Sunmaster

This is a complicated metaphysical question. All the ancient wisdom traditions speak of a universal consciousness, the ground of all Being, All-That-Is, also known as "God"....which is eternal, outside of time and space, always present, that which always IS, that which needs no creator and is the creator of all. How did they come to this conclusion? Our consciousness is not a fixed thing. It can be shifted and expanded. There are many different approaches on how to achieve this (I have some experience with some of them). Those who dedicate their lives to this goal (or some who are very "lucky" = blessed) can go very far into expanding their consciousness. So far so, that their individual consciousness (self) merges with the universal consciousness (SELF), thus literally becoming ONE with it. Often it's a temporary state (peak experience or awakening), occasionally it's irreversible (enlightenment). They are called wise men, sages, saints, Buddhas if they share their wisdom....or they can be your next door neighbor if they prefer to keep it to themselves. Ramana Maharshi answered a question from a visitor. "How should we treat others?" "There are no others" What he meant was that ultimately, when the individual self becomes one with the SELF, it realizes that the SELF is all there is....there are no others (or anything) beyond the SELF. It's a matter of perspective. My drawing... Matter (the body) is the vehicle consciousness (not conscience) uses to play the grand game of creation. The way I understand it, is that everything is infused with consciousness, from the tiniest of particles to the the vastness of the universe. If you're interested in the subject, I suggest looking up the info online. It's out there and has been for a very long time.

Einstein did not attempt at answering the big questions in life, he tried to solve the puzzle of the physical. He only went as far as acknowledging that a hidden power/consciousness was at work but that was it. After all he was primarily a scientist and talking about such things would not have been good for his reputation. In any case, your question whether chemicals produce experiences, or experiences produce chemicals is an interesting one. I think both are true. We all know how even coffee, nicotine or sugar can change our mood, let alone how more powerful substances like psilocybin or LSD can expand our consciousness. In such cases, a substance/chemical is introduced into our system and the system becomes malleable, frees itself from its rigid structure and thus opens itself to a different/wider range of inputs. The same can be achieved through meditation though. In that case, it's the practice of the meditator that affects the chemical balance of the body. Both body and consciousness constantly interact with and are influenced by each other. They don't exist in closed systems. I think that's a great attitude. Keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to accept every wacky idea presented to you. In fact, forget what anyone tells you about life (their interpretation of it). You don't have to be "convinced" by others at all. No one has to, nor should be. True knowledge comes when we let go of ideas, of structure, of the house of cards we've built during our life, of all the books, religions and whatnot. When you talk about nature, I can feel the love you have for it. It resonates with my own feelings when I'm alone on a mountain for example. That love is true inspiration. It makes you be closer to the Divine than anything else. Perhaps you're already a saint and you don't know it. ????

I have some difficulties understanding this paragraph... So you're saying that people jump on 'alternative' belief systems (ie spiritual ones), because they have a limited understanding of science? ???? Seriously? Have you meditated long term? Fasted? Taken any mind expanding substance? It all comes down to what your deepest questions are in life. If they regard the best way to make an engine efficient, science has the answers. If they regard your place in the universe, would you still ask a scientist? Can you get any clear answers about who you are from science? I'm not talking about the physical body. Of course, if you believe that's all you are, then that last question will not even arise. But some of us believe we are more than just flesh and bones, and we want to know how we fit into this grand play of life. Science will never ever be able to answer those questions, simply because it doesn't even recognize that part of our existence as real. Fasting then, entheogenic plants and above all meditation are great tools, tested over millennia, for exploring that part of us that is being ignored by mainstream science (scientific consciousness research is still in its infancy). So, to turn your statement around...My impression is that those people who have little to no understanding of their inner world, and no desire to remedy that shallowness, easily jump on scientific pseudo-explanations of how life works, conveniently leaving out the deep questions about the meaning of it all. After all, if scientists don't bother with this mumbo jumbo, why should you? Right? ????

Excellent paragraph and post!

One day we'll ALL find out how wrong we were. Some more than others.

Wow, I cannot express in words how diametrically opposite this belief system is from mine. I honestly and genuinely feel sorry for you if you feel so weak and so disconnected from your true Self. What a sad existence that must be....

One thing I've learned is to be skeptical of anyone professing "truth" or knowledge of "God" based on a book, whatever that book may be. For me, the only valid measuring staff is the ability to embody compassion. This ability doesn't come from intellectual knowledge, but from how we experience and integrate life's events in our belief system. It goes beyond any dogmatic belief system. A compassionate person can be of any religion, 'non-religious but spiritual' or be atheist. It doesn't matter. A compassionate atheist trumps any scripture thumping extremist who's ready to condemn you to eternal hell for not accepting their truth. The signs of a compassionate person are quite easy to spot, if you know what to look for. True knowledge of God is knowledge of oneself. This knowledge comes from personal experience (is highly subjective) and no other knowledge, be it academic or religious can make up for it. Nor can any objective truth-seeking tool (aka science) make sense of it. You can read 1000s of books or quote hundreds of passages of your favourite holy scripture. It may make you feel good, but if that knowledge is not based on direct experience, it's worthless. Harsh but true. As for creating your reality....I do believe we are, as I believe in the power of thoughts and repeated thoughts produce our belief systems. However, from personal experience, I can't say it's quite as clear-cut. For example, for years my wife and I have been trying to have a child. No matter how I tried to visualize and manifest this reality, it didn't work. I don't know... I do trust that the universe knows best and accept the challenges as they come...I'm not complaining. If the universe serves you lemons, all you can do is make a nice lemonade. Maybe @Tippaporn can shed a light on this.

