saeb

I'm an American married to a Thai. Our children, two boys and a girl, have American birth certificates and passports. We are getting our kids their Thai birth certificates and they will have Thai passports in the next year or so.

We plan on moving to Thailand in about three years. I will probably have the option of using either US or Thai passports for my kids to enter and stay in the Kingdom at that time.

While staying in Thailand on a Thai passport would be very convenient for my kids because of no worries about visa runs, overstays, etc., what would be the possibility of conscription into the Thai Army for my two boys? One would be turning eighteen when we arrive and the other would be starting high school.

I know that not all Thai males serve in the military because of a quasi-lottery system and because $$ will bet you out of it. Years ago, my wife's brother got out of Thai military service after paying a sum, even though he is from a relativily poor background.

Thanks.

In the office we have 8 males between 28 - 46, all Uni educated. None of them did conscription.

Where I previously lived - no Uni graduates and about 60% had been conscripted.

There are various deferments or opt outs available - one is to be part of a school cadet force for a certain time (I forget the years) and this lies in lieu of conscription.

There are lots of 'get outs' if you ask around.

Mind you - if your kids are going to hold dual nationality, I think looking at the immediate future that they are far more liable to be conscripted by the US military.

It wouldn't take much to have it re-introduced in the current sabre rattling climate.............

Nice avatar. Don't forget: You shouldn't call the doctor if you can't afford the bills!

I prefer "Cheque Book".......seems more pertinent to BKK.

A tragic moment indeed when reading the 'Post over my pre-lunch G&T (or 3) in the old Heidelberg

Soi 4 - to read that Lee Brilleaux had died. Seems just like yesterday..........

Him and Rory Gallagher went in short order ; See, alcohol kills!.

A fourteen year old was gang raped on a bus in broad daylight and nobody lifted a hand to help.

Was'nt the excuse at the time that 'they suffered from low self esteem because they couldn't get into Uni'. ?.

I was out by Rangsit one time when two lots set about each other ; Brought back fond memories of the Rangers / Celtic games of my youth. NOT.

As leftcross said ''let them have their fun, just like we all did when we were younger.''

My, how we laughed ...

(It was one Saturday afternoon at the dog kennel that put me off football for quite a while ...)

It was being pursued up a deserted Arbroath High St one Saturday morning by what seemed like every Rangers supporter on the planet baying for my blood.

(And here was me wandering around thinking, "Hmmmmm seems quiet today. I wonder where everybody is?".)

Good job we had lots of cross country running at school - it stood me in good stead.

Interesting parallel here : Where I used to live Lao Khao was 5B a glass.

Foul stuff - tried it once and near threw up.

We had a German stayed nearby, he was a mere 3 years over on his visa.

He regularly got stuck into the stuff first thing in the morning.

Does it induce hallucinations?. This guy used to see things.

One day he disppeared. Last heard of back in Germany.

yes saeb, i wonder how long it will take for thai football hooligan gangs to take off. they could travel about on buses smashing up som tam stalls in opposition towns

That sort of happened a couple of years ago when there were big onrunning gang battles between various colleges and universities mainly in BKK but also in other locations across the country.

Yes, the vocational school students went on a bit of a rampage for a few years didn't they.

A fourteen year old was gang raped on a bus in broad daylight and nobody lifted a hand to help.

Was'nt the excuse at the time that 'they suffered from low self esteem because they couldn't get into Uni'. ?.

I was out by Rangsit one time when two lots set about each other ; Brought back fond memories of the Rangers / Celtic games of my youth. NOT.

Buriram Bovver Boys.........Naiyok Nutters.........Petchabun Posse.....

We'd need a venue in Pattaya though as the D*** B******s isn't big enough.

You'd be o.k. with a Chinaman - just don't start with Nid from the Biergarden, she's mean!.

Use language like that, and you may discover that us 'Chinamen' are willing to make you suffer more than you think.

Do you call black people niggers?

Do you call Mexicans Wetbacks and Spics?

Oops, sorry no offence meant: What am I supposed to say, "Chinese male"?.

"Male of Chinese ethnic origin"?.

The original poster said it was a Chinese person - I would assume that person to be male.

Having shared houses with Chinese ladies they did not appear to get into fights.

