Tod Daniels

You probably checked, but on the website thai-language-dot-com, they do indeed give the definition of พอ when it's used as an adverb to mean "upon; just when; as soon as; at the moment when”. ..

This is the link to the place on the page which covers it with the example sentences.

http://www.thai-language.com/id/131541#def2a

In fact, even the 1982 RID info provided on the site lists พอ as a วิเศษณ์ and uses; เมื่อ, ครั้นเมื่อ, เพิ่ง as equivalents.

I dunno about using เวลา to denote “when”, as I've never heard it spoken by the plethora of thais (from every corner of this country) which I routinely eavesdrop on daily here in Bangkok. That is not saying it’s not correct, or not in use; only that I haven’t heard it enough to remember it, if ever.

Although, again; thai-language does give examples to denote เวลา as 'when' in relation to time;

http://www.thai-language.com/id/131477#def2

Interesting thread never the less. ..

FWIW: In trying to keep this topic from straying as almost all topics do here, I decided to Google this topic anyway, and came up with this website;

http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prisoners-thailand.html

I dunno how accurate the info is, but still the site is a pretty interesting read never the less.

BTW: I am NOT affiliated with the above site and provide it for info only to the O/P's topic.

Interesting this topic came up;

I had an acquaintance try this very same thing last week upon entering thailand via Suvarnabhumi Airport. He had a triple entry Tourist Visa issued from an honorary Thai Consulate in the USA, which for some reason had a “must be used by date” of 9 months from when it was issued. He wanted to enter on a '30-day visa exempt stamp' FIRST, and then border run to activate the first entry on the Tourist Visa.

Now even though he DIDN'T write the Tourist Visa number on his entry card, the officers at the Immigrations and/or Passport Control desk, found it in his passport, and told him in no uncertain terms, ‘either use it or lose it’. In fact they were gonna stamp USED/CANCELED on the ENTIRE visa thereby negating it in its entirety.

At the end, even after hemming and hawing with them, they said, "You pick, one or the other..", and he chose to come in on the first entry of his Tourist Visa.

You mileage MAY vary, but I kinda doubt it.

However; IF it does, post back here and let us know.

I was on an ED visa (getting in country 90 day extensions of stay), and when I tried to convert it into an extension of stay based on retirement at Suan Plu, I was unable to do it, no matter how I tried to go about it.

I couldn't even get the Non-Immigrant Type-ED extension of stay converted into a single entry Non-Immigrant Type-O at Immigrations. Although I have seen NOTHING official (as in written in thai or english), which states this; I believe the Type-ED visa is the only one which can't be converted to an extension of stay based on retirement.

Now, as an aside and unrelated to the O/P’s question; a coupla months ago, I DID see a foreigner who was on an ED visa, cancel that visa, secure a Non-Immigrant Type-O, for reasons of being married to a thai national, get his '30 day under consideration’ stamp. He returned to Changwattana last month and received the balance of his yearly extension of stay stamped into his passport, BUT this was for marriage, NOT retirement.

In my situation, the Immigrations Official I dealt with TWICE, first at Suan Plu, then at Changwattana after they moved offices, said I had to go out of the country and secure a single entry 90 day Non-Immigrant Type-O visa, and then when there was a month left on it, apply in country for a yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

I went to Vientiane Lao, and although I wasn't even 50 years old at the time I applied for the visa; seeing as I would be 50 BEFORE the 90 day would run out, they issued it with no problem. They didn't even take the health certificate, or the verification of sufficient funds. (I had all that documentation but the thai consulate in Vientiane returned it to me as un-needed). I received a single entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa without any hitch there in Vientiane.

IF any poster knows of someone who’s converted a Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa into a yearly extension of stay based on retirement inside the country please post your info. By that, I mean if someone has had first-hand experience of this, not the normal b/s conjecture post of "I heard from someone that someone else, blah, blah, blah...").

Now maybe other immigrations offices handle things differently but this was my experience at Suan Plu/Changwattana in Bangkok.

It would also appear the O/P secured a Multi Entry Year Long Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa in his home country and is leaving every 90 days rather than using the 'in-country 90 extensions" (although that is just what I gleaned by reading his post, and I freely admit I could be wrong). On that type of visa a person can stay almost 15 months, by running for the border before the "must be used by" date (or expiration date) stamped on the visa itself; (which is NOT the same date as the 'permitted to stay until stamp" you get when you enter thailand).. This would lead me to believe that IF the o/p were to border run around Oct 16th, he'd get stamped in for another 90 days.

Good luck. Let us know how it all washes out for you. ..

Ahh, another 4 post newbie, asking biting yet insightful questions about all thingz whacky-n-wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" . The mind wobbles that this post has run 4 frickin' pages of marginal entertainment. ..

While this post is long, it is of marginal interest none the less. ..

FWIW: A short history lesson is required. If go far enough back in history (real history not the spoon fed rhetoric thai schools cram down the children’s throats nowadays), you will see nearly every thai in this country came from China.

