jomtienbob

The writer skipped the most obvious simile in regards to Toxin.

One would this a certain figure from the 1930's & 40's is a far more accurate comparison.

Thanks to some visionaries and a quiet majority of intelligent ones, history is less likely to repeat itself here...

By now everybody knows who is behind the setup of this man. Maybe someone can check the bank transfers into the account of the immigration chief. First there were pictures than there were not, than there were movies and x rated images on a computer than they were suddenly not. What stayed was the big company that had to settle a score. the lesson: Do not do business in Thailand. When the influential see that you are doing too good, they will use any trick in the book to get you out and their hands on your assets.

As a rule however, messing with influential Russians isn't usually good for one's longevity even if you are a policeman in a foreign country.

This story will run well beyond him being blacklisted (although he is apparently in the country under the terms of his bail), and I think we may find that this blacklisting may well be just a terrible slip of the tongue. How are they going to effect the visa cancellation? Arrest him and deport him. Now that is going to look very nice on world news.

Russian deported because policeman decided he was guilty. It is almost as though the immigration department forgot to notice that courts even exist in Thailand. The press will have a field day with it.

This is so obviously a travesty of justice that not even the government can ignore it.

The Russian embassy will be all over this story like a rash, hopefully Thailand's esteemed Foreign Minister has received a call already. What is Abhisit's contact number again to get in touch?

The even sadder case is in fact the lack of any journalistic scruples let alone real investigative journalism here or even in the west. Yes of course the obvious travesties of justice should be complained, but the media do nothing. Not here not in the west either. what have we come to?

There's a very effective sanitizer called DEZAVID SW available in Thailand that hoteliers and managers should use in their AC systems but often they do not do any maintenance or only the bare minimum let alone antibacterial preventative measures. Thus you'll always have these problems and the health dept will do nothing about it until it gets out of control. What more would you expect here in the land of Mai Pben Rai?

What a crazy story.

I googled his name and found this interview with him back when he played poker. A bit irrelevant but some people might be interested:

Actually, just watched all of it. It is relevant, the guys mad!

OK so give... what happened? in the tournament that is..

I was just hospitalized (emergency) for the first time in decades and it was in Pattaya Memorial that I ended up but mainly because I know of and have heard of so many horror stories from BKKPTYa. But I was very happy with the Doctor, but most of the rest of their 'operation' was geared to maximize profits regardless of any leaning towards the Hippocratic oath. When it came time for my bill they were quite brutal about it all but as an outpatient I was even more appalled at their exorbitant approach. I had to ensure that I checked their bill before I paid the money every time because the first 3 were wrong by 2-300%. They got somewhat peeved at me after a while but I just explained to them I had no confidence in their accuracy in their billing so I did actually save myself quite a bit.

Gee you would think that a Hospital like that making all that money would have fairly good hygiene etc. Well I'm no expert but I went in for surgery and they said I'd wake up in ICU, which shocked me somewhat because the very first thing I woke up to was the overhead fluorescent lights and there were 4-5 bugs of different flying and crawling derivatives on the 2 lights. Latter I was told that this was not ICU it was merely the particular recovery ward where they put people after serious surgery. Ahh well that explains it perfectly! Gee why didn't they just put me in the carpark I wonder? Or better still, down on the beach? mmm perhaps those drips with all those expensive drugs going into me might have been a bit more problematic to keep getting filled out there.

Anyhow I got out of the whole scenario for about 33% more that I probably would have paid in Australia (or so I am now informed) and they used 20 year old techniques and perhaps technology, but NO! they did INDEED fill me with the latest and greatest and most expensive drugs on the market today!! for all that expense I now have a 8 inch surgical wound where modern medicine would have had 1cm, and the list goes on. All I can say is that at least I did save myself some money by not going to BKKPTYa. That apparently would have cost me at least double what I had paid! My GF's sister works there, we checked!

Euro 7,300 has secured his release. I'll bet in blocks of Euro 7,300 he will never return - any takers????

