Tod Daniels

แต่อย่างใด means anyhow or anyway. I just learned this

one the other day from a newscast. <SNIP>

Wow, I never ever heard that phrase spoken before either .

I even found it on thai-language dot com;

http://www.thai-language.com/id/219234

แต่อย่างใด (dtaae^L yaang^L dai^M); at all, anyway, anyhow. The examples used show its usage at the end of a sentence carrying the meaning outlined in the previous post by "klons".

I'll hafta try it out when I'm sitting outside this week with my thai friends, and see how it plays in ภาษาพูด.

Some of the phrases I learn on this forum and think will work, I've found in real life, just don't give the 'bang-4-the-baht' I'd expect . Still quite a useful phrase, thanx for askin' about it

คู่มือ (khuu-meu) means "handbook", "instruction book", or "manual"--so, "Exam Preparation Manual-Principles and Usage of the Thai Language".

While you're far from the first person who pointed out that error in my word by word translation instead of recognizing them as I should have as a compound word, still I feel thanx are in order.

I routinely miss compound words in thai when reading; especially as the meaning of the stand alone words don't necessarily have anything to do with the new meaning once words are combined or compounded. As in this instance, where the two stand alones mean 'pair or couple' and 'hand' but combined mean a 'manual, guidebook' or a new on to me 'handy'

It's a learning curve of which I am evidently still quite close to the bottom.

Again, thanx to all though; now I know the word for 'manual' คู่มือ(khuu^F meuu^M)

I've found when using ANY up-escalator in this country, if you let one of your feet hang off the step with the bottom of your foot facing the people behind you, NOT a single thai will crowd you EVER . The same move on a down-escalator is a slightly tougher move, but with practice it can be done.

Given the extreme "sole of the foot" phobia that is so pervasive here you’ll have at least several steps behind you which no one will dare stand on.

I’ve never had a thai make a verbal comment (even amongst their group), never had a thai crowd me, and never got a single look from anyone.

One time a foreigner (dressed in the obligatory knee length camo cargo shorts, the Singha Beer singlet t-shirt, and 30 baht sandals ) who got on behind me had the audacity to mention that my "sole baring" was a huge cultural fox-paw" <sic> faux pas here in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”. I replied, "You're not even frickin' thai, what are you the culture police?"

In other news; a few days ago down at Siam, where the escalators going up to the BTS have those warning signs to "Mind your head", lest you lean outside the escalator to gawk and get clobbered by the support girders passing by; a foreigner ahead of me was nearly knocked unconscious as he found out the reason they have those signs posted.

I mean the sound of his head hitting that girder sounded almost like someone hit a gong! It even made me "pucker back" as he hit it so hard. In his defense he did have the presence of mind to clutch the railing, however were it not for the thais behind him who propped him up, he’d a been knocked down the entire escalator.

When he got to the top it was quite apparent he'd rattled more than a “few screws loose” with the encounter and had a HUGE goose egg too.

NEVER lean outside the escalators in outdoor situations.

Seeing as their posted hours on all the signage and their flyers say they're open until 5AM; it would appear they are indeed going for that 'mid-price after hours' niche market which appears to be poorly exploited as far as foreigners (read as; tourists, or sex-pats) in thailand are concerned.

Of course, it goes without saying that the 'real' entrance is the back of the building and not on the front of the nearly totally blacked out building facing Sukhumvit, (although that 24 hour diner does have an entrance into the club and provides a good "cover story"; and the club also has a nearly unmarked entrance out front too )..

When I walked past on the way home Sunday nite about 12:30AM there were easily a hundred people out back queued (or what passes for queuing here ) waiting to get in as people came out. Then again, as you said and as I will paraphrase; 'a bang up grand opening doesn't necessarily make for a viable long term business plan here' .

It would appear from the "word on the street" that they had many less customers on Monday, and from what I saw, even fewer today. Although I gave up tryin' to count them about 30 minutes ago . So in reality, I have no idea of their 'real' customer count...

I was actually thinking of taking my 'clicker' out tonite and count them off. But, if the truth were to be told, I can't be bothered to sit outside the gate of my apartment for hours one end and count the people as they go in.

Maybe later they're busier, I dunno, and like they say here, I dun care too!.

As I have no financial involvement/interest with them; its just NOT my business; other than being the nosy foreigner on my Soi that I am

Totally unofficial review of "Club Insomnia Soi 12 Bangkok"

(Sorry the post is long; I hope you’ll stick with it. )

Living as I have, for 5+ years now about 50 meters directly behind the building housing the new club, and in watching the construction from day one; I can say they dumped MILLIONS of baht into the construction of that place. It was literally mind wobbling to see the trucks every day bringing in the construction materials, etc. I mean TONZ of money went into that facility and from the inside it certainly shows.

Even though the 'real' entry to the club is on the back of the building (opposite the Sukhumvit side and, unfortunately for me, even closer to my apartment ) they did put up double entry doors and insulate the walls pretty darned well. Other then when they tested the sound system before they opened and had all the doors wide open, now I can't even hear the music in my apartment, or out on my soi where I sit.