The migration of the original Tai people began during the first few centuries of the Christian era, from what is believed to be the Guizhou and Guangxi areas in southern china, just northeast of present day Vietnam. Between the 5th and 8th centuries the ancestors of the speakers of the Southwestern group of the Tai language settled near the Black River, which runs from southern China into northern Vietnam and northeastern Laos. One group even went as far as the Assam area in the northeast corner of India. Some moved along the Mekong River and settled in Laos and northern Thailand, yet even others went further south and settled in northeastern Thailand. By the 13th century Tais had already settled many parts of present day thailand. At that time, thais for the most part, were only in several VERY small areas of present day thailand. Although NEVER mention to a thai that Bangkok was Khmer land once as they tend to come unhinged at this thought, and NEVER EVER say that almost all eastern thailand was Burma as that unhinges them too! Consider yourself warned! . Thais were mostly in Sukothai in central thailand, Lan Na & Payao, in the north). As the Ankor and Burman empires declined in power and lost their stranglehold on the region this changed until the thais hacked out what is mostly present day thailand.

So like I said, go back far enough in time and ALL thais are of Chinese ancestry.

But enough of the history lesson, and kudos for people who’ve read this far;

It is my experience the average, run-of-the-mill foreign miscreant, err I meant foreign expat, is unlikely to ever have any meaningful dialog with the plethora of rich, hi-so, white skinned, uni-educated thai-nese (thai-chinese) which populate this country.

True, you may catch a glimpse of them in their natural habitat, during their weekly shopping forays at Siam Paragon, Emporium, Gaysorn. You will also see them in every television commercial, or on every b/s thai soap opera. You will however, rarely see them in vehicles; due to the black out tinting they use on their multi-million baht face-gaining ‘status symbol’ modes of transportation.

That someone would make a post about one's ability at discerning between what ever the O/P means by 'native thais' and the 'thai-nese' (many who've been here for GENERATIONS and are just as much thai as anyone else) shows the fixation foreigners have with this 'breed' of people, (the thai-nese I mean).

I feel even worse now too, that I found it necessary to reply to this thread.

One other option I neglected to mention is traveling to Lao via rail.

The over-nite express train to Nong-Khai which leaves Hua Lamphong could also be a possibility. The thai trains have shared first class 'rooms' (upper - lower bunk), a food car, and really for the price aren't all that bad. It would afford people the ability to get up and walk around (stretch their legs) when ever they want, versus the tour bus or mini-van mode where you stop only every coupla hours.

In Nong Khai you walk across the platform and switch to the train which crosses the 'friendship' bridge into Lao PDR. The Immigrations office on the Lao side is nearly empty all the time, as currently the train service is way under utilized.

Anyway, just a thought, good luck, keep at it. ..

If you are picked up at any time before you go <SNIPPED OUT USLESS SCARE MONGERING>

Good luck.

I’m glad I'm not the only one who’s getting tired of hearing the same old mantra of FINE-PRISON-DEPORTATION on every frickin’ thread that even mentions overstays.

Could it happen; yes. Does it happen as much as the scaremongers on the forum think it does; probably NOT. True, you get caught out and about by the ‘regular police’ and they’ll either turn you over to Immigrations or ‘fine’ you on your way. They have HUGE discretion in this area, and it is my experience that the regular police don’t necessarily wanna &lt;deleted&gt; around with b/s visa stuff as it’s not cost effective for them.

Interestingly enough;

For the first time in my oh-so many trips out to Thai Immigrations; I just accompanied an 'acquaintance' out to Changwattana who was on a multi-year overstay; (in part due to some of the reasons which put the O/P is in the position he's in) .

Be that as it may, he'd already secured a ticket out of the country BEFORE we went to Changwattana. We went to the overstay area, he paid his 20,000baht fine and then we got him the 'emergency 7 day' extension for an additional 1900baht and we were on our way.

Funny thing was, as he was scheduled to fly out later the same evening, the officer at Changwattana said he could have easily paid the fine at the airport, and when we got the 7 day extension, the officer said, "You leave tonite, you don't really need it, just show them that you paid the fine already and you can go, no problem."

In the end; as he was visiting some old friends in a nefarious nite life district before he went to the airport, he decided to get the extension just in case he was questioned by the police down there, (which he wasn't).

Just got an email from him, and when he was stamped out at immigrations at the airport they didn't even wanna see that he'd paid the overstay, as he already was on a 'valid' albeit 7 day extension of stay and had his ticket out.

DON'T panic, obviously with as long as you've overstayed, you know how to not run amuck, or you'd have certainly muck run already.

You can do it either way, at your local Immigrations or out at the airport. I suggest going the local Immigrations route, along with the 7 day emergency visa, but it ain't gonna really matter if you keep your nose clean before you get to the airport.

Good Luck man. ..

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This is how it'd go written vertically.

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As to the health issues, I couldn't comment other than, given the numbers of foreigners who tattoo stuff on their skin here in Thailand, IF contagious diseases were very rampant, someone woulda 'exposed' it already.

