Sunmaster

5 hours ago, fusion58 said:

LOL.

 

What other kind of evidence (besides that which “exists in physical terms”) is there?

 

“Hey fellas: there’s a purple unicorn in the next room! BTW, I have no evidence that *exists in physical terms* so you’ll just have to take my word for it.”

 

Also “because my evidence *doesn’t exist in physical terms,* that means I have no burden of proof.”

 

It’s a bizarre alternate intellectual reality you inhabit.

He tried to explain it to you in 5 different ways and you still don't get it. Or don't want to get it. Or pretend not to get it. On the contrary, you like to parade this lack of understanding as if it were a matter of great pride. 😄

Hopefully you'll be blessed with more understanding in the next life. Good luck 😉

38 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Show me some proof you fantasy character exists now.

....or else! 

😅😂😂😂

2 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Wanting to know what? What responsibility? You can´t show me any proof. Just say like it is. I can show you proof of evolution through times.

What do you want me to do? Read a fiction story and believe it?

I honestly don't care one way or another. Do what makes you happy as long as it makes you happy. Fine by me. 

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I've got faith in you. 

And cheers to Tippa, whose fingers must be burning hot from all the furious typing right now.

9 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I don't see how that question debunks the theory of evolution in any way.

 

'Consciousness' is a very broad term. The simplest definition is 'awareness', that is, 'the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings'. According to this definition, it seems reasonable to assume that all forms of life, including plants, must be conscious to some degree and in some way.

 

However, because there are numerous types, levels and degrees of consciousness, one has to clearly define what type and level of consciousness one is referring to when examining consciousness from a scientific perspective.
A unique quality of human consciousness is our higher capacity for abstract thought, which allows us to develop complex languages and make distinctions between numerous 'forms', and label them, using language.

 

Form is created by 'human consciousness', because 'form' is a word created by humans. Every idea, concept, thought, word, scientific theory, non-scientific theory such as a creator God and all the other Gods throughout human history, are creations from human consciousness.

 

However, the issue that's most relevant to any life-form, including microbes and bacteria, is the accuracy of its 'conscious creations' and its ability to adapt to a changing environment, and avoid accidents and mistakes, for the purpose of survival and reproduction.

 

All life is in a constant competition for survival and reproduction. There are no exceptions that I'm aware of. If you know of any, please enlighten me.

 

A Buddhist monk might be stting peacefully in a temple or cave, pleased that he avoids all activities that can kill life, such as digging the soil whicn can kill worms and insects.
Yet he is probably not aware that within his own body there's a constant battle between competing microbes and bacteria and the human immune system.

 

The number of 'killings' each day within just one human body is astronomical; far too numerous to count.

I second Tippa. You're one of my favourite fellow posters. Cheers

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

Another major contradiction between Vedanta and Seth's material is one which I heard in another of the Swami's videos.  He used the same whiteboard with the greater self, or the One, on the left side with a line drawn separating all else.  He then claimed that everything existing on the right side of the line was not real and not eternal.  Thet's 180 degrees from what Seth is saying.

 

Here I let my friend Bard answer for me. It's a clear and concise answer to how Advaita Vedanta sees reality.

The question of whether anything other than Brahman is real in Advaita Vedanta is a subtle one, and the answer depends on perspective and level of understanding. Here are some key points to consider:

Brahman as the Only Reality: At the ultimate level of reality, Advaita Vedanta asserts that only Brahman exists. Brahman is pure consciousness, infinite, unborn, and unchanging. It represents the absolute state of oneness, devoid of duality or separation. ("ALLTHEREIS" ... -sunmaster)

Maya and the Illusory World: The apparent world of diversity and change, including individual beings and objects, is understood as "maya," an illusion or superimposition on Brahman. Maya itself is not real in the same way Brahman is, but it has a relative reality, meaning it appears real on its own level within the context of the illusion. (underlining, -sun)

Levels of Reality: Advaita Vedanta often uses the concept of "levels of reality" to explain the relationship between Brahman and maya. Brahman is the absolute reality, while maya is the empirical or relative reality. Both levels exist, but Brahman is primary and unchanging, while maya is secondary and impermanent. (what I said about physical and mental fulfillment, -sun)

The Analogy of a Dream: Think of an ordinary dream. While you're dreaming, the dream world seems real, with objects, people, and experiences. However, upon waking, you know the dream was an illusion. Similarly, Advaita Vedanta compares the empirical world to a dream, with Brahman being the waking state.