Three guys who I met early on, chatted with briefly and who I imagine are the foreign contingent of the owners, certainly seem to be nice enough. Although it appears as of now there are a high degree of 'cling-onz' (foreigners who apparently do abso-tively posi-lutely nothing) except hang around in Insomnia t-shirts, trying to look important, .

The weekend of the grand opening I saw what could only be termed as “the obligatory thai silent partners” out in full force. They were older thai guys milling around in suits with their security around them. There was also a fairly large contingent of the Lumpini Police too.

Sadly, I couldn't even be bothered to go have a look for myself, as that kinda place is just not my 'cup 'o tea'.

However several contacts I spoke with who did go scope it out said it was much the same as the old Ministry of Sound (Soi 12 more than a few years ago), and to a lesser extent the Climax Club under the Ambassador or the old Nana Disco back in its heyday. They reported it was filled with middle aged tourists (punters), higher end gurls than you'd see on the streets and to a lesser extent some of the younger wanna-b-hi-so thais you'd be more apt to see out at the predominantly thai hang out spot; RCA. Then again their cover charge along with their choice of music doesn't particularly lend itself to being a 'customer friendly' club for your average "run-'o-the-mill-thai".

It was related to me that ANY conversation inside the club must be done with your mouth firmly pressed into the ear of whoever you're speaking to and carried out at a shout. However this is the norm rather than the exception to clubs of this genre.

I did send a couple of my thai friends in to scope it out. They both are A/V Sound System guys and work for a major international hotel chain (and who collectively have probably installed sound and a/v equipment in more clubs, hotels, bars, etc in Bangkok than you could shake a stick at). They reported back that Insomnia has a great visual set up, with incredible lighting, projection televisions, etc, as well as a very high end (especially for a club in thailand) sound system to boot. So if that sort of stuff floats your boat, it's well worth checking the club out.

Thankfully, at least to the hundreds of foreigners who live on as well as the hundreds of thais who work on my Soi, they're not choking us out by parking cars on the street like the Ministry of Sound did before. Evidently, Club Insomnia has cut deals with both Sukhumvit Plaza aka 'Korea Town" and Times Square for parking . For us, this is really good, especially seeing as their 'main' parking lot in front of the club has just 22 spaces. Sadly they did run a lot of the long time street sellers who sold there outta the parking lot and onto the sidewalk, (as well as two great soi dogs who lived in that parking lot for the last 4 years too ).

I spoke with some of the Insomnia thai staff who eat at the food stalls in front of my apartment gate and it would seem they brought up some of the seasoned people from the Pattaya branch to get the opening off the ground, and help train the new staff they hired on for this location.

In talking to the thais who live & work on my soi, (because that's where everyone here gets the 'real dirt' on anyone ); it would seem the 'money behind it' both has at least some connections and fairly deep pockets too. For now the wheels of progress seem 'well greased' and they shouldn't squeak overly loud for a while.

As far as I can tell, other than a few more middle aged punters wandering drunkenly out on the soi around my apartment gate at 3 or 4 AM, I don't see a whole lotta changes in pedestrian traffic from when that building was the Leader Price Grocery Store.

Time will tell if they'll make it, or if it'll be another flash in the pan like Ministry of Sound was. Remember when Ministry of Sound was going great guns, filled to capacity every nite, having international d/j's from hither and yon flying in to play music. Suddenly the foreign owners got on the wrong side of the wrong thai people. After four (count ‘em FOUR!!); 'lock down the building, line up every person inside to piss in a cup' type of drug checks in about a month, that pretty much drove their customer base away and eventually them into the ground as well.

At least for now the 'owners' will do what ever they can to get this club off the ground and have it do well. As I said, they seem nice enough, and I hope they succeed in their endeavor. Their Pattaya branch certainly would appear to still be doing great guns.

As An Aside; That 50's themed restaurant called the V-8 Diner seems equally well built and quite the flashy diner. It being open 24 hours a day may provide a place for people to eat 'american-ish' food after imbibing a little too much. I stopped in and perused the menu. Good varied selection and they're well in line price-wise with the other 'tourist oriented' eating establishments in the Lower Sukhumvit area.

Remember these are MY observations ONLY, and your mileage may indeed vary.

When in doubt, go scope it out yourself, certainly don't rely on my oh-so jaded take on things. ...

Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Several private thai language schools (some who are even forum sponsors ) currently offer an ED visa for studying thai and teach the classes online.

To the best of my knowledge the students have no problem securing either their first single entry non-immigrant type-ed visa at a thai consulate in neighboring countries, nor do they have problems getting additional 90 day extensions of stay based on continuing education. The schools which offer this type of ‘distance learning’ are all accredited with the Ministry of Education and provide you with the documentation you need.

It would appear the classes are taught on Skype, and have several students in various locations that log on and then learn together from the thai teacher based at the school. In fact, I've seen it in use at several private thai language schools here in Bangkok.