FWIW: at most tattoo festivals, they'll tattoo anyone who pony's up the money, no matter the color of your skin.

The one you mention "Wha Bang Phra", I believe you really mean the one held at "Wat Bang Phra" located a coupla hours outside Bangkok. I highly doubt they'd be any different than most,

Google:“Wat Bang Phra, Thailand” in quotes just like I typed it, there're plenty of foreigners who've written good blogs and articles about the tattoo festival held there.

Well the first and most obvious benefit of an education visa is most likely the errr , education, (hence the catchy name) .

At least you're studying some subject or other; even if it's only for the government minimum of 4 hours a week.

Seeing as most foreigners study thai under this sort of visa, I don't see any down side to actually being able to communicate with thais in THAI either, do you?

Factor in that you can study thai (or any language) for at least 3-5 years on an ED visa without leaving the country. Although I don't know anyone whos studied at a school that long, if you believe what the schools are saying, it seems possible.

That gives a person quite the uninterrupted stay here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" versus a double entry tourist visa, two 30 day in-country extensions, and then running for a thai embassy/consulate again to start over.

Plus you're not here as a 'perpetual tourist'. .. That's not saying the people who are on ED visas aren't tourists, just they hold a different visa than your typical 'runner' does.

Dunno if you could get a thai driver's license on a tourist visa or not, but doubt it. Open a bank account on a tourist visa, maybe, but again doubtful. An ED visa can open those avenues for a person with little if any problem. Those are advantageous things to have here. A thai D/L means never carrying your passport, and well a bank account here is self explanatory.

FWIW: Although I posted this on another thread Ill put it here too.

In thailand an education visa has a rather broad interpretation of what constitutes education. I know foreigners living here studying; English, Thai, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, (and just about any other language as long as it's NOT your native language ). I also know people here studying scuba diving, buddhism, muay-thai fighting, and even one person going to culinary school to learn to cook thai food.

All of them are currently here on ED visas. Youre not limited to studying the thai language, only that you hafta get some type of education. As long as where ever you go is registered/licensed by the Ministry of Education youll get paperwork from them to secure your first visa and your subsequent extensions of stay at 1900baht every 90 days.

I think there are more benefits than detriments once everything is factored in.

Is it more costly to go the ED visa route than to be a 'runner'?

Possibly in terms of cash up front, as you pay your yearly tuition FIRST, and currently that's about 25000baht for a year's study at most of the well known private thai schools.

But how much does the average 'runner' spend on travel outta the country, hotels, food, etc to get two double entry tourist visas a year? It adds up, even if you're a budget traveler. Plus your time, effort slogging outta the country, securing the visas, worrying about if this time they'll say you have too many tourist visas and will be 'red stamped'. All of that hasta be factored in versus the ED visa route.

Going the ED visa route you get something for that money besides the ability to stay here without much hassle, and that's got worth any way you slice it.

Currently the ED visa seems to be a catch all for various curriculums of study. I know people who have them for studying english, thai, chinese, japanese, korean, (and just about any other language you might wanna study), as well as for studying; buddhism, scuba diving & muay-thai fighting. I even know one person who is attending a culinary school, learning to cook thai food whose on an ED visa. So it seems there is quite a broad interpretation of education.

As long as the school is registered/licensed with the Ministry of Education, after you pay your tuition, they (the school) supplies you with documentation to go to any thai embassy or consulate and you could get at least a single entry 90 day Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa.

Then as a previous poster pointed out, you'd get more paperwork from your school and extend the visa every 90 days at your local Thai Immigrations office for 1900baht.

FWIW: There's a school which has branches in both the Times Square Building on Sukhumvit near Soi 12, and the Thaniya Building on Silom near the BTS Sala Daeng station, which I think is called; Thai Language Station. They teach thai, also Japanese and I think Korean too.

They could probably give you the info about what you're wanting to do.

Google Thai Language Solutions Bangkok

Good luck.

Not to piss on anyone's parade, but. ...

I think a little more info from the O/P is in order to properly answer their questions. Certainly there’s no need to just parrot out 'pat' answers concerning a 'visa exempt' entry like; "enter by air 30 days, enter by land 15".

What type of 'student' visa does the O/P have? Was it a single entry ED and then they secured extensions of stay in-country every 90 days?

OR

Did they get a year long multiple re-entry Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa in their country and border run every 90 days to continue staying here?

Quite honestly, without knowing the answer to EITHER of the two above questions, any advice offered is unlikely to yield accurate reliable results.

The initial part of the O/P's post can be discounted as it seems more like their past history. (Other than confirming that a land crossing garners only 15 days).

Currently the O/P is on a 'student' (ED) visa, but again, what exact type of ED is it?

That makes a BIG difference whether they can just border run one more time just before it expires and secure another 90 day 'permitted to stay until' stamp; like ALL year long multi entry Non-Immigrant visa holders can (NOT extension holders), or whether they're really running outta time.