Realness in Appearance: While Advaita Vedanta argues that the world is ultimately unreal, it doesn't deny its apparent reality for everyday life. (-sun) We interact with the world, experience emotions, and form relationships. These experiences have practical validity and significance within the context of maya.

Self-Realization as the Key: The goal of Advaita Vedanta is to achieve self-realization, a state of awareness where one transcends the illusion of maya and realizes their true identity as Brahman. This isn't about negating the world, but seeing it within the context of a higher reality. (What I said about enjoying physical and mental fulfillment, -sun)

Interpretation and Debate: Within Advaita Vedanta itself, there are different interpretations of how to understand the relative reality of maya. Some schools emphasize its unreality, while others acknowledge its practical significance.

In conclusion, the statement that "anything other than Brahman is not real" in Advaita Vedanta is true at the absolute level of reality. However, the world has a relative reality within the context of maya, and the two levels coexist while being ultimately different. Understanding this concept requires a shift in perspective and can be challenging at first.

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

That's what puzzles me.  There are huge contradiction which I see.  How is it that you don't see them?  Seth's material on the ego is one such contradiction.  Yes, there are similarities.  But nowhere does Seth ever denigrate the ego.  And why relegate the ego to a lesser portion of the self?  Some parts of your greater identity are better than others?  Some, such as the ego, being kicked to the curb?  A useful tool, when it works?  Else it's only a hindrance?  That's a huge contradiction between what Seth claims and what Vedanta seems to claim.  Total opposite view points in major respects

Seth too says the ego is a tool, at least I remember reading so. What is the ego if not the tip of an iceberg? The ego focuses the attention on the outer world. In order to do that, the attention on the inner world has to be lessened. In that sense it becomes a hindrance if you want to direct your full focus on the inner world. It's like driving your car forward. You can't expect to go backwards at the same time. One direction excludes the other. You can't have both.

If you choose to go forward and refine the ego to be an efficient and beneficial tool, you can start using all 4 gears and go very fast. That's great. If you choose to go in reverse however, you need to stop first. Even the most efficient ego has to stop to allow you to go in reverse. Or else say goodbye to your gearbox. 😁

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

All else emerges . . . for what reason, though?  For what purpose?  I've asked you before, why is Sunmaster in this world?  For what?  Where does Vedanta talk about creativity?  What of reincarnational selves?  If one reincarnational self attains connection with the One then what of those living the other reincarnational existences?  Given that time is simultaneous and all exists at once then how does that work?  Are the rest of the reincarnational selves liberated as well by default?  What of probable selves?  Trace selves?  Counterpart selves?  Now creativity would explain that.

I honestly don't know what would happen to other reincarnational selves, probable selves, counterpart selves, imaginary selves, transcendental selves and whatnot. Does knowing this bring me one inch closer to knowing who I am? Sure, it's interesting, but does it make me meditate deeper? I doubt it. 

Maybe that's why you can't find that information in Vedanta. Vedanta is the most practical philosophy or spiritual teaching I ever came across. It cuts through all that intellectual self-pleasuring to ask a simple question over and over again. Who am I?

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

Lasting peace, happiness, security implies a final destination.  There is no final destination to anything.  That statement also implies an end to growth.  Beyond which lies eternal repetition and true death.  That is antithetical to All That Is and Seth explains how that works and why in granular detail in "Unknown Reality Vol. 1."