I'd drop an email to a couple of the schools which have adverts on this forum and ask.

Are you sure this is the 'official' thai proficiency exam? Like the one several posters (kriwillems, yoot, to name a few, and others) took over the last several years since they switched from the ป.๖ equivalency testing and went for the proficiency one they offer now?

While I’m not discounting your post outright, I am calling it into question.

To me, it just doesn't ring true (even given the oft-times whacky mindset of thai beaurocracy ) that they'd give the test in japanese. What about the HUGE number of Koreans, Chinese, and other asians who routinely sit that test and who might not speak, read or understand japanese? Are they ruled out because it’s now implemented in japanese only?

Even in briefly looking at the website from the link you provided; I can't see where it is the actual 'thai proficiency exam', (especially as I didn't care to plug the pages into a translator to discern what they might say ). This looks more like something cooked up by some company who specifically markets it to the plethora of Japanese nationals here studying thai .

In fact, I thought the real thai proficiency exam was given more towards the end of the year with the results coming out online first, and then you got the paper in the mail at the beginning of the new year.

I could very well be wrong; and if I am, I offer my heartfelt apology.

Still, a person would be hard pressed indeed to find a more whacky way to test thai proficiency on 'foreigners' (which last time I checked meant almost anyone who wasn't thai) than to give it in japanese.

Strange really.

I only hope kris, yoot, or some of the other people who took the test in previous years can weigh in on this thread.

A phrase that's used here where i live is ขี้แตก (kee dtaek).

You know; I ALMOST posted that phrase as well!

I'll even write it in bigger font ขี้แตก and use some engrish pronunciation too;

ขี้ khee^Fแตก dtaaek^L which could only translate as "shit broken", but of course that is word by word and when the thai words are joined together it carries the colloquial meaning of 'having diarrhea'

However, as it's soo something you'd NEVER EVER say to someone you don't know really well, unless you're runnin' for the toilet, I purposely left it out .

Mostly due to "us" foreigners NOT knowing when it's okay to use phrases like that (as in with close friends or family ) and when it's NOT appropriate to say something so coarse or rough in thai .

whenever I have the shits I just say 'mee kee nam'.

Far more interesting than the real phrase.

Dominic.

While for you it might seem "far more interesting than the real phrase"; sadly to a run-of-the-mill thai, aka; the-thai-on-the-street that phrase means nothing, it's just foreign b/s thai-speak . Maybe with hand gestures, and miming out the problem they'd get it, but normally, unmmm, no. This is especially so if you can't pronouce the words ride; ขี่ khee^L and shit; ขี้ khee^F clearly in thai .

The real phrases are;

ท้องเดิน thaawng^H deern^M - stomach walks (everyone will know what you're saying).

ท้องร่วง thaawng^H ruaang^F - stomach falls or drops

BUT the one phrase every thai in the entire country knows 100% is;

ท้องเสีย thaawng^H siia^R - stomach broken

I have also heard to a lesser extent the thai phrase;

ลงท้อง lohng^M thaawng^H - my stomach came down

However I have NEVER EVER heard the phrase มีขี้น้ำ meeM khee^F naam^H or in engrish; "have shit water" spoken here .

Stick with ท้องเสีย thaawng^H siia^R and everyone will both know what you're on about as well as hopefully point you to a bathroom with ample toilet paper!

Again it would seem to be a case of mother language interference, where you use your words to make a thai sentence. While we think that translates straight across the board, in reality it usually is not understood.

My advice is NEVER translate word for word (thai to engrish or engrish to thai)!! Learn the many, MANY thai 'frozen phrases'. Words that together carry a similar meaning in thai as they do in engrish.

Was the post I quoted funny, YES! Was it meaningful for anyone learning thai. .. You figure it out

Guys just mention that I hope you guys talking about how to get a 2 month valid tourist visa not a 15 days "quick visa run", I am correct?

I seem to remember reading on this forum not too long ago that Chinese nationals are issued a tourist visa for Thailand only in China or their country of residence if they live outside China.

<SORRY SNIP>

Yes it is for a valid DOUBLE ENTRY Tourist Visa for thailand. Giving you almost 6 months 'in-country' if you play it right with the run-4-the border and using the 30 day in-country extensions of stay.

And to the MOD known as "Maestro"; While not discounting your information (especially after Googling it and finding the same thing), I couldnt speculate on the interpretation or if it is still current info. There is just TOO much spurious info out there for me to make a good decision.

Perhaps if the O/P would make a quick call to this number 02-713-2498 (office hours) or maybe this one 089-024-5255 (24 hours) it might yield faster more reliable results.

Especially given the guy that owns this company professes to be half Chinese (but then again ALL thais say that, so who knows!!). I do know he has run that company and that visa run service to Lao for at least 2.5 years already, (at least by my calculations).

I dunno the real story, and have abso-tively, posi-lutely NO affiliation with the above mentioned company or their phone numbers.

