tropiccapricorn

Father of New Zealand victim advises against travel to Thailand

Wellington - The father of a young New Zealand woman who died from toxic chemical poisoning in a Thailand hotel welcomed Tuesday moves to tighten rules on spraying pesticides in tourist areas but said he would not advise others to travel there.

"Unless you are an intrepid traveller seeking a bit of adventure steer clear of the whole place altogether," Richard Carter, of Auckland, told Radio New Zealand. "I won't be going there.

I am bored with this man's bleatings against the country, part of his grief I suppose, but his website Thai Tragedies really is pathetic.

Accept the deaths were tragic; as are all deaths, road accidents etc that impact upon families/friends; his bitter 'steer clear of the whole place altogether' -won't impact on the millions of tourists each year.

and above all, it was not your daughter

when one gets the idea that facts are hidden, distraction from evidence to probably protect some local matador

inclusive a hotel which might be sued (if that is at all possible in LOS)

then the evidence will remain wishy washy, after all it is sill TRT (thai ruk thai)

seems ok to me, westrern economires in a very bad way, exchange rate poor ans other destinations offering better value for the money. have not noticed to many bars closing, they are usually reopened straight away.

must admit i have been ex pat for 10 years but like many others thinking of relocating else where in Asia where i feel my money would be better appreciated, and not have all the hassle of visa's and farang cannot do this and cannot do that. they killed the goose that laid the golden egg

NaRak,, being an expat here for 23++ years I can only say, your money is appreciated but you don't have any, that's the way I see you. And I'm going to be sick of all "farangs" like you who moan about .. killing the goose that laid the golden egg... grow up man and do your thing and don't complain, because first of all, this is Thailand meaning Thai peoples country and not yours, they make their own rules and not rules you are looking for, it's just ridiculous what 90% of you guys are complaining about instead making up their own life here...

Of course we know all this which does not mean that some rules and regulations can be annoying

like e.g. censorship of the internet or this 90 day rule. I think there is a widespread feeling of Thais

do as we like or get lost which is easy to say for them even if it means lighting your bedroom brighter

than the sun with advertising light, having a shootrange just around the corner or whatever because

if you have a suggestion for alternative destination say it.

Actually there is none. That LOS is in the tourist industry dating back to the Vietnam war

gives it a lead over any other country considering factors like farang-compatibility, climate and a mad

running realestate sector. And of course most of us loathe the thought of going back to the country

of origin taking into acount a mentality we discover when looking in the mirror or of course the climate

50 billion dollars for around 650km of line, three or four stations, rolling stock.

Dual track line at a million a kilometre is 1.25 billion (approx)

Four stations at 20 million each (generous)

Eight trains (maximum) at 800 million each (Siemens prices)

Less than eight billion.

Who gets the rest?

Loan will be paid back by the fare structure, I assume. Over (say) 25 years.

Eight to ten journeys each way, each day, with 300 pax average.

5-6,000 pax per day (if they're lucky)

25 x 365 x 5,000 = 45,625,000 pax trips (one-way)

To pay back 50 billion (no interest calculated) each pax must pay more than US $ 1,000 per one-way journey.

And do you think that every day for the next 25 years more than 5,000 people will want to make that journey? Every day?

Typical Thailand - nobody has checked the figures. All pie-in-the-sky idiot thinking.

That's the problem. In Japan and Europe, where these fast trains run, they connect big cities with a very large

population which also can afford to buy the rather expensive tickets necessary to maintain and run such a TGV

in a save way. I don't think Thailand has got that and since the mantality here seems such that anybody

who can afford it, buys a car, so first priority will be the road.

The present railway in Thailand is good enough to throw away for a new one with normal trackgauge but

when one hears the amounts involved, I suppose it will never happen.

By the way I know of two derails, one in France where the train went off the rails at a very high speed,

stayed intact and after a long distance came to a stop without fatalities.

A IC in Germany had the same problem, but due to a different construction the carriages turned sidewards

and unfortenately, a concrete pillat got in their way resulting in many deaths.

Shouldn't this effectively end all the Victor Bout threads? The guy was caught and arrested (arrested by Thai police). The guy's extradition was approved. A second set of charges that would have slowed extradition down from Thailand were dropped. The guy's lawyers tried to get charges reinstated to slow down extradition. They weren't reinstated and he was extradited in accordance with Thai law and the extradition treaty that Thailand has with the US.

Likely there will be USA bashing threads bringing this up for sometime.

Just as yet another excuse to bash USA.

why do u think the world needs an excuse to bash the US?