I won't bet you money because that would be illegal in Thailand, but I think he will be back to clear his name. It looks like the Thai Pimp is the culprit in an old and very obvious boys-in-brown-mail scam. Will he be smart enough to out maneuver them? or does he indeed know what game is really underway? He's been here for 15 years but only on holidays I guess, so perhaps he might have taken the bait hook line and sinker? One thing is for sure is that there are some nasty individuals trying to extract a lot of money from him and no doubt already have.

Jeez one of the most obvious things that comes to mind here is what an obvious target Mr. Mikhail Pletnev would be to the cunning and evil-doers that skulk and lurk throughout Pattaya and its realms, making contacts with local natives so as to have a wide network of opportunity to snare juicy and apparently affluent prey such as Mr. Mikhail Pletnev. Then on top of that there threats from those criminals without formal jobs also!!

There has been several high profile suckers snared in the Pattaya region over the years and some of them have indeed been caught in compromised positions with illicit activities or substances however the lure of lucre always exceeds the balance of sanity let alone justice and fair play and thus you have all media knee jerk reacting to sensationalized police statements etc etc and The TV forum is not excluded from that either.

In regards to Mr. Pletnev he does seem to brazenly offer his open door for investigation by police or media and whilst this is perhaps foolish at a minimum it is CERTAINLY not the natural actions of a wrong-doer when snared or caught unawares! Please give this guy a break, and don't jump on the mass-media's normal lynch-mob mentality of guilt by implication under the camera lens. The days of true investigative journalism are almost dead in our home countries and have probably never been known here nor never will be. Just imagine yourself in this guy's shoes before rushing to any judgment about anything and remember that the majority of people involved are probably angling themselves for a piece of the large chunk of change that Mr. Pletnev will no doubt be alleviated of regardless of his guilt or innocence.

For those that have been here a while you'll know I speak the truth.

I worked with Jess a few years back in Bangkok. She came to Thailand with her bf and loved it at first.

After a few weeks/months the novelty wore off, and as she realised that most of the foreign men here were not interested in her (as she was used to back in the states). She started to resent the Thai girls who were considerably prettier, and much less trouble, than her. In turn she resented every western man who had a Thai gf/wife and decided that all men were sexpats and all thai women were bar girls.

It was quite sad to see. She became very very bitter and after about 4 or 5 months she couldn't take it anymore - she hated the place, so she left.

It seems that now she is on a mission to taint all ex-pats living in Thailand as perverts and sexual deviants.

also by Jessica:

http://benprise.ning.com/group/esl/forum/t...nd-esl-new-laws

Needless to say, most of what she says is bulls**t.

To say this girl has issues, is putting it mildly.

Isn't the WWW a wonderful thing ! Just what common sense suspected and indeed a slight cursory investigation almost immediately reveals.

Thanks for the sunshine Oldfield, daylight (spotlight) is indeed one of nature's best disinfectants!

It's sad that Jessica was too wrapped up in her own self image (perhaps the drugs didn't help) that she failed to learn some of the wisdom of the Buddhist community that surrounded her. Live and let live, and always understand Karma because it'll help you or hurt you depending on what you dish out to others....

After 10 mins investigation (which is about 10 mins more time and effort than Jessica Olien put into getting the facts about the sensationalized piece of drivel "What Happens To Thailand's Sex Tourism During The Riots?" ) it is apparent that Jessica is a fairly young inexperienced freelance reporter who is trying to sensationalize a name for herself back in the USA after a sordid failed attempt to be an English Teacher in Thailand a few years back. You can find plenty of information on her including her email twitter and face-book page with almost no imaginative effort. But the interesting thing is that (as we suspected earlier) Jessica has actually a deep seated vengeful agenda towards Thailand and could possibly have a lot of Skeletons in the closet.

So it would seem that recently she's been hacking out a few luminary elicitations for the HUFFINGTON POST in Washington where you can obviously see her in-depth insights and evidence based reporting skills with such Pulitzer Prize contending articles such as:

"Dairy of a Captive Platypus"

"Baby, I Didn't Like the Birthday Present"

"I Will Not Wait in Line For a Cupcake With You"

and the biggie would of course must be...