I think you misunderstand the meaning of those concepts. Who grows? You the body-mind called Tippa. If Tippa were to merge with AllThereIs, becoming one with it, who is there to grow? If there were anything left to grow, it would mean that AllThereIs isn't in fact AllThereIs. 

Seth talks about individuals, entities and Oversoul. What is there beyond the Oversoul? AllThereIs, right? What is there beyond AllThereIs? Nothing. Where is the growth then? Buried in its final destination?

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

There needs to be a blending of science (intellect) and spirituality (intuition and emotions).  Since I see science as arising as a counter to religion (not in total, of course) then for science to incorporate spirituality would be seen as a return to religious precepts.  It ain't gonna happen anytime soon.  This thread is evidence of that in spades.

 

Yes. This is a typical pre-trans fallacy. In Spiral Dynamics religion (Blue) predates science, while spirituality (Yellow and beyond) transcends (and includes) science. From one at Orange (science), the 2 are indistinguishable. It will happen sooner or later, of that I'm certain.

On 1/25/2024 at 10:12 AM, Tippaporn said:

Nowhere that I've seen yet is there any discussion of how specific experience is created.  I do not see any talk of ideas or beliefs; what they are, what their function is, and certainly not what their effects are.  Who is creating personal suffering?  Who creates personal fulfillment, or lack of fulfillment?  Is fulfillment in physical life something which is not attainable?  Or only in the spiritual world once we become one with the One?  Are we not spirits now, in this life, merely clothed in flesh, blood and bones?

What kind of fulfillment are you looking for? Physical fulfillment? Sex, food, alcohol....? How long does that fulfillment last? There's the expectation of fulfillment and then there is the experience of getting what you crave. Then the pleasure vanishes and the  search starts anew.

Are you looking for intellectual fulfillment? How do you get that? From reading books, having deep conversations with a friend? How long is that going to last? As long as you have a book and a friend. What if you don't have them? No fulfillment. 

Are you looking for a fulfillment that is not dependent on anything external? Well then, there is only one source that will never let you down. It's always there, at any time, wherever you are, it's there.

If you (I mean in general) are content with the first 2 options, well, go for it...until you'll get tired of being a slave to those needs.

Once you realise that the only lasting fulfillment comes from within, you are no longer chained to other needs. You can still make awesome love, eat a delicious steak, drink a great wine, have an awesome conversations. But the pleasure you get from all of those pales compared to the deep fulfillment of knowing who you are.

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I've got faith in you. 

Faith is for losers. Hard evidence is what is needed!

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

@Sunmaster

 

What, no reply?  I know you have thoughts about what I wrote. 

 

 

Some good stuff in there but also a lot of distortions. It's going to take a while to pick through all that. 😁

On 1/23/2024 at 5:21 AM, save the frogs said:

And you know what?

Not one of you tossers has mentioned The Flying Spaghetti Monster and Pastafarianism yet, 700 pages into this.

Shame on you.

 

A lot of tossers have mentioned this several times. We didn't mention it because 1) we aren't tossers and 2) because it's a childish argument that appeals to childish minds.

6 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

And that was the proof? 

Not my job to provide you with any proof of anything. You are a conscious being (I think), so you have all the tools to find truth all on your own. 

Either do that or take responsibility for not wanting to know. As simple as that.

30 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

That´s what a person says when he/she can´t find any facts to contest a statement. Just like suspected, and as the majority of religious people, you simply avoided everything by pointing on ignorance. What ignorance? Why would I be and ignorant person just because I do not believe in ghost, fairytales and made up characters? Proof my man. Proof? Where is it?

What's with all those questions? I thought you prefer not knowing, because that's what ignorance is.

On 1/22/2024 at 9:54 AM, Gottfrid said:

Maybe the subject better suited for the other thread, as it has to do with God. As this is not a forum that focus on religious matters, then my opinion is that we only need one fictional thread. But, on the other hand, if you can show me supported evidence of the existence of God, that erases 100 of millions years of documented nature and human development..........Because right now, the numbers just don´t add up.