Given the O/P's stated goal; of "needing" another 6 months here , if indeed they are running the clock down a good option would be a double entry tourist visa, plus a 30 day in-country extensions on each entry.

BUT again, until we know the exact type of ED visa they're here under, (and NO I didn't go read their posting history , as it's just easier to ask questions), no one can give real answer to all of the O/P's question, now can they?

I seem to recall a private thai language school somewhere (Hua Hin, Cha-Am maybe), which I corresponded with some months back.

They said they could secure a single entry 90 day Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa inside the country.

Now maybe the documentation they get from the Ministry of Education is different from MOST other private thai language schools. Most all of the private thai language schools here in Bangkok get documentation from the MOE which clearly states you need to go to a THAI EMBASSY or CONSULATE (and as there's no such animal INSIDE thailand that means going to another country).

In your post I think you might have your offices mixed up a 'bittle lit' <sic> as well . Perhaps you really meant "once they get approval from the Ministry of Education, they (as in the school) goes to Immigrations and gets you your actual 'visa stamp'.

The Ministry of Education DOESN'T issue visas, just approval (as in documentation) for you to get one. Last time I checked, once you're inside thailand only Thai Immigrations issues visas and/or extensions of stay.

Once you do get your visa, see what Immigrations office it's issued from. Also if you can make a post about it back here in your thread, it'd be good to know.

Don't panic, if the school says they can do it, well, who are you to question them? Just because no one on here has heard of it, doesn't mean that sort of animal doesn't exist, only that we haven't seen it. ..

I'll also look back in my emails and see if I can't find the school I talked to about this and who said they could do it as well.

Good Luck,

In situations like this it is always advantageous to get the names and if possible the thai I/D card numbers of any witnesses (I know, neither easy nor practical to do in all situations but still).

I'd also file a report with the local police regarding the assault, even if you don't press charges.

Once you've documented this type of behaviour with a paper trail it can be ever so helpful in future legal battles, custody etc.

Sorry to hear about it though.

You'd think for the children's sake, even adults on the outs would take the gloves off. Then again, children are the most commonly used 'weapons of choice' once things fall apart, no matter the country.

Again sorry to hear about that.

It would appear the O/P has secured a YEARLY extension of stay based on the original post. It would also appear the O/P HAD previously secured a multi-entry year long visa from somewhere else, perhaps their home country. This type of visa would have entailed leaving the country every 90 days as the visa is ONLY good for stays in-country of up to 90 days at a time.

BUT it would also appear the O/P decided to go for an 'in-country extension of stay, (which from the post seems to have been granted for a year).

What the O/P doesn't seem to understand is the first visa was CANCELED when they applied for an in country extension of stay and the multi-reentry part was also canceled. They're now NOT here on the original visa but on an 'extension of stay' based on that visa.

This is why posters are telling her to get a multiple re-entry permit as it would have the same validity of her current extension of stay which seems from the post to be August 2011

I totally dispute information in the post by IMA_FARANG mentioning a 'triple re-entry' permit. In my experience a RE-ENTRY PERMIT is either single, 1000baht; get to leave and come back ONCE, or they're multiple, 3800baht, meaning you can come and go as many times as you want within your extension of stay and ALWAYS get the same date stamped in as your original 'permitted to stay until" stamp when you return. As I said in the O/P's case it would appear that is until August 2011.

The O/P is also confused about 90 day reporting which ONLY hasta be done if you stay in-country 90 days. Leave before 90 days and when you come back the clock starts counting down again. BTW; 90 day reporting is free.

Perhaps I've got it wrong but this isn't the first case I've ever seen where a person secured a Multi-Entry Non-Immigrant Type ED visa from their home country before comin' here and elected to go the in-country extension route thereby canceling their initial visa and the re-entry permit tied to it. In fact it was such a problem at some private thai language schools I know of they made a handout outlining the issue. There were more than a few students who were pissed that their extensions of stay were only 90 days, and their first multiple re-entry visa was canceled once they extended in country.

FWIW: great the O/P got a year, perhaps she's going to a 'real' uni, as it's my experience attending almost any private thai language school will get you just another 90 days per extension NOT a year.

So once she gets a multiple re-entry permit she can come and go as many times between now and August 2011 as she wants to.

And yes, I concur, IF she were to leave the country BEFORE securing a re-entry permit her current extension of stay would be canceled.

As an aside to the O/P; this is the link to the form to apply at Immigrations (at least in Bangkok) for a re-entry permit;

If you think you’re gonna be comin’ in and outta the country more than 3 times between now and August 2011 mark the multiple re-entry box on the form. It’ll cost you 3800baht.

Oh and BTW if it is a two paged form print it front and back on ONE piece of A4 paper.

Perhaps a little more info from the O/P is in order as it could be helpful in answering the question.

Where exactly in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" are you located or intending to study thai; Bangkok, Pattaya, the South, Chiang Mai, Issan, or up country in Nakhon Nowhere?

There is certainly NO shortage of private thai language schools in the Bangkok Metro area, which are registered with the Ministry of Education and can issue you the paperwork to secure a Non-Immigrant Type-ED visa at a neighboring country's thai embassy/consulate.