"Every time grown men talk about something "going viral," a cowboy falls off his horse."

Yes Jessica is even pictured quaffing copious Beers in her pubic appearances and indeed you can see at this event (http://guestofaguest.com/directory/jessica-olien/22178/), that EVERY (=100%) one of the photos of her have her pictured with partially drunk BEERs in hand. Is Jessica's comments perhaps a reflection of her own struggles with ALCOHOLISM perhaps?? And if that is the case, how can respected publications like the Huffington Post allow their image to be tarnished with the factless rantings of such a person who once wrote a myopic piece on for the Nation Newspaper in April 8, 2009 entitled "Sex, Drugs and ESL" opening with the lines "Like many young English teachers abroad, I was enthusiastic about—but woefully under-qualified for— my new profession."

Jeez here she is ranting about Sex and Drugs again but this is indeed often the case where the one screaming the loudest perhaps has the most to hide. Is it just coincidence that Jessica was no longer employed at the Nation after such revelations? mmmm me thinks Shakespear put it best with the classic line

Me Thinks (S)he Protesteth Too Much!

Oh yes my business has Government regulatory approvals in process and so it seems as they have all been delayed many months, but it's still hard to know because we can't get clear answers from anyone, but like all Govt civil servant organizations world wide this was a beauty of an excuse to do nothing and blame it all on someone else. This is costing us big time and of course it delays production and new employment etc etc etc No wonder it's so easy for the well connected few to get in and make seriously big bucks here. It's so incredibly difficult for the rest, and most of the masses have no idea nor any desire to get one...

The Reds had a point: Thailand is a very unequal society, with a handful of key families controlling so much of its commercial life - & pocketing the proceeds.

Of course they were used by the odious Thaksin - who must never be allowed to influence Thai polity again.

And they contained their fair share of violent nutters.

But their key point remains valid: Thailand is precipitously unequal.

Unless that is rectified, the Reds will rise again.

That might be the end of the present elite, even the end of civil peace.

Better to make a deal now, to bring about fairness.

Yes the salient point being that Toxin and his ilk are indeed at the top echelons of said wealthy elite. He indeed pocketed plenty of the people's (poor and otherwise) money and gave no heed to education or helping the rural masses learn to fish. Instead he gave them a few loaves and fishes and claimed to be their messiah. I was quite surprised they didn't have copious quantities of coolaide at the ready there in Ratchaprasong...

What an irresponsible article, even if April 1.

First there is a claim attributed to Dr Kusol Prawitpaiboon that the blood was tainted and that the "diseases also can live outside the human body in normal condition for about six hours". No evidence was cited how the blood was collected or if anyone was exposed. Just a horrible cheap article that will spread fear.

This doctor has just made medical history with his claims on the longevity of the various viruses since HIV starts to degrade once it is deprived of oxygen and away from human ambient core temperature. The time is measured in minutes not hours.

6 hours only? Not for HCB, it can go for 10 days and the klongs of bangkok are swimming with it. HCV is good for 4-5 days and is concurrent with HIV because it is associated with IV drug users. (Nice insinuation) If this guy was serious he would have raised the issue of TB, but that would have necessitated pointing out that on any given day the trains and subway of Bangkok are filled with carriers and that might expose a secret no one wants to discuss openly.

I am not going to bash this fellow because I think his statements were taken out of context and distorted. I know he is no friend of the Thaksin camp, but I can't see him making statements that would incite panic. Not that it isn't possible he could be given to rhetoric if this is the same fellow that was one of the communist sympathizers that participated in the Oct. 6, 1976 student protests at Thammasat University back when he was in medical school. He hounded former PM Samak Sundaravej for the deaths of the students saying the student deaths were his doing. In health research a person with such views that would undertake such research is considered biased and any data provided by a biased researcher is deemed tainted. A neutral party should have overseen this exercise.

