RamenRaven

Just now, BritManToo said:

Because they can.

In the West, we're used to the notion of romantic autumn leaves. No one would ever think of regularly burning autumn leaves every few days. Why would anyone do such a thing?

 

Do Thai households burn leaves simply to keep their gardens looking clean and leafless? I'm trying to understand the logic behind it.

 

Not complaining but just want to understand the reasons behind burning fallen leaves and branches. I grew up as a city dweller and had never seen intentional plant matter burning (except for campfires) until I came to Thailand.

 

I heard that burning is supposed to improve soil fertility, but I always see Thais burning leaves and branches in little piles. It's not swidden farming meant to fertilize soil since the ashes are not spread all over the orchards and gardens. You just see very concentrated piles of gray ashes by the roadside.

 

Why burn dry leaves every few days? I don't see anything wrong with leaving fallen leaves out the way they are.

Balsamic vinegar and red wine vinegar, which you can easily get at Makro or Rimping, go well with just about any Thai "yam" (spicy veggie salad/rice) dish, or even khao man gai.

 

I've often seen Thais eat pizza with som tam as a side dish.

 

6 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

French fries with pla muk todd, mu todd, or garlic shrimp, beer and a movie.

Vanilla ice cream with small lump of durian, blended or smashed. 

Most Westerners end up with gag reflexes when they try durian.

 

You must be hardcore.

34 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

None of those dishes sound good. I dont think fusion food works.

 

Rather have the real thing. Some Pizza joints have tried it and failed.

Sticky rice burgers at 7-Eleven are good.

 

And so is Khao Pat American (American fried rice).

Thais would sometimes ask me if American fried rice was indeed popular in America - which is like Americans asking if Panda Express and orange chicken are popular in China.

 

There's a lot of fusion food in Thailand and in places like Hawaii. They're a lot more interesting and better in my opinion.

 

27 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

"Since you don't see any spirit houses around you, so how would a Thai know that there are spirits in their new home abroad, and that they would behave like Thai house spirits?"

 

We lived in Korea, Taiwan, Okinawa, Panama.......according to my wife, all of the houses had spirits.  Nothing frightening......but there were times when she'd leave some food/incense out for them.  

Here in Thailand we have 3 rai of land....no spirit house.  I asked why.  She said there were no bad spirits in our area, so no need for one.  That said, she makes regular offerings of a coconut, incense, some snacks, and 3 cigarettes to keep the good spirits appeased.

I haven't seen cigarettes placed as offerings before.

 

But maybe that's because I didn't pay close attention.

 

For expats who have lived in Thailand for some time:

 

Thai food gets repetitive.

But then Western food also tastes much blander after you've been exposed to a lot of Thai food.

There's no way you can eat only either type of food for eternity.

 

So I make cool fusion food at home. Some of my friends do too.

 

- Oatmeal is tastier as tom yum oatmeal. Yum yum!

- Khao man gai + feta cheese and potatoes!

- Baked potatoes with Thai chili sauce

- Most Thai rice dishes go well with baked beans in tomato sauce

- KFC is tastier with boiled rice

 

and more.

 

What are some of your favorite homemade fusion dishes?

 

On 4/23/2022 at 8:11 PM, kokesaat said:

My Thai wife and I lived in Texas for 14 years before moving here.  When we put our house on the market, our realtor told us it'd probably be a few months before we'd sell (back in 1996).  A few days after we put the for sale sign out, an elderly mother/daughter looked and made an offer.  My wife says she put sticky rice on all the fence posts around the yard as an offering to the spirits for a quick sale.  Who can argue with that?

That makes me wonder, how often do Thais set up spirit houses or at least make offerings to house spirits when they are overseas in non-animist countries?

 

Because, typically in corporate America, houses are strictly viewed as objects that people profit off of, not as spirit dwellings. Previous home owners most likely did not believe in spirits, so you wouldn't have to maintain any spirit paraphernalia that was left behind.

 

Since you don't see any spirit houses around you, so how would a Thai know that there are spirits in their new home abroad, and that they would behave like Thai house spirits?