No I don't call black folks niggers - If I don't know where they come from there are far politer terms.

And Mexicans is Mexicans.

Next time you see someone using the term 'Jock' on this forum you will no doubt jump to the defence of the Scots around the world?.

Alas, we have better things to do than take offence over a derogatory term - it only shows the ignorance of the person using it.

Could you also ask a few hundred million ethnic Chinese folks not to refer to us as gweilo ot laowai?.

My thanks in advance.....................

I nearly got into a fight with a bloke in where i live. I think the guy, chinese, was on holiday. (Is!)

Lets say he beat me up, and i was so annoyed that i decided to involve the police. The only witnesses would have been his friends. And perhaps no visible marks would have been on me.

Eh?. 'Nearly got into a fight?. Surely there is no answer to that. I mean, is a fight, hand bags at twenty paces with lots of screaming and threats, pulled hair and scratches, or going at it with bar stools and broken bottles?.

You'd be o.k. with a Chinaman - just don't start with Nid from the Biergarden, she's mean!.

All a matter of degree and the MIB really don't care if farangs tear each other up unless there is death involved.

all i can remember about Quadrophenia is Phil Daniels screaming 'Oi Postman you killed my bike!!!!' after an accident near the end of the film

yes saeb, i wonder how long it will take for thai football hooligan gangs to take off. they could travel about on buses smashing up som tam stalls in opposition towns

i dont see the big deal about motorcycle gangs. just let the kids have their fun as they make the transition to adulthood

Thai football hooligans heh -heh : The Mudkahan Inter City Crew - Songkla Soccer Casuals.......

Hat Yai Head Hunters.....the mind boggles!.

But no scrapping in the afternoon - everyone gone sleepy byes.

Gladitorial bouts with the customers of certain Pattaya pubs would be an interesting cultural slant.

With so much "in fighting" it's difficult to know who to believe, but operational by July06 is an impossibility.

Two hunded shops to be fitted out and stocked. One hundred and thirty plus airline facilities to be built and tested, including linking of computers to the central AIM system.

The contractors have not yet handed over the project to the AOT, and untill such time, the airlines will be unable to gain access to the terminal buildings to set up their facilities.

Then there's the small matter of certification from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) coupled with an IATA inspection.

July 07 Although Dec 5th is still a favourite.

Spot on Maejo - what about the ICAO?. I note a distinct lack of speech on this from those involved.

We are looking at three fairly busy airports operating heavy traffic in a fairly small geographical area and in certain seasons subject to specific weather conditions which can and do intefere with aircraft operations. (Don Muang, U-Tapao, and the nearly but not quite yet).

Stick in the military traffic from Don Muang, U-Tapao and the various other government aviation units scattered around the immediate area - I think the ICAO will need a fairly exhaustive set of anti conflict trials for starters.

The first tenet of good journalism:

If it bleeds, it leads, ...

But anyway, a screw fell out of my 100b knock-off sunglasses,

A different guy in another vendor stall put another one in for free,

Didn't have the 10b for the public pisser but the old lady let me go anyway,

Only bought one Singha in a four hour period in one of the beach parasol chairs (I fell a sleep),

The operator apparently didn't mind and still smiled when I left,

There, many acts of random niceness,

I have to get back to the Hot Chick thread,

This is true - almost unbelievable. It happened in Pattaya. Once upon a time I gave a Baht bus clippie (drivers wife?. Mai noi?. Daughter?), 10 Baht for me and the missus.

Driver did not go mental, swear, threaten me with an iron bar, or drive over the wife's foot.

Gosh, I was, I was, I wuz humbled.

There cant be too many new, black, 7 series beamers with those alloys and un-tinted windows in pattaya..

Especially with that number plate 6699 These are normally "bought" plates for those that want a little bit of personalisation.

I can't make out where it is registered though....

Hang on a mo' - was there not a recent high profile politician running the show who was big into 9's, 6's and mulitples thereof?.

I think we should be told. Maybe the bags contained tax returns?.

If these poor beasties are here illegally (and no doubt kept in horrendous conditions as the average zoo in Thailand seems to be).........then does it not say in the immigration act something about aliens being employed and the employer being subject to a fine or imprisonment?.

