zeusbheld

If they were one third of the way smart, they would simply let the falang fo to immig and pay a few hundred B to extend.

Instead of causing more traffic, more wasted fuel [so much for "energy policy"] and making the Burmese and Lao rich.

I guess we file this under "not smart enough."

On the contary, The Thais are being very smart. A poster mentioned about the advertising abroad, this is exactly the point. Thailand wants foreign people in thailand, or rather they want foreign investment....the average sex tourist who does a 30 day run isnt the sort of person that LOS wants.

On the other hand, a businessman who wants to legitimately set up a company that pays taxes and employs Thai personnel is welcome via a work permit.

I can see their point. Someone who has been in Thailand for 5 years on continious 30 day stamps does not bring money into the country and in all honesty is more than likely working illegaly....

The smaller issues is that of those people under 50 who have more than enough money to support themselves but are not ledgable for a retirement visa - This is where the Thai's should change the law.....but at the end of the day, its THEIR country.

oh yes, they're being sooooo smart. they want foreign investment. that's why they summarily cancelled investment visas (with three weeks warning). at this point cambodia is looking more stable than thailand for investment. and that's pretty sad.

preahko

don't let's forget the investigation of foreign big money like tesco and carrefour, and the coup rumors that have been circulating for a while.

thailand at this point is becoming less and less attractive to investors of all sizes, and TRT's genius protectionist moves aren't helping.

at the end of the day it is their country, they can do what they want, including run it into the ground.

The big impacts of this may be that it plays well in the short-term and the long term.

In the short-term, it is music to the ears of Thai voters, who, for many reasons, don't like Western 'sexpats'.

In the long-term (say, fifteen years) it give a message now to Western and Asian middle-class couples, aged 45 to 50 now, that (having got rid of the sleaze) Thailand is going to be a much nicer place to go for holidays, and to retire to.

That is good for Thailand, as such couples bring 'social capital', as well as 'monetary capital' to the country that they retire to.

In the middle-term, there may be a bit of lost business for breweries, bar girls, and border-run operators. But I don't think the Government will lose much sleep over that.

i seriously doubt it will put a dent in the sex trade. sleazy hotels like the die nasty are full of sex tourists who don't stay long enough to make visa runs. expect that to continue.

you are horribly naive if you think it will 'get rid of the sleaze.' closing nana, soi cowboy and patpong *might* get rid of some of the sleaze, but significant portions of the sex tourist population would probably start frequenting the huge massage parlors and little karaoke joints where the thai people go. closing nana, soi cowboy and patpong might help with the APPEARANCE of sleaze, but prostitution is built into thai society, and there are tons of asian sex toursists as well. i doubt it will make a dent in the sleaze.

what it will affect is mid-range rentals. how much, remains to be seen, but bangkok real estate is hardly blooming, unless you count the post-97 blossoming of unfinished residential towers. it could potentially put a dent in real estate.

also, let's face it, we have NO IDEA how many farrangs make visa runs or what their numbers are compared to people with work permits etc. of those people, we have NO IDEA how many will find a way to get a visa and stay, under the new rules. if someone has any numbers please post 'em but i havent seen ANY, EVER.

if the thai economy goes down the toilet in the near future, it probably won't be from the people whom the new rule affects leaving. it'll probably be from big foreign money passing on thailand because of moves like the investigation of carrefour, lotus etc. and a general perception on their part that it's an unstable place to invest. so the economy may sour regardless of whether the visa runners stay.

John, fair enuff mate! Your guesses are as good as anys. I just think too many people on ALL sides have too much to lose for there to be a coup. Hope I am right Cheers!

that hasn't stopped too many coups, but i hope you're right too.

I do not understand all this trouble.

Make a legal Visa - and stay in Thailand as long as you want legally.

Non Immigrant -B- = Set up a company, apply for a work permit, and get a 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You are older than 50 year - you deposit THB 800.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

Non Immigrant -O- = You marry a Thai lady - you deposit THB 400.000 in a Thai Bank - and get your 1 year visa

You not have to marry your gf - hundreds of Issaan ladies marry you only for visa matters - and your problem is solved too.

The sham marriage thing really sounds like a recipe for disaster. For one the Govt says its going to start checking some of the them. Randomly I guess. Also whats to stop a Issan girl etc from extorting money from you or turning you into authorities for brownie points or something?

yeah i'd be more worried about the fake wife, her family, her father's gambling debts, the chronic need for buffalo repair kits (and SUVs, big screen TVs, etc)...

really bad idea.

immigration's foot up your ass will be the least of your troubles.

... because of this exodus ...

