still think the faster they can get away from reading Thai via “karaoke” the faster they'll learn Thai.

Good Luck , hang in there, don’t get discouraged !!

As an aside to this mind-wobbling, err boggling, yet mildly interesting thread:

I accompanied yet another acquaintance to Changwattana this week to secure a yearly extension of stay based on retirement. He was from the USA and used the "income document" from the US Embassy here in Bangkok as proof. In fact he had NO (as in ZERO) other proof of income with him at the time. Having read every post on this thread with 'bated breath' before I went and even though Ive accompanied many, many people thru the process; I was a teensy bit apprehensive of the possible outcomes.

The extension of stay went as "smooth as silk". We were out of the area where you get this type of extension a scant 10 minutes after sitting down in front of the Immigrations Officer. All she did was use a calculator to convert the US Dollars to Thai Baht and note the figure on the paper like they always do.

As we were leaving, I took the time to ask the officer who does the last step in the process; initials the stamps on your documents, the one in your passport and who sits at the little desk in the back right corner, IN Thai; if the document from the US Embassy was sufficient proof for adequate funds?

Now for the most part, Thais are pretty good at not telegraphing emotion on their face. Really though, she looked at me like I was totally crazy and relied; "The document comes stamped from YOUR embassy! Why would you think it wouldn't be okay?"

That was my experience out there this week. If it happens to run counter to your experience well, sorry 'bout that. ..

Sorry this is long; you may still find it of value if you stick with it .

I've had the displeasure to sit thru more 'mind-numbing' totally b/s engrish classes taught in Thai schools up-country than I care to count. I can say wholeheartedly the biggest impediment to Thai kids learning something that resembles engrish is the methodology used in teaching it. The solution is not simply throwing money at the problem. That won’t begin to re-vamp the totally antiquated, ultra-controlled and terribly skewed system in place for learning.

This is not limited to engrish by any wild stretch of the imagination, but is seen in every subject. Things are taught here by rote alone. They are totally pounded into the students’ heads over and over. The students never ask questions, just copy text off the board, sit thru lecture after lecture on the subject and then test out via exams. The “no-child-left-behind” initiative which is in place now makes even failing a class not an option. There are more than just anecdotal evidence of foreigners teaching engrish being called into the principal’s office after an exam and being told “These grades are unacceptable; change the grades so everyone passes your class!”

The 'face loss' factor is quite possibly the biggest hindrance to effectively learning any subject. Buddha help us when a student raises their hand and asks a teacher to better explain something! Oh, what a can 'o worms that would open concerning "loss-'o-face". The teacher could ‘lose face’ for not explaining things clearly or (much more likely) the student would ‘lose face’ (and possibly be ridiculed by the teacher) for not understanding. It’s almost hard-wired to be a lose/lose situation. Sheesh, if you don't understand, raise your hand and say, "I'm sorry, could you explain that in another way?" I'm sure the student who asked wasn't the only one in class who didn't understand, they were just the only one who had the balls to ask about it.

The hierarchy or 'pecking-order' in Thai schools seems to be purposefully designed to “choke the life” out of any new teacher who has initiative or wants to use innovative teaching techniques. Imagine if a Thai teacher "thought-outside-the-box", encouraged students to ASK questions, encouraged interaction in class and at least began to teach students to use rudimentary critical thinking skills. Ask the 'old guard' which really control the education field this question and they'd say classes would become total chaos! It's exactly that mind-set that has held back generation after generation of Thai students except the uber-rich.

Thankfully in a more 'connected' world, Thailand will either hafta step up or shut up in the not so near future. I have met many Thai students who are starting to question the status quo, insofar as the quality of their education. It will be a long, slow, painful process to revamp something as deeply entrenched as the education sector, but it can happen.

I totally agree; any Thai who even becomes semi-proficient in engrish is snapped up by the private sector either here or abroad. Face it, who would want to be employed in the over-controlled, stifling, mind-numbing education sector? I think they'd rather work for a ‘real’ company where initiative and creative skills are looked at as a benefit instead of as a detriment.