If they were imported to work or perform without work permits then is there a test case there for some enterprising young lawyer?.

For a buddhist country the treatment of animals in Thailand has always left me confused.

Sure, I like to eat meat - but cruelty for entertainment purposes?.

Anyone remember that demented elephant that ran down Petchburi Road in 1997 and was duly machine gunned into a klong?. I saw that - horrible. Poor thing.

With the Baht so high it might be a good time to get money out,

you can always bring it back when the Baht falls again, as I feel

sure it will.

Shades of the Chavalit government.........one of the great unreported (in Thailand) scandals.

The sheer amount of Baht that left the country before the 'all of a sudden'..'instant decision' to float the currency.

Created a lot of VERY rich people in the inner circle that did. And then they all blamed Soros.

Like one person who speculates in money markets brought down a whole economy.

Right ho- I do believe that Alice in Wonderland is a true story.

Fact of the matter is that a lot of people involved in supply to the Government in Thailand have signed orders to supply goods bought overseas. They have paid for these goods from their own company funds, have delivered the goods and are not now being paid for these orders.

This in itself creates insecurity within the workforce as they are not going to be paid by the companies that employ them, and banks are going to have loaned funds to companies to buy which are not going to paid back.

In itself, companies which have credit accounts with foreign suppliers are not going to be able to pay.

This will further increase the distrust that many, many specialist companies have with dealing in any form of government supply within Thailand.

It is such a pity - but it is just the same old wheel. The politicians spout off about 'Thai Rak Thai', 'We are doing this for the country'........'We love Thailand'.....'The country must stand as one'........ whilst lining their own nest at the expense of the population.

What happens when there is a sufficiently educated population that begins to ask why?, instead of when?.

someone better tell her to watch Quadraphenia before she makes a complete fool of herself

WELL SAID!

Didn't the hero in Quadrophenia drive his scooter over a cliff at the end?.

And of course all the scooter boys were necking lots of speed as well.

Lemmings the lot of them..........

it was one of the mis guided misunderstood dissapointed followers of his hero [ sting ] that nicked the super scooter and drove it over the cliff.

this is rellevant to motor cycle gangs in los i think, because they are getting into the western way of thinking at a young age, [ life owes me a living and its just not fair ] so they rebel, getting attention and when they get away with certain things they then push the barriers further and further.

and don't they just love it when somebody say's give them a chance it's not thier fault

i like to see kids enjoy themselves but with these gangs they seem to enjoy themselves by upsetting and intimidating others

Yes, that's correct, it was Gordon Summerfield's AKA Sting's scooter that got nicked and over the cliff. Aerodynamic point:- With all those mirrors sticking out creating drag one wonders how fast it went?. (Were scooters not originally marketed as a ladies motorcycle?).

And was it a 'tantric' scooter?.

Groups of young lads will always form groups - be it mods, rockers, hells angels, skinheads, punks - I don't believe that culture has anything to do much about it ; more of a hormonal thing I think and a 'wanting to belong' - part of the tribal indentity thing.

Imagine Thai punk rockers:- Now that would be one for the guide books!!!

someone better tell her to watch Quadraphenia before she makes a complete fool of herself

WELL SAID!

Didn't the hero in Quadrophenia drive his scooter over a cliff at the end?.

And of course all the scooter boys were necking lots of speed as well.

Lemmings the lot of them..........

Thailand not broke, says acting Prime Minister Chidchai

BANGKOK: -- Acting Prime Minister Pol. Gen. Chidchai Vanasatidya dismissed allegations that the Thai government had gone broke and confirmed that state revenues had been collected up to the targeted amounts.

Gen. Chidchai explained that some budgets may remain untapped by varied government agencies due to technical snags involving the budding use of the new Government Fiscal Management Information System (GFMIS).

He said the baht had strengthened due to inflows of foreign currencies used in profit-speculating and take-over bids among business circles.

Though export earnings might be adversely affected as a result of the rising Thai currency, that would only happen on a short-term basis, the acting Premier said.

Meanwhile, the Government's mega-projects will be shelved indefinitely, until the next Government has been formed, Gen Chidchai said.

