zeusbheld

Well yet another piece of worrying news regarding Tourist Visa's. As always i just wish Thailand would create a visa for those of us under the retirement age but with legitimate funds which they bring into Thailand and spend here...

I was going to be going to Penang next month for my new TV, but now ill be rethinking. Is Loas currently the recommended place?

Frustrating..

There's that familiar refrain again. It doesn't matter how much you spend, what counts is your willingness to make firm ties to Thai society and then an O or B visa can be yours with relatively little effort. Thinking your spending power is enough is not going to get you anywhere.

thank you for your kind, helpful and compassionate response to eek. you are an asset to this thread and forum

I'd say you're welcome, but you aren't. Forums are places to exchange responsible viewpoints, not conduits for dullard's weak attempts at sarcasm. If you have something of substance to offer, step up.

apparently, you haven't seen very many internet forums then. tilt on, Don Quixote. he goes off at you, you go off at him, guess what? lecture away; you'rre not above it anymore; you've joined the game too.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like nothing more than to see quality individuals from all nations making positive contributions to Thailand on a variety of levels. A visa based solely on some sort of means-testing would be one good alternative to the current "crisis". Buy a condo, put 10m baht in a government bank and forswear the interest and stay out of trouble with law, hey, I think this would be great. Think of it as a surety bond against misconduct.

means-testing would be a great idea, having ten million locked up in a thai bank account might be a bit excessive, but at least it would shut the "i'm so wealthy but i'm too young to retire" crowd up.

But given that the current options are really cut and dried, people choosing to be the well-to-do baby that gets thrown out with the human-waves-of-farang-scum bath water... well, hard to have much sympathy.

regardless, hard to find much patience when looking for specifics on a topic and having to wade through half a dozen "their country, their rules" posts. no s**t. i still fantasize that the whole point of a thai visa forum is for exchanging information on what the rules are and how they're being enforced. such information, in my opinion, can only be presented clearly and lucidly *without* moralizing and whingeing. it's far less entertaining than the polarized back-and-forth between the "my human rights have been violated" crowd and the "their country their rules, scofflaws begone" crowd but at least there *might* be some useful information changing hands from time to time. just a thought.

now on to an actual question: the impression i'm getting on tourist visas is that the magic number is three? then you are in danger of the red stamp, is that indeed the case?

Who else would live in Pattaya except a bum?

Lots of expats? Businessmen? People who like a beach?

no one who likes a beach could live in pattaya unless they're inordinately fond of sewage and garbage in the water (and the low visibility and dead coral that go with it).

rather, people who deeply hate beaches might want to live there... and gloat, having seen one rather brutally mishandled.

it's also possible to get a 30 day extension to a tourist visa, i forget the exact cost i think 1900 baht, 2 photos and copies of all your documents.

and i've heard it is possible to get permission to leave and reenter on a tourist visa but i've never tried it, and don't know what to do to get permission.

no guarantees of course but i've gotten away with it.

they didn't charge the (one day) overstay and didn't ask any questions.

wow over one thousand readers on this post....we all care about the baht so much.

when we have to convert money from other currencies from time to time... yeah. we care. not surprising really, is it?

Its almost like we can't wait to see the @rse fall out of the US economy... Almost...

I love it when there are 2 dollars to the pound, makes conversion easier and it reminds me of when I were a lad up in't north!

them were some grand days...

Loz

Yes but if if goes too far there could be a very dark side to all this

Extremely dark. Exports to the US would dry up too.

which would in turn decimate many asian economies. including china... with so many major economies tanking at once, good luck to any that think their country is immune...

PS at present, it's a bit premature for all the doom and gloom though.

In other words, I may simply go to the Thai embassy in my country and apply for a 60 day tourist visa and extend it by another 30 days in Thailand, and once this 90 days is over, I may repeat the process?

near as i can tell as long as you use visas rather than stamps you can repeat as often as you want. been doing a combo of visas and stamps since the new rules started (i don't want to get a work visa because well... the sponsors might expect me to actually work).

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

I don't understand these three paragraphs at all. Would somebody be so kind as to clarify this clarification for me?

this is just my read, and in NO way official. it seems to be saying:

within a 180 day period, you may be granted 90 days on 30 day stamps. it is still at the discretion of the officer, but you can come and go as you please, the total won't exceed 90 days granted. he also explicitly says that if you haven't used up your 90 days, the immo officer CAN grant you a full 30 days even if it takes you beyond 180.

in other words, you've been in thailand 60 days on stamps, you show up at immo, day 179. the immo officer likes your face, can give you 30 days. BUT as always, and as it was before the rule change, it's up to the discretion of the officer.

hopefully i haven't confused things further, but that's my take.

The Deputy Prime Minister then visited entertainment venues along Patpong district on Silom Road and reports finding no illegal activities.

so this basically means if it happens at patpong it has the deputy PM's blessing? can i get the 500 baht i back from my no seatbelt ticket then? i wanna put it in my louie futon wallet.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Social Development and Human Security Paiboon Wattanasiritham (ไพบูลย์ วัฒนศิริธรรม), conducted an inspection of pornographic vendors at Pantip Plaza and instructed officers to conduct a sting operation resulting in the apprehension of 1 VCD vendor, along with the seizure of 1 pornographic VCD, 30 MP3 discs, and 2 bags of marijuana.