You seem quite content in your ignorance, so who am I to change that. Enjoy, coz if ignorance is bliss, you must be the living  Buddha. 😄

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The military had ( ? have ) a policy of banning any discussion of politics and religion when I joined up. IMO it's a good rule when talking to friends as well, as both are liable to make enemies of friends.

That's reasonable, but I wasn't talking about either subject. I was talking about science and consciousness. 

3 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Genesis 19:30-38 (NIV):

"30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.'

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.' 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today."

 

One of my favorite parts of the bible.  That and killing innocent kittens in the global flood.  A great read.

So you like incest. Not something I would advertise on an open forum (or anywhere elsewhere for that matter) , but OK...

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I assume you meant Sugar has not killed me yet. It may not kill you. I hasn't killed me despite keeping the sugar industry in profit most of my life, but it lost my mother's leg and eventually killed her, it makes billions diabetic and fat and gives them bad teeth and heart defects.

 

While I love sugar in all it's myriad forms, we'd all be healthier if it didn't exist.

I love sweets...now I live in a bakery. 😍

A couple of amazing cake creations, and the 2 little ones I made at a workshop here.

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You married a fellow artist? 

 

I have indeed. 😍

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'll be the final judge on cake since being a German it is my automatic and God-given birthright.    Just goes to show that Harari is full of sh!t on human rights. 

 

Which one is she making?  I'd go for the cheese cake, but with raisins, made with authentic Quark from unpasteurized milk.  I kid you not, my mother would smuggle it into the U.S., going so far as to pay bribes to customs agents if need be.  Though I would be willing to die for some Streuselkuchen.  And if I've gotta die for it then it better be no less than 1 meter in diameter.  If your wife needs more recipes I can get her my mother's complete recipe book on cakes.  10,000 baht for a copy.  I know you can afford it.  Need recipes for cookies and pastries, too? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, having Italian blood in me, that makes me even more suited to judge food than any German. 😂

The competition is not about the delicious cakes you posted, but artistic cakes made with fondant, sugar paste. They create figures and scenes and such stuff.

I'll post some pics later.

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'll address this to you as well, @Red Phoenix.

 

What I think about Swami Sarvapriyananda doesn't really matter.  If I tell you what I disagree with and why then you would only filter that information through your current beliefs and reject all that does not fit.  You would then only defend what your beliefs are.  We've been through this with the ego and so any analysis of mine of the Swami will only be same.  You've accepted your path and are adamant that that is the path you will follow.  Who am I to dissuade you with contrary information?

 

Just an anecdote from my life which I had eventually come to recognise.

 

My parents had their beliefs which they impressed upon their children.  There was one in particular which threw me for a loop for a long, long time.  Germans are a polite people very much like Thais.  My parents stressed being considerate of others.  To the point where we had to consider others in deference to ourselves.  At least that's how I interpreted my parent's lesson to us.  And my interpretation was how I then proceeded to interact with people.

 

What that deference meant to me was that I had to consider the beliefs of others as valid over my own.  Well, as you can well imagine that worked very poorly for me.  And it would work poorly for anyone else, I would add.  But there was a benefit there for me.  A silver lining in a dark cloud.  For this process of considering others over myself meant that I would suspend my own beliefs and adopt the beliefs of another.  I would not only see the world through their eyes, through their beliefs, but also would identify with their beliefs as if they were my own.  Now since I had my own beliefs about things, as I must, then this was extremely confusing for me.  Since I was able to so strongly identify with the beliefs of others and, very importantly, accept their validity, their "truth," then that created the serious dilemma within me because it fostered immense doubt within myself about my own beliefs.  I would think to myself often that perhaps my beliefs were just plain wrong.