As has been pointed out, you're unlikely to get more than a single entry Non-O, Type-ED visa attending a private thai language school, even after paying a year's tuition up front (the standard deal most schools have going now). Now your mileage may vary when enrolling in a 'real' university's thai language study program. Usually for a private thai language school, unless you secure the visa in your home country prior to comin' here (where I have seen multi-entry year long Non-O Type ED visas issued for students),it is highly unlikely you'd get more than a single entry 90 day Non-O Type ED.

After that, the school will provide you with additional documentation to secure you an in-country '90 day extension of stay' based on learning the thai language at your local thai immigrations office. This is done for the entire year, at the cost of 1900baht per extension of stay.

Again depending on where you are in thailand, there is probably a school not too far from you which can meet your needs. FWIW; now some schools (forum sponsors too) offer lessons online via Skype, if you're not near one of their branches.

Good luck.

Here's a memorable quote from Nicolas Cage playing Yuri Orlov from the 2005 movie "Lord of War";

Yuri Orlov: The reason I'll be released is the same reason you think I'll be convicted. I do rub shoulders with some of the most vile, sadistic men calling themselves leaders today. But some of these men are the enemies of your enemies. And while the biggest arms dealer in the world is your boss - the President of the United States, who ships more merchandise in a day than I do in a year - sometimes it's embarrassing to have his fingerprints on the guns. Sometimes he needs a freelancer like me to supply forces he can't be seen supplying. So, you call me evil, but unfortunately for you, I'm a necessary evil.

Sadly, I think more governments than would EVER admit it, have used his 'services' at one time or another. ..

Okay, the movie had sooo many good lines, here's one more;

Yuri Orlov: There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?

In reference to the earlier post by 'Buchholz' and the amazing photo proof of the efficacy of weight loss via the thai penal system, here's a new slogan; "LOSE WEIGHT NOW! ASKE ME HOW: THAI PRISON"

marrying into a very affluent Thai family (all Thai citizens) all very mature people who hold quite high positions in their chosen vocations.

Amongst the close friends, allies and extended family who populate their social whirl, are high (and low) ranking police officials, the head of a major Thai bank, an immigration official, probably the most senior person at the department of labour in this district and several other very influential members of society.

I am very well advised about what I can and cannot do in this country by people who were born, brought up, educated and to all intents and purpose, have a hand in the administration of the kingdom's structural system.

Oh that we could all share in your obvious good fortune with your influential, well connected, and soon to be "extended thai-family". Sadly, although the posters of T/V would have you believe they all married rich, well-connected, hi-so, white skinned, uni-educated thai-nese (Thai-Chinese) women/families, it is my experience few actually have.

Despite my earlier comments and your obvious denigration of them out of hand ;

I do believe your idea has merit, and if gone about the correct way could generate a positive cash flow. Unfortunately, one only needs to look at ANY of the visa run companys busses, which leave from a plethora of locations around Metropolitan Bangkok every day, to see that their target demographic is more budget minded foreigners who live here visa run to visa run, be they Aussiez, Kiwiz, Amercanz, Britz, EU people or maids and nannies from the Philippines runnin for the border.

As has been pointed out there are some higher end services offered, but again, Ive seen far too few high end visa runners here. That is not the same as saying, they dont exist, or that they wouldn't pay for a premium service; just that they don't use the services Ive seen offered and routinely refer people to.

I think if you put together an all inclusive mixed air/mini-van travel type dealy to Lao PDR, where you flew BKK to UTH (Bangkok to Udon Thani), then put them in mini-vans for the short ride to the border, switch em to a Lao run mini-van company, and on to the hotel, it certainly could work.

Just as if you flew them directly from BKK to VTE (Bangkok to Vientiane); more costly, but far more time efficient at the Lao airport versus crossing at the friendship bridge in terms of visas into Lao.

Another option is to secure the customers visas to Lao BEFORE they depart via the Lao Embassy in Bangkok; there-by streamlining what is always a tough row to hoe, at the border. Its never ever a problem getting outta thailand; its the log-jam getting into Lao which hangs people up at the Friendship bridge entry point. Even current visa run companies have hiccups which take a while to resolve there.

Almost ANY hotel in Vientiane will offer you bulk discounts on X number of rooms, simply by asking. FWIW; as recent as 2 years ago, Air Asia would sell blocks of tickets (if you had more than 20 people) at a reduced rate as well, although that is several year old info and may have changed (given the pricing war Air Asia is currently involved in to dominate the S/E Asian air travel market).

Again, your idea has merit, possibility, yet an unknown number of potential customers in your target demographic. Real demographics are hard to come by here, and even a poll on this forum is unlikely to yield meaningful results.

Thats the lynch-pin, because if you cant sell seats; no matter how great your service is, youre outta business almost before you start.

I agree with you; Thaivisarunner on your observation;

The main ingredients required for this are connections, influence, and being among the correct mix of people.