There are plenty of good reasons.....i just remember the weapons of mass destruction ...lol

In the USA he will probably be convicted on assumption as happened before like Viet Nam, Iraq

Guantanamo inmates and many more.

Of course in those good old times, a child was born to parents with certain genetics manifested in language

and nationality. But now where millions of people migrate to countries of which they know neither language

nor religion for economic reasons and after years might aquire a passport. What are they now?

They never change their skin. Some privileged people can of course buy passports like cauliflower.

So in Bout's case, I recon he should be sent back to the country on which passport he entered LOS.

Which basically comes down to "let him go whereever he wants", correct?

Not really. Suppose he would have the entry stamp on an american passport guess where he would end up.

He needs to go to the U.S. for a good info squeeze! End of story! Then send him to Gen Pop in any lock up to see how he does!

Why the hel_l don't they just send him back to the country of which he is a passport holder.!!

Which one?

Of course in those good old times, a child was born to parents with certain genetics manifested in language

and nationality. But now where millions of people migrate to countries of which they know neither language

nor religion for economic reasons and after years might aquire a passport. What are they now?

They never change their skin. Some privileged people can of course buy passports like cauliflower.

So in Bout's case, I recon he should be sent back to the country on which passport he entered LOS.

I have never had the inclination to rent a jet ski and truth be said the guys who tout the services look pretty dodgy.

But if they did try it on me I would opt for going to the Police Station.

How much is a jet ski worth anyway?

I can't believe the amounts they are demanding for a bit of superficial damage.

there were two indian men being scammed yesterday and refusing to accept any damage, the jet ski operators made the two men sit back on the ski's while they were on the beach and put their children behind them and then took photo's to intimidate them more.

It was very obvious the indian men were not happy getting photos taken i have seen them do this a few times now as a scare tactic.

the jet skis are worth 300 thousand baht i beleive

I think there are two things Thais have found out during those many years of blooming tourism,

first how rather helpless those foreigners are while in the country and

second how rather rich they are by Thai standards.

This put together with this Thai ruk Thai thing makes it very hard for a Thai to to take anything

away from another Thai rightly or wrongly when the victim happens to be nonThai.

A section of the road to Jomtien is not used. Still wonder why.

Anyway, the competition game of the Bath busses from South road th Jomtien is suspended.

The bus drivers fill the busses with "customers" cramping them together like cattle in a sometimes

rather rude tone. And before the vehicle is not loaded with between 12 and 15 people, they

wont't go. I wonder if this would be the behavour and mentality behind the smiles if some situation

would arise. Milking the cattle. A bit scary but of course just a thought.

He needs to go to the U.S. for a good info squeeze! End of story! Then send him to Gen Pop in any lock up to see how he does!

Why the hel_l don't they just send him back to the country of which he is a passport holder.!!

I think your over reacting, its easy, dont use them and tell everyone you meet what happens then maybe the word will spread.

I suppose anybody having lived here for some time and knowing what is going on wouldn't dare touch any of them

things. But those new arrivels in holyday mood could get it.

It reminds me of that criminal scam at the airport, it being reported to the Thai authorities didn't

do anything. Only when BBC reported it around the globe, did the PM do the jump and now one hopes that will be

setteled for ever.

Actually, I think the IDEA of hiring humans to enforce crossing points (with the power to ticket drivers ideally) is a very good idea. The labor costs are still cheap here so it would both create employment and more safety. The new electronic system is not working and will likely lead to deaths of people trusting that system. Thai drivers need a more active enforcement of this to change the culture about pedestrian rights (currently pedestrians have no rights). I said the idea may be good, but of course the methods they use would need to be worked on.

I agree. Perhaps proper crossing guards, reflective vests, stop sight, whistles (ugh), reflective hat, and have a red light.

Having said all that, it will still probably fail.

The police have a gold mind on their hands if they want to start issuing tickets for running the lights.

Or, when the driver gets the red light, a moat infested with corcos opening up across the road.

They put up a whole lot of new pedestrian crossings with lights in Chiangmai a few years back. Now most of them have been removed because motorists took no notice of them. In Pattaya it will be the same. But influential person made some money putting them up and that was the real point.

As we probably all know, a law is only as valuable as it can be enforced.

In Europe, a motorist ignoring a red light has a photo been taken which results in a fine.

When in Thailand this is not done, then motorists don't care and this will result in a dangerous situation

mainly for tourists, as locals would't dare counting on their right to pass.

At least if the light for the pedestrians stays red it will cut down on the death toll the working lights might cause.