Hi John K,

Please stop giving false news from your imagination !

i was under the impression that the thread was FOR speculating about the potential impact of the rule changes?

From what we know until now, the only changes will be these ones :

- a lot of people living in Thailand will have to ask for a Tourist Visa when they used to make simple Visa Run.

- a few people making very frequent short stays in Thailand could have now problem to make them.

Nothing more.

Everything else is pure speculation and talking about Exodus is ridiculous

you, too, are giving 'false news from your imagination.' which is fine, that's what this thread is about, but if i may make a small request: don't bother pissing and moaning about other people speculating while you're speculating in a thread dedicated to speculation. please? even if *your* speculation turns out to be correct it's still speculation, unless you are, in fact, GOD.

Today's backpackers are tomorrows movers, shakers and captain's of industry.

The mere fact they have the guts to travel the way they do, and on a limited budget

sets them apart from

the ordinary,unimaginative, probably much less well educated joe's.

I did the Cape Town to Cairo overland thing in the 70's when I was 19. And I

did it on my lonesome.

Naka.

agree. one thing i notice is that backpacker types tend to have a lot more education than the average sex tourist (met both on the jack's golf visa run bus, of which i made 3 runs. ah, the memories). education doesn't guarantee success but it can certainly increase your odds.

Third: Non of this has hit the Thai press. News like this should be front page. Translation keeping the Thais blind.

according to my gf the whole thing is a) politically motivated, in order to play to TRT's (nationalistic and somewhat xenophobic) constituency at election time. the fact that it didnt make the thai papers is not surprising to her--according to her, thais generally don't read the paper, except for that one with all the murders, accidents, and celebrities. TRT will talk it up in campaign rallies. little or no mention in the papers, but hyping at political rallies, is standard operating procedure for election-motivated policy moves. some other thais i've talked to have made similar comments.

also, thais in general that i know are VERY pissed off about farrangs working here and paying no taxes, regardless of their political views. this policy seems absurd if it is intended to address that, but a) the laws are already on the books, so they can move fast (in time for election) and it doesn't matter if they are really doing something, it's about the perception of the average voter.

Fifth: It has been suggested that Thaksin would stage a coup if he felt he was going to be forced out, so the military moved all he key man to impotent posts to remove that possibility. Thaksin just put them back in posts that he could take over the military.

there has not only been a rumor of this for a while, but the king himself (according to my gf, i was watching at the time but i don't speak thai) mentioned a plotted coup in a speech. the good news is it likely would be non-violent.

i doubt that is the motive for this particular policy however. more likely is electioneering. i'll start believing it's a clearout of foreigners when they start changing *all* the policies.

my personal opinion is that the possibility of a coup is still very high, but won't happen until the king dies of natural causes. most coup rumors i've heard of say as much.

my personal opinion is that this move has little to do with that, and is just part of the general 'genius' for social reform TRT exhibited when outlawed selling beer in lotus in the afternoon.

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

This is the bottomline, even when the head Immigration guy says it starts Oct 1st. The officer can use their discretion. Just like certain Embassys/ Consulates are known to be more liberal and others stricter. This may be the case at certain Immigration checkpoints., some will be known more smoother than others because they interpret the law different.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

i guess there's an upside for this website--lots of traffic as people try to figure out which ports of entry to avoid...

stay tuned, kids, this game is far from over...

I don't like to spread unfounded rumors, but the immi officers at the border are the one who make the decision. Let me just say, there is a supervisor at least one border post who is saying that when they decide to let you enter or not on a 30 day permit, it will be based on how much time you have been in Thailand in the last 6 months, whether that is on 30 day permits or tourist visas, it doesn't matter. This come directly from the mouth of a supervisor at a popular southern port of entry.

...but you did anyway !

totster

wondering was this supervisor the same guy who put his poodle in the microwave...

<<note to self: avoid southern ports of entry, especially popular ones>>

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

i'm not sayin' weakiepedia is authoritative, but they *did* corroborate my impression that 'developing country' is a newer way to say 'third world country.'

you apparently know better, so correct their article, please.

I would also state that if they don't make it clearer, some Immigration officials will be counting days and other will be counting stamps at other checkpoints.

my expectation is that, regardless of how clear they make their statement, or how the policy mutates, some immigration officials will be counting days, and others stamps...