I have found repeatedly greasing a proverbial squeaky wheel to secure your connection to this or that, is a self defeating process. Inevitably the wheel begins to require more and more grease to function in its capacity. It is much more who you or your thai family knows, than who you happen to be paying to 'know'.

Good luck in your endeavor, until you come up with a base cost of service(s), and then a retail price for said services as in modes of travel, hotels, visas, food, etc, you dont know if itll fly or not. You're out nothing but time and effort figuring it out, and you seem to have both in abundance.

I am sorry my posting penchants run closer to the critical side of the fence than the "sounds like a great idea, go ahead and piss your money away" side. Just the pessimistic realist in me I guess.

Once again, good luck. ..

-If a syllable ends with a consonant the implicit vowel is a โ-ะ

-And in multi-syllable words, if a syllable ends with a vowel, it is an implicit -ะ

The difficult thing (for me anyway) is how to correctly split up words in syllables, because sometimes a consonant is both the end consonant of 1 syllable and the initial consonant of the next, i.e. ผลไม้

And I still haven't figured out why a word like อร่อย has an implicit -ะ , and a word like อะไร hasn't

Well, if you use the basic rule above, at least you can make an educated guess

Now we could be thinking along the same lines just looking at it differently, BUT:

I think for clarity (at least mine) your post should read like this

-If a syllable ends with a consonant the implicit vowel is a โ-ะ

So for instance คน ends with a consonant, so the implicit vowel is a โ-ะ

-And in multi-syllable words, if a syllable ends with a vowel, I believe you mean IF a syllable is a STAND ALONE CONSONANT, it carries an implicit -ะ as the UNWRITTEN but VOICED vowel sound.

For a multi-syllable word like ถนน , which has 2 syllables, ถ and นน: the first syllable ends with a vowel is a STAND ALONE CONSONANT, so that's an implicit -ะ. The second syllable ends with a consonant, so the implicit vowel here is a โ-ะ

At least I'm glad to see I'm not the only one unsure of how to split up an unfamiliar thai words, syllable by syllable. I agree it confuses the mix even further when there are two consonants in one syllable (which would an implied โ-ะ), BUT then the last consonant from the previous paired set, is ALSO a stand alone forming the next single consonant syllable with the implied -ะ.

Another thing I also have trouble with is; knowing when a การันต์ <-- (the symbol above the last letter in the previous word) cancels out more than one consonant at the end of a word. Interestingly enough, my wall chart doesn't list this symbol as การันต์; which is the colloquial name for the symbol, but as ทัณฑฆาต. When I looked it up, it means "execution by capital punishment", quite the fitting definition (especially as we are executing the sound of the letter it's over), so I guess looking at the definition, the official name is เครื่องหมายทัณฑฆาต. Although I dunno how many thais would know this; as I’ve only heard it referred to (even in thai language school) as การันต์.

Good thread, good topix too. ..

Note to the O/P and the illustrious posters in the T/V Thai Language Sub-Forum:

Quite honestly, (despite my very curt and acerbic writing style) I didn't mean the O/P any disrespect when I mentioned my lack-'o-interest in thai culture.

It's just been my experience, that once you get basic/intermediate spoken thai down to a degree, the next class offered in almost EVERY private thai language school seems to revolve around 'thai culture'. I am not downing it by any means, (having sat in on a fair number of them) only commenting that it personally isn't 'my cup 'o tea' . I'd rather read and talk about something else; be it, current world or thai events, articles in the thai papers, gossip about the thai superstars, even thai politics, wouldn't be that bad.

I sincerely hope if the O/P is planning on teaching thai to foreigners, that either she already has or will develop some 'thick skin', and doesn't take any of the questions or valid points raised by any poster(s) here to heart.

Again, although I rarely apologize in my life for anything I do (with my life motto being along the lines of; NEVER forgive, NEVER forget & NEVER apologize), this time I offer my heartfelt apology if I've offended the O/P or any of the posters here with my comments.

I'd also ask, if anyone does take a lesson with her to post their experience here too.

Good luck to the O/P in her endeavor. ..

Professor Wiworn Kesavatana-Dohrs Ph.d of the University of Washington...<SNIP>

I think that theory is a bit of a myth actually, and I've certainly yet to see any empirical reseach to prove it. Reading doesn't teach you correct pronunciation and intonation - copying native speakers does.

She's the one whose got a book out called "Everyday Thai for Beginners". It's got abso-tively posi-lutely NO engrish transliteration or transcription. Sadly neither does it even have the RID pronunciation guide; which once you can read thai gets you pretty close to a words pronunciation.

I hafta agree with "SoftWater" and his response. I can read fine, back translate most everything I read into engrish (meaning I am comprehending what I am reading). However, my pronunciation and intonation when I read aloud to my thai friends often leaves them almost rolling on the floor with laughter as it's so off the mark . I pause at the wrong time during a sentence (like in the middle of a compound word, use the wrong tone or vowel length for a word, or something else.

The poster known as "Groongthep" raised some valid points.