 

14 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

In addition, do your best to seek out women who are educated.  This is the best place to start when seeking any sort of relationship.

 

You said that you prefer farm girls, but now also educated? The two are not mutually exclusive, but it's not always easy to find them in this combination.

 

Or do you mean educated from the School of Life (School of Hard Knocks)?

 

I'm surprised that there aren't more complaints on here about home countries.

 

The expats I've met tend to complain about their home countries as being completely dysfunctional nanny states.

 

Thais are in complete disbelief when I tell them about the level of dysfunction that we have in many Western countries, particularly the US.

 

It can be therapeutic to list the many ways in which Thailand is better than your home country, and to complain about the West. So here are some horrific things in the West that you don't have to worry about in Thailand.

 

 

1. Handsome young guy playing a guitar to a random woman in a Western country? Cops called (video link below). Is this even possible in Thailand?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMd3tAVmyFk

 

2. In the West, men are paranoid of getting sued for sexual harassment at the workplace. Asking out a woman for dinner can be seen as grounds for termination, and your entire career is then ruined for good. But Thais think that the workplace is where guys get their mia nois and people sleep around.

 

3. In the West, you can't change the color of your front door, or else the municipal authorities will say that you are "ruining the character of the neighborhood" and will force you to make your house look exactly like everyone else's McMansion. Fines, unpleasant phone calls, angry neighbors, and way more. But in Thailand, unique and weird houses are always just around the corner.

 

4. In the West, you can get sued into bankruptcy if someone trips on a rock in front of your house. Unimaginable in Thailand.

 

5. In some Western countries, especially the US, people call the cops all the time for the most trivial reasons. Baby crying, dog barking, black guy walking down the street? Cops called.

 

6. Don't forget about how it's so much harder to find food in the suburbs of the US, Canada, or Australia. Street vending is illegal, so everyone is forced to drive to a big boring supermarket to buy food. If you try to sell lemonade in front of your house, you'll get the cops called on you. What if Auntie Noi decides to sell Som Tam around the corner to feed those hungry residents in the cul-de-sac? Big beefy cops with their Ford Crown Victorias will arrive in no time to make sure that she never does this again in her lifetime.

 

7. Insane cost of living. Taxes and more taxes in the West. But tax in Thailand? No stress, easy-peasy.

 

8. Gangstas, graffiti, violent people everywhere in the West. You don't have to worry about street gangs spraying graffiti all over your neighborhood in Thailand as gun battles rage on. On average, people are so much better behaved in Thailand.

 

 

Too many pointless stickler rules in the West!

 

But in Thailand, you are free and happy.

People generally don't want trouble and will try to find compromises to situations. Krengjai rules here, rather than Western paranoia, rules, and lawsuits.

 

Hope I made you all feel better!

 

I have a friend who says that he is considering dating Chinese women instead, since he thinks Thai women are too carefree. You know, all the usual complaints about them on this forum.

 

What would be your advice?

 

Chinese (and Taiwanese and Korean) vs. Thai women, in general, are like apples vs. oranges.

 

Over there in the Sinosphere, people take life very seriously.

Kids there look so much more miserable because of tiger moms.

 

It's like Latina/African vs. German/Scandinavian women. About as different as you can get.

 

5 hours ago, JimTripper said:

If the Spirits have nowhere to go of their own, they go into your house on the land and cause trouble.

Sounds like Halloween! I think the Celts and their descendants made offerings on All Souls' Days that to placate wandering spirits.

 

In Thailand, the spirits are often, but not always, from the souls of deceased people right?

 

1 minute ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Why do I share so many personal details about my wife?

Because, maybe global warming has helped me to put things in perspective.

 

I am still looking for a photo of my wife.

I have one photo saved on Google Drive.....somewhere.

 

My wife was more beautiful, even, than Wang Mengyun.

My wife's family surname was Wang, too.

And, my wife's hair was even more plentiful than that of Wang Mengyun.

 

 

My wife seemed not normal, too.

 

She never ate bats, my wife.

 

My wife ate a normal diet, and she was tall, about 178 cm.

