Bob Chittie

You're doing a job. Fair enough.

Now, everyday all over Thailand the police drive by establishments that sell bootleg goods. Are you telling me that they don't arrest the owners and shut down the shop because the 'rights owners' haven't requested the assistance of the Thai police yet and therefore, there's nothing that can be done? Are you sure its not because the shops are owned by influential people or that the shops are paying the police? Are you serious?

Does that mean that if I steal a car in front of the police, they will wait for a complaint to be filed by the owner before running after me?

I have to admit, I am seriously confused by your line of reasoning here.

The police can only act against copyright infringers when there has been a specific complaint laid in advance by the copyright owner. Without such a complaint, they cannot do anything. This is because that rather than being a crime against the state (as, for example, theft of an automobile is), theft of copyrights is classified as a crime against the copyright owner. No complaint, no crime.

Mind you, this is distinct from trademark offenses (i.e., fake NIKE sports shoes, as opposed to pirated music, software, or movies), which IS a crime against the state. Theoretically, police CAN take unilateral action against purveyors and manufacturers of fake trademark items. In reality, though, they do not, because without the help of the trademark owner, the police have no basis upon which to prove to the court that the items are counterfeit -- they need the trademark owner for that. So, just like counterfeit offenses, the police do nothing until a representative of the trademark owner shows up to lay a complaint and take them by the hand.

That is why I say that the police have no say in who gets busted and who doesn't. It is the copyright or trademark owner who decides.

That is not to say that cops don't hit up vendors for pay-offs. Even if they don't charge them with intellectual property offenses, the cops CAN make problems for them in any number of other ways. Sometimes, local cops take pay-offs in a promise to give the shops a tip-off if a raid is impending. In reality, though, such weak "protection" rackets can be easily gotten around by using cops from a different locality, and by carefully concealing the identity of the raid targets until it is too late.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks. Yes, actually I do have further questions. (And interesting stuff by the way).

What prevents, say Adobe, from contacting the Thai authorities and saying, 'look, our $1000 software is selling for 100 baht in every city centre in the country. You know it. We know it. Its time you put a stop to this now.'? Maybe they don't have the resources to go after each seller. In that case, surely there are big players in the industry? If not big players, then there are absolutlely known shopping areas where you'd be hard pressed to find licensed software. Why aren't they quickly shut down, again with the order of someone like Adobe? At the very least, this would pose a serious inconvenience to the owners and tenants, thus discouraging such activity in the future, would it not?

Additionally, as selling pirated software is not a crime against the state, why do so many of these establishments only offer pictures of the said product in small folders which can quickly be slipped into a bag if neccessary? Are the police making empty threats since in reality there's nothing they can do except site the seller for an unrelated violation?

And last, but certainly not least, what prevents the Thai governemnt from passing a simple law that says media such as music, movies and software may be copied for personal use only. Selling such copies will be considered illegal and the perpretrators will be jailed and or fined? One would be forgiven for beleiveing that police and other influential people are profiting from the current state of affairs.

It seems whiteshadow is determined to ignore any facts. Firstly, only a couple percent, if that, of the population is HIV positive. You should apologize for making such outrageous statments. Secondly, you can come here. No one is going to give you an HIV test. All is well.

......As far as PayPal, open an account in a country where it works tied to a bank account there. Use

                      yoru ATM card in LOS to access it. Pretty simple.........

Paypal logs which ISP you log in on, so you need to log in from a paypal "legal" country

there are all kinds of ways to make money illegally selling bootleg stuff,

but when the shit hits the fan are you ready for the problems?

sorry not me....

You can log in from Thailand. I do it all the time also.

When I log in to PayPal from Thailand I always get locked out...

PayPal doesn't allow accounts for people in Thailand neither does Netteller. They check your IP.. I have to connect to a Terminal Server in Sweden and then access the Paypal account..

I think you have to fax PayPal some info and then they let you access the site. I use it all the time from LOS. No problem. NetTeller locked my account and told me that I have to be called at a US phone number by them for them to re-open the account and that I can not use it from THailand. if I walk across the border to Malaysia, then its suddenly fine...