However, the same doctor admitted that tests found that the blood used in the symbolic blood-pouring protests included pig and cattle fluids. Ya think? It wasn't any big secret. The human blood gathered was small and for the cameras. Several people in TV picked up on the sham that the blood event was going to be when they wrote that they expected animal byproducts to be used. The redshirts did what all other theaterical producers do, they went out and got the props for the show.

Thankfully the record is set straight by Permanent Secretary for Public Health Paichit Varachit with his statement that the chance of contracting the virus was slim. And there is the comment from Dr Somsak Lolekha, president of the Medical Council of Thailand, who said it is not easy to be infected unless these persons have injuries and were soaked by the disease-concentrated blood.

For what it's worth, the typical visitor to a Thai tattoo parlour or some dentist offices is at greater risk of contracting hepatitis than were bystanders at the blood splatter party. But shhh, we can't mention that and the absence of health surveillance.

Yes you are quite correct but there were a few dong the IV blood donor thing...

It does give some very big ammunition to the Government though. Ha ha ha

Toxin's crowd are as dumb as he is

yes, 20 baht or less than 0.5 euro extra will really stop farangs from drinking more... as they only earn 1500 - unlimited amount of euros each month...

BUT

guess this is the big joke of THAIVISA to scare all the (half) drunk TV readers

Its a story from Pattaya One News. I guess Howard is in the know because of his tourist police involvement.

Everyone's missed the obvious point here. How on earth are they going to police, verify or monitor the owner/vendors for tax collection?? I can see the average owner/vendor saying "Oh trust me I only had 10 farangs in my bar this month the rest were all Thais" yeah right! Perhaps they'll just clamp down on Farang owned premises? But then the Farang partners could say "hey we are just minority 49% shareholders, this is a Thai owned business"! etc. etc. this sounds like another fanciful rumor from Howard and it wouldn't be the first nor last. We wish he'd choose either tourist police volunteer or journalist and not keep trying to be both.

There is a Computers for Kids charity in Pattaya run by a guy called Jeep Hothouse who gladly accepts such donations.

I can't give you the contact details but I know he volunteers most of his time and a large slice of his pension to keep the project going.

I'll see if I can dig up the details.

I heard that this afternoon the red shirts were pouring into Pattaya and Sukhumvit was all blocked up. Looks like the Police chief is only just about to learn where his resources might be best applied. I wonder if they'll be makin a mess down here again eh? My guess is its likely because they want the international exposure! They must already think he's going to loose... now what would give them that idea??

Expect a phone call shortly afterwards with a lower price...

Sorry for your trouble, I am sure this was not an easy decision.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Yes that was the right thing to do, offer termination. I explained my position and feelings and the fact that I thought this was greed driven and outrageous and I will not continue the relationship let alone discuss marriage. It didn't take long and no phone calls were made to the relatives, but my GF said "OK don't worry about the SS, I'll take care of it" which I guess means that she will negotiate it and pay it herself, which I think she can afford, but I am betting will be a fraction of what they wanted from me. No big fight or argument, just a pragmatic discussion. Now it is like it never happened nor discussed. Interesting..

Anyhow 2 points were made clear to me and that is surely that my GF wants to be with me regardless of the money and demands from her family, and that her family don't care, they just want the money. I guess I'll leave it up to her to negotiate any future demands which no doubt will be plentiful and creative...

Signing off "for now" JB ;-)

It is a Thai custom, not a act to get money out of a farang, Thai's mostly the poor ones in the village sacrificed all to get their child a good education, that is their future old age pension as it is their duty to care for a child in the beginning. It is the child's duty to care for the parents as they age.

The average poor Thai rice farmer pay 100,000 baht, as sin sot for his wife to be.

I agree with that, what I do not agree with is the need for sin sot on a 2nd marriage, In my way of thinking the parents have already been compensated for losing their daughter, at the time of the 1st marriage. I did not pay any sin sot and none has ever been asked for, that was a decision made at an early part of our courtship. I would take over care of my two daughters and my wife, her family was glad she had someone that could take care of her in style, get her a house that is hers and willed to my daughters.