Sometimes I tell my Thai friends in jest; the reason Thais don't “think outside the box” is because no one ever told them there even was a “box” to begin with.

WOW! !!

In following the events which lead up to his incarceration and in reading the articles on this thread; I had abso-tively, posi-lutely NO IDEA that extremely poor judgment (insofar as purposely wandering into Cambodia), and/or border-line stupidity (as in having a BAD history with HunSen and still doing it) fell under the category of "congenital diseases"!!

I also didn't know that medications were currently available to remedy these particular maladies!

Truly; Amazing Thailand, huh?

"Delight"; Actually the pic looks like the standard “teach-Thai-2-foreigners” format I’ve seen in almost every learn Thai book I’ve ever looked at. It’s always beneficial when the book you’re learning from lists new vocabulary BEFORE you get into the sentence constructs.

Still it looks about right; Thai with karaoke engrish to help you with the pronunciation. This is usually followed by explanations of the “why” about Thai in regards to verbs or word compounds (words which when coupled together don’t necessarily mean the sum of the individual meanings), although in the case of writing paper it’s pretty close.

While the O/P mentioned the speed of the spoken Thai in lessons, the example used by “Delight” didn’t appear to be speaking fast by any wild stretch of the imagination.

I wish the Thais here spoke in as metered a tempo and enunciated their words even half as clear . I’d be in tall cotton!

I always used to review a lesson first and look for new vocab, figure out how to say them and THEN listen to the sound files.

I would imagine the people most in the know about the Tourist Visa situation in neighboring S/E Asian countries are probably the ‘visa run’ businesses.

They are the above board businesses which specialize in lugging foreigners to various countries and securing Tourist Visas. They are NOT agents, they are legitimate businesses!

Here’s the top 3 in Bangkok in random order;

Quick Thai Visa Run - Philip

Thai Visa Service - Claudio

Jack Total Golf

Give ‘em a call and ask. I’m sure you’ll find one of them who can help you with your particular situation. ..

BTW: I am NOT affiliated with ANY of the above companies and provide it for informative purposes only!

I believe you are confusing the process a foreigner goes thru to get Permanent Residency in Thailand with the requirement of Hull to ask for a 'residency permit' to secure a Non-O visa. They are totally different animals, TOTALLY!

The terminology Hull is using on its website is what's leading to this confusion. They are using the term "residency permit".

Normally to get a "proof of residency" document in Thailand, you go to either your embassy or Thai Immigrations. Although last time I was at Changwattana they wouldn't issues a proof of residency document to an acquaintance because he didn't do 90 day reporting, he had a visa where he border ran every 90 days. He had to go to his embassy for it.

There is another thread running where I made this post about an email I just sent to the Thai Consulate in Hull;

Post with the email to Hull

It would appear from reading your post that you have a multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa (the one where you run-4-the-border every 90 days). That kind doesn't qualify to begin the process of P/R in Thailand. There is a pinned topic about it at the top of the forum if you're interested.

FWIW: As soon as Hull replies to my email, I'll post it in the other thread in its entirety. ..

Not to dampen the rampant speculation on this almost interesting thread, BUT. .. ...

Has anyone currently in the UK bothered to call the Thai Consulate in Hull and ask them directly?

OR

Conversely, has anyone bothered to send an email to Hull asking what criteria are now needed to secure a multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-O or Type-B visa? Sometimes the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

FWIW: More out of curiosity than need, I penned errr typed off this email to Hull;

Hi,

I am a UK national and received a multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa from Hull about 15 months ago for the purpose of visiting friends. I see on your website this is no longer a viable reason to get this type of visa.

I do not qualify for another visa type, not married to a Thai national, not of sufficient age to retire, etc. I currently live here in Thailand, rent an apartment, bank here, etc.

I see you require a 'residency permit' for a Non-O. Can I use the letter of residency I get from the UK embassy here in Bangkok, or one I can get from Thai Immigrations as sufficient proof of residency? There is no such thing as a "residency permit" in Thailand, but there are "proof of residency" documents issued.

