Lovethailandelite

1 minute ago, Card said:

I opened one without a problem in Huey kaew Road Chaing Mai and Head office Silom, but then when I tried to open a term deposit in Silom at a later date a silly woman said I had to provide all new documentation, ie. passport and proof of address, for any new accounts even though I provided both of them for the savings account in the same branch. Suffice it is to say I blew a wobbly. Then I went to the branch on rama 4 and they opened a term deposit with only my passport. The one on Rama 4 might be your best bet after trying silom - but beware the woman bank manager - she's a bit of a hippy and will try to rope you into getting investments - even phoning u up later, and they don't speak much English but they will open anything for you :-). You will need passport and proof of address - I used my rental contract and deposit receipt in Silom first time.

Your on a retirement extension, he's on a tourist visa. That is the difference. It isn't as easy anymore opening bank accounts on a tourist visa as it once was.

2 minutes ago, maccra said:

I thought about that too. If I do a new transfer then I will have about 1.7m, say. I don't do it because I figure they may ask where the previous 800k came from. I just thought open new account would be "clean" with no history to try explain, or get rejected.

I see no reason why they would ask and indeed if they did, look at your bank book on the far right of each entry of receiving funds in your account. There is a code, I have no idea who you bank with but for Kasikorn for instance, any funds coming in from abroad shows code MCL and then four numbers. MCL in the case of Kasikorn shows the receiving  funds coming in from outside of Thailand and the four numbers denote which institution sent the funds.

3 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

The real issue is that the letter of the law provides for people to visit Thailand for 15 reasons, it did not provide for people to live here other than by extending their visas for specific lengths of stay. The ministry realises that some people who can afford to, want to live here and has accepted that they can and has provided under rule 15 for it, retirement, visiting family, marriage, Elite Card etc.
There should be no issue with tourists extending an exempt entry stamp, if Immigration gives them an extension then they stay longer if not then they get seven days. Theoretically they only have to pack their suitcases get on a plane.
All the threads asking about best border crossings etc. show that many people know that if they asked at Immigration to do what they are doing they would be refused and in all likelyhood they have more to pack than their suitcase. There are even people on retirement extensions who do not have the money deposited in a Thai bank. All this cheating represents an income so it is tolerated but it does mean inconsistencies exist because not everyone is cheating consistently. It sometimes seems to me reading of people's experiences as though, if you are not cheating Immigration wishes you were!


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See post N0 59 of how Immigration prefer it done 

1 minute ago, maccra said:

All,

Thanks for the information. In my case, my application for a change of status to Non-O was not accepted. I needed a document from the bank that shows that the 800k was a foreign transfer. All my money in my Thai bank account has been from a foreign transfer, but mylast transfer was in 2012, and I could not get any document from the bank because it was too long ago, so I could not prove it. Immigration ask me if I was working here (maybe they suspected I was getting local money)

 

Anway, not sure what to do now.

I have been trying to open an other bank account but every branch/bank I go to say I need a Work Permit, which I don;t have, because I am not working here. I figured if I could open another account and make a new foreign transfer then that shouyld satisfy Immigration (at BKK).

 

If I can not open another bank account I can only see my option to go to Vientiane and get a Non-O there.

Is it required to proof of the source of the 800k at Vietiane, or is just Bank Book and Bank letter only required.

 

Thanks

 

 

Why not just do another foreign transfer into the Thai Bank account you have already. I cannot see why your trying to open a new account if you already have one?

20 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Going back to your original post I think that I misunderstood. If you had been on a PE visa going in and out, when the IO asked about frequency of visits and TM30 reports why didn't you refer her to Thailand Elite?
I wondered if people paying 'agents' decided to stop using agents there would be trouble, if in your case trying to drop Thailand elite was similar in that it also represents a loss of income to the counry.


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They never asked why I was going in and out just stating that I had been and I had never done a TM30 or been reported for 3 years. Having a PE visa makes no difference to anything. It's just a 5 year ME Visa at the end of the day.