Actually the pedestrian lights do turn green and the lights for motorists go red.

A Thai with a motor under his ass won't be impressed at all and goes on full speed.

So if a european person crossing, being used to have the right of way gets run over

possibility one full speed ahead or the explanation that this damm person walked

into the car. Probably always a looser when caught in a Thai rak Thai business.

Scary place.

It is nothing to do with pollution. The sea is still much cleaner then your chips from the sealed pack. It is so called Seabather's eruption based on individual hypersensitivity to the tiny (and so invisible) young jellyfish. Different mechanism and chemicals involved comparing to stinging by an adult jellyfish. Basically it is allergic reaction and it can be confused for allergy to food or whatever.

Thanks a lot... although it's been sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong...

the wife, kids and I often used to go to jomtiem and have a walk along the beach and allow the kids time for a paddle and I agree it could be the small jellyfish also I think the saliva like trail that some jellyfish leave can cause irritation too, therefore you may not see the jellyfish but the saliva like stuff could be floating around in the water, I think the kids have felt more skin irritations recently than before, and I think it seems to be early in the morning or late afternoon that is the worst time, but I do also think there is much more pollutant in the water at Jomtiem now than ever I have noticed before.

When living in Jomtien, it's easy to see how an area of brown slick builds along the beach when all those

seweragepipes spew their brown untreated filth out into the water. This happens on a big stretch in either direction.

Condos were built like mad for years now but it seems no adjustment of infrastructure was ever done.

Actually every developer should be required to contribute per condo, so seweragetreatment would keep

the color of the beachwater like it is 100 m further out.

Seweragetreatment not mercedes would do the trick. I have read in a europen paper about the pollution

of Jomtien beaches. Tourist dissuasion.

...paid 3800 bath...

Based on the fee, this must have been a multiple-entry re-entry permit.

Yes keeps me from forgetting again.

You're right, they had stopped to service re-entry at the airport, if you can find immigration officer, you should you it today or you may change your flight.

I forgot to buy a re-entry visa which I only remebered while sitting in a restaurant waiting for my flight

to penang. So I panicked went back to pasport control and sung my sad song after which a police woman

stationed there started to get busy with stamps and what have you.

Anyway after about 10 min and having paid 3800 bath I had it, ran all the way back and boarded on last call.

I have been living in Jomtien for some time and I see this strech of brown water along the beach

every day. Why the hel_l do they build condos, condos, condos all the time never adjusting the

infrastructure. Of course that wouldn't cash like condos but recently I read in a european

newspaper a warning about murky beaches in LOS. Maybe when that sinks in, it would generate

some negative cash when they find cleaner beaches wherever.

^ off course we are guests here, but we are paying guests and should be treated with some consideration, should we not?

One of the many problems with noise here is that people have chosen quiet areas in the past, only to have "noise" move in on them at a later date, due to lack of zoning etc. This, along with many other things make people think twice about committing to Pattaya for the long term, myself included.

I get a laugh when I go by the beer bars at the corner of Soi 2 and 2nd Rd., each one has a live band trying to blast the crap they play louder then one next door, are the customers there really having conversations or reading lips, which must be difficult because they are all too sauced to do either

I used to sit in a bar like that sometimes. After a rather short time I would leave,

feeling sorry for the employees (girls) who had to stay there to the bitter end.

Of course we are though rather well paying guests here and therefore I would think deserved some consideration.

But I think Thais are very reluctant to honour a complaint by a farang which would have consequences for an other Thai. And this is a problem which most people are not aware of until being here

and probably have bought some noisy place.

On top of all that, most farangs coming here are at an advanced age, and I know from experience,

noise tolerance decreases with age.

I don't like that crap with earplugs. Very funny to jet half around the globe to get yourself boozed, pluged or cemented in just to get a night's sleep. An advantage LOS is having probably for a long time to come is the

lack of any alternativ place.

I live near a noisy building site, has been so for months and I see that most of the noise generated

could be reduced considerably, but the who the hel_l cares.

People at the source of the noise are concerned rather with deadlines and money and the people in sorrounding

condos have bought and can't do a dam_n thing about it.And I suppose the laws if any would be a matter of money.

Facit we havn't found paradise yet.

Baht buses are also, shall we say, vulnerable targets. I got hit bad in one last year after 10 PM and it was a white paste bath as well. What a fashion statement for the evening. Its ridiculous that people are still doing this that late at night. It ought to be legal to retaliate with "non-violent" Gandhi style weapons (spears, clubs, Molotov cocktails, grenades, etc.) such as the red shirt use.

