ColPyat

The Nation does have an open and well known politcal stance which it should be praised on allowing to be openly seen. Most Thai newspapers are controlled by groups that equally have politcal aims but they are unwilling to publically let these be known. The standard of journalism in Thailand is no worse than in many western countries whre stories are exaggerated, twisted etc. The run up to the Iraq war was an expose of journalism far worse than anything seen in Thailand. To get a true sense of what is happening one needs to read across the spectrum and not trust news or academic sources totally imho and also trust what you see,hear and analyse yourself while being aware of obnes own biases.

However, in this case I think the Nations poor copy editing is all that is at play. The numbers at rallies are really irrelevent. The number of voters the canvassers are now busy lining up are what counts. It would probably do the country mor egood if the news media sent their reporters out around the country to investigate the stories of mass MP buying and vote buying. This may cost the rags a bit more and inconvenience reporters who would rather be doing the Bangkok party circuit after work and it may involve some danger but it is strange that what is known to happen is not even investigated. That is the sad indictment of Thai journalism although it hasnt yet plummetted to the depths of the New York Times et al with their puire propoganda in the run up to Iraq so maybe thee is yet hope in Thailand.

Sorry to disagree. I don't think there is any praise for open siding to any political faction in journalism, at least not without equal measure of giving the opposite side's views. Obviously that is somewhat idealistic and unrealistic. But clear borders of journalistic ethics are crossed when numbers, events and facts are consistently faked. If you remember many arguments here on the board - this is not the first time i have noticed this.

And yes, i do agree with you about the shameful media run up to the Gulf war - but not every country has taken part in this. Many European countries have not let such propaganda dominate their magazines and papers as it did in some other countries who were most adamant in pursuing the war.

I do not think that numbers of rallies are unimportant at all, especially as they are usually always brought up by each side to support their stand. And yes, i o believe that attempts of vote and MP buying have to be investigated, but regardless of party politics. What also has to be investigated is why certain parties may have offices all over the country, but choose not to communicate much to the people in those districts. Also space should be given to the academics who believe that "vote buying" does not have the effects they are made out to be. The patronage system should be investigated, impartially, and its effects.

I am not surprised that people want to argue over the numbers rather than the rather mundane content of the rally.

I do think it is very important to discuss the open siding of a major newspaper with political parties and movements, and even breeching factual reporting in the process by faking numbers.

Yes, Samak's speech was rather predictable and uneventful, and i do share your dislike of Samak. The more important discussion though is why he was chosen as head of PPP, against whom this is directed, and which top level political and social conflicts are initiated, or elevated here, and what that might mean for the future of Thailand's stability.

At that time, the numbers were likely very accurate and anyone sensible enough would have waited for a completed article to be written following the conclusion of the event before holding it up the following day to cite its alleged error, which, at the time of its publication, was not an error at all.

Where is the article now? Don't see it. The rally was finished by 20.30, well before deadline, and even well before that Sanam Luang was packed.

Don't see any correction, follow up article, neither in "breaking news".

And as you can see with Nation - it says:

"People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am."

Which is wrong as well - his speech was the last speech, and started at about 18.30 to 19.00 and lasted until about 20.15.

Simple conclusion - the wrong number the Nation mentioned stands for Nation readers. Partial and misleading journalism, in tradition of many such events by this rag.

Hi Colpyat we all know the Nation has trouble copy editing especialy in its breaking stories. It is a source of amusement though.

I don't think this has anything to do with copy editing, unfortunately. There is one consistency with the Nation - and that is under- and mis-reporting on anti coup demonstrations, including downplaying of numbers, and extreme exaggeration of numbers attending rallies of a political view their editors support.

The difference being that the Post article was written overnight after the rally had been concluded while the Nation article was written as breaking news during the afternoon of the rally prior to its conclusion and likely while more people were still arriving.

Due to the wording "Around 3,000 people have attended the rally," the nation news leaves the impression that this was all that have turned up, downplaying again extremely the number of a political party the do not agree with, and therefore further their tradition of partial and very subjective reporting and unreliability.