Except for having used them 3 times in the past myself, and having sent more people than I care to count to them from MANY nationalities for various thai visas. Although in reality, most were either Western foreigners or people from Korea, Japan, Vietnam, or the Philippines.

<SNIP> My Thai GF still laughs about when I wanted to buy some sunglasses (without her) and asked for 'wentha atit' i.e. glasses of the sun, or so I thought. It is correctly said, 'wentha gun dad'.

What ever you do; DON'T, for the love of GOD ask for แว่นตากันแตด (waaen^F dtaa^M gan^M dtaaet^L) ("glasses to protect you from a woman's clitoris") instead of แว่นตากันแดด waaen^F dtaa^M gan^M daaet^L (sun glasses). The first phrase is spoken with the last word as starting with a "DT" mixed together and means what I previously mentioned . The second phrase has a real "D" as the beginning letter in the last word. They are close but NO cigar. ..

However, it can make for a funny situation on the Soi buying sunglasses ...

While this is more than a little OFF-TOPIC: I still feel it is of high value to anyone attempting to speak the thai language with thais.

<SNIP>I wholeheartedly agree about 'breaking the ice' with commom introductions in Thai to let the Thai person know that you are speaking Thai with them.

If there’s anything I’ve learned here that has actual ‘bang-4-the-baht’; it’s when speaking to unfamiliar thais, doing what I mentioned in a previous post; the ‘thai language dance’ can grease the proverbial wheels. It even works when a foreigner is speaking terribly mangled thai. More times than not it can turn out to your advantage, in so far as you’ll get the answer(s) you’re looking for and you might even make a new thai friend too.

Nowadays (in predominantly engrish speaking countries) it seems to be the habit of english speakers to just approach the nearest person and ask whatever you want to ask. To any thai, that type of interaction is blunt to the N-th degree, and even almost bordering on plain rude.

It is my observation; this seems to be partly due to the built-in almost mandatory politeness in the thai language when thais meet unfamiliar people. Speaking very to the point right outta the gate just doesn’t seem to ‘play’ well here. This situation seems to be exacerbated when a foreigner is speaking thai with a thai who doesn’t know them from ‘Adam’. Or maybe I guess a little better analogy here is, if the thai doesn’t know you from ‘Somchai’.

I cerainly agree with sticking to one langauage. So many times I haven't a clue what the Thai person is saying in Thai to me, but when I ask for repeats (usually more than one) there are English words in the sentence, poorly pronounced and in a Thai accent.

I concur with that assessment; the mixing of thai-engrish words when a thai speaks, sometimes makes for a tough ‘row to hoe’. I’ll hafta ask them to repeat it again, and maybe again before I’ll realize there are poorly accented engrish words mixed in and finally get what they’re talkin’ about.

And also what I hate is the show off farangs who have to shout their usually excreable <sic> (EDIT: Maybe you meant 'execrable' as in "extremely bad"? ) Thai to let everybody know how great they are. Unfortunately these farangs are in denial and think they can speak Thai really well (because every Thai person tells them that). Ughhhhh!!

The instance where foreigners feel the need to shout out their piss-poor thai, just plain makes me cringe!! Sometimes to the point I’m actually embarrassed to be seen as another ‘white skinned, long nosed foreigner’ in the same vicinity!

Sadly I must also concur; I wish (with all my heart!!) I had a single baht every time a thai told me, พูดภาษาไทยเก่งมาก, as I’d retire here with more baht than I could ever count.

The overt in-grained politeness I mentioned earlier in the post seems to be greatly exaggerated in the situation where thais will pile on praise to any foreigner who can spit out even 3 semi-understandable words in thai. It can be quite the ‘downer’ to foreigners who actually want to learn to speak something close to 'real' thai, because it gives the speaker a false sense of their ability in speaking the thai language.

In fact, just the other day, I had a thai tell me they knew another foreigner who could speak thai (in their opinion) “very well” and that we should all meet for coffee. When I met him and listened, it was oh-so apparent he spoke ‘frozen phrases’ pretty good. However, once the subject veered even slightly “off script” he was like a fish outta water.

And NO FWIW; I am most definitely NOT a ‘showy foreign thai speaker’ (if anything, I am a VERY reticent thai speaker ) . I only spoke thai a very little bit in that situation, preferring to compel the thais I was sitting with to deal with me speaking just engrish for the most part.

How about you try this?

Google the phrase; "Quick Thai Visa Run" (with the quotes) and see what comes up in like the top 4?

That service offers an "all in" kind of deal; transportation to/from, meals, hotel, Lao visa, thai tourist visa (which is BTW; free), a chaperone who walks you thru the process and they have a fast 'thru-put' for their customers at the border(s). It is everything for one price.

Now, could a person such as yourself do it cheaper? Yeah, maybe by a couple hundred baht, unless you took the cheap-O bus from Mor-Chit or the train from Hua-Lampong to Nong Khai).

IMHO: a person would be hard pressed indeed to find a rougher visa run service than one mentioned by a previous poster. Even doing a quick perusal of Google using that name, it becomes readily apparent that there are way too many negative posts, by way too many people, on way too many forums.