We were married without fanfare, at the Amphur office, held a party and informed all we were already man and wife. I am on the best of relations with my in laws and my life is great. It is a foregone conclusion that me being older than my in laws, that they will eventually come to reside in our home as it is my wife's duty to care for them in their old age. I have no problem with that!

Cheers:

I have found out that it is an outdated custom just like so very many of ours in the west. some adhere to the old ways, most do not, and some are just licentious greedy people who are found in every country and culture regardless of wealth and standing. In this investigation I have heard so many stories of it just being presented as a token part of the ceremony and others where the brides family give valuable land in return, but few where the exhorbitant demands of 1m baht + were insisted upon from poor rice farming families regardless of job status or anything.

I have also (yesterday) discovered that my GF's sister has a 250k demand on her Thai BF and he and his family thinks this is outrageous and no plans of marraige soon are in the wings but they are still together in a part time manner. She is a nurse in a big international hospital in Pattaya. Sadly on valentines day I'll be terminating my relationship with a genuinely lovely intelligent and normally generous and sweet girl who has a terribly skewed family behind her. I know I will never overcome that.

Thanks so much for your feedback.

Goes visit Laos if you want to know what has changed

good point

Nio, I'm not going to quote the entire post of yours but I will say this. If every case of Sin Sot was like yours, that is were you got all the money back, then only the "no pot to piss in" types you mentioned, would bitch about it.

But the truth is, such is not the case. Many of the parents keep it and furthermore feel entitled to the sale of their daughter.

And that's the problem that most expats that are involved with sin sot have.

Don't knock everyone just because you had it good and didn't have to pay a dime to sin sot. Nor were you burdened with the painful conundrum of doing something incredibly meaningful for your wife while compromising some of your principles or doing things your way while devastating your wife and forming a rift between her and her family.

Touche that pretty well sums up the conundrum I feel I am in. well said

Don't pay a dam_n thing. You are a fool if you do. But hey....it's your money...

If you can read Thai, read about all the multimillions in sin-sod paid

How much did Tata Young get? 30,000,000?

Must have been a fool that married her right?

The point is not about the MONEY that you make it out to be.

The point is, it is a joint decision for the good of ALL. Not just the broke dick that lied his way into a relationship being something he wasn't

That includes what you can afford, what is good for the parents face, what will make your future wife happy

Start life out on the wrong foot and she will get even someday, wait and see

Look in the mirror first and ask yourself if the shoe was on the other foot how much a future wife would pay for you if she could?

Probably zero.

Tata Young got 30 million - who said no talent doesn't pay. Sexy naughty bitch.

I heard it was 100 mil but her dad told my friend that it was just for show.

One thing for all westerners to understand?

You will never be more important than the family no matter what you think.

While you have been dating their daughter for 1, 2, 3 years, those parents took care of their child and educated her since birth

The mindset is the daughters will never ever put you first when they feel they owe their parents so much

For the OP, sorry, but your attitude is unbelievable

For many of you guys here, (Send all the flames you want because the truth hurts), what exactly is it that you are bringing to the table yourself as a man?

You own a multi-million baht house? A few rai of land? Have a couple nice cars? Have money in the bank? Have an income in excess of 1,000,000+ baht a year here in Thailand?

Or are you a school teacher?

I bet this girls qualification out do the OP's 10 to 1

People bitch and complain about Sin Sod do it for ONE REASON ONLY!

Because they do not have any money or a pot to piss in or because they have been masquerading around as some rich dude that they obviously are not

It is just your good fortune to be in a country that has more girls than men and they are really desparate to get married to anyone

A person has to be a total loser to come on a forum full of strangers and start whining about Sin Sod. It says allot about your character.

Do you think your GF or future family gives a crap what anyone on TV tells you? No they don't.

For the honest and hard working guys out there, (there are many and I respect that), Sin Sod is a private matter between the man, woman and family.