I will believe it when I see it (hear it here). We won't really know for sure until after Oct 1 and after people with 3 30 days after Oct 1 go to Penang and try to get a tourist visa. Then, we will see for sure. With the fickleness of this new change, how could anyone confidently plan their lives based on the comments of this one official?

this is thailand; i'm not sure i'll believe it even AFTER i see it.

regardless of what official says what, and regardless of whether they issue back to back visas in october, it's still a wait-and-see period.

do let's keep in mind that there's a tug-of-war going on in thai politics and this policy is just a minor sidebar, and thus very much subject to change at any given time.

Yeah I had noted that.. I also wonder if tourist visa's will have such trouble free / standardized 30 day extensions ??

Would put the cat firmly back among the pigions if your 3x 30 days visa runs was then shifted to a 60 day tourist visa but you couldnt extend it !! Would leave a big 30 day chunk in each 6 months hanging !!

while a press conference quoted elsewhere had them saying explicitly that it is possible to stay indefinitely because they would still issue back-to-back tourist visas, and in several other places they've stated that the basic rules for tourist visas haven't changed, that doesn't mean they won't, in practice, turn a lot more people away. this would be one way of doing it. if you have to fly somewhere every 60 days, or if you're alternating and have gaps, that would be a little bit disruptive toward those trying to work, although there are easier ways to stop illegals from working.

however, i suspect that a.) they'll issue back to back single-entry tourist visas and b.) they'll extend visas, because it puts money directly in the gov't's pockets (and most likely more than they'd collect in income taxes).

... within six months period, the holder of passport ... shall be permitted to enter Thailand several times. Each permitted time shall not be exceeding 30 days period, and the total period shall not be exceeding 90 days from the first day that the passport holder arrived in Thailand.

short version: it certainly appears that, based on the wording of this document, frequent weekenders and people who use the airport as a hub are safe.

Hi,

I am not a native english speaker and only learned english long time ago as a second language at school, but I do not understand the above rule as you

Each time you come in Thailand (for 1 day, 1 week or 30 days) you get an autorisation to stay for "a permited time of 30 days".

They clearly say the total period of permited times shall not be exceeding 90 days, not the total period you stayed in Thailand

So after 3 entries you got your 90 days and can't enter again without a visa... or a long delay.

I think they used "several" and not "three" because there are cases where you only get an autorisation to stay for 15 days, not 30, and then you could have up to 6 entries for 90 days.

I think too many people read what they would like see, not what is written...

Pattaya46

now, reread what you just wrote please:

Each time you come in Thailand (for 1 day, 1 week or 30 days) you get an autorisation to stay for "a permited time of 30 days".

They clearly say the total period of permited times shall not be exceeding 90 days, not the total period you stayed in Thailand

your rephrasing of it still says each time you stay you are permitted to stay 30 days, not that if you stay one day it counts as 30. the original statement said "not exceeding 30 days."

however, one thing that should be obvious to everyone in all this, is that they're leaving a lot to the discretion of the individual officers. however, to claim that the above statement clearly says or even strongly hints that they're not counting days but rather each entry counts as 30, is patently absurd. if you want, and believe that i just desperately want to believe they're not going to turn away weekenders (even though i am not one, and don't really care that deeply if they screw tourism by turning them away) i can forward it to a few dozen native speakers who don't give a shit about thailand, let alone their visa policy, and see how they interpret it.

however, even if they all agree that the stated policy clearly says your total stay regardless of number of entries cannot exceed 90 days/6 months, that doesn't mean they can't or won't turn people away after 3 entries.

while it may be a poor translation, i suspect the ambiguity is deliberate--leaving it at the discretion of immigration officers as to how many entries to allow.

Look at it from their point of view sitting on the floor eating their daily staple of rice and ??? while you and your high horse are deciding what you'd like to eat tonight.

controversially , some might see it as a comeuppance for all the double pricing , bill padding , short changing , falang..you pay , baht bus extortion that the tourist/visitor has had to endure whilst here.

consider it a simple balancing of the books.

whilst i know that life for many thais is a daily fight for survival , i also know that there is no shortage of jobs in this country for those who want to work.

there are too many in the tourist business who just want to rake in the maximum amount of money for the least amount of effort , some will now have to adopt a different attitude.

i think it is delusional to see it as justice for anyone, even if incidentally some people who deserve it get shat upon. if fact, even if almost all of the people who get shat upon deserve it, it is still nothing more than politicking to curry favor at election time through nationalist, protectionist immigration and economic policies.

PS keep your eyes open, the next speeding bus may be heading toward you--anything may change, it's TRT pushing for all this, and TRT doesn't stand for 'we love farrangs'. and contrary to what the various and sundry windbags claim, it doesn't stand for 'we love the GOOD farrangs' either.

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

LMAO.