AND

FWIW: using the service I mentioned, most of the passengers aren't 'smelly aliens' (what ever that means. ..) but people from other S/E Asian countries. On the trip(s) I've taken with them, there were only one or two other "smelly aliens" , other than myself, lol. ..

I can assure you, while I am most definitely a foreigner (USA), I am definitely NOT a "smelly alien" . ..

When I see a westerner mispronuncing something and the Thai doesn't understand, the westerner usually repeats it louder and louder.

It's just as well, because Thais understand LOUD mispronounced Thai.

That particular trait of ramping up the volume when a thai doesnt understand a person the first go round seems to predominantly come from westerners. Althugh I hear it more from foreigners speaking engrish to thais than vice versa. It is easily one of the most frustrating things I hear foreigners do here .

I can't count how many times a foreigner will say something in what ever passes for engrish in their native accent, have a thai stare blankly, and then the foreigner will repeat it two or three more times with the volume increasing each time until theyre almost shouting .

On more than one occasion in places I frequently go and where I know the sales staff really well, I've butted in when foreigners do this. Ill usually say, "Hey, how about bringing the volume down a notch or two there bud. They couldn't understand you speaking in a normal volume, they're certainly not gonna understand you when you shout at 'em!!" Sometimes the foreigners I admonish in this way get quite pissy, but for the most part they sullenly dial it back.

I've had the same situation when foreigners 'think' they're speaking thai, only to have a thai give them the 'deer in the headlights' look. Now it is my experience this type of situation usually stems from one of two root causes;

1.) Firstly, the thai being addressed wasn't expecting a foreigner to actually speak something which even resembled thai. They had already seen a foreigner approaching and adjusted their ear reception to the receive engrish side of the dial . Therefore the thai didn't recognize they were hearing thai as they were listening for engrish. .

This situation occurs quite a lot, especially in 'cold' conversations. These are situations where the foreigner will go up to a thai and ask what ever it is theyre wanting to ask. Seeing as the foreigner didn't do what I call the 'thai-language-dance' FIRST, the thai doesnt always understand what was said.

What is exactly the thai-language-dance? That's where you go up to an unfamiliar thai youre going to engage in conversation; say hello, ask the mundane pleasantry question(s), possibly ask if they can speak engrish, and then finally get around to asking in thai if they can help you.

This doesn't take a lotta time, in fact most of it is just 'frozen phrases (things every thai says/hears countless times a day) . This serves as an 'ice breaker' letting the thai youre speaking to know several things;

A.) you can speak something which is at least close to thai.

B.) letting the thai hear your accent, (because yes, as a foreigner speaking thai here, believe me when I say, you most definitely DO speak thai with a foreign accent!)

Now once a thai has his head wrapped around your accented thai, you can move on to actually asking them what you needed to know in the first place.

2.) The second BIG problem occurs when foreigners intermix thai and english words in a sentence. This arises from a variety of reasons, two of which are;

A.) Foreigners lacking sufficient vocabulary or concepts of sentence structure in thai to actually speak with anything resembling clarity or cohesiveness.

B.) From a foreigner living with a thai significant other where that type of intermixed language (engrish-thai thai-engrish) is spoken as the norm in the household often leading the foreigner into mistakenly believing theyre speaking something any thai would understand.

I was reading a thai book by Andrew Biggs which goes over methods for thais to speak english like foreigners. He has an entire chapter written warning his readers NOT to mix the two languages together. His great examples are of some interviews on thai t/v with the thai superstars or 'dara where they throw in a word or two in english whilst speaking thai to the interviewer just to show off that they are 'inter' (or can speak engrish)...

The above things mentioned can and do lower how a normal run-'o-the-mill thai you're likely to encounter here and engage in conversation understands you.

Whenever Im in doubt (which I seem to be frequently);

I stick to either all engrish or all thai.

I do the 'thai-language-dance' with them first to break the ice with unfamiliar thais.

And by all means I follow the acronym; K-I-S-S (Keep It Simple, Stupid!).

Believe me I make no assertions that Im a frickin thai language pundit here . I offer out my observations after WAY too many hours spent listening to thai foreign interactions.

You mileage can and will vary, deal with it.

In the 'fox-paws' <sic> faux pas foreigners have related on this thread so far, it is apparent that at least most of us suffer a LOT from mother language interference in regards as how something is actually pronounced in thai, and what we as foreigners 'hear' when a thai says a word .

In reading the some of the most recent entries about the confusion between the word banana - กล้วย - gluay^F, and (what I believe the O/P was referring to), the vulgar word for penis ควย - khuay^M, it is clear those two words have, in actuality, very little in common. They neither share the same initial consonants, (in fact banana is made up of the compound consonant กล; pronounced like a 'gl' in engrish) while the second ค is most definitely a 'k' sound, nor do they share the same tone, (one being a falling tone and the other a mid tone).