As I have said previously, I was quite happy to avoid doing 90 day reports either by myself doing them or TE doing them for me. I was happy to fly out from 15 minutes down the road from U-Tapao airport for a few days or a week or 2 away. I have loads of time on my hands nowdays to do as I please. Now that door has been shut by needing to do a TM30 report on my return. As the Thais like to say 'Same same'.

1 minute ago, tgeezer said:

I think that the problem is comparing experiences when obviously everbody is an individual at the Immigration level. If you are a 'tourist' with a condo, car, dog etc. and base yourself in Thailand you can't be expected to be considered the same type of tourist who comes here temporarily and stays in hotels for 30 days.
edit: in spite of the fact that each of your many visas says you are that sort of tourist!

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The issue comes for Tourists when they try to extend a 30 day visa exempt entry. As is being reported.

Just now, wobalt said:

So then I understand you filed the TM30 because you stay in a condo owned by you? In that case of cause you might be responsible to report it and to pay the fine.

Not only owners but renters as they are considered to be 'The Housemaster'. Then there is the matter of hotels that had failed to report me. Allegedly I become responsible for that scenario too as It's my job 'Allegedly' to make sure I am reported.  

Just now, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote they have to check a database for TM30 reports done by hotels and etc. They do have a record of where you have been but most offices will not take the time to check when you have to do something at immigration.

Jomtien are checking. That's who I have to deal with. Hence people are being fined and not only the one time. I believe Chang Mai are strict on it too and wanting people to report back when away from the province. I have never dealt with them but I read there forum. They actually appear to be hotter on it than Jomtien. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual how they want to play this but I am not in the mind of paying them 4,000Bt on more than one occasion.

1 minute ago, wobalt said:

Somehow weird and confusing! I understand from your post that you are owner of a condo? And you went to Jomtien immigration "to sort what out??" You are on a PE visa, why do you not inform the Elite visa guys about the TM30 requirements?

It has nothing to do with TE regarding the reporting of a TM30. I went to Jomtien to file my own TM30, yes I could of just left it until I got caught. That's not how I work though. I like to be 100% legal.

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"Thailand sets her own immigration rules".

Wrong, the individual Thai Embassies, Consulates, and Immigration make up a lot of their own rules which just confuses people.

They are all supposed to work to the same set of rules. The difference is some are actually implementing them and some aren't. If they strictly enforced some of the rules that are already in place, a lot of people wouldn't be here. 

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If they have left the country then they may need to report as I wrote but not for traveling within the country and staying at hotels.

On very pendant offices want one if you stay in hotel because they check the database to find out it they did. The TM30 reports do not change your permanent address are are kept in different database.

The way Jomtien explained is they want you to report back to where you are living. If for instance I was reported in a hotel in say Phuket. I would then be on the system as being in Phuket but have in fact come home to Chon Buri. The whole idea of it appears to be that Immigration want to know exactly where you are.

Just now, ubonjoe said:

I have done 9 extension here at Ubon immigration and have never been asked for a TM30. I have stayed in hotels that I am certain have reported me and still no request for a TM30. I have friends here that have only been asked to do a report when they re-entered the country and that is it never after staying in a hotel.

Yes I am not disputing that. The same in Jomtien, hundreds fined and hundreds not asked or fined. I have friends in Ubon too that are having to travel and report back in on a TM30 after being fined the first time. As I said, no consistency of how it's being implemented. What else can you say about it?

The major issue with it is that there is absolutely no consistency with how it is being implemented from province to province. I wish they would either fine everybody or get rid of it. At least then we would all know what we are doing on a day daily basis. Nobody even knows what those hotels that do report report people are actually doing since the system is down. Are they manually reporting or not bothering? Nobody knows.

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not correct. There is no need to report every time you travel around the country.

If you live in Chaing Mai, Chon Buri or Ubon for example you most certainly do. Ask those that are being fined and what they are being told they MUST do in order not to be fined again. I never stated 'ALL' immigration offices as they are not all implementing it...Yet.

48 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Seconded. Why come to a country that doesn't want you there? There are 194 countries in the world apart from Thailand and your own. Many of them are quite nice. Including Sweden, actually.