You might be right there. I don't get ANYTHING out of this funny game. My complaint is why so long.

Why not have them drown one another in one day and get it over and done with.

Of course VT7 is here to stay. That decision was made years ago when the building injunction was lifted.

Of course the distance to build higher than 14 m is meant to be 200m from msl inward,

a law or whatever having been in place for some three decades. The way JCC. Was built.

But when a project promises such a golden future why not employ an expert witness

to clarify the situation accordingly. Now I suppose to get a final decision from a court

might require some more time like ten or so years because would they decide it to

be legal what a precedent for all future cases. And to declare it illegal suddenly what then.

Knock it down to 14m ? You must be joking. So I suppose, the case will keep on

hanging and hanging maybe until doomsday.

I don’t think anybody abused the local legal system because a judge should be required

to dismiss a case unless it has legal grounds.

Of course it would easily be possible that those 200m have been violated before but

probably never faced such decisive and fierce opposition.

If you find the guy and kick the crap out of him the implications would be he goes to hospital, if he doesnt know you and their are no witnesses to identify you. It doesnt help the next kiddy he approaches, but it will be a release for your fury.

What a strange thing. All the older males come to Pattaya because they can approach

anything from women to girls or males without risking to much complications,

very much to the opposite as in their countries of origin.

Now this so called pervert did this to a girl apparently of underage.

Whether he realized this or not, I don’t know. It appears, he respected her reaction and left off. Now everybody if foaming and terribly morally disgusted, ready to take him to pieces.

Let justice prevail by escalation. Your much younger girlies will surely support.

Nothing physical happened at all and now this ugly terrible aggression creeps up

just if it had been waiting for any reason to do so. Kind of western alliance.

Let it be clear. Nobody should touch any underage unpunished. But you are no judge.

So, if anybody got kicked out of this country for good as a result of such seemingly

widely accepted action, that would be justice too.

Earlier this year I checked in for a flight to Malaysia. When they

X-rayed my baggage, they discovered a very small knife in my toilet bag about

which I had completely forgotten. Can not go on plane like that

OK, I said keep it here in a office, I collect it on the way back. Can not.

OK, give it to staff-security, I collect it at destination. Can not.

And since they managed to place ca. 1 mile of shops between baggage check in and X-ray, there is no way of going back to check in the baggage like I did years ago in an other airport.

So, by extortion, either throw the item away or do not fly.

After getting quite pi@#ed off I told them to cancel the flight.

I suppose this is called customer service around here. It makes flying an utter joy

one tries to avoid at all costs whenever possible.

I think we took a bus to Chanthaburi leaving from near the great terminal where the buses

leave for BKK. It’s on the other side of that road a little further down to Pattaya.

They are small busses fare 200B. Our departure was 8.00 a.m.We got there on motor-bike

taxi from that great roundabout in north Pattaya.

Now foundations are being dug for another highrise nextdoor which means an outrageous expanse of VTs in the area. ...

From the VT sales office; the construction is for a resort similar to the Avalon which will be a low-rise at the front (beach) rising to 7-8 floors in the back. The pile driving construction should be minimal when compared to VT7. However, another VT highrise beside VT5D someday should surprise nobody.

Wow that's a nice view...what did folks in JCC pay for these...are there any more for sale?

Actually the pile noise is not minimal.

Again somebody told me that apparently VT is having problems selling VT5C and VT7 on the in between side because potential buyers are scared of a further high-rise between them. Therefore that low rise must come up rather fast, which leaves me wondering if, when sales have progressed the whole thing could be caterpillared away to make room for that ominous high-rise. In case of course potential customers would still be queuing up for it.

"Did I hear that correctly that VT7 is now sewing JCC for 500 m Bath?"

Okay, I'll bite. Starting or spreading rumours?.... or can you substantiate or name source of what's implied.

Honestly I don’t know who can sue who or not in this case. I was just reiterating a

remark I got from somebody I supposed should know.

"Did I hear that correctly that VT7 is now sewing JCC for 500 m Bath?"

Okay, I'll bite. Starting or spreading rumours?.... or can you substantiate or name source of what's implied.

I hope they have a sewing machine -- a waterproof one would be good if you want to take it into the bath.

Sorry indeed. You are ever so wright of course.

The word I should have been using is suit like lawsuit, countersuit, of-the-peg-suit,

protection suit, alimony suit, swimsuit, evening suit, gray suit, divorce suit, double breasted

suit, and so on and so on and truly the sewing I’d prefer to delegate to some sweety around.