Bob chittie:

I never said i was selling on ebay.

You have to concentrate on high-cost countries.

Northern-western europe.......splendid market.

Concerning language....you need someone to help you to set up an account, and show you how to work the site, without exactly know the language.

I never sold on ebay...its too big, and allso get a bad reputation, cuz all the bootleg stuff.

Concentrate on smaller, national auction sites, and you will see it works out.

Good luck.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. Small, national auction sites such as?

I even was there when they made a raid on couterfit stuff which meant that the owners who DIDN't pay tea money were raided while the shop next door kept on selling even when police were standing outside.

You are seriously misinformed here. The police do not decide who gets raided and who doesn't. The rights holders' representatives do. I perform this function quite often, and nothing stops me from nailing the shops I want to nail. The cops know if they tried any silly business, their names would be on the PM's desk first thing the next morning.

It may appear to an outsider that some shops are being targeted while others are spared, and that outsider might assume that the reason is tea money being paid to the cops. The fact is, when we stage a raid, we often cannot put together the manpower to take down every vendor in a certain shopping mall, or in a certain shopping area. We have to choose the largest, or the most notorious recidivists, or the ones that are otherwise giving us the most trouble. Also, we are often going out for a sole rights holder, whose product may be in one or two shops, while next door they may be selling 1,000 fake items of something we're not interested in.

I just love these farangs who think they know it all about everything.

You're doing a job. Fair enough.

Now, everyday all over Thailand the police drive by establishments that sell bootleg goods. Are you telling me that they don't arrest the owners and shut down the shop because the 'rights owners' haven't requested the assistance of the Thai police yet and therefore, there's nothing that can be done? Are you sure its not because the shops are owned by influential people or that the shops are paying the police? Are you serious?

Does that mean that if I steal a car in front of the police, they will wait for a complaint to be filed by the owner before running after me?

I have to admit, I am seriously confused by your line of reasoning here.

From a commercial point of view oversees e-baying or better say retail business in general can be barely profitable mainly because of high handling (including overseas payment transfer) and transportation cost usually eating the entire margin up and/or eventually resulting in incompetitive pricing. Also clients tend to be hesitant to shop in foreign countries because if there is a legale dispute across borders it is very difficult to get a poosible claim pushed through and receive compensation.

What do you make of this guy fro Norway who said he can make 50,000 to 70,000 baht a month selling on ebay?

Alcohol made him jump off a plane?

They rights owners employ lawyers and private detectives, such as myself, to track them down and coordinate arrests. We use a number of methods to identify and locate the perpetrators, which I am not at liberty to detail further. Let's just say that it is impossible to set up an eBay account, accept payments, and conduct email correspondence in a way that is completely confidential.

The criminal penalties are up to 800,000 baht fines and 8 years in prison. Foreigners can additionally be subject to deportation and blacklisting for life.

One eBay vendor -- in this case a Thai -- happens to be in line to have their home raided by the police tomorrow. Again, trust me -- some of these rights owners are very serious.

I don't mean to be rude, but do you sometimes feel a little silly tracking down these people when millions of copies of bootleg software are available in shops all over Thailand and the same police who are going to raid this poor guy's house don't do a thing, but collect tea money? Or do you feel differently about these cases since the software is going international?

They rights owners employ lawyers and private detectives, such as myself, to track them down and coordinate arrests. We use a number of methods to identify and locate the perpetrators, which I am not at liberty to detail further. Let's just say that it is impossible to set up an eBay account, accept payments, and conduct email correspondence in a way that is completely confidential.

The criminal penalties are up to 800,000 baht fines and 8 years in prison. Foreigners can additionally be subject to deportation and blacklisting for life.

One eBay vendor -- in this case a Thai -- happens to be in line to have their home raided by the police tomorrow. Again, trust me -- some of these rights owners are very serious.

Wow, thanks for the information. I guess ebay keeps all this kind of quiet, but I would have guessed that the media would have picked up on it. I have to confess, I have considered putting up a copy of Photoshop for auction from time to time for a little extra beer money, but I never got up the courage. I think I'll avoid considering it from now on. You'd think ebay would have stronger warnings on their site, not just 'multiple infractions may result in suspension'.