I love it. They found more dope than they did porn CDs. Must have looked real hard, eh?

The Deputy Prime Minister then visited entertainment venues along Patpong district on Silom Road and reports finding no illegal activities. Mr. Paiboon reported that youths under the age of 20 years were not found inside local entertainment venues and bar proprietors and their staff were cooperative.

Would it be cynical to suggest that possibly perhaps maybe somebody had advance notice of this visit...?

That says it all.

I can hardly attempt to buy a computer game with my family without having touts try to push everything from straight sex to animal sex vcds on me where I shop, and yet no police raid has ever found anything there.

just in case the deputy pm is reading these forums...

i think what he needs is a farrang to use as bait in a sting operation. ever eager to aid the cause of law and order, i cheerfully volunteer for the job. the deputy PM can message me to discuss the special visa terms that will be granted for my distinguished service in the name of justice and morality...

I believe that it is really important for everyone on the forums to understand the situation we are now in in Thailand. Too often I read posts here and see such divisivenes with people trying to put down others who are in different situtions here, but we need to realize that in the end we are all in the same boat here; we are all foreigners and in some ways fundamentally outsiders no matter how much we try to conform to the norms here.

Very true. The rules are changing rapidly and at the end of the day we're all foreigners. No room for high horses here.

This must be one of the most overused and condescending statements used in T.V.

Someone else suggesting we just bend over and take it.

Naka

seems to me that the litany of "their country, their rules" combined with the BS about how if the rules don't work for you, you must be some sort of ne'er-do-well, is by far the most over-used and condescending cliche on thaivisa. gold medalist by far. even though in the endless discussion of visa issues, cliches are generated at blistering speed, it's still tipped to retain its title for the foreseeable future.

nice detailed report OP. with enough of the right detail one of the thaivisa mandarins can swoop in and diagnose the cause of your misfortune (nice diagnosis Lopburi)

as to toxie being anti-foreigner and the new government being pro-foreigner, ain't exactly true. toxie was first and foremost a politician and was playing to the cheap seats (there is a significant grass-roots demographic that is quite xenophobic). the new guys ain't exactly rushing in to embrace foreigners, and have taken a few shots at screwing things up further for foreigners. most likely for the same reason. i find it highly unlikely that the nice new guys will clean up all these nasty visa rules ina farrang friendly way. the cliches got something right about it though--we can whinge all we want but at the end of the day if they decide to make things worse for us farrangs, ain't much we can do about it.

I love soi dogs.

I'm pretty sure that this is against the law in most countries..

technically yes...

but a dog's gotta make a living, ya know?

Most of the soi dogs I've encountered are friendly and don't even bark at you...they just more or less wander on by. Some have snapped a bit at me but not with any real effort. I had a few of them bark aggressively and approach me at which point I stomped my foot and picked up a rock or a stick and that scared them off. Unlike some people's pet dogs, most soi dogs are cowards won't get really nasty towards you unless you go after them first. The dogs that are the biggest threat are those monster Rottweilers that people keep. Most people here tend to keep their dogs locked up behind a gate unlike many folks where I'm from. That is one thing dog owners do well here...keep those nasty dogs behind a fence.

i've identified 3 separate packs, many of which are fully feral (born feral), where i live in thonburi.

some of the alpha dogs start thinking they're tough, but mostly they just bark at and bite other dogs. some are downright friendly, even feral ones. soi dogs are like anyone/anything else; few are all bad--or all good. most look fairly well disease ridden, and are quite likely a danger to a) other pets and humans.

when you watch how dogs live on their own, the lifestyle choices of rats sure look dignified: a) they're quieter, and for the most part cleaner (dogs and rats may be even on communicable diseases) i've never seen an alpha rat bully the rest of the rats for the sheer hel_l of it.

PS as for why they're not barking at you, they're probably saving their voice for 4am prime time.

People love them because they are communal pets, and mostly very sweet.

the rats and the roaches? the roaches for sure, but sadly, we don't get too many rats even though we live by the river.

I love soi dogs, and consider them one of the more charming things about the city. For the most part, they appear fairly healthy and happy.

let me guess... you live in a high-rise

Maybe one of those dogs you are so quick to condemn was your mother in a previous life.

well then if the (possibly rabid) dog that just bit a five year old child was my mum in a previous life, i think it'd be a great favor to her hurrying her on to the next one. she'd thank you for it later no doubt.

i know bugger all about teaching english but in 20 years as programmer and manager in the computer business, i can tell you there is no correlation betweeen college degrees and ability to do a good job.

also, why do they equate not having a degree with pedophiles and criminal behavior! what's the basis for that.

steve

while in general degrees don't tell you diddly about a person's real abilities (and it's more true with programmers than most field "requiring" degrees), and true also that degrees are a crutch for managers who don't know enough about the actual work to hire intelligently based on ability, i'd have to disagree when it comes to teaching english--especially teaching english to adults.