It serves nobody when such important events are misreported on. The Bangkok Post article though was spot on, both on the numbers, and the topic of the Samak speech, mostly going on (and on and on and on...) about Thaksin.

PPP salutes Thaksin legacy

The People Power Party (PPP) drew around 25,000 people for its first major rally in Bangkok at Sanam Luang yesterday where the party promised to continue the legacy of ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Oct2007_news12.php

At least the Bangkok Post got the numbers right, this time.

Compare the Nation on the same news:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30052278

PPP leader Samak starts his rally at Sanam Luang

People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has started his speech in a party's rally at Sanam Luang at 4.30am.

Around 3,000 people have attended the rally, "PPP meets people."

However, the number is lower than the party had expected due to the wet location after rain overnight.

it does make him sound worse than he is really imho ..

he's in a main stream school ..

my honest opinion on much of his speech is his 2 front teeth got knocked out when he was very small and 2nd set have not come thru comepletely so bit like a lisp on his talking ..

other than that he's (at risk of being flamed by the ladies on the board) a very typical child who has been mothered to much by my x-wife ..

so hates homework, does not pay attention in school and has to be told everything twice to get him to listen .. maybe mild ADHD even

school ed says its speech therapy he needs . on a regular basis

i think he might get by with just extra tuition and a good school dicipline .. english schools being as they are now they seem to just take the easy route and not work to much on the not so bright kids

Well, at first i thought that there might be a problem with his whole development. This could be a big problem in Thailand. If you have enough money, than you will be able to afford much better care in Thailand than in the UK, if you have limited funds, i would have suggested not to move here.

Can you afford a good private school here? If you can, then there are many available who also have special needs classes (they cost though!).

Here in Bangkok Vichayud Hospital has a very good child neurologist (i forgot his name though), he also works one or two days a week at Ramatibodhi Hospital for government rates. I would suggest a visit at this doctor, who can also refer him to a speech therapist, and suggest good schools.

And just one more thing, you posted that your son might have slight ADHD. Here in Thailand Ritalin is still regularly prescribed - my advice would be not under any circumstances to get him on that therapy (i have been on it).

So why was so much western aid going to a regime who murdered 20-30% of the entire country's population?

Because it was part of self serving geopolitics, costing the lives of millions.

And not an isolated incident. Read about the ouster of Sukarno in Indonesia, and the secret war in Tibet.

I live on much less than 30K and i'm as happy as a pig in Sh1t

Actually, i just saw another post of yours, in another thread:

As for the rest of the world, i work in the oil industry in Saudi arabia and here we drill wells in feet, measure weight in pounds and calculate volumes using barrels or gallons. 21st century or not imerial measurements are not going anywhere!

What are you? A toilet cleaner from Pakistan?

Or is the oil industry now paying that low salaries?

I live on much less than 30K and i'm as happy as a pig in Sh1t

So was i when i was just 24.

Life is very different though when you are above 30, have a family to take care of, and still have to make do with 30K a month and no savings.

Correct on the first two - but Minor's majority shareholder is an American named Bill Heinecke, who also owns the Royal Gardens in Bangkok and Pattaya and a few other things besides.

Yes, it's a public company and thus technically owned mostly by Thais, but they were not brought here by a Thai.

Who has Thai citicenship...

calculate your bmi here

That's one of these rubbish calculators - it doesn't take body build and bone structure into account.

Those are excuses used by the obese, who will not admit the fact!!

The bands in each range, do take these factors into account.

Has anyone got a version in real measurements??

Sorry, but that just doesn't work. Some do have bigger bones, and are naturally built wider than others. I have a friend who is a bit taller than me, has about the same size tummy, but weights nearly 20 KG less than me. I get lots more exercise than my friend, am much fitter, but i am simply lot wider than he is. If my friend would weight the same as me he would be obese, but i am not, and if i would weight the same as my friend - i would look like a concentration camp victim.

None of those BMI on the internet do take these factors into account. This is just amateur BS.