 

To this day, as I listen to the beliefs others express which are different from mine, it still fosters doubt within me about the truth and validity of my own beliefs.  But, fortunately for me, I have recognised this dynamic and these days I have little issue with separating the beliefs of others from my own.  That came through a lot of work though.  A lot of work as it forced me to question the validity of each and every belief I held that conflicted with the belief of another and to then determine for myself which was "truth" and which was truth.  Whilst in this process, though, I would experience confusion as to what was true and what was false.  And that would be quite unsettling.  Now that is a huge understatement.  Sometimes it was even scary to think that what I believed, especially if I had maintained a particular belief for quite a length of time, may not be true at all.  The idea was terrifying when I would consider that perhaps I might have been living a lie, or fooling myself.

 

I'll toss in some Seth here.  As he has explained, everyone has what he calls a world view.  His definition of it is the totality of beliefs one holds at any given time.  World views, however, are not permanent, or stagnant, for beliefs constantly change to one extent or another.  World views are therefore dynamic.  Another important aspect of a world view is that it is not merely ones dry, philosophical stance on everything about life, a world view which is without effect.  To the contrary.  A world view is highly practical because it literally defines ones modus operandi in life.  It is upon that which one chooses ones actions.  For action is an idea in motion and one acts only according to the ideas which make up their beliefs.  A major upheaval in beliefs would, in practical terms, throw one into a state of confusion as to how then act, or respond to situations which had previously been handled automatically.

 

You choose your parents, it is true, for your parents fit in with your intentions.  And, of course, yours with theirs.  My intention in this life is to understand who and what I am and the reality I find myself in.  And so my parents assisted me in acquiring the skill of being able to suspend my beliefs, the "truth" of them, whilst I consider other ideas, other beliefs, and whether or not they have any real truth.

 

You, Sunmaster, have accepted your beliefs as true, no different than anyone else.  And so I'm telling you that in order to consider the validity of the Seth material you would necessarily have to temporarily suspend all of your current beliefs which you consider true whilst you adopt the ideas of Seth as true.  To pretend for awhile that they are indeed true.  Temporarily only whilst you try their truths on for size.  Not permanently, mind you.  Whether you decide to make them permanent or not is for you to decide by comparing and contrasting to see which is true for you.  This process is, as has been described, the ideal method in which we are to play with ideas as children play with building blocks.  And that play is supposed to be fun.  Unfortunately, rather than a process of play it is approached with deadly seriousness.

 

Now, if you attempt to understand the Seth material whilst bringing your current beliefs along with you then you will do nothing other than sift through the material and toss out anything which does not fit your current beliefs.  Your beliefs will act practically as a filter.  And those ideas of Seth which do agree with your current beliefs will be accepted and then give the appearance that Seth's ideas and your current ideas are indeed one and the same.  I tell you, though, that overall they are not.  There are radical differences between the two.  As I've said often, you will no doubt find similarities between the Seth material and all religions.  Do not, though, ignore the differences or pretend they do not exist.  For those difference are meant to be entertained and questioned if one is truly interested in moving beyond their beliefs in order to divine true reality.

 

I'm opting out of providing my views to everyone because I understand, perhaps more fully than I ever have, that everyone has there own ideas and their own paths which they have, with great intention, embarked upon.  Overhauling ones beliefs to a great extent is not for everyone.  That would be biting off more than most are willing to chew.  Or able to chew given their level of understanding.  Adopting any of the information I provide leads to a major overhaul.  I can't legitimately and honestly expect that from anyone.  You create your own reality.  That is simply too much for folks to accept for too many reasons.  Yet there's no right nor wrong about it.

 

In the immortal words of Abraham, "life is not a horserace."  We are not on a sprint to see how quickly we can attain "enlightenment," or "heaven," or a state of "bliss," or a true understanding of ourselves and our reality.  That true understanding will come about naturally in due course and at ones own pace.  In this lifetime or another.  In this probability or another.