If you have made it all the way in a relationship where you decided to get married and start belly aching about sin-sod, that tells me you are not really into the relationship the way you should be or you have been misrepresenting yourself along the way.

What kind of relationship goes all the way down to planning a wedding then get in a fight over sin-sod?

The most foolish thing I have ever heard and more because I am a westerner, I am better than any Thai girl mental crap

If you had a real relationship, you would have discussing this long before now

If you were a real man, and this goes for all of you, you have two choices in Thailand.

Respect that a marriage is 2 people with 2 cultures, not just your culture.

You are adding a partner, not a subservant slave

How can you love a person when you cannot even respect her or her culture or family?

That is a good sign right there this will never last.

Sin Sod is for you, your future wife and family to work out. Be a man about it.

If you cannot afford it, quit lying that you are bigshot rich farang and tell the truth for once

Ask your wife what will happen to the money?

If the money needs to go to the family, look at your own finances and see what you can do?

This Sin Sod problem is conceived because to many western cockswingers over here pretending to be rich or something they are not.

When it comes time to do the right thing, panic sets in that they will be discovered for who they really are.

This is no way to start a new marriage and recipe for a short ending and that is a fact.

Starting life off arguing about money.

For me it went like this.

Long, long before the marriage we discussed the Sin Sod issue.

Since I live in Thailand and was there at the family house 1,000,000 times I did not have to guess how rich or poor they were

My future wife and I talked about the Sin Sod and per parents wanted allot, allot more than any of you are talking about here by a high multiple.

There were no secrets between my finances and my wife anywhere leading up to the big event

We had a joint bank account for 3 years prior.

With a Masters Degree in Economics, fluid in English, my future wife was making US $50,000 a year in Dubai with Emirates, where she still works today.

However, the money was for the parents face in their community.

Most of you will never understand how important this is to the daugher, but short of her having a child, I would say this is the most important thing a man will ever do for her.

Her parents get to live out their lives in their community knowing that now everyone in the community believes THEIR daughter is worth something

The parents did not want to keep the money, this was all discussed in a face to face sit down meeting and it was returned as promised.

When I look back, this was one the best decisions I have ever made and I think my wife will love me forever for the sole fact of giving her parents this piece of me.

I gained a first class woman, wonderful wife that is ever surprising me with things from around the world.

My in-laws are great and being they are the only family I have, I am thankful I have them.

Don't make a mistake and lose it all.

Some of your points (towards the end are valid) however you simply forgot or overlooked the original question and that was a guage to find out whether the demand asked of me was reasonable or exorbitant. It would seem the latter which tends me towards negotiation rather than your attitude of blind acceptance. As for your accusation that I am "lying that you are bigshot rich farang and tell the truth for once" well, I am a partner and owner of a corporation here that is dealing with some of the biggest corporations in Thailand and S.E. Asia but we didn't get here by being stupid with people or money. Anyhow it's more sad to see such narcissistic attitudes from someone who probably resembles your own accusation.

My Father and Mother in Law expected no sinsod from me. However I/we were expected to pay for the wedding. So the wedding was paid for and everything is great. Haha despite my wife working here in the U.S. her dad still asks her if she wants him to send money to her, daddy's girl to the end.

That's lovely. You are so lucky

Something to factor in .

What is her monthly pay with this great job and education.

What are yours and her expectations of supporting her family after marriage.

Be sure to discuss this. She is from a poor family

If she was from a rich family the sin sod would be for show and your continual support would be unlikely.

You now may be paying as she was rich with the disadvantage of her family being poor.

The 1 million would be gone is less than a year then back to the Farang for more.

If you pay the full amount you will be tapped for ever.

Good luck. The longer you put this off the lower it will go.

If this is small money to you move forward and pay.

If this is big money to you things will play out themselves.