Same here. They come sometimes, bang on the bible for a while, then leave again. Be patient

The fact that you take this silly meme to prove your point, says more about you than anything else. LoL

Lies...Enemies...war...fight....purgatory...hell... Personally, I don't like that mindset/vocabulary. The only "enemy" I can conceive of is my own limitation in the pursuit of truth.

Do you know why the fingers of God and Adam don't touch each other on the famous Michaelangelo artwork on the roof of the Sistine Chapel of the Apostolic Palace in Vatican City? In the work, God's finger is stretched to the max, but Adam's finger is with the last phalanges contracted. The meaning is to explain that God (Spirit, All-There-Is, etc...) is always there, but the decision is of man. If man wants to touch God he will need to stretch out his finger, but by not stretching out the finger, he can spend his whole life without seeking Him. "The final contraction phalanx of Adam's finger represents free will." As long as you are content with the status quo of your present condition and don't seek this part of yourself, then it will stay hidden from you. But as soon as you make the conscious decision of wanting to know more, it will reveal itself in a million different ways. This is what TBL and others mean when they say they have overwhelming proof of the existence of {God}. It's not an objective, scientific proof but a subjective one. If you expect scientific proof to believe, it means you expect God to break free will. It doesn't work that way. It is you who have to stretch out that finger first. Once you realize that your trusted sources of knowledge are not able to provide the answers to the most intimate of your questions (Who am I? What is the purpose of my life?), you will start to seek new and previously untapped sources. That will be your first step, the first movement of that finger towards God.

Don't confuse religious dogma with the essence. They are 2 very different things.

Jeez, I leave you guys alone for a few days and when I come back you're all up in arms. ???? Time to take a step back, open that nice bottle of wine, play with your cat, go for a walk in nature....and come back on Monday all fresh and kumbaya. ;-)

Yes, I see it the same way. Change comes from an internal need when we're unsatisfied with the status quo. It can't be imposed from the outside...that would in fact make us even more reluctant to change. Even when we see people suffering due to "wrong thinking" (for example, having thoughts of unworthiness leading to depression), all we can do is to plant some seeds and hope they will fall on fertile ground. When the time is right, hopefully they will grow...or maybe they won't. The best seeds in my opinion are not lectures that have to be understood logically on an intellectual level, but lived examples. So, for the example mentioned before, leading by example would mean to show the real life manifestation of the "right thinking" (the belief that we deserve to be loved and have love to give). This would ignite the desire for change and spurn curiosity on how to do it. Hopefully. Telling a depressed person "Hey, your way of thinking is wrong. Just replace it with this and you will feel better." simply doesn't work. Now, I took a rather extreme case of "wrong thinking", but there are a lot more subtle ones that ought to be rectified....we all have them.

To be fair, I always found @Hummin's posts to be open-minded, respectful towards other beliefs and with a healthy dose of skepticism. And that's already a lot more than many other occasional posters were able to do. You can't expect for people to change their beliefs from one moment to another, regardless if you think you presented your reasoning in a flawlessly logical manner or not. I think people progress at their own pace and even if sometimes it's frustrating to witness, it's not our duty to force such changes.

There's so much value in your last posts, one could forget about the almost 500 previous pages and just focus on this last one. Practical, logical, real world application....no religious or scientific dogma....simple. Well done. ????

If only there were some ideas....but alas, hollow pots make the loudest noise... You described yourself absolutely perfectly. Well done. Now I better follow the other's advice and leave you be.

No, I judge the worth of your posts by the level of politeness, insight and thought provoking ideas. Unfortunately, they lack in all departments.

You have been disrespectful from the very first post here. No wonder people don't care to engage with any of your "deep and inspired" posts. Either step up or step out, methinks.

????

Interesting. I think we already are materialistic egoists (and have been for quite some time) because humanity as a whole is slowly coming out of its "wild teenage years" and is taking its first steps into adulthood. Still a long way to go and very far from having reached the top of evolution.

Is "bias" a code word for "BS"?

That was not my intention at all. I didn't say "Hey look, I was right about the Big Bang, therefore I'm right about everything else." There are things I know, things I don't know yet, and things I will never know. Just like everyone else. The only thing I wanted to highlight is that today's scientific theories, which the vast majority of scientific laypeople take for granted and defend to the bitter end as if their lives depended on it, are not facts set in stone at all and can change at any time with new discoveries. That's why it would be wise to remember that what we believe to be true today, might not be true tomorrow, which in turn would make us a bit more humble and open to other explanations/beliefs. It's always good to question one's most deep seated beliefs. That applies to everyone.

The thing is that this theory has been proclaimed as the ultimate truth by oh so many on this thread as late as a couple of weeks ago, and whoever dared to raise any doubts or God forbid, offer an alternative theory, has been flat out declared insane. Now, how many other unshakable truths are built on similar shaky grounds?