No, I like the view from my high horse, thank you.

if this is what it takes to make you feel important and special, knock yourselves out. don't let anyone tell you that feeling special because of your work permit may be indicative of a hollow, petty existence, just enjoy it, shine on you crazy diamonds. just try not to trip over your bloated sense of your own superiority, k?

I think I fall into a category mentioned above, where I work outside Thailand, but come back into the country every other month, for about 25 days. ...

Is this not EXACTLY what they are trying to stop, LIVING and WORKING in Thailand, not paying tax, no work permit and 15 years on 30 days stamps?

apparently your skill at reading EXACTLY equals your skill at using the quote boxes so generously provided by the web forum--that is to say, nonexistent.

I have read so many of these threads in the past few days, the message is so, so clear - get legal and get a visa, or end stay in LOS.

given your dazzling display of reading skills (see above) i doubt you could accurately glean a message from reading *anything*.

Try being a Thai going overseas (especially UK, US and Australia) and just 'living' there. These three consulates are merciless, I know from personal experience sponsoring partner to go to UK, we had to show an opngoing relationship (2 years), land titles in Thailand, money in the bank, paid airfares, that we had accomodation in the UK, that she had previously travelled with me (yes, they checked my passport and hers for corresponding stamps!!!!!).

is your girlfriend a bargirl? mine got a 10-year tourist visa to visit the US quite easily, on her own, before she was my girlfriend. biggest challenge was the long line apparently.

Just in case anyone thinks I am harsh here,

not harsh, just a bit dim.

I make a trip once a year to the UK to renew my NON - B, even although I have a REAL work permit, with thai employees, and I am paying tax, and so are the employees as well as social fund, etc.

what if they decide that the real problem is foreigners *working* in thailand? or married to thais? or foreign part-ownership of chain stores (oops they're already playing with that one). i for one eagerly await your law-and-order rant on that occasion.

So, no excuses, it can be done. Lots of others on this forum are doing exactly the same, complying with the law and applying for and receiving legal visas.

please ACTUALLY READ the posts you pretend to reply to, k? no excuses, it can be done. having mastered the visa process you obviously have the raw brain power to do so, even if you keep it well hidden.

Also, read the comment from Immigration carefully - there is no problem getting a visa in your home country. That is what they are trying to force, not Penang, KL, Vientiane, etc HOME COUNTRY, that way the 'bad guys' don't get back out!!!!!

so what exactly are pseudo-moralists like you gonna do if and when you find out that this new policy is all election-time glad-handling and that the 'perpetual tourists' are given a workaround by the thai government? will the thai government have let you down? don't worry, it's obvious from the charm you've exhibited here that you'll still find a way to feel superior.

just don't base it on your reading comprehension, thanks, bye.

when children observe adult behaviour patterns on a regular basis it becomes the 'norm' to them.

a child who watches adults smoke cigarettes all day every day will see nothing wrong in adopting that behaviour.

a young girl exposed regularly to the antics of beer bar greeters or go go girls will see that as normal female behaviour.

kids seeing adults in beer bars or pubs sucking on beer bottles all day will have the wrong message imprinted into their heads and when those adults are falangs then the association becomes extremely negative indeed.

these places should be away from schools , preferably strictly zoned , and not open to the street.

Tax - last I checked thats what Parents are for - teach their lil ones. Do as you are told, not what you see.

Anyways I don't think most people who frequent those spots are up at 9am - more like afternoon.

Well that just doesn't happen that much in reality.If a young kid sees this type of thing all the time, they can be told untill they are black and blue in the face and many will still end up thinking that this behaviour is ok.

it amazes me that adults assume children are completely incapable of thinking for themselves. children are smarter than adults give them credit for. more often than not, they are smarter than adults.

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

It is simply the honest and obvious truth, icecubes, regardless of how much you and other prudes would like to deny it.

you imply that IF ones moves to thailand THEN one is a sex tourist.

you also say that martin is a prude. IF martin has moved to thailand AND martin is a prude, then it follows...

that martin is both a sex tourist and a prude?

looks like while you were over here chasing tail, you got distracted by chasing your own tail. i need another tylenol, you're makin' me dizzy.

I suspect this will post be shouted down and ridiculed because so much has gone before this and so many have staked their forum name on their theory,

well if anyone who's not making a living from it puts a lot of stock in their forum name they really need to consider finding a more rewarding hobby.

but the reps were legit and they were very clear. Maybe the system will break down after a few months, who knows, but this is meant to be the current state of affairs.