I still find the thread amusing, especially given the HUGE number of 'fox-pawz' I routinely make (or appear to make) when sitting outside my apartment gate on the side of the soi with my thai friends.

I'll say something in thai, they'll look at me like I'm crazy. I'll say the phrase again, then once again, and finally someone will shout out, what to me, sounds EXACTLY like I think I had been saying; then everyone will understand, laugh and joke about it .

Unfortunately (mostly for the thais you speak to early on ) the only way to increase the understandability of your spoken thai is to actually speak thai to thais.

I for one am thankful I have such great thai friends . They are fairly close to my age (+/- 6 years or so), we share similar interests; current events in thailand, sports, politics, pretty women, and we have similar educations). They are both patient as well as pretty darned good drinkers too !

It seems to help us both get thru the language barrier(s) in regards to them speaking english and me speaking thai. Although we inevitably reach a point of diminishing returns after imbibing a few too many bottles of Blend 285, SangSom, or on occasion even that vicious red colored YaaDong.

Easily the two most mangled and mispronounced thai words by foreigners here hafta be;

เกาะ - Island - gaw^L (often sa-pelled in engrish as Koh)

สิงห์ - The beer sa-pelled in engrish as Singha - sing^R (even though the ‘ha’ is silent).

In other news I sat a low intermediate thai language class a couple months ago where the teacher was going around the room asking students what they'd done here that they had never done before. One foreign gentleman said in thai; "Yesterday was the first time I ever ‘shat’ a moto-cy." Obviously mispronouncing the word ขี่ - to ride upon - khee^L with the word ขี้ - feces, waste - khee^F. To the teachers credit she asked in a totally deadpan voice, "Did it hurt?" When the gentleman gave a puzzled look, the teacher went into the toning error of the word.

This then rapidly evolved into a lively discussion of similarly sounding but dissimilarly toned thai words like; ชี้ - point with your finger - chee^H, ฉี่ informal for urinate - chee^L, then the three 'suea' words mat - เสื่อ, shirt - เสื้อ and tiger - เสือ. Which I learned to remember early on as; mats lay on the floor ( seuua^L) Low tone; shirts are pulled down over your head (seuua^F) Falling tone; and tigers jump up at you when they attack (seuua^R) Rising tone.

The we went thru the 'khao' words (which I won't bother spelling in thai ) like; enter, news, rice, white, foul odor, he-she-they, knee, animal horn, and then finally the 'mai' words like; new, wood, not, widow, burn, silk/question word, warrant/notice. It was a very enjoyable hour in my opinion.

One thing I will note. It is my experience that vowel length in a spoken thai word is just as important as the correct tone, maybe even more so, (as thais for the most part are pretty tone tolerant). The habit of native english speakers to draw out the pronunciation of a word like we do in english to enhance understanding will put someone further off the mark by changing the vowel length than saying the word with the correct vowel length and the wrong tone. There’s just no way you can change the duration of a thai vowel without going way off script.

Still, I’m sure the stories are endless about the way foreigners have mangled and mispronounced this IMHO pretty darned difficult language.

6 posts and you're coming out with this?

I was going to say that too , but thankfully you beat me to it . ..

Actually in reading the entire thread title (especially the sub-title) I think the O/P asked and answered his own question. .. And FWIW: I don't have any where near the post count you do 'tropo' .

Not to be overly contrary but if you've ever seen "Gone with the Wind" you would know that the character of Rhett Butler was very much in the "immediate circle of friends" of Scarlet O'Hara. <SNIP>

You are totally correct; in that context he is speaking to someone in his “inner circle”. I stand humbly erected errr, I mean corrected . ..

However, it is my experience after listening to all too many foreigners who profess to ‘speak thai like a thai’ that few can delineate the oh-so many layers in the thai hierarchal society .

That is why I thought it was just better to offer out the warning I gave .

“No harm, no foul”, and no disrespect meant or intended to ANY posers <sic> errr, I meant posters on Thai Visa . .. .

Sorry to all for my sa-pelling errors. …

Try this company;

www.thaivisarun.com

They will lug u 2 Lao, get the visa(s) (Lao visa and the tourist visa you want for thailand too! Which is BTW; free now!!), hotel, food, travel, everything is included 4 just 1 price.

The guy who owns the company has had his business run this trip so many time’s it is not even funny. Easily hundred’s of times..

And NO I am NOT affiliated with that company, I've just sent all too many people to him in the past. ..

I know “Jack’s Golf” does some squirelly thing where you stay at the casino on the Aranyaphratet/Poipet border in Cambodia and they ‘run’ your passport to Phnom Penh, but I’d rather keep my passport with me, where ever I am. ..

Just as an aside: WHY did the poser <sic> errr poster known as “RudieTheFoodie” submit his post THREE frickin’ times? Never refreshed his screen, or wanted to get his message across? ???

And YES other posters are saying go to Vientiane Lao PDR, believe me it’s FAR easier than Cambodia . ..

And FWIW: the Lao people are pretty darned friendly too!