The UK, USA, Canada etc etc There is 3 countries off of your list not to try continual back to back tourist visas in for months and years at a time. Have you seen what a Thai has to go through to travel outside of his or her country? And I don't mean Cambodia, Laos, the Philippines or Myanmar that will except just about anybody. If these places are so great that people like to keep using for examples, why don't they just move there? Thailand sets her own immigration rules. Why isn't that acceptable?

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

In my case if they made me responsible for TM 30 they would be able to fine me only for each entry once a year for eleven years 22000Bt. I wouldn't be admitting to any trips up country and any they knew about would be because the accomodation had reported me so not due a fine. I guess that it could be argued that every report away entails a failed report on return so the less hotel reports the better!
I agree that we shouldn't really concern ourselves with the law only with what Immigration demands of us but what are the requirements of a PE visa apart from reporting your whereabouts and re-reporting if in the country more than ninety days?


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If a hotel reports you in a province which isn't the one you reside in, you will need to report on your return or it is certainly another fine.
The requirements you mentioned are the only conditions you would need to abide too if holding a PE Visa. If you live in Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket or Chang Mai then Thailand Elite who run the scheme will do the report for you free of charge if you wish them too. You could of course cross a boarder and return ( Land or air) before your 90 day report is due and 'Re-set' the clock but now a TM30 report is required anyway, that seems rather pointless. TM30 or 90 day report you still need to do one or the other.

I believe the thinking behind expecting you to have a Job is so the METV is only used for short periods of multiple visits as a Tourist and not using the METV to live and or work here on it. The misuse of visas is IMO, the driving factor behind making it more and more difficult to get visas which appears to be happening on a daily basis in one form or another.
This is not implying the OP was in anyway going to misuse the METV.

10 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I don't think that you will have any more issues now that you are on an extension. I would say that you got off very lightly. To stay in your condo. on each of 15 visits unreported would be 30,000Bt .



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I am not on an extension. I am on a PE visa which allows me a 12 month stay on each and every entry. I won't have anymore problems as I will just comply with there rule and report every time I leave and return to Chon Buri province and each and every time I leave and re-enter the country. That is what they require and it don't just apply to Jomtien immigration either. I will also insist on a hotel reporting me and ask for a receipt to show they have complied. If the hotel don't want to do it, as has been proved most are not, then I will phone immigration and report myself or report myself to the nearest police station. As for being lucky with getting away with only a 4,000Bt I agree which is why in my first post when immigration asked me if I would like them to go back further than 5 years on my computerized history which I saw with my own eyes is all there, I said no, 4000Bt is reasonable enough to pay as I firmly believe the fine can be applied for every period of non reporting in the past and back dated accordingly. In my case that would amount to quite a few hundreds of thousands of Baht.

1 hour ago, tgeezer said:

Maybe issued is the wrong word, I assume that it was the address under the report Number 1178 which is Div 3 .... Bangkok.
That makes sense to me because I see Bangkok as "Head Office".



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Fact is, you can pull the wording around anyway you interpret it but at the end of the day it leaves 2 choices. Comply and pay and then be legal and carry on complying to stay legal in the boundary's they set. This in turn means you have no issues with reports, extensions and any other dealings with Immigration. The second option is don't comply and take whatever comes of it which in a lot of reported cases is a refusal of Visa extensions. I doubt putting yourself on overstay and having all sorts of problems attempting to stay here will teach Immigration a lesson?
That's about it really. As they say 'The choice is yours'.

3 hours ago, mlkik said:

I am now in Pattaya and have spoken with about half a dozen people within the same condo about extension for retirement  and am rather surprised that every one of them used an agent and have very little in a Thai bank account.

It seems that it really is common practice to have an agent do a dodgy deal with Immigration.

Mostly due to the high concentration of British expats that cannot make the pension incomes of 65000bht a month on today's exchange rates. That equates to a pension income of over £1550 a month after Tax. Having the 800,000bht in a an account, lots can only ever dream of having.