Also what requirements are needed to get a multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-B visa? Can Hull issue a Type-B visa if I write a letter saying I am requesting this visa to look into business opportunities in Thailand?

Please advise me on the best course of action. I will be returning to the UK later next month and would like to secure another yearly visa.

Thank you in advance for your reply and for any advice on my situation.

Tod Daniels

I'll post what ever answer I get from them. It should be more than a few days. They're pretty speedy at getting back, at least when I've sent emails to them in the past.

NOTE 2 THE O/P: Sheesh, you must be desperate to stay here if you’d so casually contemplate marriage to a Thai national as the means to that end!!

Personally, I’d go the ED visa route. However, BEFORE you pay a single satang’s worth of your money, I’d talk to currently enrolled students, sit a free class, look at the material, etc. Granted the Ministry of Education only requires you attend class 4 hours a week (so it’s no great time investment) but if the method or materials suck, it can make for a very LONG 4 hours.

Good Luck.

BTW: I know full well there is a "residency permit" issued to "Permanent Residents" however people holding P/R status don't need visas from Hull to facilitate their stay here, and I doubt Hull even knows that.

In all the many, many times I've shepherded acquaintances thru Thai Immigrations, I've only came across this ONCE! The reason I even remember it was that I had to do it TWICE for the wife in the span of 2 months!

The guy was 52, met ALL the retirement requirements, and his wife was 46. We got his first yearly extension of stay without a hitch. However getting his wife first converted to a non-o visa, and then a yearly extension of stay based on being the spouse of a person on an extension of stay based on retirement was a little more of a sticky wicket .

Now this was several years ago, (so TIFWIW or as anecdotal evidence) BUT the officer we dealt with at Suan Plu Immigrations didn't seem to really know IF the spouse had to be over 50 or not. After a few phone calls, (a couple private powwows with the other officers) and some tense waiting, it was all sorted. In the end as long as they're legally married, and can provide the support documentation, the wife is given a yearly extension of stay based on her husbands extension dates. Its advantageous to do them at the same time so the person getting piggy-backed (carried) gets the full year too.

If they go this route, have them BOTH at least buy a single re-entry permit while they're there! (These people were too frazzled and didn't wanna wait in another queue).

If the hubby flies out without one his extension of stay is void AND so is his wife's as its tied to his!. Now if the wife flies out without one, just her extension is void.

I said I remembered this because the wife had to go to the US for an emergency (sans re-entry permit) and LOST her extension of stay. She came back in on a 30 day visa exempt and I had to go back out and do it all over again with her documentation AND her husband (who hasta be there with his passport, etc). Convert to a Non-O (2000baht), apply for the extension of stay (1900), BUY a single re-entry permit (1000baht) <- time saved if sheda done that the first time, A LOT !!

Honestly, it's been so long ago that I can't even remember what the extension stamp said. but I doubt it'd say "retirement" seeing as the person was TOO young to actually retire here. It might have said 'spouse' or something to that effect, but really I don't know.

I don't believe there'd be a problem getting a W/P with the correct paperwork from the company, but a call to the Ministry of Labor might sort it out. I don't know if this number still works but the Ministry of Labor's hotline for Work Permit info was; 1506

You might try Thai Immigrations at their hotline number; 1111. I've found the people who man the hot lines are pretty darned good at getting info for you (once you do the song and dance to actually get an english speaking Thai on the line ). I've had them even go so far as taking my number AND actually calling me back when I've asked them a particularly tricky question.

Good Luck. .. (Sorry it was a long post. ..)

While this is not exactly 'something on-topic' I thought it might 'fit' here as you mentioned you want to learn to improve your Thai.

I routinely buy the Thai language versions of Maxim and FHM magazines to practice my Thai reading skills.

I know that sounds like I'd say in the US, "I ONLY buy Penthouse for the articles.." lol, but really I do read Maxim and FHM here to practice my Thai reading comprehension.