 

She was well proportioned, and not as fine-boned as some Thai women.

 

She was a stunner.  She was a beauty!

 

Of course, some women are just too crazy to live with, and there inevitably comes a time when you gotta call it quits.

 

Either your wife begins eating bats, or maybe something else takes over, something you just cannot handle.

 

This is what happened to me.

 

She was a stunner.  She was super smart.  And, she suffered slightly from schizophrenia.

 

I would rather live with a woman who ate bats than live with psychosis.

 

 

I've heard of Chinese princess syndrome. It's pretty hard to deal with.

 

How has your experience with women in Thailand fared in comparison?

 

I agree that it's not universal with 100% of all Thais, but a significant proportion of the population certainly has this type of obsession over Som Tam.

There are many forum members here with Thai wives who have this kind of Som Tam obsession.

 

Isan wives in Germany and Sweden have photos of Som Tam all over their Facebook profiles.

They make Som Tam mukbang videos and keep posting and tweeting about how they like Som Tam.

It seems like for at least half of their waking hours, Som Tam is in their minds.

 

I watched a documentary about Thai berry pickers in Scandinavia, and they were, uh, making Som Tam.

 

Westerners like to talk about delicious Thai curries, but for many Thais, it's all about Som Tam.

 

We know that Thais like Som Tam. It's a national obsession and addiction.

 

But the obsession is taken to an extreme level that I cannot understand.

 

Someone please explain to me the extreme obsession over it.

 

Why is that they obsess over Som Tam as the main dish, and every other food item is meant to complement Som Tam, which is the star and main focus of the meal?

It's often the primary dish in what they consider to be a proper meal, and almost the only thing that they want to eat for the entire meal, with sticky rice and grilled pork on sticks seemingly as auxiliaries.

 

Koreans like Kimchi. But Kimchi is a small side dish that goes along with other main courses. Koreans don't have an extreme obsession over Kimchi as the only thing they want to eat.

Germans like Sauerkraut. But Sauerkraut is eaten in nice little portions that go along with meat and potatoes. But have you ever seen Germans with extreme Sauerkraut addictions gorging only on that, as if there's no tomorrow?

Americans like Pickles. But of course, you'd just put a few pickles to give your hamburger a nice little extra sour taste. But do you see Americans salivating over entire jars of pickles?

Burmese like Laphet (tea salad). But that's a nice little dish that goes alongside samosa and tea. But I've never seen extreme laphet obsession in Myanmar.

 

In almost all other cultures, sour, pickled, spicy fermented vegetables are nice little side dishes or condiments.

 

But none of these guys would eat almost ONLY Kimchi, Sauerkraut, or Pickles and get tiny little packets of sticky rice to complement their sour stinky veggies. It's almost always the opposite, where the spicy, sour, stinky veggies have to complement main dishes.

 

But that's not it.

 

Mention "Som Tam" to a Thai and they look like they're about to go crazy. They look like their eyes are about to pop out and that they want it NOW.

They will scream "Hiw!" whenever they see photos and videos of Som Tam, spot some by a roadside stall, or smell some being pounded nearby.

Som Tam obsession videos are all over YouTube and Facebook. Thais watch them all day long, and oh boy, their mouths really do water!

Forget about boring khao man gai or khao kha moo. Som Tam, Som Tam! Aroi aroi, saep saep, get it now, now!

 

You don't see Koreans salivating over Kimchi like crazy when you mention it to them. They will salivate like that over BBQ pork instead.

Neither do the Germans or Americans.

 

Oh and that's not it either.

 

And it's not the Som Tam that we eat at Thai restaurants in the West, which Thais say is "jeut" (flavorless) and "mai aroi" (not delicious).

 

The Som Tam that they like must be extremely sour, salty, and stinky in order to be authentic.

Som tam must be slathered in extremely large amounts of super salty and stinky fish sauce, along with as many chilis as they can possibly get their hands on. Sour, salty, and stinky are the three overwhelming flavors that must be in any proper Thai Som Tam.

Even if you can eat super spicy Tom Yum or Basil Chicken Rice, none of that can prepare for the extreme spiciness and sourness of a proper Thai Som Tam.