Not to disount the book (by any wild stretch of the imagination) but the first word in the example you site is ONLY something you'd ever speak to someone in your immediate circle of friends, i.e. (very) close acquaintances or a significant other.

If you addressed your 'run-of-the-mill' thai person like that you'd be out in 'left field', be in for an swift kick with their foot or at least the person would say; กวนตีน in reply!!

The personal pronouns มึง (for someone else) and กู (for yourself) as well as มัน (they, he, she) are NOT under any circumstances to be used lightly here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", especially with people you don't know VERY well!

Even I, (who I'd like to think has pretty thick-skin) would take offense to someone who I didn't know referring to me EVER in that way (and I am a foreigner!!)

I am not discounting this book or the phrases in the book, (and I did actually save the ISBN number to buy it). I am only pointing out how much the thai language differs from english in its MANY levels of politeness.

Use the previously mentioned words at your own peril (and then get back to me about how it worked out for you), that is if you can speak with your jaw wired shut ..

FWIW: I know of 3 ‘acquaintances’ who applied for the seemingly 'elusive' year-long multi-entry non-immigrant type-o visa for the reason of 'visiting friends' in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", at the consulate in Hull.

Two of them used foreigners who live here full time as their contact info; in name and address, and BOTH of them got a visa without a problem. The other one had a thai wife (so that reason is of marginal value to this thread).

It would seem it doesn't even hafta be a thai national that you're 'visiting', only someone who has an actual 'hard address' in this country.

One of the ‘acquaintances’ even got the visa saying he was going to visit a friend whose address is the frickin' Nana Hotel on Sukhumvit Soi 4 (go figure!). ..

Evidently 'friends' are friends whether they are foreigners or thai nationals.

At least for now it would seem the bar is set quite low as far as who you are going to visit here. The only prerequisite appears to be that whoever you're visiting actually lives in thailand and has an address here as well (as in, that person can supply documentation to back up the claim that they live here).

Then again, these are ONLY my experiences, and your mileage may indeed vary . ..

Actually, it is my experience, that the most often spoken colloquial phrase meaning the opposite of โชคดี; cho:hk^F dee^M (good luck) is; โชคไม่ดี; cho:hk^F mai^F dee^M (bad luck), and then after that I'd use the example "sarahsbloke" mentions; โชคร้าย; cho:hk^F raai^H (which at least to me means; frickin' really bad luck) .

With more than a few thai words it would appear that the direct opposite word in thai is not used, and to denote the opposite meaning you couple the word ไม่ mai^F (not) with the postitive meaning to get a negative. Example(s); ดี; dee^M (good), ไม่ดี; mai^F dee^M (bad, not good), สบาย; sa^L baai^M (well, happy, good, fine, ok, etc), ไม่สบาย; mai^F sa^L baai^M (usually; sick or unwell, but also can be unhappy).

(Phonetic pronunciation ripped shamelessly from Glenn Slayden's thai-language dot com website )

Okay, I finally made it out to Thai Language Achievement School at the Phaya Thai Plaza building today to scope out that school .

Here's what I got from it.

Their material consists of 6 modules but really 7 text books as module 2 is two books.

The first one karaoke (phonetics only), but they said they could provide it in thai if you could read already. After that book the rest start exposing you to thai script but the next two still have phonetics, and in Level 2 section 2 you start to write thai script some. They seen to follow close to the Union method, although there has obviously been some serious re-writes to the text which I remember being in Unity's books. There is a lot of time (I mean a LOT of time!!) spent on getting both vowel length and tone down with the vocab they expose you to.

Book three is almost all in thai (in fact some stories etc don't even have english translation to check if you're reading what you think) and there are little if any phonetics. Still it's a well put together book, again with TONZ of drills in toning and vowel length using single syllable and multi syllable nonsense words are over and over. Also there are short stories (sometimes only a paragraph or two long) in the ‘read for meaning’ format, with new vocab covered first, then questions at the end for discussion concerning comprehension, etc.

The pricing structure is in line with any other school offering that 20 day 6000baht dealy where you go 5 days a week, three hours a day for three week 'intensive-ish' program. I didn't ask them about any of their other programs, although their hand out says they offer visa assistance for people studying long term with them.

As far as 'kriswillems' pointing out the advanced courses being private instead of group; it would seem those are offered kinda like on an 'as needed' basis. They go over thai culture, buddhism, current news and events, thai folk tales, social problems, etc so pretty much in line with any Union based methodology which is offered for advanced students at many schools out there. They are for AFTER you've finished all 6 modules in their 'regular books' or demonstrate enough proficiency to get by in thai at that level.

In fact they have a class of Book 4 which is starting tomorrow afternoon (which I may go 'observe' if I feel bold ). That class has only a single foreigner enrolled in it. Evidently even if you're the only one in a class, if you signed up for group classes and you happen to be the only one in the 'group' you still get the class taught to you.