I especially like the "Jokes of the Month", as some are quite good, and some are just recycled jokes written in Thai. For the most part the interviews with the cover gurls are mindless garbage , but some of the reader submissions aren’t all that bad .

This one I typed out as an example; (NO guarantees about the typing being correct, but it should be close ).

Now the first time I read it I understood it straight away, so it can’t be written in all that difficult of Thai.

Lemme know what you think. Is it written at a basic level, intermediate, or what?

Here's the Joke;

สามีภรรยาคู่หนึ่ง ตกลงกันไว้ว่า หากต้องการมีอะไรกุ๊กกิ๊กกัน ให้ส่งรหัสว่า “พิมพ์ดีด”

วันหนึ่งหลังรับประทานอาหารเย็น สามีก็เกิดความต้องการ จึงให้ลูกไปบอกแม่ที่กำลังล้างจานว่า

“ให้รีบล้างจานเร็วหน่อย พ่อจะให้ช่วยพิมพ์ดีด”

แม่กำลังเหนื่อยกับการล้างจานยังไม่เสร็จ จึงให้ลูกไปบอกพ่อว่า

“เครื่องพิมพ์ดีดเสีย ซ่อมยังไม่เสร็จ”

จนแม่ล้างจานเสร็จแล้ว หายเหนื่อยแล้ว ก็เกิดสงสารพ่อขึ้นมา จึงให้ลูกไปบอกพ่อว่า

“ซ่อมเครื่องพิมพ์ดีดเสร็จแล้ว ให้พ่อเตรียมงานไว้ เดี๋ยวจะไปช่วยพิมพ์ให้”

พ่อกลับตอบมาว่า

“บอกแม่ด้วยนะลูก ไม่ทันแล้วล่ะ พ่อเขียนด้วยมือเสร็จแล้ว”

Note to Modz and the O/P; if you’d rather not have this in the post, or if it is too “racy” please feel free to delete it. ..

I just didn’t want to start a thread called; "Thai Language Jokes", although maybe it's not a bad idea, there's tons of them on the internet, lol..

The information in the above post seems to be the lynchpin in regards to people just wanting to volunteer their time to help out at Thai schools. The schools are unwilling to put forth the effort to get you the required paperwork, due to unfamiliarity in the process but most likely due to just plain laziness.

It's also true MANY MANY schools all over this country employ and pay foreign teachers without providing them the documentation to hold work permits. If/when push comes to shove it's the foreign employee who're raked over the coals, rarely if ever the school. ..

It's sad really. There're a LOT of qualified people who would gladly volunteer a few hours a week of their time to help out Thai students. They can't because they're in the catch 22 of working without a work permit.

Good luck, let us know what the school says when you ask them for the documentation to apply for a work permit. I'll bet dollars to donuts they'll say, "We're not gonna pay you, so you don't need one!" That is totally erroneous info; volunteers DO require a work permit to do volunteer "work" <-note the last word there is work, hence the need for a work permit.

As a totally OFF TOPIC aside; given the overly broad interpretation of what constitutes ‘work’ in Thailand, what types of work are prohibited trades and foreigners can't work in them, as well as NOT being in possession of a work permit; I’m sometimes reticent to even use the “bum-squirter” in my house after using the toilet.

USA isn't on the list either, I remember when USA had a lower literacy rate than Philippines and Philippines doesn't even make the top 44!

Uhh, news flash!! The O/P's post is NOT about literacy, but about proficiency in engrish. Must be your second language huh? Keep up with those ESL classes they'll pay off .. Just joking. :jap: .. ..

Actually in outright literacy in their native language Thailand is pretty close to the top 'o the heap, far ahead of the US or UK. Although I'm more than a little suspect of any figures or stats which come from the government.

I do find it strange that the Phillipines doesn't make the top 44 in engrish proficiency as they're far more adept at speaking engrish than I've seen err heard around these parts. Then again, maybe they were exempt and considered a native engrish speaking country in this instance.

Are you sure 'drunk' isn't an honest to goodness second language . I hear it spoken all the time here by foreigners and Thais alike!