Thanks for the advice. Yes my GF gets 35k/mth currently which is reasonably good for a 29YO here in Thailand, and I understand she sends money back home regularly but not every month. I am not sure how much she sends but she has 1 sister who also does that and she is a nurse in a Major hospital catering to foreigners. So I guess Mum and Dad are better off than most of their peers.

To be quite honest I was impressed with her parents in that they had sacrificed to get their 2 girls through reasonably good universities and into credible careers and that they have succeeded in admirably, so the whole SS thing just surprised the hel_l out of me as I never imagined they'd stoop to the good ol' greed is good philosophy.

I have a good business here but it's only just now underway with production, after a few years of major investment and set up, but I am no about to start feeding the greed-pigeons if they start down that track with me as you are exactly right, I'd be in for it for ever more afterward. They got their daughters out of the rat race through hard work and sacrifice and I got my business up and running the same way. It's just sad to see that some people never really understand what it's all about. Anyhow I think we'll go for the "give it to them for show" strategy and if they don't like that I'll rethink the whole "why this lot" as I have in the past.

Jeez it's hard to find a good one with a good family.

Get a life! You want to pay for a used fanny you deserve what ever you want to be screwed for. How many of these 'Sin Sot' topics do we have to put up with.

Jeezus H Criste You are not compelled to read the postings let alone compelled to be so crass rude and obnoxious about them. You don't have to put up with any of the postings here at all, go somewhere else!

I agree with your response above "jomtienbob" and no one should be flaming you here. Although there is plenty of info on the sinsod issue, I can understand how tedious it can be to sift through to find the answers you are looking for.

It is obvious that you care very much for your wife to be. You may want to think about setting up a meeting with her family. NOT uncles aunts cousins, etc, but mom and dad ONLY!! If you agree to a sinsod then you need to TELL them what is realistically feasible for you. After all you are starting a life with their daughter and her problems become yours and visa versa, financially and otherwise.

I was married here in Issan with a full Issan wedding and writing a check (although bogus) was totally accepable to my inlaws and the 200+ people at our wedding. After all, the sinsod is a face saving issue. If you feel like you are being extorted then this is a seperate issue.

Good luck. Hopefully you will have more constructive posts to help guide you.

Thanks a lot

a few moments here and there on this forum is a lot more current and often informative than most searches. BTW most google searches on this bring up old forum posts here and some of the nightlife columns which really don't apply to my case.

Thanks again

The test of the farang's self esteem and commonsense is how he responds to the demand for payment. If one is confident of his self worth and not a sucker, he will point out the economic facts: That if the subject of the transaction is to be treated like chattel, then it is only fair that there be an appraisal of value. None of these objects up for sale are worth the asking prize of the sinsod. Would you overpay for a car, a washing machine or a garden hoe? No. So why do it here? Pying the sinsod is the first step to a marriage that will end with a man's crushed dreams, empty bank account and broken heart.

The reality is that the women that are worth paying a sinsod for, don't make unreasonable demands or even expect one, and those that demand a bloated sinsod payment are never worth it. Be a smart shopper.

Maybe it's time for Tesco to offer a sinsod department where silly farangs can go and buy a fresh bride off the shelf.

Thanks for the thoughts, and yes how one responds in any negotiation usually sets your course in the early stages. I have mostly associated with better educated here in Thailand and my friends both Thai and foreign here reflect that, my GF does also, but i was as shocked as you wouldn't believe when after knowing her for 6 months I found out she was from a poor farming family. But I gave it a go anyhow as she is certainly no dummie and is well educated with excellent values and character and she'd got straight into a top corporation in BKK straight out of college and has worked there 7-8 years. I guess I am now finding out that she probably didn't get all that integrity from her family, so I am trying to find some real facts, as I don't mind to pay for the ceremonies etc etc but it just goes against my culture and standards to pay this sinsod unless it is purely ceremonial, which was the case with friends of mine. However yes it is very different with the poor uneducated farmers, so to have any case to be argued with my GF (First) I'll need real and current facts. As for the bank account it won't empty it, but I can imagine if one lets them get away with exorbitant stuff like this it will be continuously under siege I think.