 

We've been given the gift of the Gods; to create.  In that sense we are Gods.  No matter what reality our consciousness travels to we will still be creating our experience there.  There is no reality in which experience is set for you, or predetermined for you, or chosen for you.  There is no reality which exists apart from you.  The basis of all realities is individual freedom.  Freedom is inherent within our being.  That will eternally be the case for Sunmaster and for every other consciousness, be it man, animal, stone or star.  Challenge is implied in creation.  Challenge is growth.  To become something, to experience oneself as other than what one knows oneself to be now.  And so you will eternally create and never be without challenge.  And every challenge then implies "problems" to be overcome.  Hence there is no state of existence where you are without challenges for that would indeed be a state where growth reaches a final destination.  At that point you can only endlessly repeat yourself.  And that is true death, which does not exist.

 

Just so that it is clearly understood, the Seth material is not given to solve anyone's problems.  It is not given as "a way of life."  It is not given as a philosophy.  It is not given as a religion.  It is given to return oneself to ones own natural and inherent power to create ones experience, wherever and whatever that may be.

 

My purpose is not to solve your problems for you, but to put you in touch with your own power. My purpose is not to come between you and your own freedom by giving you "answers," even to the most tragic of problems. My purpose is to reinforce your own strength, for ultimately the magic of your being is well equipped to help you find fulfillment, understanding, exuberance, and peace.

 

Anyway, I do not intend to break off communication with either of you.  I enjoy our conversations immensely and so wish to continue.  Both of you are up for challenges in this regard.  Both of you are willing to test out different ideas other than your own.  It has been my experience that folks exhibiting that willingness are far and few between.  And without that willingness then any engagement becomes little more than hopping on an endless merry-go-round, and one which is no fun at all.  I'll take it private then.

 

Whilst all religions teach that people are basically powerless science leaves no doubt.  Science teaches that people have no power at all.  I reject any idea which suggests that people are powerless.  Or any idea which suggests that people do not create their lives, their experiences, down to the last insignificant detail.

Going for the length record here? 😄

I understand what you're saying. Everyone filters out information that they are able to process at their current level of understanding. That's why we can read the same book 10, 20 years apart and discover new concepts. They were already there, but we had a blind spot for them.

Of course you know that this means that there are probably blind spots for the material we use as source of information right now. Would you agree?

Most people see spirituality as an opposite of science. For them it's an either-or situation. Yet, for someone with a wider perspective, it becomes clear that they are not at odds, simply because spirituality includes the material world along with science. Science is a small circle within the bigger circle of spirituality. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other.

So, while reading your last post and others before them, I often pictured Seth's material and Vedanta in the same way. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other, maybe intersecting each other a little. I see Seth as a circle within the circle of Vedanta. Seth simply focuses more on the material existence and how to create reality in a way that is most beneficial to you. Vedanta goes a step further and talks about non-duality, from which all else emerges, including the material existence, the ego, life itself.

But like you say, the ultimate intention here is to bring you closer and strengthen your link to your true nature. To make you see who or what you really are.

Turns out that's the ultimate goal of Vedanta too. 😊

So, maybe that's why I can't see any contradictions between the 2. If these 2 intentions are aligned and work in a practicalway, then the rest are just details.

Ps: As usual, I edited some parts.

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Whenever you decide to get your lazy ar$e outta bed your coffee and pastries will be waiting for you, Sunmaster.  Let your wife sleep for a change. 

 

Cheers!

I've got my breakfast waiting for me in the hotel. Will be in Korat until Sunday to support my wife who is participating in a cake competition. 

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

It's coincidental that I had very much wanted to address the rest of your post from my perspective rather immediately, RP, but didn't.  But, of course, there is no such thing as coincidence.  There is such a thing as timing, though.  There was something else which I needed to understand in order to respond to your most excellent, insightful post, RP.  Which I again thank you for. 

 

So let me explain about this timing . . .

 

@Sunmaster's Why does God >insert your grievance here<....? thread was revitalised for a short time.  fusion58 had replied to one of my posts so I engaged him.  We had a number of lengthy exchanges revolving around the usual "everything that exists must show evidence of itself in physical, quantifiable, sensory terms or else it doesn't exist" claim, which idea has it's foundation in the tenets of science and is widely accepted, especially in the west where science dominates as the curator of "truth."  As is the typical outcome of so many of these discussions my "opponent" eventually exited the conversation.