In an effort to bring this errant thread at least somewhat back on topic.

Quite honestly, this should come as a surprise to almost no one who even peruses the T/V forum sporadically.

Nearly everyone shouldve thought something like this would be in the wind given how hard the Thai Consulate in Lao was being hit for visas, especially since they reduced the 30 day visa exempt land crossings to 15 days AND given their 'soft touch' or liberal interpretation of the rules. It certainly didn't help having Tourist Visas being free as all it did was over work the staff. Reports I've had from people who were there recently said the place was a mad house in the mornings!

Weve been seeing gradual 'tightening up' of the interpretation of the visa rules by almost EVERY Thai consulate/embassy in the world. One only needs to look at the US and even Hull (which was a known soft touch for a long time) to see the writing is possibly on the wall about the way things might end up with tourist visa and other types of visas as well.

Still, two T/V's from Lao (with extensions) gives you nearly 6 months in-country, another couple from a different neighboring countrys Thai consulate (with extensions) gives you 6 more months. That's a year, anyway you slice it. A year is a year.

I can already envision the number of people lining up to enroll in a private language school for an ED visa!

This new news certainly doesn't bode all that well for the 'perpetual tourist' category of foreigners. Personally I didnt (and still dont) have much of a problem with foreigners living here yet playing the tourist visa game .

The rules regarding these visas were written so ambiguously and so broadly interpreted by the consulates that its only natural foreigners would use it to their advantage. I know if I was in their situation I would do it too.

Good luck all, hope it works out one way or another.

I just called two very well known and totally above board Visa Run Services;

Claudio at Thai Visa Service

Thai Visa Service

AND

Philip at Quick Thai Visa Run

Quick Thai Visa Run

They both said FREE T/Vs are finished!! Its back to 1000baht per single entry.

Now not being particularly curious I didnt ask about how many back to backs a tourist can get or how many entries they could get at a time.

However in an effort to be a kinder-gentler tod-daniels; you might notice I did provide the web links to them, so "enquiring minds" can find out for themselves, should they feel so inclined.

BTW: BOTH of those companies have packages where you can go to either Lao or Cambodia depending on your needs and how many tourist visas you have from a particular location.

FWIW: I didnt waste the time calling Jacks Golf, but heres their link too;

Jack's Golf Visa Run

Good Luck

As an aside; I am NOT affiliated with ANY of the companies I provided info for. .

I will agree with the post about self-study. It certainly takes far more discipline than just showing up at a school a coupla times a week or meeting a private Thai tutor.

However, as the O/Ps post clearly says he wants to get a handle on learning Thai BEFORE arriving here; perhaps (even mine and everyone elses) advice about schools, private teachers, where to buy learning Thai resources in Bangkok, etc may be slightly premature at this juncture!

If I can teach myself to read, touch type, and speak something resembling Thai; I know anyone can do it. It takes TIME and a LOT OF IT. Study, review, more study, go back and re-review what you learned earlier so you dont forget it.

Still Benjawans books while perhaps not the best methodology, are at least presented in a consistent manner. Her phonetics, while different, are still used in all but the last Advanced Learn Thai book, and in ALL of her c/d booklet stuff shes got out.

FWIW: I used this site to help myself learn how to read Thai.

Thai Language E-Learning Site

Its geared towards teaching children of Thai nationals who're stationed abroad (and who speak engrish) the Thai Language. It was developed by the Department of Non-Formal Education with the Ministry of Education Thailand.

You hafta make a user name and password but after that its totally free. Ive spent more 100 hours on that site working thru the various tests, chapters, etc.

Now granted its written for children, so the cartoon characters which explain the Thai language are a Thai gurl, a Paint Brush, and a Book. STILL, it does explain the inz and outz of learning to read Thai pretty well. Its also FREE and presented slow enough so you can take notes!

Good luck!

Again, SORRY for the long post!

Other posters have advised you on the most correct course of action.