As chair of Tuesday's cabinet meeting, Gen. Chidchai reported on the problem of rising oil prices. The Finance and Energy ministries, as well as PTT Plc, he said, will adopt measures to help farmers and others relying on oil-consuming transport systems and to promote energy-saving measures as well alternative energy sources in place of petrol.

--TNA 2006-04-18

Who's he talking to then?. According to the Finance Ministry 3 weeks ago - the reserves were sufficiently low that suppliers to government contracts were not being paid.

The recent incidence of government owned aircraft crashing due to maintenance not being carried out, or on time, replacement parts not being procured or delivered on time, kinda shows that there isn't enough money to keep what they have flying.

(Look at the totals of aircraft available on paper as opposed to aircraft actually serviceable).

It is always said after an air accident in Thailand that the aircraft are old : This means diddly squat if the things are maintained in accordance with the approved maintenance schedules.

And if there ain't no money for bits for the things............

Hi Skip,

Sorry about your situation . It's awful when they lose it...........

If you move - do not tell anyone where you are going. Not even your mates as a pound to a penny

she'll threaten to dub them in for dope or something unless they say where you are.

I've seen it happen.

Pity that the police were not more helpful. In my case I was shacked up with a lunatic for a while until the heavies from a casino started turning up wanting gambling debts paid.

I gave her the option of cards or me. She chose cards so I threw her out.

She went ballistic. Totally nuts.

For a week.

We ended up in Lumpini cop shop (very friendly and efficient) who gave her an option.

If they saw her in Lumpini police area again it was the monkey house.

She ranted and wailed about drugs, my visa being over for a couple of days, I was a fugitive from the FBI......yack...yack...yack.

They locked her up for a few days and that was the last I ever heard from her. Hands up to Lumpini MIB.

They did suggest that I change my address though.....and not tell anyone.

Hope it works out for you - just stay cool and away from the Mekhong bottle.

Pattaya does seem to have a disproportionate amount of jumpers. In BKK they seem to prefer the noose option........very tragic for all concerned.

A plastic bag comes a close second

It always used to confuse me how a person could tie their hands behind their back then place a poly bag over their head then tye wrap it sealed : Consistent verdict was always 'suicide'.

Weird.......

I believe that it has 12 floors

The hotel staff took the cops to the chap's room on the 4th floor.

But it could have been the 2nd, 12th or 20th.

In order to promulgate a conspiracy theory could someone pop round please and see which floor room 2045 is actually on?.

Pattaya does seem to have a disproportionate amount of jumpers. In BKK they seem to prefer the noose option........very tragic for all concerned.

We don't have literal girls in cars in our brains - we use substitute images for them, and to think about meaning

Actually - if anyone has tried getting their leg over in a Ford Escort 1100 with a 19 year old student Physicist in late November in Scotland after doing an 18 hour day doing casevac on N.Sea offshore after 6 pints and kanckered.............Forget it.

Much more pleasant as you get older. No metaphors or analogies.

Bed is better.

No cops.

No freezing.

And no more Escort 1100's. (Praise be!).

I have no substitute image for these events - they happened, but then I was a horny young chap making available to what was offered.

Now?. I am still alive. Great life isn't it!.

Bell 212 - Queen of the skies.

Wow - how do I respond to that? Philosophy is fiction? Logic is fiction? Math is fiction? Analogy and inference is fiction? Yes, it is an idea. It is an example of logical types. The example of one thing can relate to a separate thing, as in metaphor and analogy. Fiction or not is irrelevent - it helps to illustrate and explain by analogy. There is no way to think that is not done with ideas, and ideas are always not concrete - they always use one thing to represent another. We don't have literal girls in cars in our brains - we use substitute images for them, and to think about meaning, we likewise need substitute images of other similar things - classes of things, related things. Thinking is always about similarities and comparisons. Don't you see the similarity? What difference if it is fiction? Is it just or not to blow up a contractor who is knowingly working for an unjust corporation? The idea is neither fiction nor not fiction - it is abstract.

Yes, protesting took guts, but then he can't complain about getting run over by the system. He wanted to make a big statement -fine. If he wanted to simply not serve again, he would have chosen a different course of action. He got what he surely must have known he would get - run over.