adults learn languages differently than children. children are built to receive language; by the time you're an adult you have to leanr a language through focused effort. i don't know about other native speakers, but for americans a college degree (ANY college degree) means you have had at least two semesters of college-level english.

now let's imagine two identical twins who are both brilliant speakers and writers of english. one went to college, the other didnt. both are, for whatever reason, enthusiastic about teaching english in thailand for next to no money (get your mind out of the gutter, maybe chang's their favorite beer!) the one who went to college will at least have been exposed to methods of teaching advanced english to adults, and concepts like parts of speech, etc. this gives him a headstart on teaching english to adults. the deep structure of grammar is the same for all languages, but the details differ. most adults need some formal education in the grammatical particulars to learn a new language.

therefore, IMO, a degree requirement is more likely to lead to better teachers. it's not the same as programmers; picking up a book on teaching english is not the same as picking up a book on C++, and college-level english courses are much more relevant to teaching english than all the theoretical crap comp sci students are burdened with is to actually programming.

short version: i think it's reasonable to expect english teachers to have a college degree. (good luck to thailand attracting them, though, with what they're payin' 'em)

The fact we are native English speakers does not make us experts in the language.

When I am asked to teach English I draw the analogy, that I know how to drive a car, but that does not make me a good motor mechanic.

Secondly being a teacher is a special skill in communication.

I have seen many good technical guys fail utterly when asked to stand up and teach about their subject.

DEFINITELY! spot on. hurrah and huzzah.

(nothing to add, your post was so good i wanted to quote it just to repeat it!)

The use of agents to obtain visas has always been illegal. The authorities are just applying the law.

The fact that you are using an agent is suspicious in the first place.

If you are staying in Thailand legally you have nothing to worry about. If you are working and have the requisite work permit the visa is automatic. If you are married to a Thai you can get a Thai wife visa. For this you need to have 400k thai baht in a thai bank account. If you don't have that, then tough luck.

I get sick and tired of reading about expats trying to buck the system and then complaining when they get caught.

You are living in a foreign country so abide by the rules and the law. If you do not like it get out and do not spoil it for those of us who stay within the law.

do you have any other crayons in your box besides black and white? just askin'.

I agree with earlier posts....why does an innocent account of a troubling event shared with other expats turn into a name calling, micro-managing, condescending character assassination? Anyone who says they have never withheld the truth from an official of any kind if they thought it would get them in trouble are not being honest with themselves. For my sixpenthworth I believe the OP is brave to post his experience on here only in the knowledge that our forum consists of a few people only willing to pull their post apart and suggest how they should run the rest of their lives. Good informative post and I will take my own lessons from it as others might to.

May I suggest they do it out of boredom?

[sandy]

ah. they're bored so they might as well bore other TV readers.

the most utterly useless posts that recur on TV are the inevitable "you got what you deserved" posts that follow anyone's story if they made even the slightest questionable post. hope those 'got what you deserved' people aren't buddhists they'll come back as dung beetles. probably still be smug and self-righteous though.

i, for one, find stories like the OP's interesting, even if there's NO chance i'd repeat any mistakes they're useful as cautionary tales.

i've been writing a book for the last year or so, with about 7-8 months to go. it'll be interesting to see if i get tossed out. i usually fly, and get tourist visas, rather than 30 day stamps.

(i dont expect jk rowlings' sales numbers or anything even close, and dont even have a publisher yet, however).

you may well end up on a watch list in china, if they notice it. they do allow journalists etc in china last i heard it hasn't gotten all that restrictive--unless you're a chinese journalist, which is a hard life.

almost certainly it would be no problem, but if your'e worried about it then you can most likely get (perfectly legally) a second passport. many people who have to visit both israel and other middle eastern countries do this, as many countries will exclude you if you have an israel stamp on your passport. i believe that even malaysia exclude you.

assumption definitely has the better reputation, both here and abroad.

my source might be biased though, my gf did her undergrad at ABAC.

ps, snark...

if you do end up kissing stray dogs, for god's sake be selective. some soi dogs look like they have leprosy or something...

Thry getting that kind of service in any other country.

very cool. i have been treated very well by thai immigration everywhere except the consulate in new york, but then they deal with new yorkers all day don't they.

believe it or not, i got a similarly high level of service... in shanghai of all places.

i lost my passport in shanghai a couple of years ago, so i had to get a new one, get a new visa, etc. in time to make a flight.

the US consulate was predictably officious and annoying. i patiently, politely kept asking 'isn't there anyone else i can talk to?' and got kicked upstairs to the 2nd-in-charge, who was very personable and expedited the case.

surprisingly, the service i got from the chinese immigration office was much better, and i didnt have to bribe anyone (a little bird in beijing told me most expats in china make their visa runs via bribe). the english speaking girl (there was a total of one) swiftly handled my case, cut out a lot of the bureacratic fat, and even took the time to make fun of my signature (which deserves ridicule). very service-oriented, although i suspect it was the individual and not a matter of policy.