About the best you can do is to "trek" (as in; sneak like you did already ); first OUT of Cambodia and back INTO Thailand.

Exit Thailand at a "real" border crossing, (you know like most people do when traveling between countries ). This will "officially" stamp you out, so should you ever return to the glorious "Land 'O Thais" you won't be flagged as "never having left".

Next; re-enter Cambodia (at the border crossing). Now, as you have an "E-Visa" for Cambodia you're gonna hafta use one of the borders which actually lets you in on an "E-Visa" as all border crossings DON'T accept them.

Here's the link to the Cambodia E-Visa site with the list of approved border crossings which let you ENTER Cambodia with an E-visa;

Cambodia E-Visa Link

Sheesh. .. Even though it says he posted yesterday; I really hope this is an April Fools joke! If the O/P really did this, it certainly WON'T be a joke for him at the airport in Phnom Penh.

Still, good luck, let us know how it all works out for you..

I would hafta weigh in on the side that there is NO negativity meant or implied by a recently met thai calling you over by using the engrish word; You. ..

Totally tongue-in-cheek to people who even remotely think its rude, I'd suggest; dialing back your sensitivity-meter a little , wearing a much smaller chip on your shoulder , or possibly doublin' up on your meds ) lol.

Honestly, all seriousness, err , I mean all joking aside, I wouldn't give it a second thought, as it's no worse than strange Thais hawking stuff calling out to you, "Hey meeter" (hey mister), or "Hey Bod" (hey boss).

On the whole, I've found Thais incredible at facial recognition, often remembering me months after we met, solely by sight! However, I've found them to be at the other end of the proverbial scale when it comes to actually remembering foreigners' names.

It took me nearly 3 months of drinking with the same group of Thai guys outside my apartment gate a couple times a week before they could all remember my name. And FWIW; it's just a single syllable name Tod (ท้อด).

I'd just deal with it. ..

You guys (and gurls) might find this story of interest too.

Sadly these are far from isolated incidents!! I’m sure they happen more amongst thai/thai goings-on than foreigners living here realize.

I watched a fairly successful ‘small scale’, fish, pig and rice farm be totally destroyed by in-fighting amongst the siblings. Even though NOT one of them did a lick of work or contributed a single satang to it save the youngest son.

The youngest son, who never left home, looked after the house, his ailing parents, and did all the development of the land, front loaded all the cost, worked it all himself, etc. When the father was about to die the rest of the siblings descended on the place and literally tore it apart in the endeavor to get 'their fair share' of the land.

About the only good that came out of it was the guy who'd done all that work, after enduring two weeks of in-fighting about the land; waited until his brothers and sisters had went back to their 'real' jobs. Then he harvested the rice, knocked down the berm around the paddy, caught/sold the fish, drained the pond, partially filled it in, and sold off all the pigs. He even went so far as to knock down the small concrete block pig-house. I wish I coulda seen the look on their faces when they went back up to 'claim' their rightful piece of the proverbial pie!!

It was sad for me to see that happen, because you'd never meet a harder working, easier going thai guy than he is. He was up at dawn, working on this that and the other thing all day, fixing motocy’s, iron-buffalos, sleeping in the hut by the rice field or by the fish pond some nites. He was really one of the hardest working thais I've ever met in almost 6 years here.

Now, almost 3 years after the father died, I had a chance to pass the land the other day when I was going up country. It's STILL FALLOW! All overgrown with weeds and not a thing has been done to it! I'm sure once the siblings realized they might actually hafta do something which resembled work instead of claiming their share of an already successful thing, they lost ALL interest.

The only good outcome was the youngest guy was able to take what ever he made from his 'close-out' sale and buy his OWN small piece of land, to restart. I spoke to him; he's doing well and thinking of buying another piece of land.

I say GOOD ON HIM !!

So, it's just not foreigners who're involved with Thais that this happens to. Although with a “foreign money-tree” in the mix the financial things can get skewed a little (or a LOT)!

It would appear, laziness, short-sightedness and all out greed knows NO boundaries; no matter the color of your skin.