 

It's pungent, painful, overwhelming even to culturally adaptable foreigners who grew up eating spicy food and have tried to train themselves to eat Som Tam for years. Nasal mucus flows non-stop, and those extreme flavors sting their nerves everywhere causing intense buzzing sensations and their faces to turn red. Stomachs and intestines begin to immediately churn, and the Som Tam eater has to wash it down with large amounts of water or else they'd feel like they're about to explode due to all that nervous system overload from Som Tam-induced masochism.

 

 

I can eat Som Tam. I like Som Tam.

But, I tend to eat it when I want to use it as kind of a laxative medication to cure indisgestion and constipation blues due to too much steak or pizza.

I can eat it as a nice little side dish along with lots of other kinds of foods, but not as the main dish where it's basically a kind of sour fish sauce soup with over a dozen chilis mashed into all that brown sludge.

 

 

Som Tam is what they look forward to at the end of the day.

Som Tam is what makes them euphoric and happy again if they're having a bad day.

Som Tam stalls everywhere make their neighborhoods exciting and terrific.

Som Tam is the #1 thing that they want to eat now.

Som Tam is the meaning of life.

 

 

Seriously, what is up with Som Tam?

 

 

28 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Hey Man!,

 

All that I am telling you is that diet, alone, is NOT ENOUGH to account for such high variance in body height of northern Europeans. These guys are really tall.  Why?  This is NOT just due to a different diet or different environmental conditions for their ancestors.  Now Way.

 

No.

 

There MUST be an important genetic difference involved which leads to this 11 cm average height increase.  For sure.

 

For example...

 

"In a paper published in Nature, the researchers show that northern Europeans seem to have a stronger genetic link to a particularly tall nomadic population from the Eurasian steppe who came to Europe around 4,500 years ago. Because of these genes, northern Europeans are still tall compared to others on the continent.

 

Southern Europeans became shorter as they turned to farming, as genes connected to reduced height were passed down through the generations. These shorter genes were inherited from Neolithic and Chalcolithic populations on from the Iberian peninsula, though it’s not clear why this happened in the south but not the north."

 

...

 

There is a reason northern Europeans are so much taller than Americans.

And, this has very little to do with diet.

 

 

And can you tell us why Thais and Southeast Asians - even the middle-class ones who are well nourished - are shorter in height, much more so than most Chinese and Koreans? It's a pretty big height difference, usually a head taller or more, like at least 10-15 cm. That's the first thing you notice when they are next to Thais, rather than facial features or skin color.

 

Walk around Seoul, Taipei, Shanghai, or Beijing and you'll notice that you would perfectly blend in with the other men if you're 180-185 cm, but in Thailand you'll look grossly oversized. During the summer, Taipei and Hong Kong have almost exactly the same weather as Thailand, so you can't say it's 100% due to the climate either.

 

And it's certainly not down to nutrition or economics, because Thailand's food security had historically been better than China's, especially during the mid and late 1900s.

Their diets aren't too different either. Fried rice, tofu, noodles, chicken, pork, fish, and all that typical stuff, all in satiating quantities.

 

And South Sudan, one of the world's poorest countries, has some of the world's tallest people.

 

 

For hard stats, check this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_human_height_by_country

 

Average measured (not self-reported) height in South Korea is the same as the average male height in Ukraine and Scotland at around 175 cm, which is a lot taller than Japan too.

Ignore the Thai stats in there because they were self-reported by university students in Sukhothai, which is not measured or representative of most of the country.

 

 

Secular changes and predictors of adult height for 86 105 male and female members of the Thai Cohort Study born between 1940 and 1990

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230828/

 

Average (mean) Thai female height: 155-160 cm range

Average (mean) Thai male height: 165-170 cm range

 

That means the median height would be shorter.