The only drawback is of course medical care which is free in Australia for pensioners,so if you get sick,you gotta come back here,apart from that,why wouldnt you be happy,your living on the same money in Australia of 1080 per month,things are more expensive,so i cant see why a senior citizen couldnt/wouldnt be happy.

Sometimes old people get really sick very fast, and cannot be transported.

Why would old people not be happy here?

-Maybe because they want to be close their children/relatives/friends they have left.

-Maybe because there are many old people who need more intellectual stimulation than bars/hookers/whoremongers can give them.

-Maybe because it's too hot and humid here.

-Maybe because they prefer to spend their old age in the environment they are used to, and don't want to adapt to a completely new culture.

-Maybe because they prefer to live in a place where they understand the language.

Farang wearing shirts of a particular color that shall not be named here.

Exceptions are only made for the ones who are forced by the employers to wear one. And i feel sorry for the ones forced by the wifes.

38,019 divided bt 34 baht to the USA dollar, is $1,118 per month to exist.

I am sure I could adjust my lifesyle and services which I subscribe to which would bring my monthly costs down.

Yes, and if you don't own your house you have to pay rent. And if you sometimes would like to travel to your home country than you are gonna save years for such a trip. And if you have kids and would like them to have a half decent education than you can count another 50 000 to 60 000 Baht a year at least per kid.

Of course it is manageable, millions of Thais manage on much less. But it's not exactly a great life, and if one does not have an inheritance to expect it will put one into a very difficult position one day.

It's easy to say one can live on 30 000 Baht when one has assets that can be liquidated. But in the long run, 30 000 Baht in a western country go a lot further, when calculating in that in most western countries there is a social security and health system which is not available here, and especially not for foreigners.

Go and speak with the embassies, and see how many desperately impoverished foreigners here are that had sudden emergencies, and no savings to take care of them - there are lots.

Many people here get reduced to some sort of manana life style - alright for the moment, have fun, flaunt their return to nature, but when problems come, it suddenly is not alright anymore, and the sky really is falling down then, and one becomes a burden to friends and embassy officials who have the thankless task then to help sorting out such nightmare scenarios.

And no, i am not a highly paid CEO - i have presently some money trouble, and my spending money is about that, maybe a bit more. I can do. But i do put away money every month for my kid's education and my taxes in addition to that spending money, and i have moderate assets in the west, and will get a moderate to OK inheritance one day of which i can life a simple but manageable lifestyle even in the west when if i make it to retirement age. If i wouldn't have that - things would be different.

I don't believe that an American would speak pidgeon English before hurling himself off a building. The witness if innocent would have been better off not mentioning this utterance.

Given the huge amount of deluded native English speakers who tend to prove that they are really in touch with Thai culture by speaking Tinglish and baby-English even to fellow westerners, his last statement would actually be only evidence of the poor fellow's state of mind.

calculate your bmi here

That's one of these rubbish calculators - it doesn't take body build and bone structure into account.

that most of the taxi and van que operators at thai airports and especially the bus terminals (as in this case) are run by or controlled by mobsters.

Usually the vans here are controlled by the Army mobsters. Very uncomfortable people.

I will be brief...... is anyone aware of whether or not the Thai Military runs any surplus auctions? A friend of mine owns an army disposal shop in Australia and asked me. I said I would find out for him. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

They have, but that is mostly for insiders. They regularly sell jeeps, etc.

You have to befriend the right people in the army to get access.

If you have a family 30K is doable, but it's not the nicest life.

Forget about a good school for your child, you are stuck with a government school.

Forget about trips home, or anywhere else in the region.

Forget about many toys for your kids, or you.

And heaven forbid - if there is a medical emergency you are truly screwed.

Forget about 1 year visas.

Forget about buying more than a cheap second hand motorcycle for transport.

Forget about western food above toast for breakfast, or cheap Thai spaghetti made at home.

Forget about a savings account.

Forget about ever owning more property than a tiny apartment in a run down block.

I did not realize that there were just 2 different types of people in thailand.

There is a lot of things you do not realize about Thailand. That's why you ludicrously defend of the Thai school system, romanticize poverty, and continuously insult people who do try to make the right choices for their children, so that these children can have a future in which they have they choice over what they will do.