I talked to the owner/principal of the school for about an hour; the first 15 minutes or so in english and then almost all thai after it was apparent to her I could speak thai (albeit with my oh-so foreign accent, lol) as well as read and understand it too. She seems really motivated to provide a good solid foundation for foreigners to get their heads wrapped around the two of the most difficult things concerning speaking thai clearly; toning (of course), but also equally important (at least to me) proper vowel length. As I mentioned already; her books mirror this with drill after drill in both areas.

During our conversation, she had me read some text from book 4. Initially I read it to myself and then told her in english what it said, but that didn't play too well with her . Much to my embarrassment (as there were a couple other thais milling around the office as well as a Japanese student learning thai too!!); she had me read a paragraph aloud in thai. FWIW: She was amazed I could break the words apart in a sentence, and back translate it into english so quickly (then again, almost all my self practice in thai is based around word/phrase recognition). She said my tones weren't too god-awfully bad (although I think she was being kind to me ), and added she easily understood my thai, but that my vowel length needed a little (okay a lot ) more polishing especially multi syllable words which have the voiced yet unwritten vowels -ะ after a stand alone consonant and โ-ะ between two consonants.

I believe this schools is certainly material-wise on par with the best schools I've seen out there. While it's not particularly close to me, using the BTS from Asok Station where I live, I was out there in about 15 minutes, so no great distance either.

I forgot completely to stop into the Thai Language Solutions branch out there in the same building just a floor lower so can't comment on that particular branch. I do remember when I spoke to the owner at her main branch in the Fico Tower on Asok, she said her Phaya Thai branch would use different methodology and cater more to asians learning thai than american or european foreigners.

I'd certainly take a free lesson from Thai Language Achievement as I believe quality-wise it's right up there with Piammitr. While you're out there at Phaya Thai Plaza you might as well tour Thai Language Solutions too, just to see which method works best for you.

Again, please note, these are my experiences and in no way shape or form are endorsements for or against ANY thai language school or it's methodology. As I said before, a method I might think is the cat's meow, you may think sucks, and vice versa.

Good luck hope it helps you decide where to go, and sorry this post was so late coming, and also that it is soo long too. ..

The thai habit of "switching off their ears" as far as understanding thai when face to face with a foreigner is one of the most vexing traits thais exhibit here (and I've come across a fair few!).

It is frustrating to walk up to a thai, address them in thai, and have them stare blankly at you. Now I freely admit I speak thai with a foreign accent (after all I'm a foreigner ). I often start conversations with thais by asking them point blank right outta the gate in thai; "Can you speak/understand thai?", of course they always answer in the affirmative. I then reply, "Good, so can I, now this is what I need done. ..."

And not to piss on any of the illustrious posers <sic> , errr posters parade in their off topic rant about impolite words when referring to others BUT..

As recently as 25 years ago, even in central Bangkok it was neither impolite nor rude to call yourself กู, to call someone else มึง, and to refer to almost anyone as มัน. This has changed to some degree, but those words are still very much colloquially in use in an intimate family setting or with a circle of very close friends. It is my experience, in situations like I just outlined, the words carry NO negative connotation in any way shape or form and are just pronouns used in a familiar setting with people who are well known to the speaker. (In fact, it's not uncommon to hear older thais (55+ y/o) consistently use these pronouns as they were commonly spoken when they were growing up). Now if the above mentioned pronouns (which have morphed into carrying an impolite meaning nowadays) are said to a complete stranger, to someone who isn't a very close friend, or if they have anything negatively tagged on afterwards, then yes, I agree, they're totally inappropriate.

And the word อี when referring negatively about women is just as common as the word ไอ้ when referring negatively about men, they are negative trait emphasizing prefixes much like the word ขี้ is when placed in front of a descriptive word.

As An Aside; I know of a small thai company which has a service of providing 'mobile translators' for foreigners needing a fluent thai/engrish - engrish/thai speaker to facilitate what ever they're tryin to get done. Having seen them in action on more than one occasion, I can say that company went out of its way to make sure their thai translators DON'T engage in the almost obligatory yet often times mindless idle chatter which goes on in a normal thai-thai interaction. In fact, they're almost too blunt, too to the point, and too matter of fact, given the ultra-politeness that often surrounds even a meaningless thai conversation, but man do they get results.

This topic has come up several times, especially in the recent past.

I concur with 'lopburi3"; it is highly unlikely that Passport Control aka Immigrations at Suvarnabhumi Airport will stamp you in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp while you have a valid but unused tourist visa already in your passport.

Recent reports, (two people I know, who flew in on different days about two weeks ago tried to do just what you've outlined). They were both told they could get a 30 day visa exempt stamp BUT Immigrations would cancel the unused tourist visa. Immigrations told them to 'pick one or the other', but they wouldn't stamp them in on a 30 day visa exempt without canceling the tourist visa too. (One of the people had an unused double entry tourist visa, and when he enquired if they'd just cancel one entry, they said no, they'd cancel the entire tourist visa. ..

The O/P might be better served flying in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp, going to Cambodia and then securing a tourist visa for thailand at the consulate or embassy there for the return to thailand after the 'temple tour'.