You could incorporate offshore with an offshore bank account in some countries that can't be touched... woops, I'm thinking about it again. Ok, I'll stick to the legal products.

Another piece of advice: make sure that whatever you are selling is legal. Don't even THINK of trying to sell pirated software, movies, music, clothing, watches, etc., etc...they WILL track you down and you WILL be arrested.

Does anyone know of this actually happening? As has been pointed out, if you go to ebay now, you will see pirated software. Are ebay sellers constantly being arrested?

Hi.

I am a guy from norway, just got back from thailand trying out the oppurtunitys of selling through internet auctions from thailand.

I might say it went pretty good.

I had a monthly income from my work around 50-75000 baht.

Its hard work, and i didnt take weekends off, but i guess with normal working days, you're income will be around 50.

To the issue about paypal.....you can operate through you're bank account in u.k. ... sell from u.k. and say that you're shipping time will be around 10 days.

There are quite cheep to send parcels from thailand.

My packages was from 200- 800 baht.. depends on the weight...and there will be no custom as long as you retail sell.... but not start to wholesale...it will be expencive to you're costumer.

I hope yhis will help you, and encourage you to give it a try

This is unbelievable to me. Not that I don't believe you, but it is quite impressive.

From the info you gave, it seems you are selling quite inexpensive items, is that correct? I don't suppose you want to share with the world what products from Thailand sell well on ebay?

Personally, i have never had good luck with ebay. Recently I had some extra stock in the US- 6 brand new rattan handbags. These exact same bags sell for $200 in boutiques in the US. i started them all at $25 and there wasn't a single bid. And that pretty much sums of my ebay experience.

Any advice?

couple of things.....

If I was sending in the post I would make sure there is some kind of tracking number ,

its seems that tracking numbers keep Postal workers (any country) more honest.

Getting paid is probably your biggest problem, are you going to put Thailand on your ebay auction location ?

not sure if that will be picked up by Paypal when it gets paid.

Would love to hear how it works out......

Not sure why everyone thinks you can't use your US PayPal account from Thailand. I believe they asked me to fax some documentation and that was that. Quite frequently, it shows me the Thai IP address that has been logging in and asks if that was me. And there's no problems whatsoever.

My concern is that people might not bid if they see that it must be shipped from Thailand. Maybe they don't trust international shippers or maybe they think its a scam or maybe they don't want to wait for the Thai post office to deliver.

......As far as PayPal, open an account in a country where it works tied to a bank account there. Use

yoru ATM card in LOS to access it. Pretty simple.........

Paypal logs which ISP you log in on, so you need to log in from a paypal "legal" country

there are all kinds of ways to make money illegally selling bootleg stuff,

but when the shit hits the fan are you ready for the problems?

sorry not me....

You can log in from Thailand. I do it all the time also.

I think many, many people have thought about ebay from Thailand. Shipping has always been the thing that has prvented me from getting involved, but I never considered using the post office. I suppose that most packages do get through.

As far as doing ebay from Thailand, technically its not proper, but I think you can get away with it no problem. I've never heard of post office people tipping off immigration. If you're concerned, just rotate post office branches. I've sent a few things by the post office and I don't recall filling out a form declaring what I was sending. Can anyone else comment on this?

I use PayPal (US account) from a Thai ISP no problem. And I have a PayPal ATM to withdraw cash directly or I can have it sent to my US Bank account and withdraw from there. PayPal does ask you very frequently if the recent log ins from these ISP's were you. But it works no problem.

You can get a non-im o visa at the right consulate. Or if you have the money, you can start a company here and do everything by the books.

At the end of the day though, if you find something that sells well for you, even on tourist visas, my personal opinion is that you've got nothing to worry about. You're spending time in Thailand doing product research for your company back home, while you're on extended vacation. Come on over.