I know too many thais that are fairly well educated, yet they couldn't teach thai to foreigners if they had to. For one they don't have the patience, nor the necessary skills to run a class room of foreign students (who don't act like thais), and finally they have NO lesson plan, no textbooks, no workbooks, making it just another futile attempt to learn the language.

And now on to a snippet of what the poster known as "Peppy" said;

Holidays, music, religious ceremonies, movies, politics, history, superstitions, traditions, fashion, food

Sadly on this we must agree to disagree. (but don't take it personally, because I sure don't)..

Holidays: NO, I've never been to a country that's got as many frickin' holiday's as this one. They seem to 'adopt' any foreign holiday where you give gifts, and '&lt;deleted&gt;' the rest. Plus there are more holiday's here tied into their religion than you could shake a frickin' stick at.

Music: Yes, SOME music is good, and some music here is shit. Pretty much just like any country, . ..

Religious Ceremonies: That's their deal NOT mine. I ain't buddhist, and while I respect they are, that's about where it ends for me.

Movies: Tell me when did you actually see a GOOD thai movie. ..

Politics: It's the same the world over, except the corruption is a little more 'in your face'.

History: Sorry man, don't care about thai history. This ain't my country, I live here by choice NOT chance. While I have studied 'recent' thai political history as it relates to the turmoil today, that's about it.

Superstitions: They are funny in an anecdotal way, as it relates to idioms.

Traditions: Covered under the heading "History"..

Fashion: This evolves SOO fast the world over, that I can't even keep up with it, but from what I've seen, thais are copiers, not innovators in this area.

Food: Thai food is thai food, just like food in Brazil is brazil food.

So after giving my rebuttal of those 10 points; I still think a foreigner COULD safely speak POLITE thai (as in mid-level) and get away with just about anything else, based soley on the fact that they're a foreigner.

Is it right, probably not, but will it fly, probably so.

Sadly, (mostly for the thais); my goal is NOT to understand ‘who these people are’, but to communicate to them in an efficient and language neutral manner. (By language neutral, I mean I neither speak down to them nor do they speak down to me). By no wild stretch of my imagination do I wanna be everyone’s friend here. I just wanna understand what they’re saying to me and have them understand me when I talk to ‘em too.

That's why I asked if the O/P would be interested in teaching a thai conversation class. But now, after knowing my obvious 'limitations' in thai I highly doubt it.. Anyway it was worth a shot. Anything to increase my thai language skills.. .. BTW; what's the colloquial idiom for that "any port in a storm"??

As my grand mom would say; "JESUS H. CHRIST"!!!

If there are enough people, you could charter a double decker tour bus from Bangkok to Vientiane Lao. Or are you tryin' to get the people doing that 15 day shit?

Find me 25 or 30 people and I'll figure it out. Start in Bangkok, and stop every 2 hours for a break at; Korat, Khon-Kaen, Nong-Khai, the border, and then Vientiane.. Sheesh. ..

It is about as far from rocket science as you could throw a pile of buffalo dung..

What you're NOT gonna do is cut into the business of ANY 'real' visa run companies here.. They're just not gonna let it happen. In fact, they'll shut you down so fast your head will spin!!

Plus. .. What you do NOT have is a 'connection' at the border to 'facilitate' your crossing outta, and into ANY country. That fact, in and of itself, is WORTH its weight in GOLD!! Otherwise, you’re stuck at the border doing passports one by one, instead of a 'stack' at a time.

As an Aside; who even uses that armpit of a border at Aranyaprathet/Poipet anyway??? NO ONE except thais who want to gamble at the 7 casinos, and frickin' tourists wanting another 14 days!!! Okay, maybe Jack’s Golf uses it, and you stay at the casino hotel, while they run you passports up to Phnom Penh to get your visa, but NO ONE else uses that border. ..

If you need to get another 15 days, go to Baan Laem. There are no people, no hassle, and it is way faster, IF you know the way. ..

Like I said, you find 25 or 30 people and I'll frickin' get 'em to Vientiane Lao, ALL INCLUSIVE; travel, hotel, visas in and outta Lao, and seeing as tourist visa's are free for thailand, I won't even charge you for them.. Christ, I’ll even feed you once you return to thailand in Nong Khai, a thai buffet.

You find the people, I'll give you the price per person, but it will be nearly the same as EVERYONE who already does that run. They're cutting their margins pretty close, and tryin' to make it up on volume.

Good Luck,

Now, after you’ve been here maybe 3 or 4 years, your rose colored glasses and tin-foil hat might come off, (but immediately put your tin-foil hat back on!! ) . I know people who’ve been here 15 years who still wear ‘rose colored glasses’, maybe you’re of that ‘ilk’.

&lt;deleted&gt;??? (As in What The &lt;deleted&gt;??)

Why did you write your reply in a GIANT FONT??

To answer your question;

No I don't think the culture of any place you decide to live has ANYTHING to do with the language you are trying to learn, AT ALL!! But, maybe I don't have the experience, (as I've only lived in 5 countries other than the US) so I could be very wrong on this ...