Yup - easy answers to your comments:

1. Of course philosophy is fiction. It is purely an idea of a concept purported by an individual as truth but with no fact or basis to prove the theorem.

I.E., the world is flat. god is real.

2. "As in metaphor and analogy". Sorry guv'nor, it is 'either, or'. To use a metaphor in order to prove an analogy shows a lack of being able to present a conscise argument in the language of your choice.

A basis of the written word is that we can explain a feeling, emotion or event without recourse to analogy and whilst metaphor can be useful to help explain the useage of unlearned language,

(metaphor in Shakespeare studies anyone?), we should not require require to use a ficticious and fantastical example to try to prove a point.

3. How do you work out that I said that logic is fiction or maths is fiction?.

I have never said any such thing - and thus you are entering into a discussion facts that are in actual fact unsaid and untrue. They were never said by me and to that extent destroy your argument.

I stick with what is available and said. You choose to put words into others mouths.

4. What's with the literal girls in cars?. Heh-heh- I got over that when I got my first apartment..

[Some are aware that in the Neuremberg trials of Nazi war criminals, the justices concluded that individuals posess both an innate moral authority and responsibility to act justly, irrespective of the state.

Today, an RAF Doctor of Medicine was found guilty at court marshal because he refused to do a third tour of Iraq.

He is now imprisoned for 8 months in a military jail.

If we take the statement by the poster as quoted, "innate moral authority and responsibility to act justly".

Then where does that leave a serving military person?. At risk from the law on one side for not having the rational to decide what they consider to be wrong, and at risk if they act upon their belief that what they are doing is wrong.

CATCH-22.

I have a solution for state imposed Catch 22s. Become a self employed expat.

Consider the original Star Wars movie. What of all the subcontractors working on the Death Star? Did they deserve to get all blowed up? What if you re-shingle a known mafiosa's house, and get wasted in a drive by? Were you innocent? The RAF doctor orignally threw away his rights to be a rightous man - he decided to be paid to be an automaton. Allright - that's hard to extricate from. If he seriously wanted to extricate from that, he should have left the system with less trace.

Ooo-err - what has a Star Wars movie got to do with rationality?.

It is fiction - it is an idea.

Do you believe in Alice in Wonderland?. Is that reality?.

The fact that a serving officer in the RAF who holds the took a decision to protest against what he perceived to be an illegal occupation of a soveriegn state took some guts.

He will be removed from any list, be discharged with dishonour and lose any gratuity and pension rights due to him.

However, I stand by the situation, (Scots may appreciate this), "Deil tak the hindmost".

[

I have a solution for state imposed Catch 22s. Become a self employed expat.

I am, I am, I am, I am. Great isn't it?. Much better than working for a living!.

[If you see what quotes from the previous poster my statements followed, you may notice counter arguments to statements. I was arguing against the assertion that the State is the final aribiter and authority for "justice". The Neurenburg trial was an example of the US and worlds highest court deciding publicly that the State can never be the highest moral authority. Individuals, as declared by the State, must at times act in violation of the laws of the State, in order to act legally.

Actually - it was Churchill, Stalin and De Gaule who were the advocates of hanging as many Germans (and supporters) as was possible at Nurenberg.

The U.S. were happy for a token' demonstration - given they had Werner Von Braun and other specialists they were of the opinion that there was something to be had.

Churchill and Stalin had a recorded conversation where they discussed how many to hang.

"Shall we have the white wine my dear or the red?".

Pierrpoint personally hanged 200 Germans - 4 hangmen working overtime just on the Brit side.

What about the Russian figures?.

The winners decide and justice comes a poor second.

[Some are aware that in the Neuremberg trials of Nazi war criminals, the justices concluded that individuals posess both an innate moral authority and responsibility to act justly, irrespective of the state.

Today, an RAF Doctor of Medicine was found guilty at court marshal because he refused to do a third tour of Iraq.

He is now imprisoned for 8 months in a military jail.

If we take the statement by the poster as quoted, "innate moral authority and responsibility to act justly".

Then where does that leave a serving military person?. At risk from the law on one side for not having the rational to decide what they consider to be wrong, and at risk if they act upon their belief that what they are doing is wrong.

CATCH-22.