Your proposed options here are, no problem - one can always be happy and poor, and no problem - simply teach kids how to fight and send them to a school where they get no education and have to life in a brutal environment.

OK, the kids I teach swimming are happy then. They finish school, they go to have ballet lesson, then music instrument lesson, then drawing lesson, then come to me like a piece of dead meat, I ask them why they come if they didn't like swimming, they tell me because "I have been forced to". Oh then they go home and have to finish their homework. Where is the time to play? Where is the time to socialize with others?

That is a parent problem.

The kids i see growing up here are either kids of well off parents - they go to school from 8 am to 4 pm, and then go another two hours to a tuition school.

The kids from poor parents here do and sell drugs when they are 14, by the age of 15 they take part in the illegal motorcycle races. If they are not dead or in jail they calm down when they are 20 something, have a wife and kids and work in one or the other dead end job.

The kids upcountry start working as day labors when they are 14 or 15.

Let your kids learn muay thai so they won't lose. Let your kids learn to stay safe so they won't get raped. Don't you want your kids to learn what their father have learnt? How can they learn if they are kept overly protected?

Are you drunk, or stoned?

You really have no idea what being a parent means.

I really wish you would have posted this for jts-khorat.

Anyway, maybe I am just simplistic, I went to one of the best schools here in HK, if I have children it would be easy for them to go to the same school which to many parents would be a dream. But, I am not sure if I would like my kids going there. The education system in HK now is becoming about competing in how much you know. I really don't know how to explain. It is about, you should do this you should do that, you shouldn't do this you shouldn't do that. Maybe this is becoming the trend of the world. But if I have kids, I will tell them to play as much as possible, there is land for you in thailand and you can always go back to be farmers and you won't starve. So do whatever you like as long as you don't harm people!

I am sorry - but i think that you have a rather romantic view of life as a farmer here.

You find many ex-farmers in the industrial zones, and bad as they are - they had a reason to move there.

There is not "land" for you. Land is unproportionally expensive here, compared to the possible income. Anything beyond a subsistence level existence is a major investment. Subsistence level farming means back breaking work, for very little money, which will not be enough for proper health care beyond the bare minimum, schooling that is so below standard that not sending kids to school at all gives a better education (at least then they won't have to undergo nationalistic brainwashing).

I didn't like school at home, but school in Thailand is much worse. Much longer hours - from 8 in the morning to 3 or 4 in the afternoon, terrible rote learning. In the cities the free schools are very violent, rapes and and horrible fights are very common, classes are often 40 to 50 children.

Upcountry the education is terrible.

Private schools give kids a somewhat OK education. International schools worth their name are 10000 US$ a year +++

Which school it is, your responsilbility is to help them live a happy life. Just look at them and see if they are happy! He doesn't have to be a doctor, engineer or lawyer to be happy!

It is not that easy, i am afraid.

A good education in Thailand is very expensive. The best possible education is beyond most people's reach. And the free education system here in Thailand is not going to prepare a person for a happy life - it generally prepares for a life of poverty. And no - it is not a happy life. Ask my wife, who had to start working for her living at the age of 11. Ask the millions of Thais who work for a base salary in a horrible factory of 6000 Baht a month, with overtime a bit more than 10000 Baht (which nowadays many cannot get with the enormous cut backs in many industries).

As a parent one wishes the best possible future and happiness for one's children. One thing that is superior in most European countries is a free education system of high quality that gives a child a free choice - be it as a lawyer, or as a carpenter.

So, yes, i do think everyday about returning to the west for the sake of my son's education (and no, to the poster who thinks that some may not be cut for life here - i have spent half my life here in Asia - almost 20 years. I think that qualifies me to be "cut" for life here), and how i am going to manage the years of bureaucratic and legal nightmare i have in front of me to be able to achieve that one day.

I don't know if you have children, or even, if you live permanently in Thailand, but i guess not. When you have children here, and cannot afford the best possible education (that is 10000 US$ +++ a year), things are not that simple, and worrying about these things can give you sleepless nights.