IF a person speaks POLITE, (no matter what country or language) it is MORE than enough ..

As long as you're not speaking "horse-peak" <-(slang for how a whore would speak) or a very low level version of the language, you're pretty much okay no matter where you go, or who you speak to. Face it few of us, IF any are gonna meet thai royalty. So for a foreigner that part is nonsense to learn!!

(Strange though, I've met 4 P/M's here, yet spoke engrish EVERY time and too a person, they answered in engrish too, go figure! EVEN Samak)

FWIW: I have abso-tively, posi-lutely NO interest in 'thai culture'. This is NOT my country, just some country which I decided to live in. Yet despite that, I interact and talk to many different 'levels' of thais on a daily basis. We converse about various topics in thai; politics, super-stars, religion, weather, b/s stuff, etc.

Am I wrong with my line of thought? NO, I am a "foreigner", now living here, for just over 5 years, (yet I've only studied thai semi-seriously, for close to 3 years now). Still, for the most part, I'm 'exempt' from actions thai people would think are a inherently a 'thai cultural' thing, if only by the fact; that I AM a foreigner.

I just asked you (before the MODZ block your email) if you would be interested in teaching a thai conversation course that DIDN'T revolve around how great this country is.. Because really, it is NO worse and NO better than most other countries in the ENTIRE world!!

Sadly, if you can't see (or accept) that fact; you are NOT the teacher for me or the people I have lined up to take a course..

In thai-speak I will tell you; Good luck for you in your life, I hope some day, some time, you will remember that we had this conversation, and not be TOOOO sad!!!

Thanx though. I almost thought I had a teacher for thai conversation.

<SNIPPED>. But I know your are the resident expert.

No, no, no, NOT me: but YOU! I am about as far from a thai visa expert as you could 'shake a proverbial stick"!

You seem to be the "expert in residence" about ED visas. Tell us how it really is; "Colabamumbai"..

While I don't want to turn this thread into a frickin' pissing match:

FWIW; I can read you posting history and know what you've said before. Just like you can read mine too. So either deal with it, (or take it to your grave) .

You either help people with your "sage words 'o wisdom" or you don't (in this country, last time I checked, there is NO middle ground) ; you help people with your advice or you DON'T ..

Suck it up an don't be such a pussy, about your current situation here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

Next time we can only hope that you will give "helpful advice", not your normal rhetoric, okay?

BTW: how is that marriage to the Korat gurl going for you, good, bad, or what ??

No harm, no foul (and NO disrespect intended to ANY poster on this thread.) .. ..

FWIW: the O/P (as in; the person who started this thread, CAN still, (with proper documentation go to ANY neighboring thai consulate/embassy and secure another 90 day Single Entry Non-Immigrant Type-ED Visa). ONE which can be extended at their local thai immigrations office for another 90 days for the price of ฿1900.

To the O/P; I say get the paperwork from your school and GO, GO, GO!!!

I too find 60 credit hours in FIVE years more than slightly outta whack, no matter how you parse it out. &lt;deleted&gt; did she do in the US, the rest of the time? Christ what's she on; the frickin' "20 year plan" to become a doctor .

I also wondered about the existing credit hours being 'lost' . Sorry once you pay and pass they're your credit hours . Now maybe the school is refusing to provide transcripts of said hours, until the funds in arrears are covered (NOT totally unheard of). However to say outright the credits would be lost, sounds like total rubbish and/or some creative embellishment on the news coverage.

There are certainly NO shortage of ‘host-families’, in fact they're situated near almost EVERY university in the US, so that in and of itself isn’t strange. Now allowing a host family to run your finances, well, that's a little out there.

I know of at least 6 or 7 thai nationals in Colorado who stay with US host-families. In fact, one retired married couple re-did the entire basement of their home to make separate boys and girls dorm like settings. It's got gender separated bath/shower facilities, a shared kitchen, HUGE open study area, entertainment area with a flat screen, internet, cable and DVD player, etc.

It's a slick set up and they're booked out over a year in advance. FWIW: this is just one example of how a host family (in this case retired Uni professors) made home-stay while attending uni in the US a more enjoyable experience than the dorm set up on campus.

I am sure there's no shortage of people in the US or ________ <-insert the country of your choice here, (evidently, as long as it's NOT thailand ) who would exploit foreign students and that this isn't an isolated case no matter where you are.

As an aside; I see the wanna-b-thai, mindless, sheep-like foreign sock puppets, aka; "thai apologists" are already out in force on this thread, ready to quickly point the finger at anything OTHER than the problems which do exist here once the 'rose colored glasses' come off, (but, remember NEVER remove your 'tin-foil hat'!!). Great work guys, way to stay on the ball, and increase your post...

If in fact the host mother really did what she’s accused of I hope she’s prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as what she is accused of doing, sounds reprehensible.

At first blush, something indeed seems "rotten in Denmark" (and no disrespect meant against the Danes either, it's JUST a frickin' idiom) .