12 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

The leaflet does not lay it out quite plainly at all, it merely summarises the Act in respect of Rule 37 and 38. There is absolutely nothing about the visitor being responsible for failure to comply with 38 (TM 30 ) . In fact the camparing the amount of fines, 5000 plus 200 per day until done for the tourist 37 (2), compared with a simple 2000 for 38 would indicate that 38 was intended for a Thai citizen.
The leaflet is issued by Immigration Bangkok entitled "Coming across wrongdoing, Know the signs." then a list of situations.
Foreigners illegally entering the country
Foreigners being hired or hireing without permission.
Foreigners begging, sexwork, fishing.
Signs of drugs
Criminal activity across the country.
There is the official logo on the right and telephone numbers of regional Immigration police on the left.
Seems like a strange thing to be waving to justify fining an OAP for not reporting her husband's presence in their home.




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The leaflet is issued by Immigration Division 3 as it plainly states. Division 1 is Bangkok. Division 3 includes....

 

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

About this, your immigration officer was definitely wrong. He would also be wrong if he refused you an extension of stay for the reason that the hotel failed to report your arrival with a TM.30.

Lets put it this way. I was on a loser anyway for failing to report myself in my own property. On the other hand, I would put every Baht in my bank accounts here which amount to a good few million, on you not winning the argument with them should you find yourself in the same situation. After being in and out of this country for the best part of 35 years, I have learnt that there will only be one winner and won't be you 
Me, I just smile and pay up. I am not short of 4000 bht in order to have a peaceful existence here. Stirring immigration up has this nasty habit of coming back and biting you firmly on the arse at a later date. Of course, it's entirely up to others how they play it but myself, i'm all for the easiest possible.
Anybody translated the images of the leaflet I scanned in yet?

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

I am sure that, had you asked, the immigration officer would have been unable to show you any law, Ministerial Regulation or other official rule that makes you responsible for the submission of the TM.30 when you stay at a hotel. Challenge the officer on this , next time you have a friendly chat with him; he may learn something and be grateful to you for it.

Don't worry, I had the discussion. There answer was the report needs to be done as the law states that all foreigners need to report or be reported within 24 hrs of entering the country and that anyone coming to Thailand is responsible to know the Immigration laws. If the hotel  fails to report, you become liable. Hotels can quite easily print a receipt and give it to you (I have since found out)  Maybe this scan of the leaflets explaining how it works which they hand out, helps should you read Thai.
Allegedly it lays it out quite plainly. I have no idea if these leaflets have been posted on this forum in the past but this is what Jomtien Immigration hands out.
Take a look and see what you think. Not reading Thai I have relied on others to pick the pieces out of it.

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My experience has been consistent at Jomtien for a year or so - one TM-30 unless you move, in which case you fill out a new one. 

 

I tried to submit a new TM-30 after a trip out of the country just after this TM-30 law was resurrected - I was asked if I was still at the same address as the TM-30 receipt already in my passport - I replied that I was - was then told "You don't need this then."  That original receipt is still in use - accepted for multiple extensions after trips out and back.  I also put the same address as on my TM-30 on every TM-6 when I enter the country.

 

To the fellow with the problem at Jomtien, I would guess there was no TM-30 on file for your permanent address over an extended time - hence the fine.  They DO want you to have your permanent address registered - just not re-registered over and over. 

 

Note: This info may Only Apply At Jomtien - your local immigration office procedures may vary.  To be safe, try reporting TM-30s every time out and back and only stop if they tell you to stop.

Yes. Never a TM30 filed for my permanent address but there concern was also there was no TM30 filed against any entry or exit from the country where I had a hotel stay for the last 3 years which I allegedly become responsible for too. The last time I was reported was 3 years ago which also means some hotels have been complying with this old law even though it has recently been resurrected. They quite openly showed me my entry and exit history for the last 5 years and as I said, offered to go back further if I wanted to dispute the fact.
It's done now and as I now know how the system works and what they expect, they won't be fining me again. I can just as easily report my arrival back home after a trip out of the province or abroad, as easily as I can pay a fine.
On the other hand, it was quite an eye opener just how much information there computer systems are holding regarding entry's and exits and how far back in your history they can go.