When you register a new company, you must have x baht in regsitered capital. I imagine that this is proven with company bank statements. However, if the company is yet to be regsitered, the company can not have a bank account. And if the company does not have a bank account, how can they demonstrate that they have the capital? I'm sure I'm missing something as this is done everyday. Any insight is appreciated.

ok, to recap

i have now spoken to the thai consul in hull, UK.

they said i can only get a tourist VISA which is valid for 2 months at a time, then i have to go over border.

now, im still a bit confused here, does this 2 months give me a 30 day period after each 2 months? or is it purely the last border visit which gives me 30 days extra?

at the moment the way i see it is:

i arrive in thailand with my quadruple entry tourist visa. they stamp my passport.

i spend 2 months in chiang mai in my nice rented house. after the first 2 months i have to go to the boreder to get my passport re-stamped and my VISA checked or something.

then i can do this 3 more times before i have to come home.

so, at the end of my 8 months allowed (each re-entry is for 2 months) do i get an extra 30 days in thailand or do i have to come home then?

now, they also mentoned a non-immigration VISA which includes visiting friends/relatives. now the friend i am going with has an uncle living and working in pattaya. could we use him as a friend/relative and therefore get a non-immigration VISA to stay for a max of 12 months and only needing border crossing every 90 days?

if we could do this, would we have to live near him? or would we be ok just visiting him now and again?

thanks again, sorry if im being irritating!

If you got to the right consulate in the UK, you will get a non-im 'o' for 'Cultural Studies' or 'language studues' or the like. If you go to the wrong consulate, they only give you a tourist visa. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the UK.

What would have happened if the police/army had not have shot the insurgents to death,what would have been the outcome if they were allowed to continue their charge until within striking distance? ###### straight,there would still have been killings,but it would have been done with "just machettes and low grade firearms"instead of machine guns.

Maybe they would have been shot in the leg's, arrested, jailed, interrogated. May I remind you that MOST OF THEM DIDN'T HAVE GUNS! But you and others prefer to see them murdered and then you start reaching for justifications...

Many of them had gun wounds to the forehead,what you call that?"

Well at 100 meters I would call it fair shooting.

At 1000 meters I would call it real good shooting,,thats what I call "REAL GUN CONTROL"

Kinda sounds like someone is calling for a violent overthrow of this government.and I didn't think that was legal practise, I do know that the USA is a democracy and you can't do that shit there,so how are they getting by with it here?

And they bitchin about the ones killed,If you was standing by a guard house or what ever,and some <deleted> is running at you with machettes or swords or clubs or what ever,Wouldn't you shoot them? I know I sure would,they must have in mind to do something when they got there and I don't think I would like it at all.

God, your're naive. Shot at 100 meters in the center of the forehead, falls of the motorcycle and remains clutching his machete.

Thanks!

Marco...

23

Thanks for all the replies. Actually it is a laptop and it is a Dell. Its in an air conditioned room when I am here, but that means it is sitting in a hot room much of the time.

How do i clean out the fans?

Would most of you agree that lap tops should be shut down frequently?

What does one of these cooling sytems cost?

Thanks!

After reading some of the discussions on this forum, I decided to leave my computer on all the time. (Previously, I would shut down once a day). Now the keyboard often times seems excessively hot. Am I thinking too much? Does it matter? Both fans are working.

nice guy, I don't know the exact answers. I doubt there is an HIV black list, but perhaps another member with more experience in Thailand could shed some light on this. If you have doubts about using your health insurance, I would imagine that the larger hospitals like Bumrungrad would be very, very good at keeping your medical information quiet. I'm not sure what your financial situation is like, but it might be worth going to some of the better hospitals and seeing what a treatment plan will cost if you pay for it yourself.

What's important is that you get on the medication ASAP. As you probably know, if the sooner you start the better. Some people have even eradicated the virus from their blood to the point that it does not appear in blood tests. So there is hope. Do not despair. Perhaps in the short term you can pay for the treatment yourself until you are 100% sure that it is safe to use your insurance. I wish you all the best.

In general, how difficult is it for an average Thai woman to get a tourist visa to visit the US? Someone who doesn't have any real assets and has a basic education ie. finished high school or even has a college degree. Does the fact that she would be accompanied by her American boyfriend help her case? What exactly does the US embassy here want to see when they decide whether or not to grant a tourist visa to a Thai woman?