So the good news is: It's business as usual folks. Now isn't everyone sorry they blew heart valves over this?

this is not surprising, but it may change yet again. it's all a political shell game--first, they 'get tough' by playing to the cheap seats, then they backpedal to something more practical when the heat's on (from all the people who stand to lose money, probably).

when my gf heard about it she said that the policy was just politics and would blow over.

i wouldn't be surprised if they start issuing multiple entry visas in penang again after they're done politicking.

thanks for reporting!

CAN ANYONE IN HERE POSSIBLY ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE ??

do these new changes mean that everyone will have to go back to there home country to get a visa for thailand ???? have other countries including neigboring countries to thailand stopped issuing visas ??????????? that is my question...... can anyone answer it please.

Nope Pattaya Girl, that was just scare mongering by A Traveler who is gloating over these new regs and gets sadistic enjoyment over the sufferings of others because his "current" visa situation is under control. When the immi whip inevitably comes down on him, aint nobody gonna care so he'll change his ID and start his whining. Someone like this is a simple troll trying to get people like you upset, Pattaya Girl. Please put him on ignore for peace of mind. He cares about no one but himself

I don't understand you comment here. The point about the possibility of individuals having to apply at their 'home' Thai embassy has been in place for over 30 years and has been used by the authorites in the past. These are facts.

I have made it very clear that there is no indication as to the intention of the authorites to use this facility, however to ignore its existence would IMHO be foolish in the extreme.

The forum is supposed to allow the dissemination of information so intelligent people may take rational viewpoints about their situation.

With your permission I shall continue to contribute in that spirit.

Regards

nah don't wait for permission, just carry on...

I personally think that the staying 90 days is the answer to the question. I can't believe that a businessman who comes to Thailand every month and only stays a few days each trip would be denied entrance after 3 trips within three months. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

or the weekend golfers. they make a big fuss on the immigration site about how much discretion immigration officers will have.

this to me implies that while they have the regulations to hang you on if they want to get rid of you, it is unlikely that they'lll count days, or limit weekenders to 3 entries of 3 days each. at airports, they'll most likely flip through your passport to get a sense of whether you appear to be living in thailand and if not, they'll wave you through, no pompem.

a potentially big problem for thailand is not necessarily the impact of the regulations themselves, but in terms of lost revenue from tourism and investment if the western media run with these announcements and thailand is percieved, rightly or wrongly, as 'unstable.'

)

How about those who have Fake marriages? I am sure that is against the law.

Their entry as a tourist might be OK but as soon as they do the other things, they are breaking Laws.

maybe i'm missing an essential point here, but why the f*** would anyone with a fake marriage be staying in thailand as a tourist????

please upgrade your crayon box for future philosophizing, crayola make a box with 64 colors, a massive upgrade on your current black and white palette.

Well.. the new rulus are not much different then the Schengen Visa.

We still can travell to THL, but the Thai can't to a Schengen country without filling in a truckload of paperwork, prove of (sufficient) income, prove residentie (hotel:etc) copy of return ticket. etc etc, How about the U.S?? even worse.

If you like to stay longer, do it the proper and legal way....I know it's a lot of hasle aswell, but worth it and if you not want to put your energy in aplying for the right visa then...........you probably have no bussyniss LOS. then ......?????

...

Think twice before posting nonsense like this. ...

or, even once.

you're not comparing apples to apples, you're comparing apples to tractors. the only similarity is both can sometimes be found on an apple farm.

Great news.

This should cut down the numbers of Farang dregs, dross and undesirables who are taking advantage of the lax Thai visitor laws, scamming the system and up to all kinds of illegal activities.

These scum are not community minded people and do not create any benefits for Thailand whatsoever, including the illegal business controllers, bars, pimps etc.

Hopefully this new ACT will make the legitimate Farang long stay residents, (Retired, marrieds, students, skilled workers) presents more valued in Thailand and pave the way for decent Farang communities, especially in Chiang Mai.

As for rest,

Good Ridends

if you reallly believe it will make a difference toward ridding the country of 'dregs, dross and undesirables, then good luck on that. to me that seems horribly naive, to the point of delusion.

the people it will affect are the ones who followed the rules as they were up to now and were just looking for an affordable, comfy place to park on the beach and avoid working, possibly indefinitely.

the 'bad' people will just overstay or use other means.

all you guys who fancy yourselves "law and order" types, then try feebly to compare thai immigration regulations with, say, the US, are overlooking the obvious--the US has very strict immigration laws, but neighborhoods like Brighton Beach in new york are chock full of russian gangsters. do you really think their visas are in order?

don't let that interfere with your self-righteous hot air, though.

by the way, 'ridends' is spelled R I D D A N C E, unless you're coining a new word by combining RID and END.