 

According to the National Organization of Short Statured Adults, you would qualify as short and disadvantaged if you're a 170 cm tall male or a 157.5 cm female. That would certainly seem outlandish to Thais, since that would include most of their population, and Thai society doesn't obsess over height that much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_of_Short_Statured_Adults

 

 

But in China, that's pretty short. There is actually rampant height discrimination in China, but apparently not in Thailand. This film called Short and Male, made in 2008, shows how job posts have requirements for men to be at least 170, 175, or even 180 cm. Ouch, good luck with that in Thailand, because 70-90% of all Somchais in Thailand would automatically be disqualified.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqXK6IY5gPg

 

In the full documentary, a Chinese law school graduate who is 165 cm (and definitely like a perfectly regular-sized Thai in terms of stature and physique) is visibly quite angry about not getting hired because he is too short, and then launches a lawsuit and campaign against height discrimination in China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEgQiqL8TCk

 

Chinese women now also often say that they are looking only for:

6 Feet [height], 6 Inches [down under], 6 Figures [salary] (666 rule)

That's pretty common nowadays for Chinese men, but in Thailand? Refer to:

 

Change in Mean Height of Thai Military Recruits From 1972 Through 2006

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3924109/

 

The histogram on the right side shows that less than 10% of Thai military recruits in 2006 (the very well-fed 7-Eleven generation) are taller than 181.3 cm, whereas that's definitely not the case with Thailand's northern neighbors.

 

I'm not saying that being taller is better. It's just that in some places, genetics would help make sure that you're not oversized, or else you'd be maladapted to certain environments.

 

Plus, in Thailand, you'd probably crack your skull open walking around markets and rural houses built for people no more than 170-175 cm tall.

 

Then in Indonesia, people are even smaller than Thais, but that's another topic for another time.

 

Long post, but in summary:

I've made the case that Thais are indeed relatively short even when the conditions are optimal.

Now the question is, what has historically led to short stature as an adaptation?

 

This might be better discussed at one of those anthropology forums, so maybe we can move this topic there instead.

 

 

5 hours ago, LaosLover said:

3 useful concepts of animism:  1) objects acquire power over time 2) objects can woo spirits and then eventually belong to spirits. 3) the spirits are alway a little unreliable, so they need a little help.

 

That's why your souvenir lingham is on a high shelf and why (1) people add little figures to their house over time (to increase the power of the spirit house) (2) items should not be touched (interrupts the power accumulation) (3) they eventually drink the red Fanta (prosperity color) and eat the food when the spirits fail to show up and do so.

 

That explains why all those "science nerd" questions about spirits sound completely irrelevant and downright weird to people who believe in animism.

 

The spirits aren't quantifiable, to be measured and classified according to the scientific method.

It's more Freudian and Jungian, rather than Darwinian or Newtonian.

 

8 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

Typical farang Q: Where do the spirits come from? How are spirits born, and do they procreate? Did they exist since eternity or did they spawn within the past 100 years? Would it be theoretically possible to identify each and every individual spirit with a baht pratchachon (ID card), or do they flash in and out of existence so often that it wouldn't be possible?

Typical Thai A: Looks stumped for a few seconds and then says, "Yes, in Thailand we believe in many kinds of spirits. Like tree spirits and house spirits. They just exist in there. Sometimes you dream about them too. If we are good to them, they help us."

 

That leaves the farang thinking, "Well yes, I know that, but I was looking for a very exact scientific description of what a spirit is really like."

 

I'm 100% sure that it's not a language barrier issue.

 

They simply have trouble understanding our deductive kind of thinking, because the animism here simply isn't a dogmatic Abrahamic religion.

 

Excellent insights LaosLover. Enjoyed reading your replies.

 

Did you do a lot of research on religious traditions in Southeast Asia? It seems like you know a lot.

 

Taxi drivers in Bangkok are either a hit or miss.

 

2/3 are super nice, and 1/3 are rambunctious.

 

Here's what you do:

Look for an older, or more mellow-looking taxi driver.

Go by gut feeling.

 

Also don't act like you're the boss and respect him, speak more softly and respectfully.

Thai-style respect goes a long way.

 

It's all perspective.

 

Some East Africans here told me that Thais have short, wide limbs and look stockier.

 

But then, East Africans tend to look like sticks. Take look at typical people in Ethiopia and you'll see why.