 

save the frogs chimed in after my last unanswered post to fusion58 to complain about my attempt to "take over" the conversation, as I had three posts in a row (as did fusion58 but since he aligned with save the frogs then that was okay  ), and chided me over my " verbosity" (as did fusion58 but again since he aligned with save the frogs then that was okay  ).  I couldn't help but notice the contradiction between his reply, which clearly showed his irritation with me, and few of his recent replies to me in which he said:

 

go for it. i don't want to interfere with whatever you need to be sharing.

 

There's a lot of misinfo out there. So yeah, put your ideas out there. 

Not sure if a forum like this is the best place.

Why not write a book? 

Or does anybody read books anymore?

 

And:

 

No, I shouldn't be discouraging you.

Keep sharing your ideas.

 

Next, Sunmaster posted a video entitled "Who Am I? | Vakya Vritti - Part 3" by Swami Sarvapriyananda.  I watched a good portion of the video and portions of another select few of his videos.

 

VincentRJ would pop in now and again and I quoted him a few times but received no reply to any of those posts.

 

I've noticed, too, and maybe you guys have as well, that as Sunmaster and I were having some lengthy, very in depth exchanges there was almost a complete absence of other posters.

 

Now I also post in another forum on a wide array of topics under the umbrella of current world affairs.  The divisions between people are basically split in two and couldn't be much more black and white.

 

So, as I consider the above I've come back to RP's wonderful words:

 

And so when choosing which Path (if any) to follow on your individual journey towards Truth, it is only natural that you will be attracted to that religion / teaching which is most aligned with you current level of consciousness.  For Tippa that's Seth, for Sunmaster it are the Hindu yogi's, sages and masters.  For me it's Gurdjieff and the Sufi sages.

Let me be clear > Imo there is no wrong or right Path, but it is the path that helps you on your journey which is the right one for you. And the closer you get to the Truth (or actual Reality as Tippa would say), the more you will recognize and appreciate the unspoken same undercurrent in all of these spiritual approaches.

 

Now I've known the truth of this for a long, long time.  It's given in Seth's material.  It has been pointed out by Abraham.  Yet throughout my spiritual journey I've always maintained the notion that what I know, which is based in both intellectual, intuitive and emotional understanding, could be understood by others. Despite having read don Juan telling Carlos that you can't take anyone with you.  Perhaps I thought he might be in error.    But now I know with certainty he is not.  For in one of my replies to fusion58 I wrote this myself:

 

That was a stark, in-your-face lesson of the power of belief, a huge lesson which many still fail to recognise.  It showed with magnificent clarity that even though something is utterly false it can be held as true as long as it is believed to be true.  And once held as "true" nothing, and I mean nothing - facts, logic, evidence, what have you - had enough power to  challenge the great power of belief.  There is, however, one thing that can overcome the immense strength of the power of belief . . . the individual holding the belief as "true" begins to question the belief's validity.  That mere questioning can destroy the most powerful of beliefs.  Unfortunately, most never, ever dare question what they believe to be "true."

 

And so I've decided to shortly leave others to themselves.

 

. . . you have to be opportunistic on your journey and opt for that which helps you further.

 

So it is with everyone.  There is no one who does not question deeply about the subject matter we talk about.  And in the wise words of Abraham, "everyone is right were they're supposed to be."

 

My only reservation for exiting all forums prior to the understanding which has been hammered home by RP and my recent realisations is this:  Though what I offer seems to me to be of no help to others I've found the engagement to be helpful to me.  And now I wonder if I need the engagement any longer.

 

There is one concept I'd like to leave folks with, though it's lengthy and, sorry Sunmaster, it's quoted from the Seth material.  So I'll post that separately.  This information fits perfectly with RP's perceptive material which I quoted here.  At least for me. 

 

What did you think about Swami Sarvapriyananda?